Returning CV player...wtf happend to CVs?

[Kasseopea]

Hi. I know that there is a big thread about it, but it didn't feel like a personal discussion fit there.

 

I've played the game a while ago and enjoyed playing CVs. It took a long time to set up your fliers in the right position, you couldn't facetank clusters of ships and you were looking for stragglers to catch off-guard. And, at least on the IJN line, i couldn't do anything against destroyers. But it felt great to drop two sets of torpedos and take out a BB or an enemy CV.

 

Then I've decided to return and try the game again. Started with my Hosho and...well:

 

- Rockets deal 200-500 damage tops, 3000 with a citadel hit

- Bombs deal maybe 2000 damage and light one fire at best

- Torpedos...no lead and only 2 of them means they sail by most of the time they aren't point blank. And if they hit, they deal like 4000-5000 damage and cause flooding once in maybe 5-7 cases

 

Not only that, each of my squads survives *at best* one assault, even if it's just one BB.

 

I wasn't able to sink even one ship in six matches and at this point i'm just feeling like a brainlet that doesn't see something obvious. Did people just cry about CVs being unfair until they got nerfed into the ground?

[ForlornSailor]

1 minute ago, Kasseopea said:

Then I've decided to return and try the game again. Started with my Hosho and...well:

 

- Rockets deal 200-500 damage tops, 3000 with a citadel hit 

- Bombs deal maybe 2000 damage and light one fire at best

- Torpedos...no lead and only 2 of them means they sail by most of the time they aren't point blank. And if they hit, they deal like 4000-5000 damage and cause flooding once in maybe 5-7 cases

 

Not only that, each of my squads survives *at best* one assault, even if it's just one BB.

 

I wasn't able to sink even one ship in six matches and at this point i'm just feeling like a brainlet that doesn't see something obvious. Did people just cry about CVs being unfair until they got nerfed into the ground?

 

Nerfed? CVs are as powerful as never before. btw: with Hosho you are playing one of the currently most OP CVs. Its literally a seal clubbing tool destroying an entire tier range.

[Kasseopea]

6 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Nerfed? CVs are as powerful as never before. btw: with Hosho you are playing one of the currently most OP CVs. Its literally a seal clubbing tool destroying an entire tier range.

Ok, then what am I doing wrong? My torpedos deal less damage than a main battery of any normal ship and the rest doesn't seem to do anything of significance at all.

[piet11111]

Timing so floods stick ?

Im not a good carrier player.

[kapnobathrac]

watch some YT videos and you will slowly begin to grasp how to play it. If other players can rack up the damage numbers then so can you

[Xevious_Red]

Hosho's strength is torps - lead your target, dodge the black clouds. Trigger the attack early enough that the reticle settles and becomes as tight as possible. The line is where the torps will "activate" so try to get this as close as possible. Dodge the black clouds as your planes come out the other side.

 

If not under heavy AA (look at planes health bars changing colour) then swing around (still avoiding those black flak clouds) and repeat the strike. You want to be aiming for broadside, and for obvious reasons BB and slow cruisers are the easiest targets.

 

If under heavy AA then bail the squadron (press F) and launch a fresh squadron. If you keep plane losses to a minimum you can pretty much permanently cycle squadrons of torp bombers.

[Kasseopea]

http://prntscr.com/qk0u38

 

Actually had a decent match...Hmm. Seems like you are meant to make suicide runs with your fliers and then just cycle them through, as they replenish. I still enjoyed the 8-torpedo-pincering of BBs...but oh well...

1 minute ago, Xevious_Red said:

Hosho's strength is torps - lead your target, dodge the black clouds. Trigger the attack early enough that the reticle settles and becomes as tight as possible. The line is where the torps will "activate" so try to get this as close as possible. Dodge the black clouds as your planes come out the other side.

 

If not under heavy AA (look at planes health bars changing colour) then swing around (still avoiding those black flak clouds) and repeat the strike. You want to be aiming for broadside, and for obvious reasons BB and slow cruisers are the easiest targets.

 

If under heavy AA then bail the squadron (press F) and launch a fresh squadron. If you keep plane losses to a minimum you can pretty much permanently cycle squadrons of torp bombers.

Yeah...tho 2 torpedos per salvo feel like a joke. Does it improve for the IJN line? I just love the feeling of shotgunning somebody out of position and atm 9.000 damage max don't quite do that.

[veslingr]

30 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Nerfed? CVs are as powerful as never before. 

Stats would call this statement as not true. Where RTS cv still are dominating this new one in stats. We can talk why is that so and quality of players and potential but the fact is RTS cvs dominates this new ones. 

[Xevious_Red]

1 minute ago, Kasseopea said:

 

Yeah...tho 2 torpedos per salvo feel like a joke. Does it improve for the IJN line? I just love the feeling of shotgunning somebody out of position and atm 9.000 damage max don't quite do that.

IJN have 2 torps all the way through, even up to tier X. They have the fastest and strongest torps of all the lines though.

The other strength of IJN is they have AP bombs. If aimed badly they bounce, or overpen for very little damage. They also don't start fires. However if aimed well they do citadel damage which is much harder to repair. For this reason IJN can do damage that "sticks" and are generally considered the line with the most alpha damage.

