MyopicHedgehog ∞ Players 645 posts 9,404 battles Report post #301 Posted January 23, 2020 2 hours ago, Nechrom said: Looks like I might be the only one who actually thinks this new upgrade is a positive. Asashio is fudged obviously, which is bad. The other DW torp DDs also to a lesser extent. But otherwise the fact that it barely affects IJN torps and other already super visible torps is a good thing. With the old upgrade it impacted the big visibility torps the most and the low visibility torps the least, which is backwards imo. I think they should have two different values for regular and DW torps if they still intend to keep the DW torp concept. They could have adjusted the parameters of the various torpedos if there was a problem, instead of buffing BBs again. You know, actually balancing the game properly. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SM0KE] Verblonde Players 9,787 posts 20,620 battles Report post #302 Posted January 23, 2020 6 minutes ago, MyopicHedgehog said: They could have adjusted the parameters of the various torpedos if there was a problem Or just gone with a percentage increase to the distance that torps are spotted with the module - I suspect they didn't because multiplying by 1.1 (or whatever) takes more brain cells than the target audience for the module may have...? 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
genosse Players 460 posts 6,789 battles Report post #303 Posted January 23, 2020 37 minutes ago, MyopicHedgehog said: They could have adjusted the parameters of the various torpedos if there was a problem, instead of buffing BBs again. You know, actually balancing the game properly. I am actually also pretty happy about the module rework, because some of them were just pointless and nobody ever took them, but: Why did the devs work with a fixed range of 1.8 km? So much frustration could have been avoided, if it was just a percentage increase to torp spotting - a shame, really. It's like the concealment module giving you a fixed detection range of 10 km, no matter the ship you are driving. Such a little thing spoiling something, that would have been otherwise seen as strictly positive by probably everyone ... makes my head hurt. 13 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SM0KE] Verblonde Players 9,787 posts 20,620 battles Report post #304 Posted January 23, 2020 7 minutes ago, genosse said: I am actually also pretty happy about the module rework, because some of them were just pointless and nobody ever took them, but: Why did the devs work with a fixed range of 1.8 km. So much frustration could have been avoided, if it was just a percentage increase to torp spotting - a shame, really. This. I don't believe I've heard a single whinge about any of the others...? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[BUSHI] Odo_Toothless Players 5,402 posts 24,784 battles Report post #305 Posted January 23, 2020 Time after time, WG choices confirm that only F2P strategy is a right choice in this game. If something is nerfed to the ground, then We can move on to other stuff without regret. Torps nerfed ? So what I can play CV. CV nerfed ? So what, i can play cruisers etc. 9 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[OCTO] Zen71_sniper [OCTO] Players 1,268 posts 36,598 battles Report post #306 Posted January 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Captain_Newman said: Unless your ultimate goal is to have teams entirely made of CV's and fast-firing high arc HE spammers just farming each other, you need to stop and consider the direction you're taking with the game. Sadly, everything is pointing in this direction. EVERY, and I mean EVERY new update is "unification" and removal of any skill-based mechanics. HE spamming BBs, removal of flooding, DD nerf, etc. Whatever makes a player delete another is not good for the game, as the player might get frustrated and leave. HE spam is skill-free, last long and BB Kevins are ahppy as they had some satisfaction and HE spammers too. And the reason why is - the masses (with wallets) don't want to learn. I would venture and say that the game is being tailored for two segments: kids (who just like pretty graphics - still remember the answer from one of them on forum on question why he prefers the new AA - and his answer was that it looks so good) and 30+ whales who just want to relax after work without need to learn and muh-duh shoot ships. So yeah, happy 2020.... The trend is for sure not going to reverse. Sadly, there is no decent alternative to naval battles, otherwise, half of my clan would be gone by now.... 10 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[CRM2B] Toxoplasmosi Players 369 posts 12,552 battles Report post #307 Posted January 23, 2020 @MrConway Would you please adjust the rotation speed of the turrets of the premium RU DD (Leningrad, Okotnik...)? And give them and to all others RU DDs some DD appearance? They are sooooo spottable, they shoot sooooooo slowly, they have slooooow and short torpedoes and do little damage. Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease! Please!... please... пожалуйста Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[OCTO] Zen71_sniper [OCTO] Players 1,268 posts 36,598 battles Report post #308 Posted January 23, 2020 26 minutes ago, genosse said: I am actually also pretty happy about the module rework, because some of them were just pointless and nobody ever took them, but: Why did the devs work with a fixed range of 1.8 km. So much frustration could have been avoided, if it was just a percentage increase to torp spotting - a shame, really. It's like the concealment module giving you a fixed detection range of 10 km, no matter the ship you are driving. Such a little thing spoiling something, that would have been otherwise seen as strictly positive by probably everyone ... makes my head hurt. "unification" a.k.a dumbification 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[UNICS] Nechrom Beta Tester 4,870 posts 10,112 battles Report post #309 Posted January 23, 2020 1 hour ago, MyopicHedgehog said: They could have adjusted the parameters of the various torpedos if there was a problem, instead of buffing BBs again. You know, actually balancing the game properly. They wanted a choice. Something to rival concealment as an alternative upgrade. The old one didn't do enough to the really stealthy torps and too much to the not so stealthy ones. Remember that 1.6km detection torps and up are better off with this new upgrade. 1.5km is equal, and anything lower is worse off. So not a buff in my book. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[FIFO] britinmadrid [FIFO] Beta Tester 204 posts 15,766 battles Report post #310 Posted January 23, 2020 3 hours ago, MrConway said: No, we are not planning to offer refunds for Asashio's. I am aware that this can potentially impact her performance, which is one of the special cases we will be monitoring following the release. I suggest you wait until the change has gone live before making your mind up either way, once it is live I would be glad to get your feedback on how the change has affected gameplay either way. Thanks for answering, MrConway, but there's no 'suggest' to it as my money has already gone and you have changed the deal on a Premium … I am quite simply trapped. That being said, if this ship suffers a mere 1% nerf as a result of this new BB module then it is not what WG advertised or what I bought and I cannot 'make up my mind' as that implies a choice which you are not, in fact, offering me. This being the case, I cannot see how WG can reconcile the owners of Premium DWT ships and the fact that there purchase has been nerfed … your company is trapped. Still, I hope you'll do me the courtesy of accepting a PM from me in the form of the feedback you mentioned when the dust has settled? Best foot forward, lad - I'd feel ashamed were my company to treat customers like this! 7 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MyopicHedgehog ∞ Players 645 posts 9,404 battles Report post #311 Posted January 23, 2020 Just now, Nechrom said: They wanted a choice. Something to rival concealment as an alternative upgrade. The old one didn't do enough to the really stealthy torps and too much to the not so stealthy ones. Remember that 1.6km detection torps and up are better off with this new upgrade. 1.5km is equal, and anything lower is worse off. So not a buff in my book. So, RN, ITA cruisers, Black, Sims etc get a nerf - DD & CL nerf is an indirect BB buff. TBH, this discussion is a little pointless as I agree that the module needed a re-do, however, just making it a fixed detection range is lazy at best. If there are torps that need a buff, buff them individually. The module could always have given a % modifier to torp detection (as suggested in two of the posts above). 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[UNICS] Nechrom Beta Tester 4,870 posts 10,112 battles Report post #312 Posted January 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, MyopicHedgehog said: The module could always have given a % modifier to torp detection (as suggested in two of the posts above). That is what we have now. I assume the switch from a relative modifier to a fixed min-range was done for a reason, or they wouldn't have switched. Could have just swapped the assured ship detection for the torp protection bonus if they wanted to be lazy. My guess is because a modifier gives bigger effects for already high detection torps, which is not what you want. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CptBarney Players 8,127 posts 245 battles Report post #313 Posted January 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, Nechrom said: That is what we have now. I assume the switch from a relative modifier to a fixed min-range was done for a reason, or they wouldn't have switched. Could have just swapped the assured ship detection for the torp protection bonus if they wanted to be lazy. My guess is because a modifier gives bigger effects for already high detection torps, which is not what you want. hmm i wonder why no ones mentioned the air dropped torpedo thing? that basically allows miss hosho to get her 50knot torps bak. I think. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capra76 Players 5,001 posts 7,787 battles Report post #314 Posted January 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Verblonde said: Or just gone with a percentage increase to the distance that torps are spotted with the module - I suspect they didn't because multiplying by 1.1 (or whatever) takes more brain cells than the target audience for the module may have...? Being cynical for a moment, is it possible that this change is a direct nerf to Asashio dressed up as a "global change" and WG are just happy to throw other DD lines under the bus as collateral damage in the process. 8,500 games in her last week on this server, compared to the other known problem premiums (Belfast - 2,000; MK - 1,500; Kamikaze sisters 3,500) perhaps she's too popular to just be removed from sale. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[UNICS] Nechrom Beta Tester 4,870 posts 10,112 battles Report post #315 Posted January 23, 2020 6 minutes ago, CptBarney said: hmm i wonder why no ones mentioned the air dropped torpedo thing? that basically allows miss hosho to get her 50knot torps bak. I think. Not just that, but also the ship torp upgrade. 5% faster torps is no joke. 2 minutes ago, Capra76 said: Being cynical for a moment, is it possible that this change is a direct nerf to Asashio dressed up as a "global change" and WG are just happy to throw other DD lines under the bus as collateral damage in the process. 8,500 games in her last week on this server, compared to the other known problem premiums (Belfast - 2,000; MK - 1,500; Kamikaze sisters 3,500) perhaps she's too popular to just be removed from sale. That's a bit too tinfoil hat for me. They've removed plenty of very popular ships from sale, that's kind of the reason they get removed. Also Yukikaze has better WR and is pretty much the opposite of the Asashio, using her fast short range torps with *drumroll* 1.8km detection. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CptBarney Players 8,127 posts 245 battles Report post #316 Posted January 23, 2020 1 minute ago, Nechrom said: Not just that, but also the ship torp upgrade. 5% faster torps is no joke. Ahh didn't see that bit. Also when i get enuff storage to play azur lane again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[THESO] MrWastee Players 4,255 posts 33,568 battles Report post #317 Posted January 23, 2020 7 hours ago, MrConway said: After having looked at our test results we didn't see a strong reason not to proceed with the module as planned. We will however be monitoring the live-results closely and if necessary make changes to the module and/or affected torpedoes (Deepwater, USS Black etc.) going forward. not even worth a lol, but yeah.... let's see what spreadsheet says hrrgnnn .... just, plz, answer me this one question: does it stack with hydro? what's actually the most possible max spotting range (german special vigilance, modul, and if so german hydro)? and what is the downsteps in terms of other nations vigilance ranges (+hydro)? .... just a memo to whoever watches their data: it's not only about quantitives, this very thing is nothing but a noobsavior .... 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MyopicHedgehog ∞ Players 645 posts 9,404 battles Report post #318 Posted January 23, 2020 50 minutes ago, Nechrom said: That is what we have now. I assume the switch from a relative modifier to a fixed min-range was done for a reason, or they wouldn't have switched. Could have just swapped the assured ship detection for the torp protection bonus if they wanted to be lazy. My guess is because a modifier gives bigger effects for already high detection torps, which is not what you want. Yes, it was done for a reason - the all-knowing spreadsheet. The unfortunate part of this is sensible game balance & decision could have actually produced something balanced! WG and balance and sensible game decisions are not concepts that sit together well unfortunately. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capra76 Players 5,001 posts 7,787 battles Report post #319 Posted January 23, 2020 30 minutes ago, Nechrom said: That's a bit too tinfoil hat for me. They've removed plenty of very popular ships from sale, that's kind of the reason they get removed. The normal reason they're removed from sale is because they're overperforming and that tends to make them quite popular ships as well, but I don't think the numbers of those ships were anywhere near those of Asashio so she's a much bigger problem that perhaps needs more urgent attention than usual, also the fact that the overperformance is directed against WG's favoured class is not going to help her. On top of that the smoke firing penalty change was significantly driven by Belfast/MK so it's not as if WG don't have form in this area. The effect on DWT and Asashio in particular is so obvious that I can't imagine that the developers haven't noticed it, and it would be easy to add a 1.0 km DWT rule so presumably the effect is intended and since the PA ships can be nerfed directly the logical conclusion is that Asashio is the target. Maybe I'm wrong but there's not a great deal of sense in the changes unless this is the intention. 