WG and WoWs needs to make changes!

[Kiwi1960]

I have been considering this post for weeks now, but because of my Terminal Lung Cancer not reacting well to stress, I have been putting this off and off... but now is the time or I'll never do it. ITS A LONG POST, KUDOS TO YOU IF YOU READ IT ALL!

 

Firstly, they say they read all comments, but I'm not sure I really believe that, so, I'm going to notify an admin ...like so: @MrConway

 

This is NOT an attack on WoWs, its also NOT open season on myself or my opinions... be adult, if you disagree, say so, if you are angry, then agree to disagree and find a topic you do like. It is, however open for discussion. I will not reply to any personal attacks or abuse but I will report them. I do know that this is a very touchy subject for some, and I am at a loss to explain why... its only a game... the ships are NOT real and no REAL politics are involved, we are ALL gamers and we ALL have a stake in this game, even the game devs. So, if you cannot debate nicely... then don't debate at all... I do not need the stress of a major fight because I dared to voice an opinion, and I do know some work as a team to yell down others and they (apparently) use Skype to co0rdinate their attacks. As a (current, for 7 more days) I am a paying customer.

 

But even if I wasn't, even if I was playing as a free to play gamer, so what? Free to play gamers have a stake in this game too and should be allowed to express an opinion without being made to feel guilty for not paying... its not ONLY those not wanting to pay that do not pay, some cannot pay...but their opinions still matter.... and so what if my stats are hidden, I hide them because I don't play on the EU server any more, but also, I don't want these children saying they are a better player than I am because they fought more battles or have more kills or... ITS ONLY A GAME, right, being a better player doesn't make you a better person.... I could care LESS if your stats are better than mine, and that is why they are hidden... to remove temptation from losers who think they are better because their stats are better.

 

See... even now I'm getting upset because of previous posts like this from others always devolves into war of opinions based on no other reason that some think they are better than others.... NO ONE is better than anyone else. Some whom I have had to slap down then went around marking my posts with an ANGRY face... but do I care? NO! I know that these people wouldn't last 5 minutes on a real warship, for obvious reasons, and they would be shipped out ASAP.

 

NOW I CAN START! With a few basic statements I know, or hope, to be true. Some may be unfair, BUT, I shall get to them.

 

WoWs owns the game!
They own the forums!

They do NOT own the community!

They treat the customers with contempt!

They treat the customers as a source of income, nothing more!

 

WoWs owns the game, but if its a game no one wants to play, then they are in trouble. They know that to be true, have you taken part in their survey where they ask you what video games you play?

WoWs owns the forums, THEY ASK FOR OPINIONS and BUG reports.... them, seemingly... ignores them! They hardly EVER reply back once they start a war.....**
..............** The Pay-To Rico apology from Sub_Octavian ... it was ill advised and arrogant... and disrespected the player base AND disabled people (of which I am one)

..............But then, once posted.... they ignored the thread...  like they always do... so when I insulted Sub_Octavian, I got a two week ban.... rightly... BUT...
..............When Sub_Octavian insults disabled people like me, there is NO punishment for him...

There is a point here....

 

WoWs has made this a THEM and US community. They TELL us what is going to happen, if they thuink we will take it, and we don't, they issue a lame apology and THAT is the end of it, but NOT if you read the forums, The wounds fester and mutate and ANY event, like the New British Heavy Cruisers threads havce comments about the Pay-To Rico event... hell, even my Pay-To Rico comment is proof NOTHING was sorted out.... but they ignore that, they THINK it will die down, but at what cost?

 

Rather than having players post opinions about how angry they are, they also allow these.... others.... to defend WoWs... and no warnings are issued... Why does WoWs allows NON WOWS people to defend them.... since WHEN was it EVER acceptable for a company to allow attacks on its customers by other customers for whatever reason? SURE, everyone can have an opinion, but then, what has my stats being private to do with the complaint I had? Why did he want to use it against me? WHAT DID IT HAVE TO DO WITH MY COMPLAINT TO WoWs??????? What did THEY have to do with my complaint to WoWs?

