US Cruisers

[Tatoosh]

I am working my way up (or is that down) the US Cruiser Tech Tree.  I've just acquired The USS Cleveland (Tier VI).  But it does not beckon to me the way the USS Omaha (Tier V) does.  The reason is the lack of torpedoes on the Cleveland.  I like destroyers to be honest, but they die so quick.  The lower tier of US Cruisers, particularly the USS Omaha, are kind of like buffed up destroyers, good guns, okay torpedoes if you get in close, and just enough armor that you can actually do that occasionally.

 

I can see that with the USS Cleveland, I'll be stuck to gun battles with cruisers and destroyers or anti-aircraft duties.  I suppose in team play, that can be important.  But as a semi-autonomous captain in random teams, having some offenisve punching power is a lot more fun than be the defensive guard for your teams carrier or battleship.  IMHO, of course.  

 

I have only started on the Japanese side (Katori & Umikaze destroyers) and not progressed far with them.  I know the IJN torpedoes are much better as you move along the Tech Tree, but I tend to want to get in the middle and mix it up, not snipe from a distance.  I get sunk a lot, but for a glorious few, it is all guns blazing and torpedoes flying everywhere!  

 

I suspect I'll be playing the USS Omaha for some time down the road.  How do other US Cruiser captains feel about the higher tier offerings? Do you like the Pensicola through Des Moines and do they offer something to compensate for the loss of torpedoes?   

 

P.S. I just noticed that the premium cruiser USS Atlanta has torpedoes!  And at Tier VII it should have some decent artillery so it is very, very tempting!  The Cleveland and Pensicola do not show any torpedoes and I can't seem to access modules on the any tiers above that so I'm guessing they are torpedo-less as well.  

 

[Sharana]

If you don't like such ... perfectly balanced for it's tier ship as Cleavland I doubt cruisers are your ships.

Japanese cruisers keep their torpedoes, so if they are important go for them or play DDs.

 

Yes USN CAs lose torps from tier 6 up and compensate with artillery firepower, AA and survivability.

[Pete_SB]

US cruisers are switching between cruiser classes all the way up to T7 then they are heavy cruisers.

T1 gunboat

T2 light cruiser

T3 Protected cruiser

T4 & 5 Destroyer leader/light cruiser

T6 Light cruiser

T7/8/9/10 Heavy cruiser

 

The T7 Atlanta was an AA cruiser

[FakeMessiah27]

US cruisers are switching between cruiser classes all the way up to T7 then they are heavy cruisers.

T1 gunboat

T2 light cruiser

T3 Protected cruiser

T4 & 5 Destroyer leader/light cruiser

T6 Light cruiser

T7/8/9/10 Heavy cruiser

 

The T7 Atlanta was an AA cruiser

 

Isn't the Pensacola a light cruiser? I just guessed as much since it has less armour than the Cleveland. I figured it was the other way around, with the Cleveland being the heavy cruiser and the Pensacola being the light cruiser.

[Battledragon]

To be honest, if you want to attack with torpedoes, get a destroyer, even on Japanese cruisers with good torpedoes I rarely score a kill by torpedo since they are too big and unweildy to make effective torpedo attacks past the Kuma.

[JapLance]

 

Isn't the Pensacola a light cruiser? I just guessed as much since it has less armour than the Cleveland. I figured it was the other way around, with the Cleveland being the heavy cruiser and the Pensacola being the light cruiser.

 

The concept heavy/light cruiser is not based on tonnage or armour, but on main gun caliber. Cruisers with guns up to 6.1in or 155mm were "light". One with anything bigger, a heavy cruiser.

[Pete_SB]

 

Isn't the Pensacola a light cruiser? I just guessed as much since it has less armour than the Cleveland. I figured it was the other way around, with the Cleveland being the heavy cruiser and the Pensacola being the light cruiser.

 

It's gun size that determines class after mid war years

[valkarianism]

You are like me.

 

We've both had very extreme games in the Omaha. I would see a Fuso and say to myself: Fuso? Ha! Let me show you how to become Fu-Sank! I would sail up to him and dodge about 3 salvos from his main battery before unloading my torpedoes into his side. Those were fun days, and I do enjoy using the Omaha from time to time. 

