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[-G0M-]
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So, over the past 6 months my stats have been improving, everything going in the right direction. As such I thought, rather egotistically, that the I was getting better as a player. Unfortunately after the latest 6 min blowout game I had an small epiphany. I'm not getting better, the below average player is getting worse, considerably worse.

 

Now, bear with me, I run matchmakingmonitor, and a year ago, you would see maybe a couple of players at tiers8/9/10 in the low 40%'s for winrates in their ships, that's ok, for every 60% player there should be a a few 45% players. Now those numbers have changed dramatically, over the summer I started to see 5-6 players per team in the low 40%'s, then the odd one in the high 30%'s, then 3 or 4 in the 30%'s and now over Christmas players at tier8/9/10 in the high 20%'s. This lightning strike of enlightenment hit me after a 6min blow out in a FULL tier 10 game last night, as the enemy team were lining up like cattle to be slaughtered I fired up MMM. SIX players on the enemy team were in the 20%'s for their ships, half the enemy team literally had no clue what they were doing, some of them had over 100 games in those ships, they had not learnt anything. The game was fun for neither team, it became a farce when we released what was happening, as the players on my team rushed to get some damage done, we reduced the enemy to zero points in less than 6 minutes, 4 players on the team reached 1000exp, the rest basically around 700-900exp on a win, the XP on the enemy team was laughable. My division was laughing, not with glee, but with some sort of disbelief at what was happening.

 

These games are becoming more and more common, they are not the exceptions anymore.

 

This is ALL WarGaming's fault, the lack of education for the player playerbase and the simply ludicrous economy boosters, flags, camo's etc are causing this. It is simply too easy to play badly, die early and still make credits, WG are rewarding bad play, the "everyone gets a cookie" motto they seem to have adopted will kill the game.

 

As much as I hate to say this but WoT has it right (never thought I would say that) but if you fail at tier10 you lose credits, a LOT of credits, so you have to drop down to tier8 and your premiums to fund the tier10 losing addiction. Now I know WG sell credits and dubloons for real money but it does a decent job of filling those tier7/8/9 games as people are grinding credits. 

 

The flags and stupid economy camo's have got to go, otherwise the situation will get worse and we'll be left with 12vs12 co-op style games, one team yolo's or runs from the caps and game is over very fast. 

 

This is a very real concern, there are so many things that are broken and WG are fiddling whilst it burns around them.

 

Radar ships & cyclones are broken in clan battles, not the exact wording of WG but it's the TLDR version, so what do they do. they GUARANTEE cyclones and increase the range so that radar ships will be spotted first, that is unless there isn't a HUGE island blocking line of sight, only the "radar" portion of the EMP spectrum can pass through island. So the Island hugging radar cruisers will remain "safe", whilst the DD that has to go and "spot" them will have to go LoS, no choice, yes the radar cruiser will be spotted by the DD, but it is in far more danger of dieing than then cruiser. So, with radar working through islands being broken, what do WG do? They "enhance" a feature that many hate, I mean really Cyclones reducing visibility is all well and good, but when it only reduces cruisers and BB's visibility then it is another broken element. Cyclones should reduce by a % not to a flat number. But that's an aside.

 

WG are wholly responsible for the mess the game is in right now, the blown mechanics, it is safer to sail broadside to a BB inside 10km in your cruiser?!?! BB's (and now some cruisers) reversing and firing, CV interaction with DD's (always been a problem to be fair).

 

I am fast coming to the conclusion that WG are running out of ideas. Especially when we see AA nerfs to the Kremlin as if that is in the top 5 of the issues for that ship. Then you hear from, I think it was Notser, that said many Russian CC's and players believe the Kremlin to weak and it requires buffs, not as a joke, but the KREMLIN NEEDS BUFFS, then I begin to doubt WG have any idea where it is going with this game.