 

The change brought carriers away from the one strike kill and into multiple strikes. They can still achieve excellent damage levels, but they wont get it all in one strike.

[Pivke]

19 minutes ago, Kasseopea said:

I've played the game a while ago and enjoyed playing CVs. It took a long time to set up your fliers in the right position, you couldn't facetank clusters of ships and you were looking for stragglers to catch off-guard. And, at least on the IJN line, i couldn't do anything against destroyers.

......

Not only that, each of my squads survives *at best* one assault, even if it's just one BB.

rejoice, my dear carrier enthusiast!

now any carrier eats destroyers for breakfast, while also spotting the entire map for your teammates to shoot at enemy.

 

oh and another bonus

your planes can safely facetank anything :D

AA is set up that no matter what is shooting at you, planes only start dying after they dropped their load on the target.

no fear! you drop on a close formation of 2 Des Moines and a Minotaur with the same effectiveness as dropping on a lonely T4 battleship with next to zero AA rating.

[Kasseopea]

Just now, Xevious_Red said:

IJN have 2 torps all the way through, even up to tier X. They have the fastest and strongest torps of all the lines though.

The other strength of IJN is they have AP bombs. If aimed badly they bounce, or overpen for very little damage. They also don't start fires. However if aimed well they do citadel damage which is much harder to repair. For this reason IJN can do damage that "sticks" and are generally considered the line with the most alpha damage.

 

The change brought carriers away from the one strike kill and into multiple strikes. They can still achieve excellent damage levels, but they wont get it all in one strike.

I just looked through the lines and only Midway can crap out more than 2-3 measly torps per attack...wow...

As for citadel damage...Yes, but it's like 3000 on a BB. Which, you know, has 40k+ at that tier. It feels more like licking them to death than actually dropping damage.

 

3 minutes ago, Pivke said:

rejoice, my dear carrier enthusiast!

now any carrier eats destroyers for breakfast, while also spotting the entire map for your teammates to shoot at enemy.

 

oh and another bonus

your planes can safely facetank anything :D

AA is set up that no matter what is shooting at you, planes only start dying after they dropped their load on the target.

no fear! you drop on a close formation of 2 Des Moines and a Minotaur with the same effectiveness as dropping on a lonely T4 battleship with next to zero AA rating.

Uhhh...are you sure? Because I'm fairly certain my planes got shredded a few times while approaching.

[Yedwy]

5 minutes ago, Pivke said:

AA is set up that no matter what is shooting at you, planes only start dying after they dropped their load on the target.

no fear! you drop on a close formation of 2 Des Moines and a Minotaur with the same effectiveness as dropping on a lonely T4 battleship with next to zero AA rating.

Oh come on, what a load of BS...

[veslingr]

6 minutes ago, Pivke said:

rejoice, my dear carrier enthusiast!

now any carrier eats destroyers for breakfast, while also spotting the entire map for your teammates to shoot at enemy.

 

oh and another bonus

your planes can safely facetank anything :D

AA is set up that no matter what is shooting at you, planes only start dying after they dropped their load on the target.

no fear! you drop on a close formation of 2 Des Moines and a Minotaur with the same effectiveness as dropping on a lonely T4 battleship with next to zero AA 

Dont forget I WIN button that randomly kills enemie player with highest stats. 

[Pivke]

2 minutes ago, veslingr said:

Dont forget I WIN button that randomly kills enemie player with highest stats. 

thats sadly not possible...

enemy player with highest stats is also a carrier duh!

and he has planes to protect himself :D that is about the only target you cannot kill with impunity.

[Redcap375]

1 hour ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Nerfed? CVs are as powerful as never before. btw: with Hosho you are playing one of the currently most OP CVs. Its literally a seal clubbing tool destroying an entire tier range.

 

This^^

 

OP.....

 

You remember when you lost ALL your planes when trying to torp a single Des with tier 8 torp planes? Well now you can just hit him regarless of how much AA and defensive AA he has. 

 

And with AP bombs, he is halfed within one run 

 

Oh and your planes don't even scatter when defensive AA is one. Ho ho ho

 

Oh wait for it, you can now throw rockets into DD faces without them being able to do squat.  Remember when you had to pray on the RNG gods if you auto aimed or be that 2% unicum that could hit bombs using Manuel aim. Now you just hit him as long as you fingers on the keyboard and mouse.

 

Welcome back mate.

 

 

[siraiaw]

it is interesting to hear about the view of the new cvs from someone who has only just tried the new cvs, and cvs are more based on hitting the same target multible times, and generally being an annoyance, than actually having the ability to carry games, also cvs cannot attack enemy cvs anymore, witch is stupid

[Panocek]

CV REEEworked gameplay devolved into constant throwing  at the red ones while weaving between flak bursts.

 

29 minutes ago, Kasseopea said:

I just looked through the lines and only Midway can crap out more than 2-3 measly torps per attack...wow...

As for citadel damage...Yes, but it's like 3000 on a BB. Which, you know, has 40k+ at that tier. It feels more like licking them to death than actually dropping damage.

