German cruisers - worth it?

[Nexio_]

Friends, I really want to try the German cruisers, but I hear many complaints about powercreep. Is it still worth grinding nowadays or should I just forget about the entire German tree ?

[Pikkozoikum]

I think the german lines are all good, but not too op or too strong. Do you want them, because you just like them, or is there another goal. e.g. for clan battles etc?

[kfa]

The only T10 cruiser I didnt bother to grind is the Hindenburg 😄

 

It has the worst HE of them all, and those quality AP shells only work against potatobroadside. 

[Hanse77SWE]

Just now, kfa said:

The only T10 cruiser I didnt bother to grind is the Hindenburg 😄

 

It has the worst HE of them all, and those quality AP shells only work against potatobroadside. 

I wouldn't consider 1/4 penn "the worst".

[Nexio_]

4 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

I think the german lines are all good, but not too op or too strong. Do you want them, because you just like them, or is there another goal. e.g. for clan battles etc?

I'm just looking for fun, really. Plus, I really want to try a German line, but it seems like all 3 of them are just not really good.

[MementoMori_6030]

German cruisers? Like the Admiral Makarov?

[Pikkozoikum]

Just now, Nexio_ said:

I'm just looking for fun, really. Plus, I really want to try a German line, but it seems like all 3 of them are just not really good.

Hmm, I think the germans are good for beginners especially, since they are a bit tankier than most. Though that doesn't mean to play risky.
I think you can have a lot fun with those ships and for a casual player it doesn't matter, that those ship might be a little bit weaker. It's more about real competitive play, where clans pick the best ships and then you would look for the best obviously.

Though in ranked with T9 I ranked out with the T9 german BB quite effectivly and the BBs got now a buff

 

[Nexio_]

9 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Hmm, I think the germans are good for beginners especially, since they are a bit tankier than most. Though that doesn't mean to play risky.
I think you can have a lot fun with those ships and for a casual player it doesn't matter, that those ship might be a little bit weaker. It's more about real competitive play, where clans pick the best ships and then you would look for the best obviously.

Though in ranked with T9 I ranked out with the T9 german BB quite effectivly and the BBs got now a buff

 

So, German cruisers are pretty solid for *random* battles, yeah? Wrecking stuff in German ships while blasting Rammstein seems my idea of a good time 

[Panocek]

German cruisers in general have increased HE penetration at expense of shell damage. Thus, they can deal reliable, if chip damage to most targets they can lay their guns at. On other hand, German AP on DD and cruiser calibers deals substantial amount of damage - even if you can't land citadels, you can inflict a lot of hurt from regular penetrations. German cruiser guns also combine lightweight shells with high velocity, which in practice means their penetration and shell flight time drops off noticeably with range, something worth keeping in mind.

 

Up to and including tier 6 (Nurnberg) they are all light cruisers with rather quick reloading 15cm guns and absolute glass for armor (both plating thickness and citadel position). Tier 5 and 6 have quirky two turrets in the back, one at the front layout, which can prove annoying when "advancing" and you want to keep yourself angled. On other hand, rear turrets have 360 traverse, so shifting broadsides is quick.

 

From tier 7 they turn into heavy cruisers with 203mm guns and usual traits so far follows - heavy AP damage with quickly diminishing penetration and subpar HE damage, albeit with 51mm penetration, so almost all battleships are viable targets to sprinkle HE at. From tier 8 they gain (in)famous tankiness, which stems not from plating thickness, but from well hidden citadel, protected by turtleback armor, making them disturbingly difficult to citadel at short to medium distances. 27mm hull plating also helps with ricocheting 380mm armed battleships, any bigger guns will overmatch bow anyway though.

 

Tier 9, Roon is essentially upscaled Nurnberg with 203mm guns and hidden citadel, doesn't have 360 traverse on rear turrets unfortunately. Hindenburg I'd say is easy to get some results due to 12gun salvo with quick-ish reload, high HE penetration and decent base range, but she, just like German BB line are short to mid range brawlers shoehorned into long range standoff meta, where both teams are scared to press W

 

Fun fact - Admiral Hipper class, despite having 16k tons of displacement have only 80mm main belt and only 8 guns. Baltimores had less displacement, almost doubled main armor belt (152mm) and 9 guns in better armored turrets. Muh German overengineering.

[Pikkozoikum]

1 minute ago, Nexio_ said:

So, German cruisers are pretty solid for *random* battles, yeah? Wrecking stuff in German ships while blasting Rammstein seems my idea of a good time 

Well, there are better ships, but I would also assume, that even the worst ships in this game are still enjoyable ;)

[Butterdoll]

30 minutes ago, Nexio_ said:

Friends, I really want to try the German cruisers, but I hear many complaints about powercreep. Is it still worth grinding nowadays or should I just forget about the entire German tree ?

try it.

I have them and I like them, Nurnberg is one of my top picks.

But only you can tell, if you like it or not.