 

However, the reason why the Omaha was fun was not because it was strong, but that it was forgiving. You could make a large amount of mistakes and still get away with it. Torpedoes? Kill the speed and turn full rudder! Battleships! Dodge all salvoes and unleash torpedoes! Cruisers (same tier) ? Well I have 8 Barrels (if i didn't remember wrongly) a side! Beat that ROF too! DD? You ain't got nothing on me bro! As long as you were top dog, the only thing that could sink you was probably multiple ships firing on you in a very bad position. It was so forgiving that it was fun for most of us.

 

Then things got serious in the cleveland.

 

Now, you have 4 triple barreled guns of 155mm each, with an ROF that's still decent in terms of shells per minute. Sounds great right? Sure it is. Super AA ship as well, and together with the panic ability you'd be the best AA ship in the tier! Sounds amazing isn't it! Well it's no longer as forgiving. You can't change directions and speed the way you could with the Omaha. You now have to duel Fusos and better aircraft carriers more often. Your barrels may be many, but you really only have 4 guns, and missing now takes a much heavier toll. If one gun gets taken out, you lose 3 barrels instantly. You're longer and easier to hit as well, and a seasoned player could find your citadel in a jiffy and hit hard. You no longer have the forgiving build the Omaha gave you.

 

Is Cruisers on the USN fun? Hell yes. IJN? yes, but it's an acquired taste. Stick it through a little more, go play some battleship, and then hop back in the cleveland to try again. This time, do not sail it like you did the Omaha. The ship is essentially different and has different roles.

[Tatoosh]

Just for clarity, I love the USS Cleveland and enjoy playing it very much.  I want to like the destroyers and I did buy the USS Sims (Tier VII) but if anything farts at it, I'm dead.  It is a nimble craft for certain.  I need to upgrade some of my hardware, including a multi-button mouse so I can improve my "situational awareness" which appears tantamount to survival in the DD's.  

 

I will work on the tiers, save my pennies and buy the USS Atlanta next month, and see how it goes.  But the Russian Murmansk looks pretty inviting too!  And as mentioned, there are the lower tier IJN Cruisers to work through.  Plenty to play with and see how they perform.  But I do like a bit of survivability along with my torpedoes.   

[OVanBruce]

Well, the less people that like the Cleveland the better.

[Tatoosh]

I'm outfitting the Cleveland now.  Picking the Modules and Upgrades.  The latter are a bit of puzzle.  Slot 1 was not so hard for me, I went with Main Battery Mod 1 since the Cleveland is a gunship.  

Slot 2 is a bit more challenging:

 

AA Gun Mod 2 / Secondary Batt 2 / Gunfire Control Mod 1 / Main Batt Mod 2

 

So I'm not sure how many AA guns I have.  The AA Gun Modification is tempting just to deal with the plethora of torpedo planes I run into.  But I figure that Gunfire Control Mod 1 (better accuracy) or Main Battery Mod 2 (faster reloads and aiming speed) are the better choices since the main artillery are what it really has to keep it alive.  Anyone have an idea which the last two is better on the Cleveland? 

Slot 3: 

Damage Control Sys 1 /  Propulsion Mod 1 /  Steering Gears 1

For me it seems that Damage Control System 1 is the best choice 3% and 5% less chance of flooding and fire respectively.  Steering Gears 1 would be my second choice but kind of distant one since dodging (zig zag) is an important tactic and one that is lost if steering is out.

Slot 4:

Propulsion Mod 2 /  Steering Gears Mod 2 / Damage Control Sys 2

 

Again, Damage Control Sys 2 seems like the good choice with 15% less time on recovering from flooding and fire.  
 

So there we have it.  What to use where?  I am trying to overcome my suicidal urger to drive into the fray and die with guns blazing.  I still get killed but I try to last a few minutes and see if I can do some damage or even take someone with me.  So improving slowly.  But a good build makes a difference and I can use all the help I can get!  
 

 

Also, thanks to Valkarianism for the good advice on the Omaha and Cleveland's difference.  

 

 

[fnord_disc]

Japanese cruisers are sort of what you want in that they have adequate torpedoes and guns both, but they're also kind of not because they're very fragile and not particularly maneuverable either. You might dislike them once you play them.

