Sprint 10 - Statistics - Graf Zep was Not the best

[Puffin_]

https://wows-numbers.com/season/110,Sprint-10/

 

[TohtoriP]

The most interesting thing is the huge huge variance in win rates for ships here. From 18.83% to 70.31%. Guess one can say that boats are not balanced for 1v1 and that is very good but still that variance is massive in my opinion.

[Puffin_]

And some Carriers did not that great after all

https://wows-numbers.com/season/110,Sprint-10/

 

[Captain_Newman]

Enterprise was just the "I win" button. Keep in mind that a lot of people are having disconnects there, which may have affected it's wr. Mine would have been about 90% without 4 dc caused losses...

[black_falcon120]

12 minutes ago, Captain_Newman said:

Enterprise was just the "I win" button. Keep in mind that a lot of people are having disconnects there, which may have affected it's wr. Mine would have been about 90% without 4 dc caused losses...

I mean any carrier was an I win button against anything other than a CV or BB....

 

also I found the implacable a good ship...

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

There also have been many many losers this sprint looking at the 'I love this sprint look at my winrate' posts. I think not losing a star actually made a big difference in lowering the frustration levels. 

[Lieut_Gruber]

1 hour ago, Puffin_ said:

https://wows-numbers.com/season/110,Sprint-10/

 

German bias!!! Omg WG......

[aboomination]

FFS I threw one match in the Mass, which maybe made the difference here :D

[ForlornSailor]

2 hours ago, Puffin_ said:

And some Carriers did not that great after all

 

Weeeell... within a class I wouldnt pay too much attention on winrates of individual ships. Here is the thing: good CV players have access to many CVs. Most of them have either Enterprise or GZ. And they will ofc use one of them, because they are suited better for a 1x1 then Kaga or Implacable. Now the rather not so good guys might not have access to all CVs so they go with what they got - which might just be Implacable, f.e, which makes sense, since that CV was easy access during the introduction of RN CV line. So yea, by all means, Implacable is rather a bad pick for 1x1 but with more capable captains playing her, her WR would sure be higher.

[Beastofwar]

These stats are of little worth if you don't know against WHAT ships those ships performed so well.

 

I mean Massachussets against Massachussets won't result in 65 % WR. Same for Enterprise against Enterprise. And so on and so on.

 

It seems to have more to do with what populair premiums  clubbed tech tree ships, as these are not among the purple stat performers.

 

 

 

 

[Captain_Newman]

34 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

These stats are of little worth if you don't know against WHAT ships those ships performed so well.

 

I mean Massachussets against Massachussets won't result in 65 % WR. Same for Enterprise against Enterprise. And so on and so on.

 

It seems to have more to do with what populair premiums  clubbed tech tree ships, as these are not among the purple stat performers.

 

 

 

 

 

It tells you which ships have more or less counters, and which ships counter more or less other types of ships. So it comes as no surprise that the Enterprise took #1 place. Yes, you will get mirror MM sometimes, but that's the minority of games, most of the times you will fight other ship types and classes.

[Ze_Reckless]

Look at the top players, a couple of Enterprise and GZ have 100% WR to rank 1. 3 Tirpitz and 1 Massa achieved that as well. Enterprise has the most players with top win rates by far (relative to how many people played her).

The average results of CVs are only bad because most players are bad.

[creamgravy]

Check out the player who has 450 games in Asashio, 0.22% WR! Must be a bot right?

[TheBrut3]

I've encounterd 2 CV's in my games. A GZ and i think it was an Implacable, i won both. 

[El2aZeR]

1 hour ago, Beastofwar said:

These stats are of little worth if you don't know against WHAT ships those ships performed so well.

 

Except that is not how statistics work.

If e.g. a Massa encounters a Massa that will result in a 50% total WR, this much is true.

However that also means they're automatically eliminated from the equation as the encounters against other ships will inevitably shift the number upwards or downwards, aka the deviation from 50% yields conclusive performance data.

 

This is e.g. also why WR is a representative statistic in judging your skill if you have a sufficient sample size of matches as the amount of default losses and wins inevitably normalize towards 50%. Any deviation from 50% therefore is the result of your own skill.

[HaachamaShipping]

1 hour ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Weeeell... within a class I wouldnt pay too much attention on winrates of individual ships. Here is the thing: good CV players have access to many CVs. Most of them have either Enterprise or GZ. And they will ofc use one of them, because they are suited better for a 1x1 then Kaga or Implacable. Now the rather not so good guys might not have access to all CVs so they go with what they got - which might just be Implacable, f.e, which makes sense, since that CV was easy access during the introduction of RN CV line. So yea, by all means, Implacable is rather a bad pick for 1x1 but with more capable captains playing her, her WR would sure be higher.