 

It's up to you WG, you have the power to fix all the problems, training, economy, stupidly OP paper ships, etc, my guess is though, that nothing will change, the "might spreadsheet of balanz" will dictate how things are changed, rather than actually playing the game and aslong as the wallets of the whales stay open then all is well in St Petersburg.

 

Every game was pretty much a blow out last night, it was not fun, it was not engaging, in fact it led my division to ask "what are we doing here, is there another game we should try?" 

 

TB.

 

 

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When the average player gets worse, you should get better.

It is more probable that you are approaching your limit.

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5 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

When the average player gets worse, you should get better.

It is more probable that you are approaching your limit.

 

You do realize that this isn't even remotely what the OP is about?

 

WG has already acknowledged that the economy is far too forgiving, however they're unwilling to do anything about it as players who benefit from it are now their primary target audience.

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[-TPF-]
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Col. Pete's been replaced by a Haiku bot again.... 

 

 

I would agree with the OP. I was playing Raptor Rescue last night and became increasingly appalled at the behaviour of my team mates. I don't normally look up stats (because it shows me how everyone else is better) but I did and, frankly, I was aghast. People with a PR of 0 after 30 games in a New Mexico. People with Tier X ships and an overall average damage of 4000. Most importantly, people who don't seem to understand that Operations are pretty much scripted. It wasn't fun, and I turned the game off and did something else. Happens quite a lot. There seems to be nowhere in the game to play free from bad WG decisions or players who have advanced too far, too fast. 

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its not about WG lack for education/training for new players.

Its about Matchmaking .. which should consider players winrate/Personal Rating and split them between team adequately.

 

Most of the time its Unicums VS 40%-30%  win rate players

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The Gameplay is broken and can't fixed anymore... Pay for fast grind, cause WG needs money, money...

Vor 24 Minuten, T3ddyBear sagte:

"everyone gets a cookie"

Every potato 😁

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9 hours ago, T3ddyBear said:

So, over the past 6 months my stats have been improving, everything going in the right direction. As such I thought, rather egotistically, that the I was getting better as a player. Unfortunately after the latest 6 min blowout game I had an small epiphany. I'm not getting better, the below average player is getting worse, considerably worse.

 

Now, bear with me, I run matchmakingmonitor, and a year ago, you would see maybe a couple of players at tiers8/9/10 in the low 40%'s for winrates in their ships, that's ok, for every 60% player there should be a a few 45% players. Now those numbers have changed dramatically, over the summer I started to see 5-6 players per team in the low 40%'s, then the odd one in the high 30%'s, then 3 or 4 in the 30%'s and now over Christmas players at tier8/9/10 in the high 20%'s. This lightning strike of enlightenment hit me after a 6min blow out in a FULL tier 10 game last night, as the enemy team were lining up like cattle to be slaughtered I fired up MMM. SIX players on the enemy team were in the 20%'s for their ships, half the enemy team literally had no clue what they were doing, some of them had over 100 games in those ships, they had not learnt anything. The game was fun for neither team, it became a farce when we released what was happening, as the players on my team rushed to get some damage done, we reduced the enemy to zero points in less than 6 minutes, 4 players on the team reached 1000exp, the rest basically around 700-900exp on a win, the XP on the enemy team was laughable. My division was laughing, not with glee, but with some sort of disbelief at what was happening.

 

These games are becoming more and more common, they are not the exceptions anymore.

 

This is ALL WarGaming's fault, the lack of education for the player playerbase and the simply ludicrous economy boosters, flags, camo's etc are causing this. It is simply too easy to play badly, die early and still make credits, WG are rewarding bad play, the "everyone gets a cookie" motto they seem to have adopted will kill the game.

 

As much as I hate to say this but WoT has it right (never thought I would say that) but if you fail at tier10 you lose credits, a LOT of credits, so you have to drop down to tier8 and your premiums to fund the tier10 losing addiction. Now I know WG sell credits and dubloons for real money but it does a decent job of filling those tier7/8/9 games as people are grinding credits. 