 

So, they treat us with contempt by seemingly getting other players to attack us for having a valid complaint! Players are seen as a wallet.... nothing more.

 

The whole Pay-To Rico even was badly handled... so their cash grab might have netted them a few million.... but those that walked away from the game will cost them more over time.

 

For every dissatisfied customer.... who tells of his experience to others.... means 10 will never bother playing....

 

I'm betting these survey with all the questions not related to this game is proof that they are trying to find way to keep us here... those that are left. I'd go so far as say they are hurting.

 

THE FIX

 

WoWs has to EARN our respect, they can start by RESPECTING us, the customers. NO MORE LAME EXCUSES FROM STAFF... no more bogus Pay-To Rico scams, treat US with respect and we will respect you, and if we resepct you, then we may be inclined to support the game by opening our wallets more. In fact, we would play more.

 

Earl_Grey or whatever his name is WAS an employee, he was .... removed.... for trolling the community. GOOD, Don't stop there, no one else needs to lose their jobs, but those involved in the Pay-TO Rico event need to say sorry and mean it... and an apoogy for disabled people at the same time.

 

WoWs needs to promise the community they will always do their best to act honestly and above board in future. WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER!!!!

Wows provides the game, WE provide the finances to keep it going. It is a mutually beneficial understanding, the community will not disrespect WoWs and WoWs will not disrespect us. By making it a THEM and US situation, WarGaming.Net is heading down the road E.A. and Bethesda (among others) took... total CONTEMPT for customers and GREED were their downfall.

 

We can all see the signs happening here... not again... my wallet is closed till I have concrete assurances form WoWs about recent happenings here. NOT this CONSTANT infuriating behaviour of IGNORING US!

 

Not this BALONEY about "we read all posts".... because its probably in one eye and out the other.

 

The moderators, admins and devs and staff SHOULD talk to people... tell us you heard what we said, tell us you have passed on our concerns... NOT THIS CONSTANT INFURIATING SILENCE!

I repeat: We are all in this together... you are here to serve US... the customers... start acting like it. If I went into McDonald's and asked for a Big Mac, but with twelve patties.... and I was ignored.... and I read on the wall that they DO take note of all that is said... so I wait and wait and wait.... I have to assume it was a lie and I leave.... THAT is the point I am at now.

 

So, I will post ship advice here, clan advice and help out THE COMMUNITY  as much as I can with all that I have learnt since 21/7/15 when I started playing this game.... but my wallet stays closed.... and I may play once a week... just to remind myself why I stopped playing.... and lastly.... they take NOTE of all we say.... right..... for how many years have we been asking for new maps... new game modes? All we get is UPDATED maps.... new  lighting features... a few new ranked games, clam modes and Halloween modes... but just not what we want... right?

 

Start listening WoWs.... and REPLY to those you NEVER reply to. You cannot survive without us, keep that in mind... SURE.... a few people paid for the Pay-To Rico.... but even they have limits.... as soon as they figure out the Pay-To Rico is nothing special, how many would fall for it again? Half? One one-hundredth? NONE?

 

Thanks for reading.

 

And I really hope I don't get any warnings for posting this... I did it because I used to really LOVE this game....

 

 

[veslingr]

TL/DR - but no for sure

for your health, i suggest you try some other game that will bring you more joy......

the need for this long post shows you are not having fun

 

P.S.

when you say customers...do you include guys who have this wonderful game and did not spend a single cent in it..are they also "customers? or maybe they are consumers of free stuff?

[Egoleter]

Nice to see that I am not alone with my grievances.

I made a thread about Wargamings communication standards on the german forum in regards to recent events and in general in 2019. I'll link your post to it as well.

 

My thread was promptly moved to offtopic. Let's see how well yours will be going.

[Speedymaus80]

Good word, truly spoken :)

 

*thumps up*

[Redcap375]

35 minutes ago, Kiwi1960 said:

Good stuff

 

Alas, they wont change.

 

Nothing you say, i say or anyone says will ever change their ways.

