Just unlocked Amagi, need advice

[SolanumTuberosumRex]

In the 5th upgrade slot, should I go for Target Acquisition System Modification 1, or Concealment System Modification 1? And why?

[ForlornSailor]

3 minutes ago, PsychoClownfish said:

Concealment System Modification 1

 

Always. You never go TAM. Concealment is everything in this game. It lets you disengage and go unspotted when you are low on health. What does TAM help you? Rushing a DD in smoke, you see him at 3 km instead of 2. Right before he torps you back to port.

[neorvo]

Look at Amagi  

[havaduck]

 

1 hour ago, PsychoClownfish said:

Concealment System Modification 1? And why?

 

With the C module you can sit unspotted at 13,5 km from shitcruisers that would die to T5 Kongos 15 km of effective gunrange already .......

 

Amagi is a gangster car, its fast, shows up, wrecks face and drives away. C helps with all of that.

[SSGdoncollier]

1 saat önce, ForlornSailor dedi:

 

Always. You never go TAM. Concealment is everything in this game. It lets you disengage and go unspotted when you are low on health. What does TAM help you? Rushing a DD in smoke, you see him at 3 km instead of 2. Right before he torps you back to port.

Absolutely agreed

[Beastofwar]

1 hour ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Always. You never go TAM. Concealment is everything in this game. It lets you disengage and go unspotted when you are low on health. What does TAM help you? Rushing a DD in smoke, you see him at 3 km instead of 2. Right before he torps you back to port.

 

But it also gives 20 % earlier torpedo warning that stacks with hydro.....potentially giving some BB that have hydro and a full secondary battery build the ability to hunt DD that never expect that. So torpedo's will miss and smoke will be less concealing.

 

Amagi does not have hydro...but it packs a lot of secondary battery guns ( 8x 140 mm 8x 127 mm per side ) to those that recognise its potential.

 

 

[lafeel]

16 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

 

But it also gives 20 % earlier torpedo warning that stacks with hydro.....potentially giving some BB that have hydro and a full secondary battery build the ability to hunt DD that never expect that.

 

Amagi does not have hydro...but it packs a lot of secondary battery guns ( 8x 140 mm 8x 127 mm per side ) to those that recognise it.

 

 

The secondaries are short ranged and fire slow though, there's a reason why nobody reccomends a secondary spec for her.

[Jvd2000]

The concealment module also gives an additional dispersion against incomming fire. As if this module needed another advantage over TAM...

[Beastofwar]

12 minutes ago, lafeel said:

The secondaries are short ranged and fire slow though, there's a reason why nobody reccomends a secondary spec for her.

 

I would not recommend it either....but just like all builds when specifically playing the strenghts of that build it can be vary satisfing to play.  

 

A camper will never get to use secondaries. Someone that leaves long range comabt  after fighting for caps intensifies and comes to help with all its armour does.

 

I am not a camper.....i can't care for camper builds.

[lafeel]

3 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

 

I would not recommend it either....but just like all builds when specifically playing the strenghts of that build it can be vary satisfing to play.  

 

A camper will never get to use secondaries. Someone that leaves long range comabt  after fighting for caps intensifies and comes to help with all its armour does.

 

I am not a camper.....i can't care for camper builds.

Neither do I. But Concealement module does not neccessarily mean a camper.

 

It also helps you get in closer before you get SPOTTED don't forget.

[ollonborre]

8 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

 

I would not recommend it either....but just like all builds when specifically playing the strenghts of that build it can be vary satisfing to play.  

 

A camper will never get to use secondaries. Someone that leaves long range comabt  after fighting for caps intensifies and comes to help with all its armour does.

 

I am not a camper.....i can't care for camper builds.

But concealment is always the better choice for randoms. The Aqusition module is useless in 99.99% of games you play, as you either have WASD hacks or map awarness to counter the usefulness of the aqusition module.

[DFens_666]

21 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

A camper will never get to use secondaries

 

Amagi secondaries are bad regardless of how much points you invest into them. All it does, is putting your team at a disadvantage by yoloing in like a for no reason to use those secondaries.

Also i can clearly see how a usefull Amagi build (using Concealment mod, tankbuild) prevents you from getting secondary kills with it. Not that it really matters, but only because you say it, doesnt make it true.

[SolanumTuberosumRex]

Thx for the debate guys. It's not only made it clear to me what I should choose but also pointed out my playing style. I have become fairly good at long distance fighting and then, if and when the time comes, to close in. Torpedoes are my achilles heel and so I love the idea of spotting them early. I always choose Vigiliance for my BB captains because I keep getting caught.'

But concealment is more important, and I am slowly getting better at predicting where torps might come from. She now has a detection range of 15 km's which is a lot better than the Fuso!  So, Concealment it is. 

