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Luke6_31

Indomitable: Worth it?

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Just seen this CV appear in the shop. Does anyone have any thoughts or advice about it at the moment? Was hoping to get it but previous test iterations seemed somewhat flawed. If anyone has anything useful to help me out it would be good to hear it.

 

Thanks

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Worst T8 CV. Struggles against anything ith more than 32 mm of armour and is even among the most impotent at dealing with targets that are below that.

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[LEEUW]
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I disagree. Indomitable is very good at farming DOT with permafires. Your planes are fast and have a lot of health, the rockets and bombs are 'decent' and your fire chance rounds off a pretty potent package. However, she is limited because of her low pen, few aircraft and lack of torpedo bombers.

 

I'm not saying she's the best tier VIII CV (far from it) but she is more than capable of holding her own.

Conclusion: She's limited, but potent. More of a niche if you already have better CV's like Kaga (or Enterprise)

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Another question could be why someone would buy this cv if they already have GZ, Enterprise, Saipan and Kaga (collector  point of view is neglected)?

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[UAC]
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6 minutes ago, L8viathan said:

Another question could be why someone would buy this cv if they already have GZ, Enterprise, Saipan and Kaga (collector  point of view is neglected)?

That's the thing....

                                you wouldn't.

:Smile_trollface:

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[DSOTF]
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Indeed. The collector in me says "Buy it!" because she is very special. But if you want to win games? Why would you choose a CV with such a lack of alpha damage potential? I just saw a YT video with a >200k game but 0 kills, the CV attacking a T8 BB a dozen times but not killing it. If you are in a close game and still have some healthy opponents you're screwed.

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[LAFIE]
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On 1/3/2020 at 7:09 AM, Luke6_31 said:

Just seen this CV appear in the shop. Does anyone have any thoughts or advice about it at the moment? Was hoping to get it but previous test iterations seemed somewhat flawed. If anyone has anything useful to help me out it would be good to hear it.

Short answer: No.

 

Long answer: Lol, no.

 

Just to clarify, the lack of TB's essentially kills her.

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On 1/3/2020 at 7:52 PM, _NLForces_ said:

I disagree. Indomitable is very good at farming DOT with permafires. Your planes are fast and have a lot of health, the rockets and bombs are 'decent' and your fire chance rounds off a pretty potent package. However, she is limited because of her low pen, few aircraft and lack of torpedo bombers.

 

I'm not saying she's the best tier VIII CV (far from it) but she is more than capable of holding her own.

Conclusion: She's limited, but potent. More of a niche if you already have better CV's like Kaga (or Enterprise)

  1. DoT damage is the most inconsequential damage. Unless a ship is insanely good at farming DoT damage, it is not going to carry games. Even stuff like Smolensk or Conqueror have things going for them besides the DoT, which is great dpm and silly survivability.
  2. If you are just farming DoTs, speed is one of the less useful characteristics. You can farm DoT even with slow planes, especially when you coordinate your efforts with your team to take on what they are shooting at. Given DoT effects stay even without planes dishing it out every so often, DoT is less reliant on fast planes than alpha-focused ships. There's a reason you can farm DoT just fine in Implacable.
  3. Good hp with low reserves is overall the most vulnerable combination there is. For one, it punishes mistakes harder, but also it makes you more vulnerable to fighter planes and as we saw from 0.8.0 to 0.8.7, every AA change that made AA more potent made life much harder for those who relied on high individual plane hp, not on spammable planes. At the height of the AA power, Enterprise and Kaga were far more dominant compared to their peers. With them, you can also just attack into (non-Enterprise) fighters, if you have to, because even if 5 out of 12 planes die, if you can secure an important kill with the rest, might be worth it. With Indomitable, you basically lose 5 planes and are screwed.
  4. The hp comparison becomes also a bit less favourable when you consider that Indomitable lacks the only plane type that gets a repair party.
  5. Being more limited, having crap reserves and being reliant on DoT damage that is basically farmed on BBs, because no other class takes heavy DoT damage, Indomitable is annoying, but certainly not potent. Especially when you consider the following: In which ship would you actually fear a competent Indomitable more than any other competent CV? Any DD? Yeah, no, the Indomitable rockets aren't good and the bombs are garbage for anti-DD work. Cruisers? The only other CV that cannot do heavy damage on cruisers with bombs is Implacable. Rest will nuke you with AP or heavy HE DBs even if you are a 50 mm deck Russian. Implacable has torps though and few cruisers have good torp protection. BBs? Anything with more than 32 mm deck basically just takes DoT damage from fires. And when you are something like a Monarch, taking bomb and fire damage from Indomitable, which is 75-100% healable it is so much better than taking torpedo damage or AP bomb cits, both which you have crap protection against and which are 10% healable, negating an important strength of your ship. Not to mention, a fighter squad can potentially put an end to a bomber wing, you cannot say the same about other CVs.

It just is the worst T8 CV. By a lot.

