Fire prevention skill

[MajorFumble]

i have fire prevention skill on the Sinop. it should reduce the fires to three, but i counted four after a game. any comment?

[Bortasqu]

Is your captain under training? If yes, all perks are disabled.

Also, share screenshot or replay of it, if the above was no.

[HMS_Britannia]

This skill does not limit the number of times you can be set on fire per match, it limits the number of fires you can have burning on your ship at any one time.

 

There are 4 zones on a ship that can be on fire, bow, stern, and superstructure x2.

The skill reduces the superstructure from x2 to x1 so now you can only have bow, stern, and superstructure x1 it is useful as most people aim for the middle of your ship so instead of getting 2 fires burning on your superstructure you only have one.

[MajorFumble]

tyvm 4 that last reply

[Butterdoll]

19 minutes ago, HMS_Britannia said:

This skill does not limit the number of times you can be set on fire per match, it limits the number of fires you can have burning on your ship at any one time.

 

There are 4 zones on a ship that can be on fire, bow, stern, and superstructure x2.

The skill reduces the superstructure from x2 to x1 so now you can only have bow, stern, and superstructure x1 it is useful as most people aim for the middle of your ship so instead of getting 2 fires burning on your superstructure you only have one.

And that's all you get.

3 fires instead of 4.

Man, if you've  2 fires on your ship something is not going according to the plan, 4 fires on your ship, something went awfully wrong.

3 fires burn through a ship very fast.

So, tomatoes, tomato

I'm wonder myself if this ability  worth 4 points for what it is.

 

[RenamedUser_92906789]

Its not only that.

Without a skill you get double fire on the central structure of the ship and that happens a lot, since many people shoot there.

[Yedwy]

2 hours ago, Butterdoll said:

Man, if you've  2 fires on your ship something is not going according to the plan, 4 fires on your ship, something went awfully wrong.

You mean as in having any of these ships in red team (just to name a few from T10) Smolensk, Kleber, Zao, Khabarovsk, Grozovoi, Henri IV, Moskva, Conqueror, Burgogne, Midway, Audatios and beeing spotted and in their range for more then 20s?

[Gebe_]

4 hours ago, Butterdoll said:

I'm wonder myself if this ability  worth 4 points for what it is.

FP is the single best survivability skill in the game and pretty much a must have on any BB.

[Butterdoll]

4 hours ago, Yedwy said:

You mean as in having any of these ships in red team (just to name a few from T10) Smolensk, Kleber, Zao, Khabarovsk, Grozovoi, Henri IV, Moskva, Conqueror, Burgogne, Midway, Audatios and beeing spotted and in their range for more then 20s?

 

2 hours ago, Gebe_ said:

FP is the single best survivability skill in the game and pretty much a must have on any BB.

 

i forgot about Smolensk, but there are plenty of HE spammers out there.

 

 

I don't know, till now I didn't really needed the FP skill, everyone say it's great and I'm saving for  it, but when I see the FP skill I read in the description instead of 4, you only get 3 fires and I find it kinda of lame for what it does versus what it cost which is 4 points, (very expensive).

Meanwhile I'm having my [edited]handed to me on a plate in sprint because my secondaries don't do jack crap while my Bismarck melts (I didn't saw a single cv ) away quite nice. So there is that.

And I know that sprint is just an occasional thing, but...

 

 

The thing is

with 3 fires my BB burns a lot faster, and that  means I derped somewhere , somewhat, somehow, and I'm in deep crap. OK that skill prevents you that you don't get a fourth fire

depending on many factors...

With 3 fires

if my RP it's in cool down and I'm running low on HP, I might be as good as dead (with or without hardcover)

If my RP it's ready to go and I'm running low on HP, I might escape death but what i'll do next? (if I don't have any more heals)

 

Listen, I don't doubt that FP it's a useful  skill, but it's too expensive for what it does and for what one's have to walk off from.

 

So, I'm at this dilemma. 

 

Bismarck

Full on Secondary build

or

FP

I don't play it often in random, but I play it in sprint

 

 

 

 

[ollonborre]

3 minutes ago, Butterdoll said:

 

 

i forgot about Smolensk, but there are plenty of HE spammers out there.

 

 

I don't know, till now I didn't really needed the FP skill, everyone say it's great and I'm saving for  it, but when I see the FP skill I read in the description instead of 4, you only get 3 fires and I find it kinda of lame for what it does versus what it cost which is 4 points, (very expensive).