I would rather say, good players will either take Enty or GZ if they have that, or if they have to go non-prem, they go Lexington or Shokaku. Kaga is not unsuitable for 1v1. In fact, I'd consider it decent enough, because you have fast torp bombers that drop 4 torps and insane reserves, so if you don't throw your planes away on flak, outtrading other CVs shouldn't be hard. In Kaga's case, I'd say the WR might be down to the fact that Kaga might just be mostly in the hands of people who have mulriple options and rather go for another P2W (in this mode) CV and Kaga often gets advertised as the noob CV so not very good players might own the ship.

 

Implacable... frankly, Implacable is a CV, but I would not think any CV player with any idea of how this mode works for CVs would call Implacable a good ship for this mode. So, the amount of people who play this ship and still do well is pretty small.

3 hours ago, black_falcon120 said:

I mean any carrier was an I win button against anything other than a CV or BB....

 

also I found the implacable a good ship...

See, Implacable can still crap on cruiser or DD, but the matchup vs BB or CV is basically the worst for the Implacable if the enemy isn't a terrible player. No other CV has it as terrible as the Implacable against these ships, except maybe Saipan vs CV. Implacable rocket planes are good to kill DDs and can kill cruisers, but have 27 mm of pen, so BBs can just laugh at you. They also are slow, so dpm is bad. The torp bombers throw 2 torps, which is Shokaku levels, but the torps are worse. Also, the planes are slow, so dpm is bad. The bombers are good against Monarch, Richelieu, Gascogne, Vanguard and CVs, but with 32 mm pen, the Tirpitz and Bismarck basically just take fire damage, Russians will just damecon if they feel threatened, Massa will absolutely laugh at you. Also, the bombers are slow, so dpm is bad. Implacable is already a questionable CV for randoms, due to its reliance on DoT to deal with most targets, but in a mode where killing fast is essential, this is the worst CV there is. Not to mention, short of Saipan no other T8 CV is as gimped when it loses its planes to the CV CAP, something that'll happen inevitably for Implacable, as your planes are too slow to even outrun the GZ CAP.

 

It says a lot when you look at the players of Enterprise, GZ and Implacable next to each other and then compare battles played, WR and plane kills. Implacable has basically the least people who played 35+ battles (necessary to primarily rank out in the ship), insane WR and high average plane kills (indicating matchup vs enemy CVs).

[ForlornSailor]

9 minutes ago, Sleepy_Bunny said:

I would not think any CV player with any idea of how this mode works for CVs would call Implacable a good ship for this mode. So, the amount of people who play this ship and still do well is pretty small.

 

That was pretty much what I was trying to say ^^

 

 

[LordTareq]

4 hours ago, Puffin_ said:

And some Carriers did not that great after all

https://wows-numbers.com/season/110,Sprint-10/

 

Lol those Kaga players should be ashamed of themselves 

[black_falcon120]

1 hour ago, Sleepy_Bunny said:

I would rather say, good players will either take Enty or GZ if they have that, or if they have to go non-prem, they go Lexington or Shokaku. Kaga is not unsuitable for 1v1. In fact, I'd consider it decent enough, because you have fast torp bombers that drop 4 torps and insane reserves, so if you don't throw your planes away on flak, outtrading other CVs shouldn't be hard. In Kaga's case, I'd say the WR might be down to the fact that Kaga might just be mostly in the hands of people who have mulriple options and rather go for another P2W (in this mode) CV and Kaga often gets advertised as the noob CV so not very good players might own the ship.

 

Implacable... frankly, Implacable is a CV, but I would not think any CV player with any idea of how this mode works for CVs would call Implacable a good ship for this mode. So, the amount of people who play this ship and still do well is pretty small.

See, Implacable can still crap on cruiser or DD, but the matchup vs BB or CV is basically the worst for the Implacable if the enemy isn't a terrible player. No other CV has it as terrible as the Implacable against these ships, except maybe Saipan vs CV. Implacable rocket planes are good to kill DDs and can kill cruisers, but have 27 mm of pen, so BBs can just laugh at you. They also are slow, so dpm is bad. The torp bombers throw 2 torps, which is Shokaku levels, but the torps are worse. Also, the planes are slow, so dpm is bad. The bombers are good against Monarch, Richelieu, Gascogne, Vanguard and CVs, but with 32 mm pen, the Tirpitz and Bismarck basically just take fire damage, Russians will just damecon if they feel threatened, Massa will absolutely laugh at you. Also, the bombers are slow, so dpm is bad. Implacable is already a questionable CV for randoms, due to its reliance on DoT to deal with most targets, but in a mode where killing fast is essential, this is the worst CV there is. Not to mention, short of Saipan no other T8 CV is as gimped when it loses its planes to the CV CAP, something that'll happen inevitably for Implacable, as your planes are too slow to even outrun the GZ CAP.