 

The wheel will keep turning and the money with keep churning out. And who is turning that wheel? Us the players..

 

Funny old world. 

 

Imagine if not one single person brought the PR? You would not believe how much of a shockwave that would have been to WG.  But instead, we the players (many of you) have simply encouraged it. 

 

Again, funny old world when the players are actually the problem. 

[IamNeXus__BTW]

Really good Word!!

 

i hope WG dosn't ignore this like the posts in the german forums...

 

*thumps up"

[Uglesett]

To be honest, I think part of the problem is that the game is fairly mature and should have "settled" by now. The game is fairly alright in terms of content and mechanics. There isn't really a need to produce as much content or make as many changes as they are doing. They're not really prioritizing making the game more accessible and growing the playing population, so all they really need to do then is keep the existing player base occupied. 

 

I suspect part of the problem is that they still have the full-size team of a game in early development, while the game itself doesn't really require that kind of development effort any more. Which means that they end up having more work available than the game really needs.

 

I'm not saying they should fire people, but WoWS has probably reached the stage where other developers would have started to shift the majority of the development resources over to their next title, while keeping a smaller team to keep a steady trickle of content going for the older game.

[Kenjiro_]

And people here still think Pay2rico was a fiasco for WG and they are sad about it. As we saw there was many people to pay 35-55k for PR and there will be many people to pay 65k for British CA. 

 

As a business WG only cares about numbers and numbers justify their actions. 

 

Forum and reddit forms less then 1% of playerbase. We should understand that and accept WG doesn't really give a crap about what is going on around here. 

 

We should focus more on the positives rather than trying to swim against the current. 

[genosse]

I think you are right with your assessment, that we are just cash cows for WG, but I think that's just capitalism, to be honest, and not them specifically.

Disregarding every human being as a two-legged cash dispenser is the nature of the beast, as much as I hate it.

 

Every company depends on the customers to buy their products, but a car manufacturer, for example, will not shower you with gifts and sweet words, just because you happen to drive one of their cars and they want you to buy the next model (unless they operate in the luxury segment).

 

It's an eat or die world - if you happen to be dissatisfied with something, you probably won't buy it, but as long as someone else does, the manufacturer couldn't care less about your opinion or your choice.

 

Only when the sales take a nose dive in general, a company might take note of the reasons why people refuse to buy their product, and make adjustments specifically for that.

 

Do I like that? Not at all. I just don't think that WG is here to serve us, like you wrote. WG is here to produce and maintain games as a service, to make money and to keep their staff paid and employed. If they feel, they need to serve their customers anything more that the game itself to achieve these goals, they will probably do it - if not, they probably won't. If they think it's most beneficial for them to extract as much money as they can out of their customers, before discontinuing the game entirely in a few years, then that's how it is.

 

I am also not happy with that, and I would really like WG to change the direction they are currently heading, but in the end, and as long as the finances are in order, they are probably fine with:

"Sorry if you don't like it, but you can leave whenever you want. It's your decision."

 

If you want to have some real influence, you have to buy shares, not the product.

 

Edit: That's why, at least here in Europe, we have some laws against the worst forms of capitalist exploitation. If those did not exist, we would probably still be treated like less than dirt and had to send our kids into the coal mines for 14 hour shifts and minimum pay. As I said, that's the nature of the beast, unfortunately. Humans are still as greedy as ever, only some circumstances have changed in the last 100 or so years. Even firms that are known for their excellent customer service only do this, because they think it increases their income. No company that has to turn a profit is just nice for niceness' sake.

[Captain_Mackerel]

40 minutes ago, Egoleter said:

Nice to see that I am not alone with my grievances.

I made a thread about Wargamings communication standards on the german forum in regards to recent events and in general in 2019. I'll link your post to it as well.

 

My thread was promptly moved to offtopic. Let's see how well yours will be going.

Maybe if we were on the RU server they might listen to us, we are not so they won't, that is the only server that matters to WG, don't believe me, why are all  Russian ships supposed;y OP,  and say for instance British ships, (possibly baring the thunderer) weak?)

