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Jethro_Grey

Huge DD nerf might be coming for patch 0.9.1

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The Black's torps can be useful for area denial. Fire & forget - and a few minutes later you might get a hit (although never that often)

 

Will be rarer than Hens teeth if this change goes live. What's next - showing torps on the map for all to see...

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3 minutes ago, Beaker71 said:

Will be rarer than Hens teeth if this change goes live. What's next - showing torps on the map for all to see...

Don't give them any more lunatic ideas... they won't be satisfied until this game is fit only for 5 year olds..

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7 hours ago, MrConway said:

I agree with this. If someone really wants to slot TASM and Vigilance, they can be my guest. It will make them more survivable against torpedoes but it will mean that they will be burned down from a distance by the rest of the team.

 

You are looking at this from the perspective of an entire team, but you fail to look at it from the perspective of the torpedo boat player. The fact a Smolensk will burn his target more easily will be poor consolation when anyone with this module can dodge torps with ease. I agree that I'd rather have concealment module on, but a lot of people will make the argument that they're spotted by CV's all the time anyway, and use it. This will dramatically lower the damage potential of the torpedo boat.

 

So, pray tell, why would someone play, say, a PA dd after this hits live? So they can have their amazing 25k damage games? They'll just switch class, leading to a further decrease of the DD population.

 

This is a poorly thought out idea, and what worries me is that you people actually think it's viable in the current meta that is heavily stacked against DD's. I mean you just finished a year that was all about making times tougher for DD's; reworked CV's with their rocket planes in almost every game, an entire line with anti-DD specialized ammo, defAA and AA in general becoming useless, which is a double DD nerf - hugging friendly AA is less effective now, and with defAA nerfed into the ground everyone slots hydo instead, now.

 

So in the middle of all this, you introduce a module that replaces stealth (which is all but gone with all the CV's around) and makes torps much easier to spot, and even makes you able to take their hits better? In what universe is this a well thought out idea? Ok, yes, target acquisition module was trash and nobody who wasn't an absolute potato or memeing hard used it. Can you please come up with a solution that doesn't additonally nerf a class that is consistently being hit hard by your infamous "balancing" decisions?

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23 minutes ago, MrConway said:

I disagree. Firstly, compared to the old module, the new module is actually worse for a lot of the torpedoes that you can be facing in game. 

 

IJN lines only AFAIK, what about the other 6 lines.

 

 

23 minutes ago, MrConway said:

On the other hand, the detection for the sneaky torpedoes becomes more consistent and better for those that choose the module, actually making it useful in some scenarios.

 

"Sneaky" torpedoes generally means "slower", how do you think the likes of the USN mk15 are going to fare at 55 knots, or the Italian cruiser ones at 51 knots?

 

What about deep water torpedoes?  Sacrifice ability to hit some ships for improved stealth, oh except your stealth is now the same as everyone elses, but heck you've probably sold all the Asashios you're going to sell so who cares.

 

Finally, IJN detection was nerfed in a failed attempt to reduce that line's popularity and had nothing to do with actual combat performance, now you're applying a global nerf to every other DD line that actually buffs the one line you wanted to control.

 

Disgusting.

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@Capra76 Makes you wonder about the people in control of this games direction... We move from 2019 with all the crap from 8.0 to 2020 where they are attempting to pacify groups of players who just want total supremacy regardless of what it does to the game... At this rate PVP will become a thing of the past and all these complainants will only ever have Bots as opponents.. won't that be fun..

 

Usually, you'd expect games like this to listen to the majority of players and not pander to crackpot ideas from players who are about as competitive as a squashed Slug.

 

What will you do WG when you drive away your loyal player base?

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33 minutes ago, MrConway said:

ery popular and we want to turn it into a realistic option for people to choose. Personally, I would still rather mount better concealment on most of my ships.

 

 

I agree with this. If someone really wants to slot TASM and Vigilance, they can be my guest. It will make them more survivable against torpedoes but it will mean that they will be burned down from a distance by the rest of the team.

 

For certain ships and playstyles it may be an interesting choice, but it is not suddenly going to make battleships invulnerable to torpedo attack.

 

It is a nerf for ALL DDs, even though some will be more affected than others, no matter how you put it.

As it is now, it is a braindead idea and absolutely unnecessary.

 

Funnily enough, the module will eventually become next to useless when you have managed to remove DDs from the game... 

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The Friesland definitely on my shopping list now. Although if the DD numbers drop because of this, debatable it there would be any point.

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9 minutes ago, Captain_Newman said:

I agree that I'd rather have concealment module on, but a lot of people will make the argument that they're spotted by CV's all the time anyway, and use it. This will dramatically lower the damage potential of the torpedo boat.

 

What you also have to consider is the Pareto principle, aka the 80/20 rule, which might in this case say that 80% of torpedo damage comes from 20% of the BB players.

 

If the 20% of BB players with zero situational awareness who sail in straight lines for minutes at a time suddenly get a tool that substantially reduces the damage they take from torpedoes then it doesn't really matter what the other 80% of the population chooses for their ship, if the 20% who chose the module see their damage taken cut in half, that's a 40% cut to total DD damage output.

