dd nerf Huge DD nerf might be coming for patch 0.9.1

[Captain_Newman]

43 minutes ago, Bics93 said:

 

Uh? If you want to spot and torp things, probably russian DDs are not the right choice, try the Gearing line: you will find good torps and fast rotating turrets there  

 

Correct. The long reload and slow traverse, but good alpha and accuracy of the railguns, as well as great speed was meant to tell you they're not exactly knife fighters. Turret traverse doesn't matter that much if you play them at correct engagement ranges. Okhotnik torps are short ranged at 4.5km, yes, but she gets an unholy amount of them - it's a t5 short ranged shima wall of skill. Raising their range would put this ship squaerly in the broken category. What these torps are for: making sure there's a 4.5km zone around you that's basically guaranteed torp death. This ensures that you can keep your enemy DD's at ranges you want them at. Another use is late game ambushes / yolo rushes on bb's, ofc. As such, it works. Leningrad actually gets very decent 8km torps considering it's a speedy russian gunboat. If these ships need any buffs, I'd say spruce up the AA significantly as they see a lot of double CV games in their MM spread. But this is all a bit offtopic.

[NoirLotus]

The test server was opened yesterday so I gave it a try. Only 1 game in Asashio but no BB had the torpedo spotting upgrade ...

 

The speed upgrade on torps only give you +3 kts, that does not really change things, but it also reduce the chances of getting torpedo tubes damaged, so it reduces the drawback of the torpedo reload upgrade on 6th slot.

 

 

[MrConway]

15 hours ago, MrWastee said:

 not even worth a lol, but yeah.... let's see what spreadsheet says hrrgnnn .... just, plz, answer me this one question: does it stack with hydro? what's actually the most possible max spotting range (german special vigilance, modul, and if so german hydro)? and what is the downsteps in terms of other nations vigilance ranges (+hydro)?

 

.... just a memo to whoever watches their data: it's not only about quantitives, this very thing is nothing but a noobsavior ....

 

No, the module does not stack with hydro, as usual hydro will override the module.

[MrWastee]

2 hours ago, MrConway said:

 

No, the module does not stack with hydro, as usual hydro will override the module.

i just do not see anything set on "as usual" nowadays, hence the question ;P. thx 4 hopping by

[Yedwy]

18 hours ago, MrWastee said:

... just a memo to whoever watches their data: it's not only about quantitives, this very thing is nothing but a noobsavior ....

Ok with some torps stating this is hardly true as their spotting range is so low there is no option of evading them unless you are alrady almost in position to torpedoneat their spread anyway, its even questionalble if this module will be enough to dodge the higher tiered fast DWT as per spot, and oh muh "adapt and overcome" by random turns stuff will only take you so far esp since its not always possible to turn at all

[MrWastee]

50 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

Ok with some torps stating this is hardly true as their spotting range is so low there is no option of evading them unless you are alrady almost in position to torpedoneat their spread anyway, its even questionalble if this module will be enough to dodge the higher tiered fast DWT as per spot, and oh muh "adapt and overcome" by random turns stuff will only take you so far esp since its not always possible to turn at all

ok, i'll bite:

1st off these torps are indeed meant to be stealthy. they are meant to be deadly. and they are meant to only be able to hit certain classes of ships. i take asashio as mainexample, as that imo is the ship which suffers the most from this new mod. in that case it's usually 6 ships maximum per match that can be hit by its torps (better pray only 5 lol).

with a given combo of german hydro and german vigilance it already is possible to spot torps from the moon. for the downside of a cooldown and 3 skillpoints. now a combo of 3 skillpoints and only a module grants a passive torp hydro allmatch!

"but no one uses tasm anyway".... wrong! next to all the yellowhead bismarck skippers there's a LOAD of people running it. i encounter it on cruisers, even on a lot of dd's in randoms, and it becomes a lot of more frequent lately!

now usually any DW ship got to torp through at least 1 line of ships b4 being able to hit something.

there's more of ngh space and chances to usually dodge dw's, simply by the range they mostly are applied on. also, as explained, it's their perk to be hard to spot (hence "deepwater"). and now they all can get turned into shima longlances spotting-wise.... i artificially can see the "yummie" in all the bb kevins bubbles ...

basically that module is capable of nullifying the very fundamental argument for dw's existence: more a threat than normal torps, but to less possible targets! also it does nullify one out of 3 basics about the flavour of national torps (spotting range/speed/dmg).