[viceadmiral123]

You can play with empty slots if you plan to sell it after you are done with it, and save yourself some credits. Otherwise, concealment is the universal choice.

[Beastofwar]

21 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

Also i can clearly see how a usefull Amagi build (using Concealment mod, tankbuild) prevents you from getting secondary kills with it. Not that it really matters, but only because you say it, doesnt make it true.

 

I find the word Tank ( =armour) and Concealment ( =hiding ) very conflicting.

 

I'm sure armour in real wars i used to spearhead an attack, since centuries even.  Fleeying armoured knights from arrows, now that would have been a sight.....concealment is for light/unarmoured units....

 

In this game too, if all the other cowards camping in the back with ARMOURED BATTLESHIPS being busy with their own score  would actually follow a spearhead attack.  Which smashes trough everything as you can often see when it is actually done.

[ollonborre]

6 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

 

I find the word Tank ( =armour) and Concealment ( =hiding ) very conflicting.

 

I'm sure armour in real wars i used to spearhead an attack, since centuries even.  Fleeying armoured knights from arrows, now that would have been a sight.....concealment is for light/unarmoured units....

 

In this game too, if all the other cowards camping in the back with ARMOURED BATTLESHIPS being busy with their own score ( "unicums" lol ) would actually follow a spearhead attack.  Which smashes trough everything as you can often see when it is actually done.

Concealment gives you option on when and where you want to be positioned and be the most efficent, and the tankiness provided by FP and the like means that once you are in a correct position you can soak punishment that will be benficial for the team.

 

A BB beeing spotted far out and just farmed is not tanking for the team unless you can capitalize on it, which in 99% of cases you can't because the ones shooting back are often in a better position as the concealmentless BB gave them that option.

 

Any BB with 15km+ detection can't often be where it should be and thus not tank or push as effectively as you can see it coming and plan ahead for it. Exceptions do exist like the GK but that thing will also survive out of sheer HP and armor layout, and will often be quite hurt when it closes the distance unless you again, plan ahead.

[El2aZeR]

10 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

I find the word Tank ( =armour) and Concealment ( =hiding ) very conflicting.

 

Concealment allows you to dictate an engagement.

Survivability allows you to better sustain said engagement once it has begun.

Neither works in contradiction to the other.

 

11 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

In this game too, if all the other cowards camping in the back with ARMOURED BATTLESHIPS being busy with their own score  would actually follow a spearhead attack.

 

Hint:

If people concerned over their score, aka wanting to win, are hanging back and you recklessly charge forward because you don't care, that makes you the terrible player, not them.

[Bear__Necessities]

20 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

 

I find the word Tank ( =armour) and Concealment ( =hiding ) very conflicting.

 

I'm sure armour in real wars i used to spearhead an attack, since centuries even.  Fleeying armoured knights from arrows, now that would have been a sight.....concealment is for light/unarmoured units....

 

In this game too, if all the other cowards camping in the back with ARMOURED BATTLESHIPS being busy with their own score  would actually follow a spearhead attack.  Which smashes trough everything as you can often see when it is actually done.

It’s almost like you have no clue and no skill...

 

Ohhhh...

[Ronchabale]

Amagi is relativly fast, a flanker, play at medium to long range, angle and kite away when u meet higher tier BB:s or u will get smacked

[DFens_666]

47 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

 

I find the word Tank ( =armour) and Concealment ( =hiding ) very conflicting.

 

I'm sure armour in real wars i used to spearhead an attack, since centuries even.  Fleeying armoured knights from arrows, now that would have been a sight.....concealment is for light/unarmoured units....

 

In this game too, if all the other cowards camping in the back with ARMOURED BATTLESHIPS being busy with their own score  would actually follow a spearhead attack.  Which smashes trough everything as you can often see when it is actually done.

 

If i camp in the back, why would i need concealment?

 

Speccing for concealment, i can operate closer for a longer period of time without the need to retreat. A BB being close is a bigger threat to Cruisers and potentially other BBs.  And if something goes wrong, i can disengage easier.

 

But what do i know, im ofc a stat padding elitist noob who cant play, camps in the back, farms damage, doesnt help his team, cant aim... did i forgot something? 

 

https://wows-numbers.com/de/player/season/540423429,DFens_666,season,110/

In Hipper ofc most OP ship in the game, thats why Massa and Tirp have 65% WR and Hipper <50%. Must be the ship ... oh wait

[Butterdoll]

Well, Amagi.

 

Of all IJN BBs , it's the one that most probably I can see myself in.

Turtle back but not German grade levels.