 

Obviously numbers are illustrative of principle and not necessarily a description of the in game's playerbase, but the point is that those who regularly take torpedo damage will take this module, and the others don't matter to the damage output anyway.

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[THESO]
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i run into a lot of dd's even with the tam lately. any ship in the line of my asashios torps with that module will render asashio useless. torping through 1 to 2 lines of ships b4 even be able to hit something already is hard ngh. add some bobo bb's with that mod and vigilance on top (u can't get shot if u're on border behind spawn, who needs concealment there anyway?!................) they gonna spot em from the moon each time they might get through unspotted to them.

bollocks idea imho. there's sooo many nubs ingame who will slot this, that's a promise!

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1 hour ago, MrConway said:

For any torpedo with a detection range above 1.5 KM, this new module will have less of an effect compared to the old one. On the other hand, the detection for the sneaky torpedoes becomes more consistent and better for those that choose the module, actually making it useful in some scenarios.

How does that factor in deep water torps? Those are effectivly nerfed to the ground. The old module only gave a +20 % to their detection range. Now it can be far more then +100 %. It essentially removes the one advantage those DDs had, being highly effective against BBs, while they keep the disadvantage of being useless against DDs and in some cases cruisers.

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1 hour ago, MrConway said:

but it is not suddenly going to make battleships invulnerable to torpedo attack.

You don’t NEED to make BB’s invulnerable to torps when you’ve MADE the idea/desire of having to slug through being a DD pointless. 
 

I mean, I love my DD’s. Truly. But now it’s just miserable to play them. Even a bad CV players ruins any stealth and surprise. And then the amount of Radar and Hydro in the game? Makes it is at best “workable”...


But these days you’re either the only DD in the team or the only DD left after 4 mins of game time due potato yolo’ing, so of course BB’s don’t fear torpedos and they certainly will have less fear until those “subs” come. Coz I’m not playing DD’s when they launch. I’ve seen what those guided underwater missiles do.

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18 hours ago, kfa said:

Guys! Its a Shima buff finally! 

We thought it couldn't be done, but here it is. Shima, being made worse, but not as much worse as the others. Raise a glass, shima captains! 

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Shima is Shima, She had to deal with a lot of Nervs already and still roking the boat ^^.. She´s outgunned, outspeeded out torpranged almost but still got the best Torps ingame:) ..

Well WG only sees that... uhh too many torps in Water, we gotta reduce them, but hey here are the next 5 Cruiser with 10km Torprange 1.6 spottingrange and running 90 knots*gg* ohh and by the way we are planning to give Torps now more to BB´s to :)  

But we need to reduce the DD Players we got to many of them *Last battle 9/12 Ships where BB´s 1 CV 1 DD 1 CA on a side:) *

 

WG: What you want, you´re getting more and more Gunboots.. Bäm Bäm Bäm :)

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1 hour ago, Migantium_Mashum said:

So those people who purchased premium DD's can expect a full refund then eh after these changes come in?

 

People purchased premium because they were just that and now they are going to be no better than the Silver lines... How do you justify that?

 

Your people actually don't give a toss for your player base... or perhaps you favour minorities over majorities.... seem to remember you did this last year too...

 

While premium ships are currently not being nerfed, they have always been and will always be subject to changes made to the game as a whole.

 

Premium ships are not supposed to be better than regular ships. And as always, if specific premium ships need to be improved, that is something we are willing to do.

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Prem. ships are not supposed the be better then regluar ships....hmmmmmmmmmm

lemme think....that's why Belfast, Imperator Nikolai, Kamikaze or Mikhail Kutuzov are not any longer in the shop or even an Enterprise, because they are "as good as regular tech tree ships" (i forgot to add Giulio)

and even when we even speak of Ships that are availble for Coal and Steel......yes Smolensk is balance as well as Stalin.

The train has left for a long time with this "argument"

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2 hours ago, MrConway said:

I disagree. Firstly, compared to the old module, the new module is actually worse for a lot of the torpedoes that you can be facing in game. 

 

For any torpedo with a detection range above 1.5 KM, this new module will have less of an effect compared to the old one. On the other hand, the detection for the sneaky torpedoes becomes more consistent and better for those that choose the module, actually making it useful in some scenarios.

The problem is that it makes the sneaky torpedoes significantly less useful for the DD player compared to other torpedo types that don't have short detection ranges to begin with. And sneaky torpedoes often have other disadvantages to pay for that concealment advantage, such as

-DWTs not being able to hit all ship categories

-Being slower (US drifting sea mines spring to mind)

 

At least previously when you slotted the TASM module, it still took the individual balancing of different torpedo types into account. All torpedo types were slightly less effective against a ship that slotted TASM, but the advantage of having stealthier torps was still there. With the new module, one significant factor that is used to balance different torpedo types against each other is thrown out the window, and the only thing that's going to matter is torpedo speed.