 

The flags and stupid economy camo's have got to go, otherwise the situation will get worse and we'll be left with 12vs12 co-op style games, one team yolo's or runs from the caps and game is over very fast. 

 

This is a very real concern, there are so many things that are broken and WG are fiddling whilst it burns around them.

 

Radar ships & cyclones are broken in clan battles, not the exact wording of WG but it's the TLDR version, so what do they do. they GUARANTEE cyclones and increase the range so that radar ships will be spotted first, that is unless there isn't a HUGE island blocking line of sight, only the "radar" portion of the EMP spectrum can pass through island. So the Island hugging radar cruisers will remain "safe", whilst the DD that has to go and "spot" them will have to go LoS, no choice, yes the radar cruiser will be spotted by the DD, but it is in far more danger of dieing than then cruiser. So, with radar working through islands being broken, what do WG do? They "enhance" a feature that many hate, I mean really Cyclones reducing visibility is all well and good, but when it only reduces cruisers and BB's visibility then it is another broken element. Cyclones should reduce by a % not to a flat number. But that's an aside.

 

WG are wholly responsible for the mess the game is in right now, the blown mechanics, it is safer to sail broadside to a BB inside 10km in your cruiser?!?! BB's (and now some cruisers) reversing and firing, CV interaction with DD's (always been a problem to be fair).

 

I am fast coming to the conclusion that WG are running out of ideas. Especially when we see AA nerfs to the Kremlin as if that is in the top 5 of the issues for that ship. Then you hear from, I think it was Notser, that said many Russian CC's and players believe the Kremlin to weak and it requires buffs, not as a joke, but the KREMLIN NEEDS BUFFS, then I begin to doubt WG have any idea where it is going with this game.

 

It's up to you WG, you have the power to fix all the problems, training, economy, stupidly OP paper ships, etc, my guess is though, that nothing will change, the "might spreadsheet of balanz" will dictate how things are changed, rather than actually playing the game and aslong as the wallets of the whales stay open then all is well in St Petersburg.

 

Every game was pretty much a blow out last night, it was not fun, it was not engaging, in fact it led my division to ask "what are we doing here, is there another game we should try?" 

 

TB.

 

 

I've said it for a while now, the game simply rewards failure, there is no incentive to learn and get better. You can pay your way up the tiers if skill won't guide you there, and WG are more than happy as it generates a lot of cash for them.

 

I think the other part of the issue right now, is the time gated nature of most of the events. It's driving players to play for their particular directive or mission objectives rather than playing to win. They can lose more than they win but as long as they have completed their directives they are happy.

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It is not accidental. WG has been dumbing down this game for quite a while now. The carrier rework, unifying and leveling all assets (AA ranges, radar ranges etc), these are all focused to accomodate players that have the attention span and skill level of mobile phone games, and their wallets. I'm pretty confident WG's spreadsheets are telling them dumbing down = increasing profit.

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So you run matchmakingmonitor, can't win using your own skill?

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I don't blame WG.

 

I'm on the board of a housing cooperative and every time we hand out a paper with info some of those papers end up on the floor infront of the mailboxes. A couple of weeks later when the changes we informed about starts we get swamped with people asking why they were not told about this upcomming change. These are the same people that never attends the anual meeting where we elect the board and decide other important stuff. An average share is worth around €50k but most of the members doesn't seem to care that the can lose that money AND get thrown out of their home if they don't follow the rules. Sad.

 

Why do I mention this?

 

Because it's the same thing in the game. The information is there but some players are too stupid/lazy/busy to care and that's the real problem. How do I know that the info is out there? Because I found it and so did most of the people that also found this forum.

 

I agree with you on some parts but you are generalizeing too much. We can't put all of the blame on WG. Some of it has to be on the shoulders of those bad players. There are things that can be done but I'm afraind it's too late for that. The cat is out of the bag and no change of the games economics or a new set of rules will change that.

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27 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

There seems to be nowhere in the game to play free from bad WG decisions or players who have advanced too far, too fast.