 

also, why now work together anymore? as a bb can hdyro for itself so to say, without even the need to push a button lol.....

 

i will see what it does to the asashio, but seeing what they just did to henry (omfgrofllulz )..... well............... >*fart* is more of an appropiate comment here than anything i could write on it!<

[TheBrut3]

17 hours ago, Ze_Reckless said:

Has anyone received a Liquidator achievement since then?

As far as i know that achievement doesn't exist anymore. But i can be wrong.

[Yedwy]

@MrWastee yes german hydro with vigilance gives you option to spot Ashas fish in time, all other ships that dont have hydro are a different story alltogether and IRC the hydro (that has something like 3-3.5km spot distance for torps which is still more then this passive skill combo) alone was not enough to reliably dodge Ashash fish in tests CCs did with them  investing 3 cap points and a slot 5 module for chance to dodge say 1 in 3 fish more then without them is dodgy at best and hardly a noob savior stuff, noobs will get plastered one way or the other 

[Ze_Reckless]

11 minutes ago, TheBrut3 said:

As far as i know that achievement doesn't exist anymore. But i can be wrong.

It is listed in-game in the achievements tab and in the wiki, it is missing in the achievements tab on wows.eu. Not that it really matters, the flooding nerf that was called a buff by Conway is my concern (just like they called the radar buff from 11.7 to 12 km and longer duration a 'nerf').

[MrWastee]

41 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

@MrWastee yes german hydro with vigilance gives you option to spot Ashas fish in time, all other ships that dont have hydro are a different story alltogether and IRC the hydro (that has something like 3-3.5km spot distance for torps which is still more then this passive skill combo) alone was not enough to reliably dodge Ashash fish in tests CCs did with them  investing 3 cap points and a slot 5 module for chance to dodge say 1 in 3 fish more then without them is dodgy at best and hardly a noob savior stuff, noobs will get plastered one way or the other 

it not only is about the bb's itself. any ship in line with this module spots the torps way b4 they even get close to their targets. as being said, pan asian dw's mostly got to cross a dd somewhere, while asashio mostly got to torp through 2 lines of ships.

not all ships sport hydro, and if so mostly for a trade off (f.e. def AA). this modules tradeoff is concealment, which many players lately seem not to choose anyway (read my post b4). and if only like 3 bobs in a team go with it, it already is more than ngh of a threat to dw's existence, which is NOT to get spotted b4 reaching their target.

 

why a fixed value anyway as it destroys national flavour? why not simply raise the percentage in the given form, which would be way more apporpiate in any sense (while a raise imo is not justified in any other sense lol)?

 

ofc noobs will get plastered anyway this way or the other (while in that case we would not have so many backyard survivors allday long, would we?), but to me it is a GREAT difference to have my potential dmg output cut off by a third, for a non-existent tradeoff for the ones who decide to go with the module....

[M4R4Z]

12 minutes ago, MrWastee said:

why a fixed value anyway as it destroys national flavour? why not simply raise the percentage in the given form, which would be way more apporpiate in any sense (while a raise imo is not justified in any other sense lol)?

Because it would have affected then new DD line whicìch has superfast torpedoes with just 1.8 km detection range.

Yes, the DD line that many players will freeexp spending a lot of $$$.

[Migantium_Mashum]

6 hours ago, Yedwy said:

@MrWastee yes german hydro with vigilance gives you option to spot Ashas fish in time, all other ships that dont have hydro are a different story alltogether and IRC the hydro (that has something like 3-3.5km spot distance for torps which is still more then this passive skill combo) alone was not enough to reliably dodge Ashash fish in tests CCs did with them  investing 3 cap points and a slot 5 module for chance to dodge say 1 in 3 fish more then without them is dodgy at best and hardly a noob savior stuff, noobs will get plastered one way or the other 

German Hydro works for nothing if Asashio launches at 6.2km and uses TRB immediately after... Dodge that.

 

I regularly torpedo from between 6.2km-6.7km..