[Captain_Newman]

- CV's make the game unfun for everyone not playing a CV. Removing stealth flies in the face of the game's spotting and armor angling mechanics, which combined with maps that give various configurations of islands providing cover from spotting, normally allows for interesting flanking tactics. Not so when CV's are around, then it just becomes a massive derp fast where the outcome largely depends on which team got the better CV and who got more 40-something %-ers that yolo, camp edges, or give everyone broadside. Limit CV's to one per side. Make DD's harder to spot. Remove rocket planes. Do something. Fix it. 

 

- Smolensk is insane. You can't have that much dpm on a platform that only gets overpenned most of the time. If something has dpm that high coupled with smoke, it should pay for it by being extremely fragile. Fix it.

 

- Russian bias is getting silly. Yes, people complained about Kremlin being OP. Nobody in their right mind ever thought it was because of the health of it's AA mounts. A good CV player can slingshot, anyway, so it's a completely irrelevant change. Bringing one down is still a seasonal project. Fix it.

 

- DD's are in a bad spot. Playing them in high tiers effectively is several orders of magnitude more work than other classes. With CV's in almost every game, it can be downright miserable. This is without proposing silly modules aimed at making torp dodging easier for potato bb's with zero awareness. Stop catering to the lowest common denominator and, you guessed it.. fix it.

 

- Low tier gameplay is infested by CV sealclubbers that chase away new players with their statpadding. You created this problem when you buffed t4 CV's, Hosho in particular, to silly levels to artificially inflate low tier CV population. Presumably, not retaining new players is contrary to your interests? Fix it.

 

- Stop saying dc issues that people from certain countries started having with the christmas patch aren't widespread and are on our ends. We all have the same symptoms: ship becomes uncontrollable, ping goes to -35, we then dc, and for half a min to several min the game and all wg related websites remain unavailable while the rest of the internet works just fine. Something happened when the christmas patch hit. Fix it.

 

- Your monetization practices are universally despised by everyone not directly under your employ. After the PR event, your relationship with the player base has been severely fractured. Selling lootboxes to minors, helping them develop unhealthy gambling habits, is not exactly giving you the image of someone with ethical business practices, either. And no, replacing lootboxes with rng bundles that you still have to buy doesn't fool anyone. You may be looking at your profits and still think you're fine, but make no mistake, the erosion of the player base's trust in you is well under way. You might not notice a hit in profits yet, but when it happens you will likely be past the point of no return. I for one think this would be a shame, so .. fix it.

 

 

[ClappingLollies]

32 minutes ago, Kenjiro_ said:

And people here still think Pay2rico was a fiasco for WG and they are sad about it. As we saw there was many people to pay 35-55k for PR and there will be many people to pay 65k for British CA. 

 

As a business WG only cares about numbers and numbers justify their actions. 

I am 100% sure WG views the PR event as a success. Sadly. Seing all these PR's ingame tells me that they made loads on it. Shame that players support crap like that event. 

[Captain_Mackerel]

5 minutes ago, Captain_Newman said:

- CV's make the game unfun for everyone not playing a CV. Removing stealth flies in the face of the game's spotting and armor angling mechanics, which combined with maps that give various configurations of islands providing cover from spotting, normally allows for interesting flanking tactics. Not so when CV's are around, then it just becomes a massive derp fast where the outcome largely depends on which team got the better CV and who got more 40-something %-ers that yolo, camp edges, or give everyone broadside. Limit CV's to one per side. Make DD's harder to spot. Remove rocket planes. Do something. Fix it. 

 

- Smolensk is insane. You can't have that much dpm on a platform that only gets overpenned most of the time. If something has dpm that high coupled with smoke, it should pay for it by being extremely fragile. Fix it.

 

- Russian bias is getting silly. Yes, people complained about Kremlin being OP. Nobody in their right mind ever thought it was because of the health of it's AA mounts. A good CV player can slingshot, anyway, so it's a completely irrelevant change. Bringing one down is still a seasonal project. Fix it.