Meanwhile I'm having my [edited]handed to me on a plate in sprint because my secondaries don't do jack crap while my Bismarck melts (I didn't saw a single cv ) away quite nice. So there is that.

And I know that sprint is just an occasional thing, but...

 

 

The thing is

with 3 fires my BB burns a lot faster, and that  means I derped somewhere , somewhat, somehow, and I'm in deep crap. OK that skill prevents you that you don't get a fourth fire

depending on many factors...

With 3 fires

if my RP it's in cool down and I'm running low on HP, I might be as good as dead (with or without hardcover)

If my RP it's ready to go and I'm running low on HP, I might escape death but what i'll do next? (if I don't have any more heals)

 

Listen, I don't doubt that FP it's a useful  skill, but it's too expensive for what it does and for what one's have to walk off from.

 

So, I'm at this dilemma. 

 

 

 

 

 

You are missing this though, because the midsection only gets 1 fire the risk of receiving 2 fires in an unlucky HE volley is greatly reduced. The main target for HE is the superstructure and midsection, and setting more fires requires you to shift your aim more to different parts of the ship.

 

Fact of the matter is simply that FP increases your survivability from fires hugely giving you more options to play around your damage control/repair party. It is 4 points because it needs to be 4 points. Any lower and it would either have to be nerfed or it simply would be too powerful.

[Isoruku_Yamamoto]

7 hours ago, Butterdoll said:

And that's all you get.

3 fires instead of 4.

Man, if you've  2 fires on your ship something is not going according to the plan, 4 fires on your ship, something went awfully wrong.

3 fires burn through a ship very fast.

So, tomatoes, tomato

I'm wonder myself if this ability  worth 4 points for what it is.

 

I dunno if anyone said this, but its not all you get. 

It also factors in an extra 10% fire chance reduction, which combined with damage control mods brngs your fire susceptability to 85% instead of 95% with dcm or 100% base

.

So it lowers the chance you catch on fire, which is generally the main effect imo, but also reduces the second superstructure fire spot. 

[howardxu_23]

1 hour ago, Butterdoll said:

 

 

i forgot about Smolensk, but there are plenty of HE spammers out there.

 

 

I don't know, till now I didn't really needed the FP skill, everyone say it's great and I'm saving for  it, but when I see the FP skill I read in the description instead of 4, you only get 3 fires and I find it kinda of lame for what it does versus what it cost which is 4 points, (very expensive).

Meanwhile I'm having my [edited]handed to me on a plate in sprint because my secondaries don't do jack crap while my Bismarck melts (I didn't saw a single cv ) away quite nice. So there is that.

And I know that sprint is just an occasional thing, but...

 

 

The thing is

with 3 fires my BB burns a lot faster, and that  means I derped somewhere , somewhat, somehow, and I'm in deep crap. OK that skill prevents you that you don't get a fourth fire

depending on many factors...

With 3 fires

if my RP it's in cool down and I'm running low on HP, I might be as good as dead (with or without hardcover)

If my RP it's ready to go and I'm running low on HP, I might escape death but what i'll do next? (if I don't have any more heals)

 

Listen, I don't doubt that FP it's a useful  skill, but it's too expensive for what it does and for what one's have to walk off from.

 

So, I'm at this dilemma. 

 

Bismarck

Full on Secondary build

or

FP

I don't play it often in random, but I play it in sprint

 

 

 

 

The main advantage of FP skill is that most HE spammers fire at the superstructure, without FP there is a good chance u get 2 fires due to that, having FP means they can only really get one on superstructure , which is effectively halving the damage 

[Beastofwar]

10 hours ago, MajorFumble said:

i have fire prevention skill on the Sinop. it should reduce the fires to three, but i counted four after a game. any comment?

 

3 fires burn your ship to catastrophical low HP - or kill you when not full HP - just as well as 4 fires. It saves you but X number of seconds of living longer, but not even that if the HE causing agent continues to set you on fire all the time. It is the same for Fire prevention....almost useelss when HE is continuing to rain down on you, as when you burn that spot cannot burn again while it burns. If it does not burn ( fire prevention )  it will start burning anyway if the cause is not stopped.

 

I know that because i enjoy Smolensk, Friesland and several firespitting high ROF DD and long range HE flinging Supercruisers with large guns. And UK BB occasionally. In short, those that burn down BB to kill. They never fail to burn down enemy BB if a victim is selected and are not interrupted by enemy teammates, while the majority has that skill !