While Midway have potentially the highest damage per torpedo run, aiming time and overall handling of these TB is... questionable. In comparison, Haku twin TB are joy to handle and drop stuff with.

 

And Hosho AP bombs are hilariously bad, thats why you keep throwing torps left right and center. From tier 8 AP bombs turn into borderline gamebreaking "feature", able to shave half of the cruiser hp in one pass, assuming all three bombs hit in citadel.

[siraiaw]

2 minutes ago, Panocek said:

CV REEEworked gameplay devolved into constant throwing  at the red ones while weaving between flak bursts.

 

While Midway have potentially the highest damage per torpedo run, aiming time and overall handling of these TB is... questionable. In comparison, Haku twin TB are joy to handle and drop stuff with.

 

And Hosho AP bombs are hilariously bad, thats why you keep throwing torps left right and center. From tier 8 AP bombs turn into borderline gamebreaking "feature", able to shave half of the cruiser hp in one pass, assuming all three bombs hit in citadel.

and then there is enterprise, if you are up against it you can more or less surrender if you are at the same level as your opponent, if you are a lot better than the enterprise player you may possibly have a slight chance of maybe winning

[Kasseopea]

11 minutes ago, Redcap375 said:

 

This^^

 

OP.....

 

You remember when you lost ALL your planes when trying to torp a single Des with tier 8 torp planes? Well now you can just hit him regarless of how much AA and defensive AA he has. 

 

And with AP bombs, he is halfed within one run 

 

Oh and your planes don't even scatter when defensive AA is one. Ho ho ho

 

Oh wait for it, you can now throw rockets into DD faces without them being able to do squat.  Remember when you had to pray on the RNG gods if you auto aimed or be that 2% unicum that could hit bombs using Manuel aim. Now you just hit him as long as you fingers on the keyboard and mouse.

 

Welcome back mate.

 

 

Mmmmh...fair enough. I enjoyed the high risk high reward playstyle more, but oh well^^

 

6 minutes ago, Panocek said:

CV REEEworked gameplay devolved into constant throwing  at the red ones while weaving between flak bursts.

 

While Midway have potentially the highest damage per torpedo run, aiming time and overall handling of these TB is... questionable. In comparison, Haku twin TB are joy to handle and drop stuff with.

 

And Hosho AP bombs are hilariously bad, thats why you keep throwing torps left right and center. From tier 8 AP bombs turn into borderline gamebreaking "feature", able to shave half of the cruiser hp in one pass, assuming all three bombs hit in citadel.

Good to know, then i guess i just gotta grind on XD

[Panocek]

Just now, Kasseopea said:

Mmmmh...fair enough. I enjoyed the high risk high reward playstyle more, but oh well^^

 

Good to know, then i guess i just gotta grind on XD

Get tier 6, where you actually might bump into actual AA to practice flak evasion and target selection. And then you can bring Ryujo into PvE operations as well.

Or just set up training room against tier 4-5 ships with "long range AA" present and notice correlation between fancy black puffs and planes dying

 

Just now, siraiaw said:

and then there is enterprise, if you are up against it you can more or less surrender if you are at the same level as your opponent, if you are a lot better than the enterprise player you may possibly have a slight chance of maybe winning

Its not like Enterprise was turned into "Belfast tier" by accident when she was repeatedly buffed over and over and over again

 

Even more so as 0.8.7 also removed whole "lower tier planes" balancing feature from Kaga as well, which if not for overall lacking rockets and so-so dive bombers would be just as balans.

[Bear__Necessities]

40 minutes ago, Kasseopea said:

As for citadel damage...Yes, but it's like 3000 on a BB

Dude, AP bombs on Hosho are broken A/F

 

[Panocek]

4 minutes ago, Bear_Necessities said:

Dude, AP bombs on Hosho are broken A/F

Whole ship, combined with lack of effective AA is broken A/F

[Bear__Necessities]

Just now, Panocek said:

Whole ship, combined with lack of effective AA is broken A/F

Clearly not everyone got that memo....

[Panocek]

1 minute ago, Bear_Necessities said:

Clearly not everyone got that memo....

Just like showing broadside = bad memo?

[Redcap375]

18 hours ago, Kasseopea said:

Mmmmh...fair enough. I enjoyed the high risk high reward playstyle more, but oh well^^

 

Mate, oh so did I.  But things have changed alot.

 

The risk and team support is all taken out of it now.  Just the way it is. 

 

They wanted CV's to be easy mode to bring more CV players into the game (which they have).  If players lost buckets of planes like they used to with few reserves then these kinda people wouldn't play them.

 

So they HAD to make it easier for people to play.  And here we are.

 

You will always hit something regardless of AA, even if you only get one run (before a single ship could wipe 3 wings out). Only if 3 ships are close to eachother then the Planes might not get a look in and die before the drop, depending on the type of plane and how much defensive AA is going on. 

 

Fully active AA build Des and enemy CV's can still get 2 drops on me. With Enterprise AP bombs that's deadly, never mind tier 10 Haka ones.

 

Again, that's just the way it is.