Co-op.

I haven't played randoms in ages.

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12 minutes ago, Europizza said:

It is not accidental. WG has been dumbing down this game for quite a while now. The carrier rework, simplifying all assets (AA ranges, radar ranges etc), these are all focused to accomodate players that have the attention span and skill level of mobile phone games, and their wallets. I'm pretty confident WG's spreadsheets are telling them dumbing down = increasing profit.

That Kind of attentionspan actually requires a halfway working brain, and you really wanna tell me that the average wallet warrior is able of more then "use credit Card" and "press left click"?? 

 

The average IQ of These Players is barely above that of over cooked Sprouts, pls don't make them think they have cognitive abilities that exceed those of a pot plant. 

thank you for your consideration. 

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The past 3 weeks or so has been miserable.

 

25 minutes ago, Fat_Maniac said:

I've said it for a while now, the game simply rewards failure, there is no incentive to learn and get better. You can pay your way up the tiers if skill won't guide you there, and WG are more than happy as it generates a lot of cash for them.

 

I think the other part of the issue right now, it the time gated nature of most of the events. It's driving players to play for their particular directive or mission objectives rather than playing to win. They can lose more than they win but as long as they have completed their directives they are happy.

 

Yes, I tend to believe the directives have bought the worst out of the players, focusing on the objectives rather to play decently and win the game. 'AFK' DDs are rampant, and there are just too many games when 2-3 mins in ithe game is already lost.

 

I don't care if a match is lost as long as it is balanced and enjoyable with a chance for victory, but these days such matches are rare.

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Vor 26 Minuten, iFax sagte:

So you run matchmakingmonitor, can't win using your own skill?

so how does MMM improves the chance of winning? 

How can some numbers do that?

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8 minutes ago, Hanse77SWE said:

I don't blame WG.

 

I'm on the board of a housing cooperative and every time we hand out a paper with info some of those papers end up on the floor infront of the mailboxes. A couple of weeks later when the changes we informed about starts we get swamped with people asking why they were not told about this upcomming change. These are the same people that never attends the anual meeting where we elect the board and decide other important stuff. An average share is worth around €50k but most of the members doesn't seem to care that the can lose that money AND get thrown out of their home if they don't care. Sad.

 

Why do I mention this?

 

Because it's the same thing in the game. The information is there but some players are too stupid/lazy/busy to care and that's the real problem. How do I know that the info is out there? Because I found it and so did most of the people that also found this forum.

 

I agree with you on some parts but you are generalizeing too much. We can't put all of the blame on WG. Some of it has to be on the shoulders of those bad players. There are things that can be done but I'm afraind it's too late for that. The cat is out of the bag and no change of the games economics or a new set of rules will change that.

THIS. All the resources are there. Hell, the only thing that's missing is that WG put its own tutorial videos on its official channels in the game UI (an idea that I think would be pretty awesome for brand new players who are interested at "gitting gud" but can't be arsed to go look for the resources). Do you honestly think that people will play better? A lot of people watched flamu's blind fire tutorial not too long ago (I can tell because I'm being blind-fired to crap even when I don't shoot in smoke), and they're just randomly throwing shells everywhere anyway and not hitting the target. Meanwhile I've known about this for a long time and regularly dev-strike smolensks in their smokes. Skill gaps exist, and they always will. The greater the skill gap, the more skewed the game is towards skilled players. I see absolutely no problem with this.

I was a complete and absolute turd of a potato several months ago and took the initiative to get better, and got better. Hell, you can still see ghosts of my past in my stats if you browse them. I was one of those 800 PR players that YOLO-d and died in 5-6 minutes then shrugged his shoulders and pulled the lever to give it another go.

 

Here's the thing: If someone wants to learn, they will do it. If they don't (or can't for whatever reason), they won't. You can bring a horse to water but can't force him to drink it ffs. And if you're at least decent at the game, bad players are more a source of amusement than frustration. It's goddamn randoms.