 

Long and short of it.

 

Not for nothing there is so much whining about the Smolensk......if "survivability buids" were any effective that would not be an issue at all...yet it is.

 

To not be hit with HE or for a minimum duration of taking HE hits is the only way here....

 

 

[Ronchabale]

2 hours ago, Butterdoll said:

 

 

i forgot about Smolensk, but there are plenty of HE spammers out there.

 

 

I don't know, till now I didn't really needed the FP skill, everyone say it's great and I'm saving for  it, but when I see the FP skill I read in the description instead of 4, you only get 3 fires and I find it kinda of lame for what it does versus what it cost which is 4 points, (very expensive).

Meanwhile I'm having my [edited]handed to me on a plate in sprint because my secondaries don't do jack crap while my Bismarck melts (I didn't saw a single cv ) away quite nice. So there is that.

And I know that sprint is just an occasional thing, but...

 

 

The thing is

with 3 fires my BB burns a lot faster, and that  means I derped somewhere , somewhat, somehow, and I'm in deep crap. OK that skill prevents you that you don't get a fourth fire

depending on many factors...

With 3 fires

if my RP it's in cool down and I'm running low on HP, I might be as good as dead (with or without hardcover)

If my RP it's ready to go and I'm running low on HP, I might escape death but what i'll do next? (if I don't have any more heals)

 

Listen, I don't doubt that FP it's a useful  skill, but it's too expensive for what it does and for what one's have to walk off from.

 

So, I'm at this dilemma. 

 

Bismarck

Full on Secondary build

or

FP

I don't play it often in random, but I play it in sprint

 

 

 

 

 

You could argue that the 4 point Fire Prevention with its 10% lower risk of catching fire and maximum 3 fires could be traded for 3 point Basics of Surivability along with 1 point expert loader

Three fires are bad enough but the 15% shorter burn duration along with the India yankee 20% shorter burn goes a long way.

 ( getting 4 fires set on u is an instant death sentence if you have used your damage control and in randoms there are a lot of fire breathing dragon ships from tier 6 to 10 )

You could also get both Fire Prevention and basics of survivability by trading away Basic firing Training, you would have all the tankyness and still have the secondairy gun range.  

Another point is the Superintendant skill 3 points, are you gonna live long enough to use that last heal / hydro /spotter ?

In sprint the risk of multiple firestarters is of course less 

 

This is how I have had My Bis recently

 

 

[rnat]

1 hour ago, Ronchabale said:

This is how I have had My Bis recently 

A Secondary build without manual secondaries on something other than the Mass/Georgia seems highly questionable to me.

Am I correct in assuming that you struggle to get any decent amount of secondary hits in an average battle ?

[Ronchabale]

46 minutes ago, rnat said:

A Secondary build without manual secondaries on something other than the Mass/Georgia seems highly questionable to me.

Am I correct in assuming that you struggle to get any decent amount of secondary hits in an average battle ?

I have been burned to a cinder by smolensks and ships like that, thus this build, secondairis fire all directions without input and do less damage yes, I do however survive longer 

As I said the Superintendant and Expert loader could be swapped to manual secondairies still keeping Basic and Advanced fring training along with basics of survivability but the u have the risk of the Smolensk, HE focus and 4 fires etc .

The MAssa has the fast recycling of heals so it is a much better ship in the current meta, Bis is sadly a bit outdated

 

 

Dont play Bis much, mostly play DD:s and I am trying to master the Zaö

[rnat]

1 hour ago, Ronchabale said:

I have been burned to a cinder by smolensks and ships like that, thus this build, secondairis fire all directions without input and do less damage yes, I do however survive longer 

As I said the Superintendant and Expert loader could be swapped to manual secondairies still keeping Basic and Advanced fring training along with basics of survivability

If you don't think you'll survive the HE-spam why go "mostly secondary" to begin with instead of going for even more tankyness ?

Imo if you don't want to invest into manual secondaries AFT and BFT are a waste of points to begin with since you're buffing a squad of drunk, hollywood-certified stormtroopers manning your guns.

Also the thing you should cancel if you want "mostly secondary focused" builds is BFT, not ManSecondaries ('cept again on the Massa and Georgia) since the extra accuracy is the thing holding that build together.

