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Myrmidon19

Yoshino for Coal

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I'm about 5k coal away from Yoshino (with coupon bonus) think I'll comfortably have enough to get there before the coupon expires as we still have a little while and before anyone screams "save it for steel" I have 1500 steel from a crate and have never played ranked so it's not really an issue. 

 

Had my eye on her for a while.... Friends are suggesting I spend coal on either a battleship or on Smolensk instead because I already have an Alaska and Yoshino is "fairly similar" in many regards... Although they are noticeably distinct in certain areas, I'm also 1 tier away from Moskva which is another fairly unique heavy cruiser although she has cruiser guns unlike the other 2. So I would have Alaska, Yoshino and Moskva but I do prefer cruisers as my main surface ship... And particularly steer towards the more heavy/large or more battlecruiser'esque types like Yoshino, Alaska and Azuma, the latter of which I'll free exp at some point. 

 

It's been a long grind on the coal front.... Who wants to inundate me with positive and negative reviews on Yoshino? Tips? Pros and cons?

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1 hour ago, Myrmidon19 said:

I already have an Alaska and Yoshino is "fairly similar" in many regards

Not really.. The are both completly different ships.

 

1 hour ago, Myrmidon19 said:

Who wants to inundate me with positive and negative reviews on Yoshino? Tips? Pros and cons?

I will just give you the pros and cons of the ship and then you need to decide.

Pros: 

- Awesome guns.

- high HE DMG

- accurate guns

- High velocite shells

- hillarious torpedos (20km)

- a lot of hp for an ijn CA

 

Cons: 

- Massive ship (meaning it will not turn nicly)

- Useless armor (it can brawl NOTHING. Alaska atleast can do that but yoshino NOP)

- mediocare detectablitiy (not really good compared to her ign counterpart)

- another copy ship that is 1 tier lower (AZUMA is also there and she has a bit better MM since she is T9)

- huge and useless citadel for a cruiser (yeah look at the 3d MODEL it's not even funny.)

 

Well that is for the moment so if you really want yoshino i would say you are buying technically a sniper. Since she cant get to close otherwise she eats cits like nothing.

So if you enjoy gameplay linke ZAO or CONQ then please go ahead and buy it. I know couple of friends who enjoy this ship BUT you will not be able to carry games with this ship.

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Alaska and Yoshino are similar as in both are large cruisers with +-305mm guns.

 

Main reason why NOT Yoshino - she is merely balanced in age of broken ships. Also she is disturbingly fragile due to her sticking out citadel, she just can't get close and personal without imploding

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Ok.. first things first..

 

Whoever told you that Alaska and Yoshino are fairly similar? Picture their faces or at least nicknames? You done that? Ok, good. Now never, ever listen to their wows-related advice again. No idea what they're on about, and probably don't really want to find out, either.

 

Secondly, Yoshino is just a kiting cruiser with bigger guns. Compared to Azuma, you get somewhat better armor and torps. I'd say to get her, if ships like Smolensk or Thunderer didn't exist. I'd pick one of those if I were you, both are far stronger choices, and if you want a really good IJN kiting cruiser just get a Zao which is on the whole probably still better than Yoshino. It is far more versatile thanks to it's combination of good stealth and maneuverability (can switch between long and short range play, Yoshino doesn't like getting close to anything, most of the time).

 

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33 minutes ago, Myrmidon19 said:

I'm about 5k coal away from Yoshino (with coupon bonus) think I'll comfortably have enough to get there before the coupon expires as we still have a little while and before anyone screams "save it for steel" I have 1500 steel from a crate and have never played ranked so it's not really an issue. 

 

Had my eye on her for a while.... Friends are suggesting I spend coal on either a battleship or on Smolensk instead because I already have an Alaska and Yoshino is "fairly similar" in many regards... Although they are noticeably distinct in certain areas, I'm also 1 tier away from Moskva which is another fairly unique heavy cruiser although she has cruiser guns unlike the other 2. So I would have Alaska, Yoshino and Moskva but I do prefer cruisers as my main surface ship... And particularly steer towards the more heavy/large or more battlecruiser'esque types like Yoshino, Alaska and Azuma, the latter of which I'll free exp at some point. 

 

It's been a long grind on the coal front.... Who wants to inundate me with positive and negative reviews on Yoshino? Tips? Pros and cons?

Yoshino is like an Ibuki gameplay wise

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The similarity for me has always been the HP, armour and guns. Yes Alaska may be better but that's not a point against them being similar in this regard, she's still a lot better off than vanilla heavy cruisers. The main reasons I find her attractive are:-

 

3x3 310mm guns - Battlecruiser guns. These are premium guns, nothing in the vanilla trees has anything like this. The biggest cruiser guns, unless I've missed something, in the vanilla trees is Moskva with 3x3 220mm which are only marginally larger than the standard 203 of most other heavy cruisers. 

