TK or not TK...

[MementoMori_6030]

A few minutes ago, I had my finger hovering above my mouse button and was struggling with the decision to torp my own teammate. To win the game. Because they were actively preventing it.

 

I sat in my DD with another DD comfortably in the enemy cap. We were undetected. There was no enemy ship within 10km around us. We had smoke. We had time. The cap counter was already down to single digits. We were behind in ships and points, but our cap was still safe and the enemy cap was about to be taken. Victory was in our grasp.

 

Then two half-wrecked cruisers of my team entered the cap, all the time time firing at distant enemies and giving away their positions. They got hit in return. Over and over. The cap timer reset and reset again. The enemy was closing. My frustration was growing. I asked them to either leave the cap and die outside or stop shooting and go dark - to no avail. One cruiser died. My torps were loaded and ready. Killing the other idiot would cost us points, but we would still win the game.

 

I did not fire. We lost.

 

Right decision? I am not sure.

[Kenjiro_]

Your timer doesn't reset when teammates get hit. Each ship in cap contributes separate capture points. And when a ship gets hit, only that particular ship's contribution is reset.. 

[BrusilovX]

3 minutes ago, Kenjiro_ said:

Your timer doesn't reset when teammates get hit. Each ship in cap contributes separate capture points. And when a ship gets hit, only that particular ship's contribution is reset.. 

Exactly.

 

If the timer was being reset maybe the cruisers got close to one or both of the DDs and a shot aimed at a cruiser hit one of the DDs.   But that is not what the OP posted,

[invicta2012]

55 minutes ago, MementoMori_6030 said:

 

Right decision? I am not sure.

It was. By firing, you would have given your position away, so negating your reason for being angry with teammates.

[GulvkluderGuld]

25 minutes ago, Kenjiro_ said:

Your timer doesn't reset when teammates get hit. Each ship in cap contributes separate capture points. And when a ship gets hit, only that particular ship's contribution is reset.. 

If someone capping is reset, the entire capping process takes longer.

 

EDIT: added arithemetics:

According to the wiki: https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Game_Modes

If one ship is in the cap it takes 3 mins to cap, if 2 or more are in the cap it is captured in 2 mins (standard battle)

 

So if points are split evenly (which i dont know?)

1 ships earns 1/180 points*sec

2+ ships each earn 1,5/180 points*sec divided by X where X is the amount of ships.

 

Thus if 4 ships are in the cap and 2 getting reset constantly, the net point gain by the remaining ships is actually 

1,5/180 points*sec *2/4 (two of four ships accruing points) = 0,75/180 points/sec.

 

That means in OPs situation takes closer to ~4 minutes to cap out compared to just 3 with only one ship in the cap circle.

 

17 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

It was. By firing, you would have given your position away, so negating your reason for being angry with teammates.

Firing torpedoes does not get you spotted like firing guns.

1 hour ago, MementoMori_6030 said:

I did not fire. We lost.

 

Right decision? I am not sure.

sometimes there is no right decision.

Abide by the rules and lose, or break the rules to win.

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

10 minutes ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

If someone capping is reset, the entire capping process takes longer.

 

Provide us with your source?

[Kenjiro_]

9 minutes ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

If someone capping is reset, the entire capping process takes longer.

 

Yes but OP thinks he cannot cap at all while teammates get hit. That's not the case.. 

[MementoMori_6030]

Just checked the replay. The other DD left the cap half a second before 0, so the timer jumped back to 20something, and then the cruisers got hit nullifying the contribution, too, and by the time the cap was imminent again, the enemies had already homed in and stopped it. Good thing I did not torp, though it still was a terrible bungle that we lost that game.

[GulvkluderGuld]

4 minutes ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

Provide us with your source?

Edited post above with simple arithemetics based on the Wiki.

4 minutes ago, Kenjiro_ said:

Yes but OP thinks he cannot cap at all while teammates get hit. That's not the case.. 

I thought the problem was enemy ships closing in to step on the cap and the delay was making this a real possibility.

[Lieut_Gruber]

If other ship enter cap zone, the cap time decreases. If they get hit, they lose the points they have gathered, but your own amount of points stays intact.

[lafeel]

20 minutes ago, MementoMori_6030 said:

Just checked the replay. The other DD left the cap half a second before 0, so the timer jumped back to 20something, and then the cruisers got hit nullifying the contribution, too, and by the time the cap was imminent again, the enemies had already homed in and stopped it. Good thing I did not torp, though it still was a terrible bungle that we lost that game.

