Thanks for this great gaming experience...again

[RivvenDarke]

Hello WG,

still busy counting the players you lost with your PR disaster? If not, I can tell you why all your recruitment incentives do little to get new players in the game. Or at least to keep them playing. Nobody considers it funny to die and die and die without even the chance to do anything in the game.

Yeah, im talking about CVs on low tier here. All the nice stock T3 and T4 ships with AA values from 0-5 and on the other side all those seal clubbers in their Hoshos. And NO, your great plan to hard cap at 2 but "maybe still 3 if it takes too long" is totally pointless. If anything you need a hard cap at 1 CV per side at least for T4 games.

When all those sealclubber jerks feel great to kill new players in defenseless ships they should at least have to wait a while for it.

Oh and btw here is a picture of my last game - could show you dozens of those. I waited about 4 minutes at 11 a.m. to get THIS - a solid 9 vs 9 with 3 CVs per side and me in the only DD. Another zero damage game....thx for the fun. Rant out.     

 

 

[GarrusBrutus]

Triple cv? No thanks! 

[bushwacker001]

13 minutes ago, RivvenDarke said:

 

When all those sealclubber jerks feel great to kill new players in defenseless ships they should at least have to wait a while for it.

Oh and btw here is a picture of my last game - could show you dozens of those. I waited about 4 minutes at 11 a.m. to get THIS - a solid 9 vs 9 with 3 CVs per side and me in the only DD. Another zero damage game....thx for the fun. Rant out.     

 

 

None of the enemy CV's in this shot can be classed as seal clubbers tbh.....all 3 very red. You would probably have died even faster if they were. 

[ArnieDude]

It still is disgusting though. Unbelievable how WG just let this situation continue. But it has been mentioned before and the same is happening in WOT. They just don't give a crap. That much is very clear from how little they do about something like this.

[wot_2016_gunner]

I all honesty, I'm a CV player (i didn't kept the tier 4s, i have all three tier 6 and i'm close to unlocking the Shokaku) and i enjoy playning CVs, but i think that CV should be limited to only 1 per team regardless of anything; two or even three are just too much to bare for any ship. Against only one; you can kind of deal with it, if you have some team work and/or air cover (i know that low tier ships have very little AA, but if you stay close to your allies you might survive longer due to AA overlap). Apologies to everybody that hates CVs (I love them) but i can't do anything to change them and i play the game as it is.

Besides, i just found another one of my magazines about ships, but i think this one will trigger a lot of people 

[whatever____]

I dont get the CV Raging, cmon they may be a little annoying but not really dangerous most of the time, Torp spam is way MORE annyoing.

I dont like games without.... waste of AA Slot.... but maybe WG should stop Put 2 or more in Teams

[ForlornSailor]

3 minutes ago, 1V3421T said:

I dont get the CV Raging, cmon they may be a little annoying but not really dangerous most of the time, Torp spam is way MORE annyoing.

 

Let me guess: you play BBs.

 

Edit: Surprise!

 

 

And another edit: how about you stop playing T6 / T8 BBs with your non-existent experiance? But now that I for once have a player like you here - can you finaly answer the question, what make you buy ships for ~ 100 euros in a game you have never played before?

[Hirohito]

The issue is not so much with 3x CVs on each side in the game, but more that 3 CV games happen in T4 in particular since CVs are OP as hell in T4. At the same time CVs are rather garbage to play at higher tiers (esp. T8) due to the AA (when uptiered) and you can't even join clan battles with them (or even minor things, such as grindable perma camos never applying to CVs, which takes some of the fun out when CVs are treated like second-class citizens). Since CVs however don't face any real AA at T4 (and were even buffed earlier this year, with things like twin torps), that causes a ton of CV players to dust off their boats at T4 for some ridiculously easy farming at those tiers. It's quite obvious when you queue up at T4 that there is a massive overrepresentation of CVs there, but once you queue up at T6 and higher there are all of a sudden very few CVs in the queue. I wonder why?

Imo the T4 CVs need to be nerfed for this to happen, while at the same time toning down some of the ridiculous AA at T8+ so that less CV players stop playing in the high tiers (and thus go seal clubbing at T4).

I'm by no means a good players, but personally I got into the super unicum range (72%+ win rate) with the friggin t4 Hermes, while I'm struggling a lot with the Shokaku at T8 simply because of the many T9-10 games where the Minotaurs, Des Moines, Worcesters, Neptunes, Kremlins, Republiques, Frieslands... (you get the gist) just makes life hell if you slip up your attention for a second.

[soralapio]

There should be a hard cap of one (1) CV per team regardless of tier.