[HaachamaShipping]

30 minutes ago, kfa said:

The only T10 cruiser I didnt bother to grind is the Hindenburg 😄

 

It has the worst HE of them all, and those quality AP shells only work against potatobroadside. 

HE dpm comparable to Zao, pen that is on a level with supercruisers and can pen Kremlin with IFHE. Thanks to shell output, even the fire setting isn't terrible and the only advantage Zao has in gunnery over the Hindenburg is its accuracy. Cruisers like Henri, Moskva and obviously Stalingrad get completely out-dpmed.

[kfa]

5 minutes ago, Sleepy_Bunny said:

HE dpm comparable to Zao, pen that is on a level with supercruisers and can pen Kremlin with IFHE. Thanks to shell output, even the fire setting isn't terrible and the only advantage Zao has in gunnery over the Hindenburg is its accuracy. Cruisers like Henri, Moskva and obviously Stalingrad get completely out-dpmed.

Exactly thats why it is highly popular in clan battles... /sarcasm

I think i have seen more Minotaurs than Hindenburgs 😄

[Fonfalks]

50 minutes ago, Nexio_ said:

Friends, I really want to try the German cruisers, but I hear many complaints about powercreep. Is it still worth grinding nowadays or should I just forget about the entire German tree ?

F NO. JUST FFFFFFF NO. Hindi used to be good ship, but now it is just trash. Sure you can get lucky in certain situations and even have devastating strikes on some ships if they show you sides, but at this day and age of maps covered with smoke and FFFFFFFFFFF SMOLENSKS endlessly filling sky with shells you will be nothing but target for fire practice. 

If you want to enjoy cruisers you have ONLY two options - RUS OP ships or US OP ships, rest is pure manure, garbage and vomit compared to them. 

[HaachamaShipping]

1 minute ago, kfa said:

Exactly thats why it is highly popular in clan battles... /sarcasm

I think i have seen more Minotaurs than Hindenburgs 😄

The reason it is unpopular is because of the meta in CB. Hindenburg fell out of meta when Henri got buffed to basically do a similar job, while being more mobile and Hindenburg lost dpm to be considerably behind Zao. Currently, it has caught up with Zao again, but it cannot claim the mobility of a Henri, nor is it going to compete with Stalingrad or Smolensk. It is without role in CB, kind of like where CB left the likes of Minotaur, Yoshino and Worcester and where it might leave Zao and even Henri some day, if CVs become more prominent and Kremlin becomes the normal BB. In randoms though, Hindenburg still works.

[Perekotypole]

yorck was my favorite T7 cruiser... Fiji is stronger, mostly cause no radars, but yorck was fun to play

[Nexio_]

18 minutes ago, Sleepy_Bunny said:

The reason it is unpopular is because of the meta in CB. Hindenburg fell out of meta when Henri got buffed to basically do a similar job, while being more mobile and Hindenburg lost dpm to be considerably behind Zao. Currently, it has caught up with Zao again, but it cannot claim the mobility of a Henri, nor is it going to compete with Stalingrad or Smolensk. It is without role in CB, kind of like where CB left the likes of Minotaur, Yoshino and Worcester and where it might leave Zao and even Henri some day, if CVs become more prominent and Kremlin becomes the normal BB. In randoms though, Hindenburg still works.

I see. You seem pretty experienced, would you say I should go for the USN Heavy Cruisers instead? I'm already on the Tier 8 Mogami, more than halfway there to the Ibuki, but I want to pause the line and go for USN Heavy Cruisers.

[HaachamaShipping]

1 minute ago, Nexio_ said:

I see. You seem pretty experienced, would you say I should go for the USN Heavy Cruisers instead? I'm already on the Tier 8 Mogami, more than halfway there to the Ibuki, but I want to pause the line and go for USN Heavy Cruisers.

Whether you go for Zao, Hindenburg or Des Moines as first T10 cruiser is up to you. All three are decent in randoms. You can also try around and see how they are in the T6-8 to see if you like their playstyle and to gather experience. T10 isn't something you have to get asap. The main consideration would be for potential clan battles if your clan does those, where Des Moines would be best, but even then, having some battle experience in multiple lines is more helpful than what ship you bring.

[DFens_666]

1 hour ago, Nexio_ said:

Friends, I really want to try the German cruisers, but I hear many complaints about powercreep. Is it still worth grinding nowadays or should I just forget about the entire German tree ?

 

While i only played a couple of Hindenburg games this year, its still my highest damage Cruiser. Hindenburg is definetely decent even nowadays. But i think, the lower tiers tend to struggle a bit more.

[Nexio_]

9 minutes ago, Sleepy_Bunny said:

Whether you go for Zao, Hindenburg or Des Moines as first T10 cruiser is up to you. All three are decent in randoms. You can also try around and see how they are in the T6-8 to see if you like their playstyle and to gather experience. T10 isn't something you have to get asap. The main consideration would be for potential clan battles if your clan does those, where Des Moines would be best, but even then, having some battle experience in multiple lines is more helpful than what ship you bring.