45 minutes ago, Nechrom said: Also Yukikaze has better WR and is pretty much the opposite of the Asashio, using her fast short range torps with *drumroll* 1.8km detection. 4 players and 58 games in that ship last week; I don't think the comparison is much use. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[ENUF] Ze_Reckless [ENUF] Players 2,532 posts 23,427 battles Report post #320 Posted January 23, 2020 5 hours ago, Captain_Newman said: We've seen what your nerfs are like - inadequate where needed (Kremlin), absolutely butchering a ship and the way it's played otherwise (YY, Henri). Again, I ask you - do you (people at WG) consider torp boats as OP and overperforming? They said DDs would do more flooding damage after the flooding nerf. Has anyone received a Liquidator achievement since then? Or Unsinkable? Flooding used to be dangerous (I once sank a genius Yamato player with 2 torpedo hits in staggered launch), now it's only a minor nuisance when you want to go faster. 5 hours ago, genosse said: Hm, a lot of valid concerns in this thread, but I was wondering: Do you plan on using the new module on your BBs? I use the acquisition mod on my full secondary IFHE GK, Tirpitz and Bismarck. I might go for concealment after the change because I lose the 3 km spotting advantage against smoked DDs. 7 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[R3B3L] HystericalAccuracy Players 1,505 posts 40,402 battles Report post #321 Posted January 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Ze_Reckless said: They said DDs would do more flooding damage after the flooding nerf. 1 hour ago, Ze_Reckless said: Has anyone received a Liquidator achievement since then? not me 1 hour ago, Ze_Reckless said: Or Unsinkable? nope 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[4_0_4] Zemeritt Players 9,337 posts 16,212 battles Report post #322 Posted January 24, 2020 14 hours ago, MrConway said: After having looked at our test results we didn't see a strong reason not to proceed with the module as planned. Let me guess. You tested this module with the 20km Shima torps? You never tested DWT ships against this module? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[PEZ] Yedwy Players 11,301 posts 39,576 battles Report post #323 Posted January 24, 2020 13 hours ago, genosse said: I am actually also pretty happy about the module rework, because some of them were just pointless and nobody ever took them, but: Why did the devs work with a fixed range of 1.8 km? So much frustration could have been avoided, if it was just a percentage increase to torp spotting - a shame, really. Becouse they have a thing called Ashashio in the game Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[M-P-M] Migantium_Mashum Players 3,146 posts 19,218 battles Report post #324 Posted January 24, 2020 19 hours ago, Europizza said: Same strong reasons you guys didn't see to proceed with the carrier rework I'm sure * (Lets not forget the massive flooding nerf that came with it) This annoys me more than anything.... 13 torpedo hits on 4 ships and only 1 single flood... other games no floods... A torpedo, when it hits the ship, rips a big 'profanity' hole in its side so: HOW CAN THERE BE NO 'PROFANITY' FLOODS?? If a BB shell can cause a citadel or critical hit and even disable a gun then your idea of reducing the flood risk for torpedoes strikes is utter 'profanity'.... Tell your Johnny 10 year old that this game is supposed to be a competitive game and if he wants to cry because he gets hurt too much he should go back to playing MINECRAFT. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[FABER] Bics93 [FABER] Players 617 posts 6,307 battles Report post #325 Posted January 24, 2020 15 ore fa, Toxoplasmosi ha scritto: @MrConway Would you please adjust the rotation speed of the turrets of the premium RU DD (Leningrad, Okotnik...)? And give them and to all others RU DDs some DD appearance? They are sooooo spottable, they shoot sooooooo slowly, they have slooooow and short torpedoes and do little damage. Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease! Please!... please... пожалуйста Uh? If you want to spot and torp things, probably russian DDs are not the right choice, try the Gearing line: you will find good torps and fast rotating turrets there 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