 

And I say this as someone who really likes playing CVs. The AA/plane mechanics barely work as it is (swinging from completely useless to OP and back again depending on the tier, boat and CV), but when you throw in multiple CVs it all falls apart instantly. Imagine being a new player starting this game, and getting absolutely annihilated and dunked on by three CVs every game! 

[ForlornSailor]

21 minutes ago, Hirohito said:

At the same time CVs are rather garbage to play at higher tiers (esp. T8) due to the AA (when uptiered)

 

Not even that is true when you know how to play - (some) T8 CVs are still OP on T8, even beeing low tier.

 

22 minutes ago, Hirohito said:

which takes some of the fun out when CVs are treated like second-class citizens

 

Try playing classic DDs - then you know what a second-class citizen in this game really is.

 

23 minutes ago, Hirohito said:

It's quite obvious when you queue up at T4 that there is a massive overrepresentation of CVs there, but once you queue up at T6 and higher there are all of a sudden very few CVs in the queue. I wonder why?

 

Because people just love their easy wins. They dont care if they kill the community and thus the future of the game. And WG seems incapabale or unwilling to resolve the issue on T4. Lets face it: Hosho is been broken far too long now for that to be a mistake. She is here to stay, nobody knows why.

[Hirohito]

25 minutes ago, soralapio said:

There should be a hard cap of one (1) CV per team regardless of tier.

 

And I say this as someone who really likes playing CVs. The AA/plane mechanics barely work as it is (swinging from completely useless to OP and back again depending on the tier, boat and CV), but when you throw in multiple CVs it all falls apart instantly. Imagine being a new player starting this game, and getting absolutely annihilated and dunked on by three CVs every game! 

Very much agree, AA is a big contributor to this, since it's near non-existant at T4.
I do suspect that new CV players feel frustration too though.
After learning the basics of how to CV at T4, they in turn get absolutely annihilated when they unlock their first T6 and get shredded by T8 AA.
I myself remember how it took some real willpower on my part not to abandon CVs outright when I got repeatedly beat up in T6 by T8 AA.
Similarly, I can't really recall the last time we had more than 1 CV per side in T6+ games, as it's just a very rare thing to happen.
At t8+, even seeing a CV in a match is starting to become rare.

Current AA/CV mechanics need to be equalized across the board, it really messes up the game for all sides regardless of ship type.

[El2aZeR]

35 minutes ago, Hirohito said:

while at the same time toning down some of the ridiculous AA at T8+

 

- implying T8+ AA is not totally pathetic

 

[Hirohito]

6 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Not even that is true when you know how to play - (some) T8 CVs are still OP on T8, even beeing low tier.

 

This is true for the unicums, but so is every other ship type more or less when captained by a unicum.
Average players won't produce "OP" results when facing T10s in their T8 CV.

The problem with T4 CVs is however that any average potato can overperform in them.
I have never seen so many ingame Krakens recently, than by random Hosho players just torping everything to death.

It's just too easy.
And while Hosho is the worst offender here, Langley and to some extent Hermes are guilty of this as well.

[Hirohito]

1 minute ago, El2aZeR said:

 

- implying T8+ AA is not totally pathetic

 

If you are an unicum perhaps, but don't make the mistake of applying that logic for everyone else who does not happen to be on that level.
It took me over 80 games to finally start managing AA somewhat at T8 (slightly above average potato here), and I by no means produce "OP results" at that tier.
Maybe easy for you, but not for the average player.

[El2aZeR]

2 minutes ago, Hirohito said:

If you are an unicum perhaps, but don't make the mistake of applying that logic for everyone else who does not happen to be on that level.
It took me over 80 games to finally start managing AA somewhat at T8 (slightly above average potato here), and I by no means produce "OP results" at that tier.
Maybe easy for you, but not for the average player.

 

Why does that matter?

CV players have been harping about surface ship players all the time to "git gud" and "adapt". Why does this not apply to CV players?

So just git gud and adapt. You aren't a unicum? Become one. You can't? Then you simply don't deserve to perform.

[ForlornSailor]

1 minute ago, Hirohito said:

This is true for the unicums, but so is every other ship type more or less when captained by a unicum.

 

Well, to a degree I will agree but on the other hand - I disagree.

Let me explain.

A unicum CV player these days has the absolute freedom of choice what to attack where on the map. Its part of his skill to have a good target selection, which will help him (and his team) win the game. We already established, that such a player does not fear AA and this is infact his only opposition in game.