According to Flamu it has 32 mm all over so it needs tankiness and concealment

 

[Beastofwar]

6 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Hint:

If people concerned over their score, aka wanting to win, are hanging back and you recklessly charge forward because you don't care, that makes you the terrible player, not them.

 

Not at all.....

 

1 - concealment is overrated because of....well CV. These spot early deployment anyway, will keep most ships spotted most of the time  and is the cause of much whining about CV spotting.

2- conceament is useless if you use ISLANDS to approach.....cannot hit what you cannot shoot...almost all maps are covered in these damned islands that block your own fire all the time.....but they block enemy fire too....

3- concealment is useless when you are up close in the enemies face.

 

Now since you never do this, this may be new to you but up close charging :

 

1- you fire multiple hit citadels into enemies more easily, Some cruisers through their bow as their plating or your guns caliber allows

2- your secondariea actually work - they set fires left and right

3- you cause panic as the enemy are usually stat minded campers too and they are taking large amounts of damage and  THEIR CONCEALMENT IS BLOWN because you spot them

4- you endanger stat minded campers going down by RAMMNG, something they fear as they often cant stop it.

5- you make cowards run away, opning the cap for allies to be taken.

6- you often go down with 80+k damage done and not rarely 1st kill achievement.

7- you may encaurage others to follow which will end in a breaktrhough on that flank

8- you may light up the enemy CV very soon in the match which can lead to it's destruction if other did not stay behind to camp.

9-you can even survive to match end when you 1)actually kill the enemies there 2) your team follows you 3) The cowards run and achieve concealment again, so they escape but are later killed on the other side of the map

 

See all benefits cowering campers= battleshipss that do not advance  do not know.

 

What can go wrong ?

 

1-burning down  nope as that is what you use the annoying islands for untill you are in their face

2 being torpedoed  nope as that is why you never sail in a straight line for more then a few seconds or and suddenly halt before you pass island openings.

3 being focussed down well yes but bow on close range they wont stop you to with neither HE or AP before you can really hurt them

4 being sunk eventually well yes but not without nice damage totals  and not without hammering an opening to use for all allies with ACTUAL BRAINS in their head.

 

In reality most enemies run when you fire a few citadels in one of their buddies at 8-6 km, clearing the cap that fight is about. This is very important to the team winning but goes unrewarded as no one will remember who made a flank crumble. They only appriciate high damage dealing ( long living ) players. Hence why most players camp, camping is rewarded. Helping a team crushing a flank is not. Why do it then ? Becasue it gives a kick seeying enemies cower and run before you....

 

And by the by.....secondaries are used a lot with this way of fighting. They are responsible for damaging or killing DD while main guns are used on Cruisers and BB. Campers with a camping build would not know this, as their secondaries do not work proper and they are killed by DD  with their slow rotating main guns pointing the other way.....

 

And yes i camp too.....in long range artillery CRUISERS....not Battleships.....

 

[Bear__Necessities]

2 hours ago, Beastofwar said:

 

Not at all.....

 

1 - concealment is overrated because of....well CV. These spot early deployment anyway, will keep most ships spotted most of the time  and is the cause of much whining about CV spotting.

2- conceament is useless if you use ISLANDS to approach.....cannot hit what you cannot shoot...almost all maps are covered in these damned islands that block your own fire all the time.....but they block enemy fire too....

3- concealment is useless when you are up close in the enemies face.

 

Now since you never do this, this may be new to you but up close charging :

 

1- you fire multiple hit citadels into enemies more easily, Some cruisers through their bow as their plating or your guns caliber allows

2- your secondariea actually work - they set fires left and right

3- you cause panic as the enemy are usually stat minded campers too and they are taking large amounts of damage and  THEIR CONCEALMENT IS BLOWN because you spot them

4- you endanger stat minded campers going down by RAMMNG, something they fear as they often cant stop it.

5- you make cowards run away, opning the cap for allies to be taken.

6- you often go down with 80+k damage done and not rarely 1st kill achievement.

7- you may encaurage others to follow which will end in a breaktrhough on that flank

8- you may light up the enemy CV very soon in the match which can lead to it's destruction if other did not stay behind to camp.

9-you can even survive to match end when you 1)actually kill the enemies there 2) your team follows you 3) The cowards run and achieve concealment again, so they escape but are later killed on the other side of the map

 

See all benefits cowering campers= battleshipss that do not advance  do not know.

 

What can go wrong ?

 

1-burning down  nope as that is what you use the annoying islands for untill you are in their face

2 being torpedoed  nope as that is why you never sail in a straight line for more then a few seconds or and suddenly halt before you pass island openings.

3 being focussed down well yes but bow on close range they wont stop you to with neither HE or AP before you can really hurt them

4 being sunk eventually well yes but not without nice damage totals  and not without hammering an opening to use for all allies with ACTUAL BRAINS in their head.