 

- DD's are in a bad spot. Playing them in high tiers effectively is several orders of magnitude more work than other classes. With CV's in almost every game, it can be downright miserable. This is without proposing silly modules aimed at making torp dodging easier for potato bb's with zero awareness. Stop catering to the lowest common denominator and, you guessed it.. fix it.

 

- Low tier gameplay is infested by CV sealclubbers that chase away new players with their statpadding. You created this problem when you buffed t4 CV's, Hosho in particular, to silly levels to artificially inflate low tier CV population. Presumably, not retaining new players is contrary to your interests? Fix it.

 

- Stop saying dc issues that people from certain countries started having with the christmas patch aren't widespread and are on our ends. We all have the same symptoms: ship becomes uncontrollable, ping goes to -35, we then dc, and for half a min to several min the game and all wg related websites remain unavailable while the rest of the internet works just fine. Something happened when the christmas patch hit. Fix it.

 

- Your monetization practices are universally despised by everyone not directly under your employ. After the PR event, your relationship with the player base has been severely fractured. Selling lootboxes to minors, helping them develop unhealthy gambling habits, is not exactly giving you the image of someone with ethical business practices, either. And no, replacing lootboxes with rng bundles that you still have to buy doesn't fool anyone. You may be looking at your profits and still think you're fine, but make no mistake, the erosion of the player base's trust in you is well under way. You might not notice a hit in profits yet, but when it happens you will likely be past the point of no return. I for one think this would be a shame, so .. fix it.

 

 

Ha ha, playing the indomitable is a challenge and a half, hardly fun, I speak with the voice of my alt, which maybe a bit squeaky, lol

[Captain_Newman]

Just now, Inappropriate_noob said:

Ha ha, playing the indomitable is a challenge and a half, hardly fun, I speak with the voice of my alt, which maybe a bit squeaky, lol

 

Of course, there are stronger and weaker CV's. It doesn't change the fact they are still bad for the game.

[Egoleter]

17 minutes ago, Inappropriate_noob said:

Maybe if we were on the RU server they might listen to us, we are not so they won't, that is the only server that matters to WG, don't believe me, why are all  Russian ships supposed;y OP,  and say for instance British ships, (possibly baring the thunderer) weak?)

The RU forum population was just as much up in arms as we were about the PR and many other things. Their opinion doesn't have any more weight then ours.

Please stop pretending like it was different.

[Captain_Mackerel]

1 minute ago, Egoleter said:

The RU forum population was just as much up in arms as we were about the PR and many other things. Their opinion doesn't have any more weight then ours.

Please stop pretending like it was different.

Not pretending anything, if I ever saw evidence that the EU forums had any influence at all then I may change my mind, as for the RU thing, RU company, does it for the RU playerbase, look at the WoT' game they weregoing to nerf th eObject 430U, RU playerbase went ape, they left it alone, hard to think otherwise, when not even CC's it seems are not listened to.

[Egoleter]

9 minutes ago, Inappropriate_noob said:

Not pretending anything, if I ever saw evidence that the EU forums had any influence at all then I may change my mind, as for the RU thing, RU company, does it for the RU playerbase, look at the WoT' game they weregoing to nerf th eObject 430U, RU playerbase went ape, they left it alone, hard to think otherwise, when not even CC's it seems are not listened to.

So far I have seen no evidence that this applies to WoWs.

We also had a case of nerfing a ship and the community went bananas over it. The Gulio Ceasare. Guess what WG did?

 

Unless you can provide actual evidence that the RU WoWs forum has more influence then we do, it remains a made up statement. Which by the way is you creating the same unhealthy US versus THEM problem the OP talks about.

[Ten_ichigo]

1 hour ago, Kiwi1960 said:

Start listening WoWs.... and REPLY to those you NEVER reply to. You cannot survive without us, keep that in mind... SURE.... a few people paid for the Pay-To Rico.... but even they have limits.... as soon as they figure out the Pay-To Rico is nothing special, how many would fall for it again? Half? One one-hundredth? NONE?