Also, keep in mind that players are a sample of humanity as a whole. You've been to school, you likely have a job. You've likely seen that a significant majority of humans have a severe limitation to attention span or otherwise have a very low threshold in what they're capable of learning (absolutely NO offense meant to them). This also includes people with physical or mental disabilities who still have a right to participate in life. In the game, they take the form of ships, so it's not like their human shortcomings are obvious.

So, bad players, in essence, are:

- People who just don't care so much about getting good at the game, and just want to spend some time shooting some ships, getting their 50k dmg, and sailing around in a beautiful vessel they've researched and purchased with credits/doubloons.

- Enthusiasts who are great intellects about history, but don't have any game sense, and just want to "revive" historical ships.

- People with disabilities who want to enjoy some downtime.

- People who would otherwise play intelligently but have some serious dunning-krueger effect that makes them think they're special and above everyone else without realizing just how bad they actually are at the game.

- Et cetera. Come up with your own reasons why someone's bad.

 

Once I realized this, I stopped resenting bad players. They're just a normal part of every strategy/action game, and have just as much a right to share a battlefield with me as any unicum. The majority of the time, if you want to win, you have to carry. If you can't draw joy from outplaying some good players in the enemy team and attempting to go for the win at all costs, this game will ultimately frustrate you. It's been that way since the beginning.

 

The only difference in this particular period is: The Puerto Rico event. There are lots of people botting to grind stuff for directives. I've observed the behavior and some of my audience in my streams have taken notice of it. When you see behavior like this, send a ticket to WG. They actually respond to this and analyze it. The event also leads to some perverse incentives that are not necessarily conducive to good play either. Also remember that weekend players are also vacation players. This means that the entire period between 21 December and 6-8 January is basically weekend.

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44 minutes ago, JubaM24 said:

its not about WG lack for education/training for new players.

Its about Matchmaking .. which should consider players winrate/Personal Rating and split them between team adequately.

 

Most of the time its Unicums VS 40%-30%  win rate players

 

 

They could, of course, actually be doing that quite deliberately - but with the intention of increasing the churn rate by speeding up games.

 

 

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Directives and mission grinding have generally been the source of horrible gameplay in both WOT and WOWs.  Whenever there are new missions gameplay plumets.
I recall some missions in WOT requiring light tanks just spotting first a given number of enemy tanks, well, you'd see light tanks just rush into all enemy in the middle of the map and die in less than 1 minute..... 

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6 minutes ago, You_Overextended said:

Hell, the only thing that's missing is that WG put its own tutorial videos on its official channels in the game UI

Inkedshot-20_01.14_11_01.52-0216_LI.thumb.jpg.aedf197d42cdaa39dc8111c15f51aaac.jpgshot-20_01.14_11_04.30-0340.thumb.jpg.d95056c31cf2e19373c12b03954aeced.jpg

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1 minute ago, Hanse77SWE said:

Inkedshot-20_01.14_11_01.52-0216_LI.thumb.jpg.aedf197d42cdaa39dc8111c15f51aaac.jpgshot-20_01.14_11_04.30-0340.thumb.jpg.d95056c31cf2e19373c12b03954aeced.jpg

Oh boy. I've been playing the game for over a year and didn't even notice that! I learn something new every day! :D

Maybe it should be a little more obvious for "special" people like myself lol :D

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1 hour ago, T3ddyBear said:

"what are we doing here, is there another game we should try?" 

 

Basicly what we have been saying in our division too.

There is no incentive in playing a game (which main purpose should be fun) when literally half the games or more are UNFUN to the bone. You need to DRAG them kicking and screaming to finaly start playing the game, which might work every other time. Luckily it worked once yesterday, so we pulled it around.