 

In reality most enemies run when you fire a few citadels in one of their buddies at 8-6 km, clearing the cap that fight is about. This is very important to the team winning but goes unrewarded as no one will remember who made a flank crumble. They only appriciate high damage dealing ( long living ) players. Hence why most players camp, camping is rewarded. Helping a team crushing a flank is not. Why do it then ? Becasue it gives a kick seeying enemies cower and run before you....

 

And by the by.....secondaries are used a lot with this way of fighting. They are responsible for damaging or killing DD while main guns are used on Cruisers and BB. Campers with a camping build would not know this, as their secondaries do not work proper and they are killed by DD  with their slow rotating main guns pointing the other way.....

 

And yes i camp too.....in long range artillery CRUISERS....not Battleships.....

 

So you won’t mind showing us your epic BB results and stats then. You know. To prove your point?

 

Ohhh wait. You won’t because you’ll be found out as lying.

[mcboernester]

Im just gonna quote this part

2 hours ago, Beastofwar said:

1- you fire multiple hit citadels into enemies more easily, Some cruisers through their bow as their plating or your guns caliber allows

2- your secondariea actually work - they set fires left and right

3- you cause panic as the enemy are usually stat minded campers too and they are taking large amounts of damage and  THEIR CONCEALMENT IS BLOWN because you spot them

4- you endanger stat minded campers going down by RAMMNG, something they fear as they often cant stop it.

5- you make cowards run away, opning the cap for allies to be taken.

6- you often go down with 80+k damage done and not rarely 1st kill achievement.

7- you may encaurage others to follow which will end in a breaktrhough on that flank

8- you may light up the enemy CV very soon in the match which can lead to it's destruction if other did not stay behind to camp.

9-you can even survive to match end when you 1)actually kill the enemies there 2) your team follows you 3) The cowards run and achieve concealment again, so they escape but are later killed on the other side of the map

Lets make a "expectations vs reality" post out of it: 

 

You charge in from 18km guns blazing, as a Amagi. Everybody sees you. You are targeted by 5, 3 of which are HE cruisers which are more then happy that a BB actually runs willingly into their range while they are fully concealed. 1.5 minutes later you are dead and blame your teammates for being campers. And in this battle you where top tier without carriers, so i didn't even consider ships like DM /  smolenk than can burn you down all alone or a yamato that will overmatch your nose. 

 

Does that sound familiar to you? 

 

 

EDIT: There's a reason why the Amagi was a Flanker back in T8 competitive, and not a Brawler like you try to force onto her. 

[CptBarney]

1 hour ago, mcboernester said:

Im just gonna quote this part

Lets make a "expectations vs reality" post out of it: 

 

You charge in from 18km guns blazing, as a Amagi. Everybody sees you. You are targeted by 5, 3 of which are HE cruisers which are more then happy that a BB actually runs willingly into their range while they are fully concealed. 1.5 minutes later you are dead and blame your teammates for being campers. And in this battle you where top tier without carriers, so i didn't even consider ships like DM /  smolenk than can burn you down all alone or a yamato that will overmatch your nose. 

 

Does that sound familiar to you? 

 

 

EDIT: There's a reason why the Amagi was a Flanker back in T8 competitive, and not a Brawler like you try to force onto her. 

Doing what he suggests in monarch, georgia and jean bart is a quick way to die as well. With flanker and flank pushing BB's you need to know when and where to push and also to conserve HP even more so than most BB types since you are more fragile and usually have a smaller HP pool, but faster rates of fire and/or more accurate guns. Those 3 are essentially mid-late game ships and while you can push up in all three early, doing so will get you killed pretty quickly and islands only tend to shield one part of your ship anyways.

 

With georgia i play safe at the beginning (either around 12-14km behind an island or kiting) then around mid game or when i see the flank is dying i push up and go in sensibly (making sure there is no torp spammer nearby and making sure peeps can crossfire me) once thats done i can then start to push into the other flank with georgia and hopefully my teammates push up (usually they do since they get some goolies and actually push in cus less nasteh ships).

 

If the opposite i find georgia gud at kiting from a flank thats messed up while changing speed and also direction (to avoid shells and also to keep them focused on me while not being useless allowing my team to also shoot them) its how i won one match with a stalingrad and 3 other friendlies. when they died me and the stalin just kited against 2 conqs a mogador, hindenberg, ibuki and a yamato oh and a iowa and because they took so long and the yammy went off to be useless at the other side of the map and ibuki getting blapped, we were able to not only hold the flank but force them into our other flank which steam rolled theirs 5mins into the match.

 

Never understood why you get people who play via extremes. Its about knowing when to do it not picking something then just sticking to it the entire time of the duration of the match.