 

The 21-24kish range, depending on how you spec her. I am one of those ultra long-ranged harassers that likes tying up loads of ships and spreading damage, so Yoshino would fit me pretty well.

 

20km torps.... I mainly like that because Alaska and Moskva don't have any. I've also been used to playing cruisers with 4km torps which are niche as hell. I doubt I would actually use them that much beyond area-denial and forcing enemy ships to re-angle favourably etc.

 

HP and Armour, she's a step above vanilla, so she's inferior to another ship that I already have oh well..  As for a big citadel, so many cruisers in the game are floating citadels, nearly all cruisers are vulnerable broadsided anyway to be honest. 

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5 minutes ago, Myrmidon19 said:

3x3 310mm guns - Battlecruiser guns. These are premium guns, nothing in the vanilla trees has anything like this. The biggest cruiser guns, unless I've missed something, in the vanilla trees is Moskva with 3x3 220mm which are only marginally larger than the standard 203 of most other heavy cruisers.

Intermediate guns like those on Alaska or Yoshino don't combine "best of both worlds", they combine worst of both worlds.

 

Penetration - only Russian 305mm on Kron and Stalin can threaten other battleships at normal combat ranges, Yoshino and even more so, Alaska/PR needs to be below 10km and need perfect broadside if you intent on perforating 400mm+ of plating. And even if you do make holes... so what, as of all hightier battleships, only Yamato have genuinely exposed citadel. To add more bias, Moskva 220mm are not far off in terms of penetration than Yoshino/Alaska guns.

Against cruisers... hightier 203mm can already handle 100-150mm of usual cruiser citadel plating at all combat ranges. One positive, HE by default have 51-52mm of HE pen, so you can reach out and touch battleship decks as well Khabarovsk, Moskva and Stalingrad.

Overmatch and fuse: +-305mm guns can overmatch 19mm plating, which in practice means you can not-ricochet off bow/stern of Smolensk and Colbert. But in return, these guns need 51mm of effective armor plating to actually arm the fuse. Combined with usual 25-32mm plating found on cruisers and battleships outside of main armored belt, ricochet angles and pinch of trigonometry, chances of arming fuses vary between "unlikely to impossible"... Unless its Stalingrad, as she have both improved ricochet angles, improved fuse sensitivity and shortened fuse time to reduce chances of shell leaving the ship before bang.

 

Reload - the best case scenario, Yoshino + reload mod gets 16.3s reload. Thats worse than early heavy cruisers and not even remotely close to shell output hightier CA you will be facing in regular basis. Hightier CL will simply bury you in ordnance, with your CB guns unable to overmatch and notoriously overpen normal cruisers unless you land hits on citadel.

 

Accuracy - even with Yoshino/Azuma, whom have "improved" dispersion compared to large cruisers, its still below that of cruisers.

 

For long range jackass, IFHEnri with double rudder mod serves the same purpose as Yoshino without large cruiser flaws. Or simply get a Moskva, park bow on and praise the balans.

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On 12/10/2019 at 4:20 PM, Panocek said:

Alaska and Yoshino are similar as in both are large cruisers with +-305mm guns.

Na, not really alike at all. The guns on Yosh are like laser accurate at 21k distance. You can't say that about Alaska guns. They are both completely different playing styles because you cannot fight close up with Yosh, not like you can with Alaska because it has some armour unlike Yosh. Two very different ships in terms of game-play. Yosh is a long distance shooter always on the move dodging with very accurate guns that are high velocity with a low arc. The guns handle completely different from Alsaka guns.

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On 12/10/2019 at 5:27 PM, Panocek said:

Reload - the best case scenario, Yoshino + reload mod gets 16.3s reload.

No. not if Yosh is anything like the Azuma, which it seems the same ship with Azuma lacking the torps.

 

Best setup is either use both rudder modules, or take speed boost and rudder MK2, also take extended range mod so you can shoot 22k all the time. Then stay outside your concealment range "on the move all the time" and use the very accurate guns to hit targets from 15k plus range. The rudder shift and distance gives you time from incoming shots to turn side-on and make them miss or not do great damage on you. Do not try and fight close in with this ship and always shoot from outside your concealment range. Which is 15k plus if you take them 3 modules

 

The guns are that good on this ship, you can stay 18 to 20k away and hit them most times. It's not a island hugging ship because it has low arc guns, you can't shoot over islands with it, and armour is too weak to be close in. On the move long distance shooter is the YOSH and AZUMA

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11 hours ago, Lord_of_the_manor said:

No. not if Yosh is anything like the Azuma, which it seems the same ship with Azuma lacking the torps.