I don't really think my clan does any CBs. it's a very inactive clan from the looks of it, but at least they have some clan bonuses which help a lot

 

Guess I'll test out the USN Heavy Cruisers then. Was thinking Brits, but perhaps my experience of around 400 battles isn't enough to tame them yet. :D

[_V_I_X_]

Hindenburg is amazing, oh wait ^^ on the contrary they are tanky sometimes brawlers good snipers, its nice tho in todays meta quite useless, but fun, but useless

 

[pen_15]

45 minutes ago, Sleepy_Bunny said:

HE dpm comparable to Zao, pen that is on a level with supercruisers and can pen Kremlin with IFHE. Thanks to shell output, even the fire setting isn't terrible and the only advantage Zao has in gunnery over the Hindenburg is its accuracy. Cruisers like Henri, Moskva and obviously Stalingrad get completely out-dpmed.

That's true when you only look numbers. In reality it has not so good dispersion that you will get used to 825 dmg full broadside volleys. Meanwhile things like Zao throws reliably 5-10K volleys. Hindenburg has very good AP dmg but is very situational. It is a good brawler, but how much this game promotes brawling in the current meta?

[Elypse201]

1 hour ago, Nexio_ said:

Friends, I really want to try the German cruisers, but I hear many complaints about powercreep. Is it still worth grinding nowadays or should I just forget about the entire German tree ?

How i love to answer this question !

The Königsberg/Nürnberg are CL's with 150mm and very squishy. They have a very good range and are good ships overall if you don't get punished for stupid plays. (which can occure very fast)
The T7 Yorck is very unique. The Guns get upgraded to 210mm. Yorck is still a squishy cruiser and easy to citadel. She has a long range as well and has the highest HE alpha from the entire line. The Yorck wants to operate on distances like 12 - 15km. On max range you will barely hit anything and when an enemy is coming to close you will get blapped very easily.
T8 hipper gets the normal 203mm guns that you will have from T8 to 10. Hipper has a fairly small citadel (had a good AA Suite) and many torpedoes. Like every other german you have good range and the shell balistics are completly alright. Not Railguns like the russians, but not mortars like the americans. It's a good mix. Her DMG outputt is very weak and overall she just don't have the armament to keep up with any other T8 cruiser.
Now comes to fun T9 Roon. She is probably my fav. T9 cruiser overall. The upgrades on the gun are imo. massive. you get 3x3 203mm turrets with a layout that you have 2 on the end and 1 on the front. Also her citadel is almost non existend. Very tanky, very good ship. Very underestimated.
That's for the ships now let's look at the unique things the german have.
All germans have an installed IFHE buff/debuff. That means your HE can penetrate easier the targets but will deal significant reduced damage. You just need to get used to it. On the other hand is the german AP. This may seems like a two edged sword. Here you can see that i am in my roon and shot a FdG on fairly long range:

Spoiler

The enemy needs to be completly broadside. Then the AP can deal damage which is beyond good and evil BUT even when the enemy is slightly angled it will just bounce. You don't care if it's an enemy BB or a Cruiser. As you may see that was on a BB without a citadel and just a good salvo with a few penetrations. TL;DR: BB AP dmg with cruiser reload.
All german cruisers are also equipped with an upgraded hydro. That reaches in the higher tier 6km for ship detection and 4km of torpedo detection. You also get other then any other cruiser 3 charges of the repair party at T9 which you can improve by 2 via SI and premium consumable.
I am not at the Hindenburg, because i don't want to. I am completly fine with my Roon and do not want to get the Hinden.

The german cruisers are interesting to play i would say the playstyle is changing many times trough the entire line so you have a good amount of variety. I would say just to play them they are not hard and maaybe something for beginners. But to master them you need to be advanced in the game and have a good knowledge about the game. When a Roon or Hindenburg is played well they are a very scary beasts that you shouldn't underestimate.




 

[Widar_Thule]

1 hour ago, Nexio_ said:

Friends, I really want to try the German cruisers, but I hear many complaints about powercreep. Is it still worth grinding nowadays or should I just forget about the entire German tree ?

 

The answer to your question is really simple. For the next ten to twenty matches that you play take screen shots of the After Action Reports / Score Board. Then when you are done take a look at where German ships usually end up on the score board in your matches. If they are constantly in the top 3, or even top 5 then they might be good in "your" world. In "my" world German ships usually end up at the bottom of the score list in the After Action Reports.

 

[DFens_666]

5 minutes ago, pen_15 said:

That's true when you only look numbers. In reality it has not so good dispersion that you will get used to 825 dmg full broadside volleys. Meanwhile things like Zao throws reliably 5-10K volleys. Hindenburg has very good AP dmg but is very situational. It is a good brawler, but how much this game promotes brawling in the current meta?

 

All normal Cruisers have same dispersion, except IJN Cruisers got better one.

To the last part: Conserve your health the endgame, Then go in and [edited]everything when you cant get crossfired anymore