 

Also adding TA makes them even faster whilst still giving 16km range which works great for the BB 'camper fest' huggy groups...

 

Waiting for the BB 'Cry babies' to claim foul now...... Boo Hoo!!!!

 

 

 

 

[elblancogringo]

Sometimes, I wish I could know the rationale behind some of Wargaming's decisions.

I mean, why for example did they choose to put a specific detection range with the module, instead of a % increase?

Do they really not care that it will be an extremely hard nerf for some DDs, and not a nerf at all for others? Where is it fair to act like this? How could they decide such a change which obviously has the potential to mess up all the remaining balance between DDs, nation-wise?

In a game where balance is important, how can you introduce a module that will have many different effects depending on the specificity of the DD torps? Isn't it the same as admitting the balance is already broken, or that you don't care if you break it? I don't get it. really.

The only explanation which comes to mind is that it will entice people to play the upcoming line, with their fast torps. But surely, it can't be only that?

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

2 hours ago, elblancogringo said:

Sometimes, I wish I could know the rationale behind some of Wargaming's decisions.

The reason is simplicity. WG has been simplifying their game for a while now so players like the one in another thread demanding WG to 'fix his damage' can play stupid and still be happy.

[loppantorkel]

7 hours ago, elblancogringo said:

Sometimes, I wish I could know the rationale behind some of Wargaming's decisions.

I mean, why for example did they choose to put a specific detection range with the module, instead of a % increase?

Do they really not care that it will be an extremely hard nerf for some DDs, and not a nerf at all for others? Where is it fair to act like this? How could they decide such a change which obviously has the potential to mess up all the remaining balance between DDs, nation-wise?

In a game where balance is important, how can you introduce a module that will have many different effects depending on the specificity of the DD torps? Isn't it the same as admitting the balance is already broken, or that you don't care if you break it? I don't get it. really.

The only explanation which comes to mind is that it will entice people to play the upcoming line, with their fast torps. But surely, it can't be only that?

It could be they're unhappy with how Asashio worked out and they do this to correct some of the DW issues in a roundabout way without actually touching any premium ships. Then they can make their adjustments in whatever way they want to make any UP dds work again. ...or they might have no clue at all what they're doing.

[Nechrom]

7 hours ago, elblancogringo said:

Sometimes, I wish I could know the rationale behind some of Wargaming's decisions.

I mean, why for example did they choose to put a specific detection range with the module, instead of a % increase?

Do they really not care that it will be an extremely hard nerf for some DDs, and not a nerf at all for others? Where is it fair to act like this? How could they decide such a change which obviously has the potential to mess up all the remaining balance between DDs, nation-wise?

In a game where balance is important, how can you introduce a module that will have many different effects depending on the specificity of the DD torps? Isn't it the same as admitting the balance is already broken, or that you don't care if you break it? I don't get it. really.

The only explanation which comes to mind is that it will entice people to play the upcoming line, with their fast torps. But surely, it can't be only that?

Maybe they want to throw the high detection torp carriers a bone? For the most part they have the least amount of tools to offset less effective torps.

If the Gearing's torps end up less effective against users of this upgrade, it's already a strong ship without those torps. While something like an IJN DD with 127mm guns have to lean on their torps for most of their usefulness.

There's also something to be said about the questionable usefulness of an upgrade that brings torp visibility from 0.9km to 1.08km (Asashio).

The idea is to make the upgrade useful without scaling too hard with the already easily avoidable torps.

[pzkpfwv1d]

From reading the article that WG published this module replaces the modules for extended spotting, I can not see where the problem is as most serious players will have opted for concealment module 

[Capra76]

1 hour ago, pzkpfwv1d said:

From reading the article that WG published this module replaces the modules for extended spotting, I can not see where the problem is as most serious players will have opted for concealment module 

 

Well, I guess there's a couple of problems:

1. WG want to move players away from concealment and towards anti-torpedo detection, if this doesn't work expect more buffs to the skill;
2. the "serious" players aren't the ones straight-lining into torpedoes, this is a buff to the players who are;
3. do DD really need more nerfs?

 

3 hours ago, Nechrom said:

Maybe they want to throw the high detection torp carriers a bone?