 

Also id like to add:

People, who actually arent playing at all have been increasing in numbers. On average, i think 1 out of 24 doesnt play (can be more ofc). That doesnt only mean being AFK. Just a summary from the last dozen games or so:

- T6 BB (pink, big surprise), shoots our division in spawn several times, then reverses to map border doing nothing. Actually gets 17 XP for that !!!! probably cheating WGs AFK-detection system

- Several AFK ships in both teams

- Buffalo sitting at an island for a good 14 mins without any enemy in reach. Then runs off into the corner.

- Amagi refusing to fight, because there is no use ?! Glad they still killed him :fish_haloween:

- Mahan sitting at an island till we rushed him. He was almost dead till he started to reverse... probably watching YT or browsing FB who knows :fish_aqua:

 

image.png.90937936e1f16db7c4281d685cf789ec.png

took that while watching a streamer yesterday. Thats how basicly every game looks these days. 2 Teams hugging border in one part of the map. If you are unlucky, and only your team is doing it, its 9/10 GG and a loss.

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WG should make a new campaign, aimed at lower level ships but with difficult missions, and with some nice rewards as an incentive to complete.

 

Missions should be percentage based, because stuff like "get 5 citadel hits over an infinite number of battles" teaches nothing:

 

- In Tier n ships, achieve a rate of 30 % hits from all shells fired. (teaches aiming)

- In Tier n ships, bounce X % of AP shells from all shells fired at you. (teaches angling)

- In Tier n battleships, heal back 50 % of your hitpoints over the course of a battle and use only 2 DCPs (teaches BB play and consumable use) 

- In Tier n destroyers, lose a maximum of 10 % of your hitpoints and get three captured/assisted ribbons (teaches stealth and DD play)

- In Tier n destroyers, be the last destroyer alive and get at least one captured/assisted ribbon, or X spotting damage. Last 3 battles are counted. (same)

- In Tier n ships, receive X times your hitpoints as potential damage (teaches evasion)

- In Tier n ships, generate spotting damage of at least 10 % of the total damage dealt by your team (teaches that the game is about more than just sinking ships)

- In Tier n ships, reach a total winrate of 55 %, counting the last 10 battles.

 

I am sure WG or you can come up with more/better stuff.

 

Adjust the difficulty, so that you can't finish them by sheer luck alone and players actually have to try, make a little video for every mission, to show the gameplay you expect from them, and I am sure those basic game concepts will become common knowledge after some time.

 

Edit: And how about those little tips on the loading screens? No offense, but how important is it to show that North Cape was won by [OMNI] last season or whatever? Use that time and space for stuff like: "Did you know? Your effective armor increases when you angle yourself to the enemy. Don't go broadside, captain!" It's all about making players aware that those concepts even exist.

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2 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

- Several AFK ships in both teams

I've noticed a lot of ships pretending to be AFK. What I do is I drive into them as I'm moving to position from spawn. You'll quickly notice how they immediately press W and keep moving after that. Possible bot behavior, but I just think it's people pretending to be AFK because they're scared of moving and only do so when someone else "nudges" them.

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5 minutes ago, genosse said:

Some good stuff.

I had the idea that this kind of stuff should be on each ship so you can't progress to the next one without learning something.

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54 minutes ago, Jethro_Grey said:

That Kind of attentionspan actually requires a halfway working brain, and you really wanna tell me that the average wallet warrior is able of more then "use credit Card" and "press left click"?? 

 

The average IQ of These Players is barely above that of over cooked Sprouts, pls don't make them think they have cognitive abilities that exceed those of a pot plant. 

thank you for your consideration. 

What I am saying is that everything WG has done over the last year is not because WG is stupid and they don't 'get us', it is more likely that their behind the scene projections show them dumbing down the game will result in a growing revenue. They are taking their niche WW2 era steel ship game into generic it-could-be anything-territory. Catering to what you deem the most stupid among us is actually profitable in that scenario. Also, you hold a higher esteem to mobile phone designed games then I do. But then again, I don't play them at all so what do I know. AFK arena? WTF.... :Smile_amazed:

 

What you all might be missing here is that WG has a different agenda for this game.

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