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[OCTO]
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It's got less tools in the tool box and the carpet bombers are so insanely inaccurate to be reliable.  Make the DB dispersion like Lexington and it would be twice as fun.  It seems like it's an attempt to move CVs into a support role.  You can't bully any ships with the Indominatable like you can with ANY IJN, Enterprise, etc, but you can cover the map very quickly to drop fighters, spot and do chip damage.  I don't regret getting it, but you're better off with any of the other premiums.  

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[TORAZ]
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The short answer is no.

 

The long answer is if you like to farm damage while having little influence over the outcome of the match, Indomitable might be the ship for you. If you like to actually win then you should look elsewhere.

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Farm damage, yes she can do it better than the stock T8 Brit CV.

 

Hmm... might not be a end match winner in terms of lack of torps. But she is pretty good at making ships waste their regens putting fires out. Which can have an effect later in the game when they run out of regens and get spammed by cruisers with HE

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On 1/8/2020 at 12:35 AM, GTB1964 said:

Farm damage, yes she can do it better than the stock T8 Brit CV.

 

Hmm... might not be a end match winner in terms of lack of torps. But she is pretty good at making ships waste their regens putting fires out. Which can have an effect later in the game when they run out of regens and get spammed by cruisers with HE

Actually, I'm not sure she is better than Implacable for it. Sure, Implacable has slower planes, but:

  • DoT is by its very nature less dependant on fast planes than alpha-heavy approaches
  • Torps adds another potent source of DoT, as well as of universally applicable alpha damage.

And pretty much only Russian BBs "run out" of damage control party. Meanwhile anything with AP bombs will just citadel the crap out of them. And when an Enterprise can just take out 25k in a drop instantly and only 10% repairable, that's vastly more potent than one damecon wasted (which also wastes your time, btw, as you could strike better targets meanwhile).

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[FJAKA]
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 If you like it - buy it. 

 

They told me GZ sucks and still I can win in it. 

 

Not everything in this game should revolve what is absolutely the best thing. If it brings you fun take it  

 

And still if played right she (as GZ for me) can bring you wins. 

 

 

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32 minutes ago, For_Troy said:

according to wows-numbers.com its the best tier 8 cv

No it's not, I don't care what the numbers say. Maybe the numbers are up right now because it's being played a lot as a new CV at minute.

 

I have it, and 99% of the time, even with armour and extra HP added to the planes. You usually get 1 attack run and and that's it each time. And while the planes are fast, the lack of torps does start to limit the amount of damage you can do in a match. I bought the KAGA last week and have been playing both CV's. In the KAGA I can usually get 2 attacks in with each squad, and having them 4 torps makes a massive difference. Been doing far better in the KAGA than in the Brit CV. And it gets a bit annoying with the Brit CV that nearly every single time, you only get 1 attack in before the planes are all killed.

 

If you don't mind sending a plane squad out knowing it'll only get 1 attack run in 99% of the time. Then play it, but it starts to get boring knowing each time you'll only get 1 attack chance before all the planes are shot out the sky fast due to them being bigger planes than the norm, and you having a small plane squad. And there is a lack of variety with it not having torp planes that gets boring as well

 

But the planes need a buff

 

 

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14 hours ago, For_Troy said:

according to wows-numbers.com its the best tier 8 cv

 

because it includes testing stats from better versions. In fact, the averages dropped a lot since Indomitable released, they were already higher and are now approaching the garbage spot it actually holds.

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[LO1]
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Been playing her for 17 games averaging about 65k damage, and at mo 65% WR.

 

Now first thing is if your on a game that has a derp team thats going to fold in 5 mins, no matter how fast your planes are, that game your going to do fek all damage, game is going to be over before you can rack up some perma fires. long games your going to fair better in the damage game... But as said above if your looking to change the course of a battle not easy to do... i am sure some games my planes are ignored due to the small first strike damage.

 

This also brings up the problem of your team wanting you to scout, but in your head you need to get the fires on a target and get back fast to get anouther to stick... the DDs in your team will be constant wanting AA support ( not that fighters are much good if you know how to counter them ) and all the island hiding team m8s just want your to fly in circles spotting for them.

 

But i am injoying gettting to grips with the Planes, maybe they should of put toprs on her, even if they was weak damage and maybe high flood chance!

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Wait till you get to around 40 or 50 games in it. You'll be bored to death of playing it without torps and seeing all planes usually killed after 1 attack run.

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On 1/5/2020 at 1:51 AM, Grobi69 said:

Indeed. The collector in me says "Buy it!" because she is very special. But if you want to win games? Why would you choose a CV with such a lack of alpha damage potential? I just saw a YT video with a >200k game but 0 kills, the CV attacking a T8 BB a dozen times but not killing it. If you are in a close game and still have some healthy opponents you're screwed.

Yup it's more team dependent CV. So I play it with division providing fast spotting for them and fast killing off targets. 

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