 

Well there's your problem, and answer. Even if you had torped you wouldn't have solved anything.

[Johnny_Moneto]

A defeat snatched from the jaws of victory.

[MementoMori_6030]

Vor 1 Stunde, lafeel sagte:

Well there's your problem, and answer. Even if you had torped you wouldn't have solved anything.

So I lost despite I did everything right. Now, THAT's a motivation!

[El2aZeR]

2 hours ago, Kenjiro_ said:

Yes but OP thinks he cannot cap at all while teammates get hit. That's not the case.. 

 

Actually a reddit post proved that capping takes far longer if a ship is constantly reset even while other ships are in the cap.

 

EDIT:

 

 

[lafeel]

59 minutes ago, MementoMori_6030 said:

So I lost despite I did everything right. Now, THAT's a motivation!

It happens.

[Kenjiro_]

9 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Actually a reddit post proved that capping takes far longer if a ship is constantly reset even while other ships are in the cap.

 

EDIT:

 

 

 

"%33 longer" still beats "not at all" :)

[TheComedian1983]

Před 9 minutami El2aZeR řekl/a:

 

Actually a reddit post proved that capping takes far longer if a ship is constantly reset even while other ships are in the cap.

As a DD player i allways smeling  something strange in this mechanics....

Anyway. Pink is just a color and i have a personal rule. Kill ALL enemies. Even if they are green. And my WR is still groving

[CptBarney]

Sometimes no matter what you do you will just lose anyways, kinda sucks but yeah.

even more prevalent when your team only takes up one side of the map for some strange and arbitrary reason.

[El2aZeR]

50 minutes ago, Kenjiro_ said:

"%33 longer" still beats "not at all" :)

 

Ofc, but that is not to say that this cannot cost you the win.

 

47 minutes ago, TheComedian1983 said:

As a DD player i allways smeling  something strange in this mechanics....

 

Edited in in the post above.

[Capra76]

1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Actually a reddit post proved that capping takes far longer if a ship is constantly reset even while other ships are in the cap

 

So, if I'm reading this right, the team gets more cap points if there's two ships in the cap, but those points get split between the ships, so if one ship keeps getting reset then the overall cap takes longer.

 

I wonder what happens if you have say 6 ships in a cap and 5 of them keep getting reset.

[GulvkluderGuld]

50 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Ofc, but that is not to say that this cannot cost you the win.

 

 

Edited in in the post above.

Thx for supplying the experimental data. It fits theory. 

WG did it again. Counterintuitive mechanics.

11 minutes ago, Capra76 said:

So, if I'm reading this right, the team gets more cap points if there's two ships in the cap, but those points get split between the ships, so if one ship keeps getting reset then the overall cap takes longer.

The truly interesting question is what happens if even more ships are in the caps. This will depend on how cap points are awarded (evenly distributed fraction of a point every second, or rotation with different ship every 1 to X seconds).

[Deckeru_Maiku]

12 minutes ago, Capra76 said:

 

So, if I'm reading this right, the team gets more cap points if there's two ships in the cap, but those points get split between the ships, so if one ship keeps getting reset then the overall cap takes longer.

 

I wonder what happens if you have say 6 ships in a cap and 5 of them keep getting reset.

which will get added fun, as it's supposed to be only three ships adding up their cap-ability (^^) to the counter.

So...

six ships in cap.

three - which ones isn't that clear.. probably the first three in? - add their cap points

five are getting shot at..

 

Someone with too much free time should test this ^^

[22cm]

12 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

Actually a reddit post proved that capping takes far longer if a ship is constantly reset even while other ships are in the cap.

That is exactly how it has always felt, just based on my own experience. You can still cap, but slower. 

Now, from what i remember, only the first 3 ships in a cap are actually getting capping points (like the capping speed stays the same after 3 ships are capping and does not increase even if all 12 ships are capping). 

So the case when there are 4 ships in cap and only one (the same one) under constant fire, is worth testing. 

 

[Gebe_]

13 hours ago, Lieut_Gruber said:

If other ship enter cap zone, the cap time decreases. If they get hit, they lose the points they have gathered, but your own amount of points stays intact.

Nope. It takes longer to cap than just capping solo. It's been proven a while ago, you can test it yourself.

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

@GulvkluderGuld Iwas wrong. You were right indeed. Much appreciated!