[Tatoosh]

fnord_disc, I plan to start working the IJN tree pretty soon.  I've done one of their cruisers and one of their destroyers.  But I'm trying to work the Tech Tree fairly directly before shifting to a different country.  And my one real complaint about Destroyers is that a fart kills them.  I like a bit of "survivability" built in so I can at least get a few shots off before some long range BB or annoying mosquito bomber feeds me a torpedo.   

[slaydo]

US Cruisers are more maneuverable than Jap ones. I have played both lines to Tier 9 and 8 so I have a little experience in the matter . US Cruisers, especially tier 6, 7 and 8 are by far more maneuverable and have loads of fire power more... The guns are also more accurate I find. All this comes at the expense of torps.. I don't miss them on US Cruisers tbh. 

 

It takes time to adapt from omaha to cleveland. I suggest you continue your grind, you will see that US cruisers are a blast to play. AA is somewhat meh in Jap cruisers compared to US ones.. I don't fear any aircraft in my US Cruisers, more than enough AA to deal with anything that a CV player can throw at me.

 

hope this helps.

[beercrazy]

if you enjoy nimble ships that have good guns and also include torps I would say you cant go wrong with the mogami

also the Atlanta plays like a slow dd with fantastic gun fire and torps for the close in action

 

Cleveland aa is fantastic in my opinion and I now have the upgrades to ship and commander to extend the range of the aa guns and hardly ever get torpedo launched at me now from aircraft

[Madhax]

Slot 2 is a bit more challenging:

 

AA Gun Mod 2 / Secondary Batt 2 / Gunfire Control Mod 1 / Main Batt Mod 2

So I'm not sure how many AA guns I have.  The AA Gun Modification is tempting just to deal with the plethora of torpedo planes I run into.  But I figure that Gunfire Control Mod 1 (better accuracy) or Main Battery Mod 2 (faster reloads and aiming speed) are the better choices since the main artillery are what it really has to keep it alive.  Anyone have an idea which the last two is better on the Cleveland? 

Slot 3: 

 

Damage Control Sys 1 /  Propulsion Mod 1 /  Steering Gears 1

For me it seems that Damage Control System 1 is the best choice 3% and 5% less chance of flooding and fire respectively.  Steering Gears 1 would be my second choice but kind of distant one since dodging (zig zag) is an important tactic and one that is lost if steering is out.

 

 

Regarding the slot 2 choice, the Main Battery Modification 2 does decrease the aiming time, but it increases the reloading time. Personally i'd recommend the AA modification to enhance the strenght of the Cleveland. (And the USN cruisers onward)

 

The choice at slot 3 is okay if you feel you flood or burn a lot, but I do believe the Steering Gears are more needed in tight torpedo situations. (Of which there are many!)

 

[Tatoosh]

I've started to enjoy the Cleveland. It definitely has more artillery punch than the Omaha, as long as I don't try to duke it out with BB's.  

 

The Atlanta is definitely in the list of ships to get when I have a few more free coins.  I like the idea of the torps even though its artillery is not the equal of the Cleveland.  I forgot to compare it with the Omaha but will when I restart the game.  

 

beercrazy & slaydo, so for Slot 2, what say you?  Main Battery Mod or Gun Control Mod?  Tier 3 & 4 I am thinking will be Damage Control on both.    

 

Madhax, thanks!  I will consider those points carefully!

 

[beercrazy]

I would take the aa gun mod for slot 2

I also take the mod for less fires and flooding for slot 3 but if it works or not I don't know because I never played the Cleveland without that 3rd slot mod fitted

[Tatoosh]

I picked up the Slot 2 as AA Gun Mod 2, given the overwhelming support for it, including iChase's recommendation on his Captain's Academy video.  I also followed beercrazy's suggestion and went for the Damage Control Sys 1 in Slot 3.  

 

I am just shy of enough tokens to fill slot 4.  I'm mixed between the Steering Gears and Damage Control System 2.  Damage Control System 2 seems the "shoe in" or obvious choice since it offers 15% less time to recover from flooding and fire.  But the ability to zig zag with 20% improvement in rudder time is very tempting too.  