[Ronchabale]

12 minutes ago, rnat said:

If you don't think you'll survive the HE-spam why go "mostly secondary" to begin with instead of going for even more tankyness ?

Imo if you don't want to invest into manual secondaries AFT and BFT are a waste of points to begin with since you're buffing a squad of drunk, hollywood-certified stormtroopers manning your guns.

Also the thing you should cancel if you want "mostly secondary focused" builds is BFT, not ManSecondaries ('cept again on the Massa and Georgia) since the extra accuracy is the thing holding that build together.

Yes, true, also the secondairy battery mod 1 is a downgrade to your main weapons and being able to hit less at range isnt good, there are many aspects to consider with Bis builds,  sadly it aint what it used to be.

Whay build would you reccommend ?

 

[rnat]

39 minutes ago, Ronchabale said:

Whay build would you reccommend ?

If you find fires are a problem for you go standard tank-build.
https://wowsft.com/ship?index=PGSB108&modules=1222&upgrades=144120&commander=PCW001&skills=2183218177&ar=100&consumables=1111

[Beastofwar]

3 hours ago, rnat said:

A Secondary build without manual secondaries on something other than the Mass/Georgia seems highly questionable to me.

Am I correct in assuming that you struggle to get any decent amount of secondary hits in an average battle ?

 

The "mistake" you make is you assume you want to damage or kill BB or Cruisers with it Massachussets style.

 

Manual secondaries + AFT + BFT are used to kill DD while you simultaniously fight larger targets with the main guns when you are done with long range standoff combat and have to close in to get caps mid/late match.

 

It works for every BB and is especially effective if you have tagged the DD on the 1st oppertunity you get no matter the range, even when it disappears for half the match thereafter. The secondaries will automaticly open up ( because you tagged it beforehand ) with quick reaction, very lethal  accuracy and high dps to any DD that want to jump you. This is a huge advantage as BB main guns will probably fail to turn to fire on it in time. And even when you are in time, probably miss most shells at close ranges.

 

Of course, when that DD can torpedo you you will have to prevent that with evasive action, but it will be under continuous well aimed fire from the secondaries. Due to DD low HP it won't last long under that.

 

It is no wonder weapon but it will save you often enough from preying DD mid/late match when you need to cap yourself because others are dead/off somewhere where they dont help win the match. For me it is worth more then being killed slightly slower by fires ( ""survivability build" ) that can be prevented/shortened by tactics and playing style. Anti-burn build won't save you from torpedos afterall....

[rnat]

22 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

The "mistake" you make is you assume you want to damage or kill BB or Cruisers with it Massachussets style.

 

Manual secondaries + AFT + BFT are used to kill DD while you fight larger targets with the main guns when you are done with long range standoff combat and have to close in to get caps mid/late match. 

 

It works for every BB and is especially effective if you have tagged the DD on the 1st oppertunity you get no matter the range, even when it disappears for half the match thereafter. The secondaries will automaticly open up with very lethal  accuracy and dps to any DD that want to jump you. This is a huge advantage as BB main guns will probably fail to turn to fire on it in time. And even when you are in time, probably miss most shells at close ranges.

 

Of course, when that DD can torpedo you you will have to prevent that with evasive action, but it will be under continuous well aimed fire from the secondaries. Due to DD low HP it won't last long under that.

Either secondaries are useful or not.

The scenario you described of only focusing the secondaries on a DD means that they will do f*ck all in ~80% of all matches,

since the scenario you described (a dd rushing you while spotted all the time) is relatively rare in my experience.

And even with manual secondaries the accuracy is mediocre at best, the saving grace being the sheer amount of shells thrown out.

 

So you propose investing in secondaries so they can sit there and look pretty (and not do much else) in the vast majority of games ?

All the while giving up at least 8 skill points ? No takers.

[Ronchabale]

30 minutes ago, rnat said:

If you find fires are a problem for you go standard tank-build.
https://wowsft.com/ship?index=PGSB108&modules=1222&upgrades=144120&commander=PCW001&skills=2183218177&ar=100&consumables=1111

 

With this build that you suggest  I may as well play the North Carolina

 

[ollonborre]

27 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

 

The "mistake" you make is you assume you want to damage or kill BB or Cruisers with it Massachussets style.

 

Manual secondaries + AFT + BFT are used to kill DD while you simultaniously fight larger targets with the main guns when you are done with long range standoff combat and have to close in to get caps mid/late match.