 

I do understand your frustration and you're comments have the best intentions. The question is: what is the solution? Take for example the submarines: some like it, some don't want it, to which people are you going to listen? It doens't matter which side WG chooses, they will always disappoint people. The best option for WG is to go for the subs, because it creates new content and new revenues.

 

Not every change is an improvement and i think there will be a complete other kind of event next Christmas, due to all the complaints about the PR (although it will be Always grinding and paying to get a premium ship). But what else could WG do? Quit the event halfway? then everyone who has spent doubloons or time in grinding the PR was upset. Choices are not always easy.      

[Kiwi1960]

18 minutes ago, Egoleter said:

The RU forum population was just as much up in arms as we were about the PR and many other things. Their opinion doesn't have any more weight then ours.

Please stop pretending like it was different.

I don't think that was his point, I think the same and its not my point either.

 

Russians are at times seen as Aliens because ... probably... years of communism and a years of having to make do makes them tougher.... the Russians I have met are nice enough, but I think they are even worse, for example, at being stubborn like us Dutchmen are. They think differently... they may agree about the event but you'd not know it....

[Kiwi1960]

9 minutes ago, Egoleter said:

So far I have seen no evidence that this applies to WoWs.

We also had a case of nerfing a ship and the community went bananas over it. The Gulio Ceasare. Guess what WG did?

 

Unless you can provide actual evidence that the RU WoWs forum has anymore influence then we do, it remains a made up statement. Which by the way is you creating the same US versus THEM problem the OP talks about.

Agreed, BUT.... most of the game devs DO play on the CIS server so THAT may be where the problem *appears* to come from.

[Kiwi1960]

5 minutes ago, Ten_ichigo said:

I do understand your frustration and you're comments have the best intentions. The question is: what is the solution? Take for example the submarines: some like it, some don't want it, to which people are you going to listen? It doens't matter which side WG chooses, they will always disappoint people. The best option for WG is to go for the subs, because it creates new content and new revenues.

 

Not every change is an improvement and i think there will be a complete other kind of event next Christmas, due to all the complaints about the PR (although it will be Always grinding and paying to get a premium ship). But what else could WG do? Quit the event halfway? then everyone who has spent doubloons or time in grinding the PR was upset. Choices are not always easy.      

Subs? a NEW game mode.... WITH.... WITHOUT and BOTH..... WITHOUT (make a sub game ONLY with BOT ships) so the bugs can be reported, etc but for that, WoWs will have to actually listen.

 

WITH..... a whole new game mode ... so bugs and balancing can be performed

but both, have the existing game NOT be affected by subs and or the balancing....

 

Then, once its sorted... they can add them to the game. I liked the idea of subs but then... the CV REWORK... ( rightly... the GAME REWORK) happened and now I don't care for them at all.

[genosse]

By they way, it probably didn't come across in my rather fatalist reply, but thank you for caring Kiwi!

 

Even if I sound like the pessimist far-left snowflake that I really only partially am, I am not jaded enough to think that change is impossible - I just don't care enough to actually work hard for it in this particular case.

 

But I am happy that you do, because we need people like that, and like you, I want to continue to have fun with this game. :)

[veslingr]

Can anybody explain me this cash cow part? I mean this game is free. Totaly free. Not a single euro is needed to play any mode of this game with 100% efficiency. If you did not pay a single euro you still can play any mode with top most competitive ships?

 

Where is that cash cow?

 

I would understand if they went on subscription that we can talk about some rage. But dont forget wg is giving us free full accessible game. And all the rage is about some ships that you do not need infact and its price. 

 

Did any of you enter supermarket and took free milk, bear, bread and ragged because supermarket wants to charge you paper bag for your free stuff. 

 

Spoiled spoiled community playing free game :)

[veslingr]

We have this pathetic - REMEMBER PR - cry.....did anybody said - THX WG for 10 new free RN ships? anybody? THey are not worth? Did anybody say thx for 100 others free ships? no?

pathetic

[Kiwi1960]

Thanks for all the nice replies, everyone that cares got a like from me and others... its good to see that the player base is strong.

 

Lets hope some good comes from this.