 

And as Valkarianism foretold and OVanBruce celebrated, my dismay with the Cleveland is starting to dissipate.  It has some staying power and the guns do real damage with the right choice of shells, given what is currently available.  I have "stolen", though not intentionally, a number of kills which I contribute to using AP instead of HE shells.  While I do get the occasional "over penetration" message, I also seem to inflict a lot more damage in general.    

[xBamBamx]

The Cleveland is going to be rebalanced as its OP, the rate of fire is insane for the tier, its already been nerfed and requires another one.  Stick to IJN if you like torps as US CA tech tree is not geared towards torps at all hence the rubbish range on them.  The strength is AA and of course main guns which have a  fast turn rate compared to IJN.

[Tatoosh]

Thanks SeamanStains.  I hear ya, though I will probably buy the Atlanta next month if it is still available.  I have not really started on the IJN tree yet.  Their torps are much better but I've heard their durability is not good.  I will find out after I work my way up the US cruisers a bit more.  I've had fairly good luck with torps on the US cruisers and little luck with them on the US destroyers.  I think it is my style of game play and so forth.  The cruisers last long enough that with a bit of luck, I get to off a few torpedoes occasionally.  The destroyers seem to die very quick and I'm not stealthy enough to sneak up on anything.  

[captainlafay]

Thanks SeamanStains.  I hear ya, though I will probably buy the Atlanta next month if it is still available.  I have not really started on the IJN tree yet.  Their torps are much better but I've heard their durability is not good.  I will find out after I work my way up the US cruisers a bit more.  I've had fairly good luck with torps on the US cruisers and little luck with them on the US destroyers.  I think it is my style of game play and so forth.  The cruisers last long enough that with a bit of luck, I get to off a few torpedoes occasionally.  The destroyers seem to die very quick and I'm not stealthy enough to sneak up on anything.  

 

Altough the Atlanta is quite fun to play don't count on ever using her torps successfully, due to their abysmal range and the ships squishiness. 4,8 km torp range just isn't enough when you're a relatively big target that gets blown to bits easily (aka oneshot [if unlucky] even by lower tier cruisers).

 

I only reached tier VIII myself, but imo tier VII-IX US cruisers are horrible. I did quite well in the Pensacola, after getting used to her (didn't have much fun though, esp. in comparison to brawling with the Cleveland), the New Orleans on the other hand is a complete pile of junk and I fail to see how she's an upgrade over the Pensa. Tier X seems to be brilliant, at least on paper.

 

 

 

 

[xBamBamx]

Im on Baltimore ATM and in a few days hope to get the De Moine, heres a great comparison between all cruisers, theres also a link to compare DD and BB.  I love the Baltimore, annoys me when I don't get enemy planes as this thing chews craft up like no one else.  http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/11719-cruiser-comparison/

 

[Tatoosh]

I spent some time this evening playing the IJN cruisers, but have not got to the point they have torpedoes.  I am almost there, but the lure of my first big gun ship was too much and I dropped my 2600 silvers on the Kawachi.  I will get back to the US cruisers tomorrow and see how it fares.  The little time I spent with the Cleveland and the AA Gun Mod, I noticed I was dropping more planes than before.  So I'm pretty happy with that choice at the moment. 

 

Madhax, I definitely wanted the steering gears but the fire and flooding won out.  As much as i get shot up, I can use all the help I can get in the department.

 

SeamanStains, of course as soon as I figure out how to play a particular ship well or at least well enough to please me, they will wipe the board, nerf the bugger, or something on that order.  It is Murphy's Law which appears to apply to ships as well as all things on the land.   

[Quitol]

 

 

 

I only reached tier VIII myself, but imo tier VII-IX US cruisers are horrible. I did quite well in the Pensacola, after getting used to her (didn't have much fun though, esp. in comparison to brawling with the Cleveland), the New Orleans on the other hand is a complete pile of junk and I fail to see how she's an upgrade over the Pensa. Tier X seems to be brilliant, at least on paper.

 

 

 

 

 

Ah so I'm not the only one, Omaha was fun and efficient, took a lot more time to like the Cleveland, and now that I have the Pensacola I'm quite dissapointed.

Yes the 203mm guns are a great plus, they murder DD and lighter cruisers, but the downgrade in armor and hp really sucks when coming from the durable Cleve.

Still need 40k for New Orleans, but it doesn't looks like an upgrade at all.