 

It says a lot when you look at the players of Enterprise, GZ and Implacable next to each other and then compare battles played, WR and plane kills. Implacable has basically the least people who played 35+ battles (necessary to primarily rank out in the ship), insane WR and high average plane kills (indicating matchup vs enemy CVs).

No, the implac has it the best against other CVs because they cannot steer out of carpet bombings or hold onto damage control, but otherwise I agree

[HaachamaShipping]

7 minutes ago, black_falcon120 said:

No, the implac has it the best against other CVs because they cannot steer out of carpet bombings or hold onto damage control, but otherwise I agree

And you are going to steer out of a Lexington/Kaga drop or any torp drop with your auto-piloted CV that has crap turning qualities? Or dodge the hail of rockets the Lexington and Enterprise can throw at you?

 

Let's be real, no CV is ever going to dodge another CV attack unless it was absolutely poorly executed. The difference between something like Implacable and, let's say, GZ is, that GZ can just spam torps at you with planes that fly at over 200 knots and fly far more attacks whily causing floods, while you try to keep up with bombers that boosted get the base speed of GZ TBs and at best set 7 sec fires. If the GZ isn't stupid and keeps a distance, Implacable is toast. The sole CV you might outtrade is the Shokaku, if it doesn't get cits. But apart from that, pretty much every CV has more dpm to throw at you than you can throw back, especially once the plane losses kick in.

[black_falcon120]

5 minutes ago, Sleepy_Bunny said:

And you are going to steer out of a Lexington/Kaga drop or any torp drop with your auto-piloted CV that has crap turning qualities? Or dodge the hail of rockets the Lexington and Enterprise can throw at you?

 

Let's be real, no CV is ever going to dodge another CV attack unless it was absolutely poorly executed. The difference between something like Implacable and, let's say, GZ is, that GZ can just spam torps at you with planes that fly at over 200 knots and fly far more attacks whily causing floods, while you try to keep up with bombers that boosted get the base speed of GZ TBs and at best set 7 sec fires. If the GZ isn't stupid and keeps a distance, Implacable is toast. The sole CV you might outtrade is the Shokaku, if it doesn't get cits. But apart from that, pretty much every CV has more dpm to throw at you than you can throw back, especially once the plane losses kick in.

True, but the aiming reticule of the uk CVs is Much longer than others, and also the damage control changes mean CVs can’t mitigate DoT as much.

 

btw I beat an enterprise with stock inimitable with a unallocated captain.

[Verblonde]

4 hours ago, Europizza said:

I think not losing a star actually made a big difference in lowering the frustration levels.

This.

 

With a single move, WG made the mode fun for me; that same move though removes any meaning to making any given rank (especially if you own Tirp or similar). I still maintain that this might be the way forward for regular ranked, but with the key rewards/kudos being awarded for speed to ranks, rather than simply reaching the ranks regardless of speed.

[HaachamaShipping]

Just now, black_falcon120 said:

True, but the aiming reticule of the uk CVs is Much longer than others, and also the damage control changes mean CVs can’t mitigate DoT as much.

And how does a longer reticule help? Basically, the only thing you can hope for is that the enemy CV will get 3-4 fires (which last for like 5s). That's all the advantage to it. Apart from that, RN bomber reticule only has disadvantages in that you need to get the right angle and position to maximise hit chances, while with any dive bomber you can basically approach from whatever Bs angle and turn during the drop, then deliver your 4-6 high damage bombs with decent precision. Not to mention that tying to DoT a CV down with HE bombers is like the most ineffective way to kill another CV short of maybe something like Kaga rockets. Setting 4 fires deals 8% of their hp in DoT. Compared to the bomb damage, that's a joke. Even floods are a better option, given they do almost as much as a full 4 fires.

14 minutes ago, black_falcon120 said:

btw I beat an enterprise with stock inimitable with a unallocated captain.

That's enemy incompetence. Or guess why people exist who can boast that they killed a CV in their French DDs? Certainly not because French DDs are somehow absolutely viable against CV.

[NovaScyth]

55 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

this might be the way forward for regular ranked

It already is like regular ranked. Top player of the losing team keeps his star, same as always :)

[Puffin_]

6 hours ago, Puffin_ said:

And some Carriers did not that great after all

https://wows-numbers.com/season/110,Sprint-10/

 

 

2 hours ago, LordTareq said:

Lol those Kaga players should be ashamed of themselves 

They did more AVG.Damage  38147 vs 37889 than Implacable players?.