A unicum in a DD/BB/Cruiser does not have this freedom. Everytime he attacks, he is opposed to enemys that can and will damage him. There is no way for me while playing DD to strike the biggest threat on the enemy team, simply, becuase he might be out of reach. Also, I risk everytime beeing hit/sunk. There is no way to stop enemys from damaging me completly. Well, there is, if I steer my DD to A10, but then my impact on the outcome of the game is negative (and still, the only class that could reach me without problem is - CV). So yea, its not true for any other class captained by an unicum.

[Hirohito]

1 minute ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Well, to a degree I will agree but on the other hand - I disagree.

Let me explain.

A unicum CV player these days has the absolute freedom of choice what to attack where on the map. Its part of his skill to have a good target selection, which will help him (and his team) win the game. We already established, that such a player does not fear AA and this is infact his only opposition in game.

A unicum in a DD/BB/Cruiser does not have this freedom. Everytime he attacks, he is opposed to enemys that can and will damage him. There is no way for me while playing DD to strike the biggest threat on the enemy team, simply, becuase he might be out of reach. Also, I risk everytime beeing hit/sunk. There is no way to stop enemys from damaging me completly. Well, there is, if I steer my DD to A10, but then my impact on the outcome of the game is negative (and still, the only class that could reach me without problem is - CV). So yea, its not true for any other class captained by an unicum.

 

True, this is a design feature that of course treats CVs different by their very nature.
Perhaps they could add some "fuel" mechanic some time down the road, so that CVs would be less able to fly and cover the whole map, dunno.

 

3 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Why does that matter?

CV players have been harping about surface ship players all the time to "git gud" and "adapt". Why does this not apply to CV players?

So just git gud and adapt. You aren't a unicum? Become one. You can't? Then you simply don't deserve to perform.

This is relevant how?
What other CV players have said and not said over the years is not relevant to me, as this is one of my very first posts on this forum - ever.
I have said none of those things that "other CV players" have said.
I am not a great CV player, and my point therefore still stands - the AA for someone like me is severely punitive when uptiered, in fact so much that I can often produce much better results when playing a BB (which I have even less games and experience in). Yes, maybe the AA would be easy to deal with had I been a unicum, but this isn't the case per today. How does this detract from my point that AA is hard to deal with for someone who is not a unicum though?

In fact your last line reeks of arrogance towards us "lesser" players, which I must say I am quite disappointed by.
I certainly hope the forum isn't like this in general.

[El2aZeR]

10 minutes ago, Hirohito said:

Yes, maybe the AA would be easy to deal with had I been a unicum, but this isn't the case per today. How does this detract from my point that AA is hard to deal with for someone who is not a unicum though?

 

Except that was not your point. Your point was that high tier AA needs tuning down on the basis that bad to mediocre players such as yourself are unable to deal with it.

I am merely asking why this should be done. When terrible DD players complain about radar, we tell them to git gud. When terrible BB players complain about HE spam, we tell them to git gud. Yet when terrible CV players complain about AA, which btw has already been nerfed to the point of being worthless, we're supposed to agree and sympathise?

[Hirohito]

10 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Except that was not your point. Your point was that high tier AA needs tuning down on the basis that bad to mediocre players such as yourself are unable to deal with it.

I am merely asking why this should be done. When terrible DD players complain about radar, we tell them to git gud. When terrible BB players complain about HE spam, we tell them to git gud. Yet when terrible CV players complain about AA, we're supposed to agree and sympathise?

I did not specify the contents of how toning down that AA should be done, now did I?
"Toning down AA" could mean a whole different lot rather than just "reducing damage with X% amount", which of course would be a further buff to unicum CVs.
I am by now means an expert on the subject and how to accomplish this, but things can be tweaked to allow for a smoother experience for newer players, without having it being a buff to unicums.

An example from T4 of how you can nerf unicums without nerfing potatoes (not directly related to the point of AA above):
Nerfing the base concealment of T4 CVs (esp. Hosho) would be a unicum nerf, while hardly affecting new players.
The reason for this is that new CV players tend to run into a corner, launching planes from there and therefore drastically increasing the time spent flying to target. Unicum CVs sealclubbing at this tier know how to position appropriately closer to the front (while staying safe) within their concealment range.
Again this logic might not directly translate to higher tiers, but my point is that you can't assume my motives and solutions (which I didn't even state) like that, since of course I'm not advocating that unicums need further buffs at T10.

Anyway, no need to be hostile and arrogant when posting a reply.

[Phayk]

Yup, can attest to that. Tried to get a friend into the game, he had fun on T2, as soon as we met CVs and I explained to him how they worked he went "that's retarded" and went to bed. Never asked to play again.