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TASM was an obsolete module (garbage) that needed to be reworked a long time ago.

I am glad they are changing it, but still I would take the CE module over it in my BBs, and I believe very few will take this module so it is again obsolete from the beginning.

But there are a lot of new modules that improve the life of a DD directly so I don't see this as a nerf to DDs, as it is the constant spotting done by planes.

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Take the existing module, give it the 5% damage reduction and up the torpedo spotting range improvement from 20% to maybe 30-40-ish % and call it a day. Slightly less useless, without throwing all of the balancing of torpedo types out the window.

 

That said, though, after what's been going on the last year it's probably time you started thinking of ways to make DD play less unattractive, not more.

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19 minutes ago, Uglesett said:

With the new module, one significant factor that is used to balance different torpedo types against each other is thrown out the window, and the only thing that's going to matter is torpedo speed.

I'm sure that has nothing to do with the fast torpedo speeds of the upcoming Swedish DD line.

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1 hour ago, Elypse201 said:

lemme think....that's why Belfast, Imperator Nikolai, Kamikaze or Mikhail Kutuzov are not any longer in the shop

Belfast and Kutuzov are not longer in shop cause after releasing them WG realized that high rate HE spamming cruisers with smoke are cancerous.

 

So they removed them and would never again release a ship with such characteristics.

 

Spoiler

:Smile_trollface:

 

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So, Asashio torps will be spotted at 1.8km only beaten by Yudachi torps with worst torp concealment of 1.9km. The difference is you can hit anything with yudachi torps while asashio torps work for bbs and cvs only. And the most of the time ships evade yudachi torps cuz they can be spotted from so far. This mod would force ships like asashio and pan Asian dds setting a trap, ambushing from behind islands in expense of potentially getting plebbed. What will happen to asashio and pan Asian dd line with this change @MrConway I mean they’d become sort of obsolete. Is there any thought for these ships at wg? Thanks.

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3 hours ago, Migantium_Mashum said:

 

People purchased premium because they were just that and now they are going to be no better than the Silver lines... How do you justify that?

That is a weird reason to purchase premiums honestly, but I see a ton of people buying them because they think they're better. Honestly, most of the premiums I recently bought or own are out-of-meta slightly underpowered ships compared to the tech tree counterparts. But they still present something interesting. I like my Yudachi even though CCs trash it, for example. Irian is also superbly fun.

 

3 hours ago, MixuS said:

If I'm sailing a torp DD, it does not exactly comfort me that a BB that is invulnerable to my torpedos dies easier to my team's HE spam.

Idk about you, but I enjoy spotting and being patient until I find proper torpedo opportunities towards enemies that I can zone off/corrall. It's actually not difficult. What's difficult about it is that you're not 100% gung-ho and focused on slamming your ship into the enemy to do dmg, so it can get a little boring until the mid game. Speaking on invulnerability, have you tried dodging torps as a BB spotted 1.8 km away while you were broadside to them? It's only really feasible when you're already slightly angled (i.e., sailing at least somewhat diagonally towards the torps). Even then it's not a guarantee they'll miss your ship, what with those turning circles and large rudder shifts.

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1 hour ago, Elypse201 said:

Prem. ships are not supposed the be better then regluar ships....hmmmmmmmmmm

lemme think....that's why Belfast, Imperator Nikolai, Kamikaze or Mikhail Kutuzov are not any longer in the shop or even an Enterprise, because they are "as good as regular tech tree ships" (i forgot to add Giulio)

and even when we even speak of Ships that are availble for Coal and Steel......yes Smolensk is balance as well as Stalin.

The train has left for a long time with this "argument"

 

The fact that there are some ships that are better does not mean that premium ships are supposed to be better. And as we all hopefully remember, we did want to rebalance those last year.

 

59 minutes ago, Uglesett said:

Take the existing module, give it the 5% damage reduction and up the torpedo spotting range improvement from 20% to maybe 30-40-ish % and call it a day. Slightly less useless, without throwing all of the balancing of torpedo types out the window.

 

That said, though, after what's been going on the last year it's probably time you started thinking of ways to make DD play less unattractive, not more.

 

So what happens to torpedoes with higher detection range in that case? They would be spotted from miles away.

 

20 minutes ago, L8viathan said:

So, Asashio torps will be spotted at 1.8km only beaten by Yudachi torps with worst torp concealment of 1.9km. The difference is you can hit anything with yudachi torps while asashio torps work for bbs and cvs only. And the most of the time ships evade yudachi torps cuz they can be spotted from so far. This mod would force ships like asashio and pan Asian dds setting a trap, ambushing from behind islands in expense of potentially getting plebbed. What will happen to asashio and pan Asian dd line with this change @MrConway I mean they’d become sort of obsolete. Is there any thought for these ships at wg? Thanks.

 

That is assuming that every player will mount this module on their ship, which I find highly unlikely.

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2 minutes ago, MrConway said:

[...]

 

 

That is assuming that every player will mount this module on their ship, which I find highly unlikely.

3 per team is more than ngh....

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