 

It works for every BB and is especially effective if you have tagged the DD on the 1st oppertunity you get no matter the range, even when it disappears for half the match thereafter. The secondaries will automaticly open up ( because you tagged it beforehand ) with quick reaction, very lethal  accuracy and high dps to any DD that want to jump you. This is a huge advantage as BB main guns will probably fail to turn to fire on it in time. And even when you are in time, probably miss most shells at close ranges.

 

Of course, when that DD can torpedo you you will have to prevent that with evasive action, but it will be under continuous well aimed fire from the secondaries. Due to DD low HP it won't last long under that.

 

It is no wonder weapon but it will save you often enough from preying DD mid/late match when you need to cap yourself because others are dead/off somewhere where they dont help win the match. For me it is worth more then being killed slightly slower by fires ( ""survivability build" ) that can be prevented/shortened by tactics and playing style. Anti-burn build won't save you from torpedos afterall....

Like @rnat said, you either build around secondaries, or you don't. The point investment to even get them to be decent (AFT-MANSEC) is still pretty big at 8 points. Hybrid builds like I run on my GK with AFT-MANSEC-FP means I still have to invest a lot in to make secondaries work and still retain some form of durability.

 

When you spec into secondaries to just use them as a DD killing tool (a unreliable DD killing tool at that) you waste so so much potential. A secondary build should be used against all targets and you should play around it accordingly. If you don't you waste 8-12 points that could be put towards the infamous tank build that will work every game where as secondary builds rarely do with the same reliability.

[Beastofwar]

23 minutes ago, rnat said:

Either secondaries are useful or not.

The scenario you described of only focusing the secondaries on a DD means that they will do f*ck all in ~80% of all matches,

since the scenario you described (a dd rushing you while spotted all the time) is relatively rare in my experience.

And even with manual secondaries the accuracy is mediocre at best, the saving grace being the sheer amount of shells thrown out.

 

So you propose investing in secondaries so they can sit there and look pretty (and not do much else) in the vast majority of games ?

All the while giving up at least 8 skill points ? No takers.

 

I said i do not close in untill mid/late match AND other team mates are not helpful in taking needed caps to win. That is the majority of all of the matches where mid match you could still win by capping.

 

DD rush off after a CV to torpedo them personally, as do Cruisers and BB simply ignoring the caps and thereby blowing the match......rest of the BB and/or SuperCruisers linger somewhere at the back map edge not even being able to cap anything any time soo as they too are too far out. ......recognise such behaviour ?

 

In normal BB you are at an extreme disadvantage taking on caps with lurking DD still there somewhere, if no allied cruisers can help you as your main guns turn too slow. Enhanced secondaries then make all the difference.

 

Taking caps mid game is just normal every match usefulness provided your team was not obliterated, or you YOLO'ed into a storm of HE fire burning you down.  But you dont need a survivablity build for long range standoff battle untill you can close in.....just good marksman skills and some evasive turning.

 

Not usefull ? I think they are much more usefull then the behaviour i described of my fellow BB captains with different builds.....often ignoring caps with BB all together. That could be because they know they do not fare well there with their unsuitable/unhelpful build. Maybe they are of the opnion if friendly DD got killed they lost already.....very unproductive attitude that.....

 

 

 

 

[rnat]

21 minutes ago, Ronchabale said:

With this build that you suggest  I may as well play the North Carolina

Bisco still plays differently from the NC, it's just that the build is very universal amongst BBs.

If you want to spec into secondaries by all means do so, but don't skimp on AFT or Manual Secondaries

 

17 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

In normal BB you are at an extreme disadvantage taking on caps with lurking DD still there somewhere, if no allied cruisers can help you. Enhanced secondaries then make all the difference.

17 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

Not usefull ? I think they are much more usefull then the behaviour i described of my fellow BB captains with different builds.....often ignoring caps all together. That could be because they know they do not fare well there.

In ANY BB you are at a disadvantage against a lurking DD.

The main problem here NOT being that your main guns are inaccurate or that your reload is long,

but rather that you simply have no way to spot the bugger unless you get support from friendly DDs, radar cruisers or a CV.

And secondaries do squat in compensating for that in any way shape or form.

 

So sorry mate. It's not that I don't see where secondaries are useful,

it's that the use-case you describe is uncommon and wastes their potential while pretending they do something they can not.