 

Yeah, maybe the invulnerable, uncounterable anti-fun platforms with infinite range and spotting capability shouldn't be in the game, WG. 

[El2aZeR]

3 minutes ago, Hirohito said:

I am by now means an expert on the subject and how to accomplish this, but things can be tweaked to allow for a smoother experience for newer players, without having it being a buff to unicums.

 

Which naturally doesn't exist.

 

4 minutes ago, Hirohito said:

Nerfing the base concealment of T4 CVs (esp. Hosho) would be a unicum nerf, while hardly affecting new players.

 

On the contrary you have just ensured that potato CVs die in roves while unicum CVs remain unharmed. This is because unicum CVs will actually watch their concealment and reposition whereas bad and mediocre CVs will not.

 

6 minutes ago, Hirohito said:

Again this logic might not directly translate to higher tiers, but my point is that you can't assume my motives and solutions (which I didn't even state) like that, since of course I'm not advocating that unicums need further buffs at T10.

 

Then I suppose that just makes you naive as your goal of buffing bad while maintaining or even nerfing the performance of good CV players is inherently unreachable in the first place due to the way the rework is designed.

[DFens_666]

1 minute ago, Phayk said:

Yup, can attest to that. Tried to get a friend into the game, he had fun on T2, as soon as we met CVs and I explained to him how they worked he went "that's retarded" and went to bed. Never asked to play again.

 

Yeah, maybe the invulnerable, uncounterable anti-fun platforms with infinite range and spotting capability shouldn't be in the game, WG. 

 

WG would probably tell him to buy a T6-7-8-9 premium ship. Or better yet, buy a T8 CV

 

30 minutes ago, Hirohito said:

in fact so much that I can often produce much better results when playing a BB

Looking at your stats: No you dont. Shokaku is your best ship considering avg damage. Infact, 6 CVs are your top damage dealers (granted, 1 is RTS )

WR is mostly irrelevant due to low sample size.

[whatever____]

Vor 1 Stunde, ForlornSailor sagte:

 

Let me guess: you play BBs.

 

Edit: Surprise!

 

 

And another edit: how about you stop playing T6 / T8 BBs with your non-existent experiance? But now that I for once have a player like you here - can you finaly answer the question, what make you buy ships for ~ 100 euros in a game you have never played before?

Its always funny how the average 0815 Players in WoT and WoWs seems to never ever have heard anything of second accounts for maybe just fun and relax. But if you dont have other arguments i will not discuss with you any further

[Hirohito]

Just now, El2aZeR said:

On the contrary you have just ensured that potato CVs die in roves while unicum CVs remain unharmed. This is because unicum CVs will actually watch their concealment and reposition whereas bad and mediocre CVs will not.

Beg to differ.
Potato CVs tend to tuck themselves into a corner, where they tend to get spotted as late as possible. Which often works, it's just not an effective strategy for maximizing damage.
Unicums who reposition along the front lines (outside concealment) will however have less room to work with now.
I am not saying they would get spotted if they know how to reposition, but there would be less wiggle room since just forcing the concealment 2kms further back would increase flight time and overall safety of offensive positioning.
You might of course disagree, but it's quite obvious that the real seal clubbing CVs at T4 are abusing (especially the Hosho) through this mechanic.
The new/bad ones tend to sail far back as soon as the game starts, even when there is no immediate reason to do so.

[ForlornSailor]

36 minutes ago, Hirohito said:

I certainly hope the forum isn't like this in general.

 

Well, Id like to say it isnt but it can be on certain topics. Like CVs. Just to give you a small summery - f.e. the person you are criticizing for beeing rude has spent countless hours over years actually, trying to make WG aware of problems surrounding CVs. And he has the inside view, experiance and skill to be able to point out those things. Yet they never even made the first step to concider listening to him. On the other hand, he constantly has to deal with people in thos forum, that attack him for several reasons so at some point its understandable, he wears thin.

 

39 minutes ago, Hirohito said:

True, this is a design feature that of course treats CVs different by their very nature.
Perhaps they could add some "fuel" mechanic some time down the road, so that CVs would be less able to fly and cover the whole map, dunno.

 

Ive been dicussing and thinking about CVs for years now and ive come to one very simple conclusion: the core of the problem with this class is the survivability / K-D-ratio. You cant have a class in a multiplayer PvP-game, that goes on avg with a 3,x kill-death-ratio and survives 80% of the battle. This is not healthy in a PvP-environment and thats why people hate CVs (and why, at the same time CVs have such a huge impact). So if WG would adress this somehow, they solve all problems with the class. No rework would have been needed, because the very same core problem still persists.