 

Best setup is either use both rudder modules, or take speed boost and rudder MK2, also take extended range mod so you can shoot 22k all the time. Then stay outside your concealment range "on the move all the time" and use the very accurate guns to hit targets from 15k plus range. The rudder shift and distance gives you time from incoming shots to turn side-on and make them miss or not do great damage on you. Do not try and fight close in with this ship and always shoot from outside your concealment range. Which is 15k plus if you take them 3 modules

  

The guns are that good on this ship, you can stay 18 to 20k away and hit them most times. It's not a island hugging ship because it has low arc guns, you can't shoot over islands with it, and armour is too weak to be close in. On the move long distance shooter is the YOSH and AZUMA

You mean acceleration mod as they both lack speed boost?

 

I'm not convinved range mod is worth it at all. You have what, 19k by default which is plenty enough, even if the ship is squishy. And staying 19+ km away from the enemy can actually be detrimental as sooner or later spotting will vanish and you will be inefective. Also look at it this way, sure you can fire up to 22 km, but as soon as an enemy ship is closer than the range provided by the range mod all that range is wasted and reload takes the upper hand. The reason why range mod works on the likes of Zao compared to Yoshino is becasue the range goes from meh to good, so you don't actually loose effective damage output.

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11 hours ago, ollonborre said:

You mean acceleration mod as they both lack speed boost?

Just ignore it.

23 hours ago, Lord_of_the_manor said:

Na, not really alike at all. The guns on Yosh are like laser accurate at 21k distance. You can't say that about Alaska guns. They are both completely different playing styles because you cannot fight close up with Yosh, not like you can with Alaska because it has some armour unlike Yosh. Two very different ships in terms of game-play. Yosh is a long distance shooter always on the move dodging with very accurate guns that are high velocity with a low arc. The guns handle completely different from Alsaka guns.

Yes and no. Yoshino prefers range, but is not completely helpless up close, due to torpedoes, the citadel layout and getting its best accuracy at close range, where it surpasses cruisers.

22 hours ago, Lord_of_the_manor said:

No. not if Yosh is anything like the Azuma, which it seems the same ship with Azuma lacking the torps.

Yoshino has a lower base reload. Look it up before you throw out wrong statements, please.

23 hours ago, Lord_of_the_manor said:

Best setup is either use both rudder modules, or take speed boost and rudder MK2, also take extended range mod so you can shoot 22k all the time.

Take reload mod, because 21 km range is good enough. For anything else, use the spotter plane.

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12 hours ago, Bunny_Lover_Kallen said:

Take reload mod, because 21 km range is good enough. For anything else, use the spotter plane.

Taking reload mod if I'm right slows down turret transverse as a negative side effect. It already has pretty slow turret transverse and generally needs the 2pt skill to speed it up a bit for when turning to avoid incoming shots. Which you're doing quite a lot if playing the ship correctly and not Island hugging. So not sure how taking a reload mod that slows turret transverse is going to help much, when if anything you need faster turret transverse as possible to get your guns back on target fast while turning and dodging shots at distance?

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37 minutes ago, Lord_of_the_manor said:

Taking reload mod if I'm right slows down turret transverse as a negative side effect. It already has pretty slow turret transverse and generally needs the 2pt skill to speed it up a bit for when turning to avoid incoming shots. Which you're doing quite a lot if playing the ship correctly and not Island hugging. So not sure how taking a reload mod that slows turret transverse is going to help much, when if anything you need faster turret transverse as possible to get your guns back on target fast while turning and dodging shots at distance?

With EM your turret traverse is actually better than stock even with the reload mod. And since 36 seconds is already on the slow side your turrets will not keep up even if you did not run the reload mod. So your best bet is to use the entire ship to get guns on target and use the turret traverse for last second adjustments, meaning the negative effect of the reload mod is negated completely and you just gain positive things, ergo shorter reload.

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1 hour ago, Lord_of_the_manor said:

Taking reload mod if I'm right slows down turret transverse as a negative side effect. It already has pretty slow turret transverse and generally needs the 2pt skill to speed it up a bit for when turning to avoid incoming shots. Which you're doing quite a lot if playing the ship correctly and not Island hugging. So not sure how taking a reload mod that slows turret transverse is going to help much, when if anything you need faster turret transverse as possible to get your guns back on target fast while turning and dodging shots at distance?

Because turning turrets on a cruiser that fires every 16 seconds and usually at ranges in excess of 15 km is the big issue.

 

Also, in general, for a dodge you don't throw your entire ship around, so you just need to turn out a bit, till you no longer get citpenned to crap and then turn in to fire.

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