 

Maybe they could just lower the detection for those torps? 

 

I mean it was only raised to that level in the first place because WG wanted to control the number of IJN DD in the game, why introduce a global change that reverses previous nerfs to one line and nerfs every other line?

[Cammo1962]

5 hours ago, Nechrom said:

Maybe they want to throw the high detection torp carriers a bone? For the most part they have the least amount of tools to offset less effective torps.

If the Gearing's torps end up less effective against users of this upgrade, it's already a strong ship without those torps. While something like an IJN DD with 127mm guns have to lean on their torps for most of their usefulness.

There's also something to be said about the questionable usefulness of an upgrade that brings torp visibility from 0.9km to 1.08km (Asashio).

The idea is to make the upgrade useful without scaling too hard with the already easily avoidable torps.

Corretion 0,9 km to 1,8 km and that is a huge nerf for any deep warter torps.

[britinmadrid]

6 hours ago, Capra76 said:

3. do DD really need more nerfs?

 

Not really, no.

 

I do not play DDs as my main class and am at best mediocre in them.

 

However, from what I can see from my Cruisers is that in Tiers VIII, IX & X DDs are as rare as an honest politician.

 

This latest brain fart from WG is just another nail in the coffin … possibly the last … of DDs at high Tiers. It is normally one DD per high tier game now.

[Migantium_Mashum]

7 hours ago, Capra76 said:

do DD really need more nerfs?

No but that won't stop them.

 

16 hours ago, Europizza said:

The reason is simplicity. WG has been simplifying their game for a while now so players like the one in another thread demanding WG to 'fix his damage' can play stupid and still be happy.

To the total detriment of the game.

 

 

You have to be good to play a DD... you must watch for the CV, avoid radar, avoid Hydro, watch for other stronger DD's, be the eyes of the team, cap zones, smoke or defend your allies and be ready to avoid enemy torpedoes.. You spend more time on the Mini Map than the main view and yet you're punished for playing well because of the SuckTards in the other classes... I mean as @Europizza highlighted it's near impossible to even get a flood never mind earn a Liquidator achievement... 13 torpedo hits on 4 ships to get a single flood ribbon is a joke.. A torpedo when it explodes rips a big hole... But, not to WG...

 

WG is taking the fun out of this game yet again... they'll only realise their folly when they are left with the 10 year olds.... drive away the DD's you kill the game because all the other Tiers will have to take over the DD job..

[Nechrom]

7 hours ago, Cammo1962 said:

Corretion 0,9 km to 1,8 km and that is a huge nerf for any deep warter torps.

I was pointing out how the current upgrade functions, not the new one. And why it maybe wasn't very useful, prompting this new change.

[Cammo1962]

3 hours ago, Nechrom said:

I was pointing out how the current upgrade functions, not the new one. And why it maybe wasn't very useful, prompting this new change.

Sorry i misunderstod you there @Nechrom 

[Procrastes]

On 1/23/2020 at 12:01 AM, invicta2012 said:

Well... it is, really. It provides a significant buff to thoroughbred IJN type torp boats while reducing the efficacy of generalists such as the US, RN and PA line which - dare I say it - perhaps have enough things going for them already?  It also reduces the efficacy of super slow torpedoes from the like of Black and Sims, which really shouldn't be that good.....

 

... I also wonder how many BB players we will see taking it. German BBs perhaps, with their brawling playstyle? Not a small market for WG, by all accounts....

 

 

(....oh, and I think it's cruiser players who need to worry more than DDs).

 

Good and nuanced thoughts!

I find it especially interesting that you believe that cruiser players should worry more than destroyer players. Why is that?

[invicta2012]

26 minutes ago, Procrastes said:

I find it especially interesting that you believe that cruiser players should worry more than destroyer players. Why is that?

Most of the cruisers in my port have torps with a detection range of 1.0-1.3 km. Cruiser torps are often used in "do or die" scenarios, ambushes or to ward off onrushing heavy ships. Those ships will now have an extra 0.5-0.8k warning of incoming torpedoes, and that's a problem for cruisers, because if they get into torp range they have to make a decisive strike and now it looks as if that's going to be very much more difficult against anyone with the new module.