Same caliber, different damage?

[HassenderZerhacker]

There is something I don't understand.

Many guns have the same caliber, but damage varies WILDLY. from 1500 to 10000 for 150 - 152 mm guns for example.

It doesn't make any sense ?

Is that just done for tier "balance", i.e. a tier 8 does huge damage with its 150mm guns while a tier 3 using the same caliber can't really shoot back? what is this nonsense?

[ColonelPete]

Shells are constructed differently and yes, balance plays a role, but no shell that size does 10k damage.

[DFens_666]

9 minutes ago, HassenderZerhacker said:

Many guns have the same caliber, but damage varies WILDLY. from 1500 to 10000 for 150 - 152 mm guns for example.

 

No 150mm gun has a max damage of 10.000

Yes, there are slightly different damage values for balancing purposes, but it certainly is not as much as you think it is.

Like Bogatyr on T3 has 2100/2700 (HE/AP) and Wooster on TX has 2200/3200 (HE/AP). HE is literally the same. AP is a bit more.

[thiextar]

Guns of the same caliber generally do the same base damage(with a few exceptions)

 

What matters most is how you get hit.

 

Take ap fired from the guns of a charles martel for example, each armor piercing bullet is listed as doing 4900 base damage:

• If you overpen the target(shell doesnt have time to fuse, and just goes straight through the ship and out the other side) the shell will do 10% of its damage for a total of 490 damage
• If you penetrate the target(shell penetrates the outer layer of the armor and has time to fuse and explode inside the ship) The shell will do 33% of its damage for a total of 1617 damage
• If you penetrate a target and hit their citadel(An internal weakspot of ships) The shell will do 100% damage for a total of 4900 damage

 

And then it of course matters how many of these bullets hits you.

 

If you want some reading material, id recommend these pages:

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Ammo

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Gunnery_and_Aiming

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Armor_Penetration

[HassenderZerhacker]

46 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

No 150mm gun has a max damage of 10.000

Yes, there are slightly different damage values for balancing purposes, but it certainly is not as much as you think it is.

Like Bogatyr on T3 has 2100/2700 (HE/AP) and Wooster on TX has 2200/3200 (HE/AP). HE is literally the same. AP is a bit more.

 

yeah, ok, I got a bit carried away there!

I just noticed I read some figures wrong, lol.

[Panocek]

1 hour ago, HassenderZerhacker said:

 

yeah, ok, I got a bit carried away there!

I just noticed I read some figures wrong, lol.

Still, entire broadside salvo of some light cruisers can result in 10k damage or more, when all shells connect with unsaturated sections or score multiple citadel hits. But for "10k dmg per shell" you need battleship grade munitions.

[BLUB__BLUB]

16 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Still, entire broadside salvo of some light cruisers can result in 10k damage or more, when all shells connect with unsaturated sections or score multiple citadel hits. But for "10k dmg per shell" you need battleship grade munitions.

Yeah, and in that BB you never get 10K unless RNGesus decides to take a huge crap on some poor potato. 

[Panocek]

3 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Yeah, and in that BB you never get 10K unless RNGesus decides to take a huge crap on some poor potato. 

Or stop playing inferior battleship designs

[MementoMori_6030]

No idea how it's reflected in this game, but barrel length and ammunition also influence projectile speed, flight profile and damage potential.

[MementoMori_6030]

Vor 3 Stunden, HassenderZerhacker sagte:

There is something I don't understand.

Many guns have the same caliber, but damage varies WILDLY. from 1500 to 10000 for 150 - 152 mm guns for example.

It doesn't make any sense ?

Is that just done for tier "balance", i.e. a tier 8 does huge damage with its 150mm guns while a tier 3 using the same caliber can't really shoot back? what is this nonsense?

Take a look at the Panzer IV: Its gun caliber is 75mm, but the A version has a L/24 barrel and the F version a L/43 barrel, while the G version sports a L/48 barrel. Same caliber, completely different power level.

[ColonelPete]

And different ammunition between KwK 37 and 40 ( Fixed QF 75×243mm R to Fixed QF 75×495mm R)

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 hour ago, Panocek said:

Or stop playing inferior battleship designs

Yeah better play Russian Bias (OK I go to Gulag now). 

Nah yesterday I took 40K off a Soyuz and after that almoste deleted a Massa B.

AP Conqkek... 

[asalonen]

1 hour ago, MementoMori_6030 said:

No idea how it's reflected in this game, but barrel length and ammunition also influence projectile speed, flight profile and damage potential.

Ammunition in game have parameters that affect the shell trajectory: initial velocity, drag, weight. These affect the impact angle and how much speed the shell has left. Shallow angle leads to ricochets. 

 

Then, on impact the shell hardness (the Krupp value) is factored in to calculate if the shell penetrates the armor. If the shell penetrates the armor, same caliber shells do about the same damage.

 

AP shells also have fuse parameters (arming threshold and fuse length). The shell must pass through enough armor for the fuse to arm. If the fuse arms, it's still possible that the shell has enough penetration to also pass through the back side of the target before it explodes. In this case all you get is two neat holes and very little damage (an over-penetration, through and through). It's quite common when firing BB caliber AP shells at a broadside cruiser. 

[Cambera_1]

19 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

AP Conqkek... 

'Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition'

[BLUB__BLUB]

30 minutes ago, Cambera_1 said:

'Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition'

....indeed, and they will not even see it coming (12.9 concealment). 

[Cambera_1]

1 minute ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

....indeed, and they will not even see it coming (12.9 concealment). 

And the Latest Cruisers have a Detection Range of.... Loads more!

[BLUB__BLUB]

Just now, Cambera_1 said:

And the Latest Cruisers have a Detection Range of.... Loads more!

Yes they do. And good luck getting 10K hits from those, on something like a Conqkek. 

OK they try HE then... Conqkek can heal 3x (or 4, or 5) the whole ship. 

 

Makes sense they'd get 10k damage per salvo... well... IF EVER.