High tier IJN cruisers

[Radicalist]

Can someone explain to me what is point of high tier IJN cruisers? Also what is point from leveling on this lane when Mogami is better then 3 higher lever ships? Fact is that tier VII VIII IX and X have same guns, same amount of HP as Mogami. Only big thing i get from leveling up, is bigger chance from reciving epic combo damage in few shots. With this superior lane, i am floating free kill. Right now i am sailing with fully upgraded Ibuki and i must tell that every game, but every game one or two shots from 17 km rape me hard and half of my hp is gone. Is it possible to recive not epic combo shot with IJN cruiser? Also with this new aimbot, i am just epic target. I think that even a DD have better survivability then cruiser.

 

What is point of torps when IJN cruiser cant survive a attack from dog in 10 km? TIer VI Clev can rape any ijn cruiser 1 vs 1

 

Also AA on IJN cruisers is uselles, same Clev have better AA then whole IJN lane. 

 

IJN cruisers have worse maneuverability because they are much longer

 

IJN cruisers are bigger targets

 

IJN cruiser have worse rate of fire

 

Is there any, but any reason why would someone play this lane? 

[Fominator]

There is a reason at all to play cruisers?

[OVanBruce]

To be honest you've got to love the ships to go through lots of matches with then. Once you've gotten experience you can see the good points of then. Good points of IJN CAs are

 

- Better movility: Since you move faster you can get into critical places faster

- Better accuracy and alpha damage

- More tactical options thanks to the torpedoes and low detectability

 

All in all the trick to using IJN CAs effectively is using your low detectability, speed and torps to get in situations on when you are on the advantage. Using islands to cover your aproach and such, angle your ship while your surprise ships with their broadsides open, launch the torps for added damage and incertainty for the enemy, etc.

 

I should try to get my ideas in order and write a guide for IJN cruisers but in few words what I described above should explain then to you. Take into account that is easier to be succesful on USN cruisers but they've got only one thing: guns. On a IJN CA, for instance, you can fight up to 3 enemies at once: 2 with each of your sides' torps and 1 with the guns. You can also use your torps as an strategic weapon for covering your retreat, prepare the assault in one passage or simply cover an angle you aren't sure if something will pop out.

[Radicalist]

 On a IJN CA, for instance, you can fight up to 3 enemies at once: 2 with each of your sides' torps and 1 with the guns. You can also use your torps as an strategic weapon for covering your retreat, prepare the assault in one passage or simply cover an angle you aren't sure if something will pop out.

 

yeah you can fight 3 boats of somalian pirates armed with water guns. Even against them there is big chance to recive citadel hit. Please be more realistic, fact is that IJN cruiser cant survive more then 2 saldos from any cruiser or BB.

 

 

- Better movility: Since you move faster you can get into critical places faster

- More tactical options thanks to the torpedoes and low detectability

 

 

Now go back in game and see that they all have the same points on concealment. Only Senjo have a few points more then Des Moines in concealment. 

 

And look at the speeds of ships, Des Moines is faster then Senjo.Ibuki is 2kn faster then Baltimore and Myoko is 2kn faster then New Orleans? 

 

Fact is that IJN cruisers are worse in every single thing compare to USA cruisers

 

[Darzok]

I agree a buff is needed but there not as bad as you are seem to make out.

 

As for Buffs i am not sure what i would do since apart form maybe buff there concealment a little bit or buff the Torps a tiny bit.

[Vulgarny]

The point of high tier IJN cruisers is to xp pinata for enemy teams.

You arent more mobile because you bleed speed like crazy during zig zag. If you dont zig zag then you are asking to be send to bottom from enemy in 2-3 salvos.

Because you zig zag you loose dpm. Why? Turrets traverse cant keep up unlike USN ones.

Turning is also borked because of long hull.

Thing I can do in USN cruisers arent possible in IJN.

 

My Mogami relationship is love-hate. And its best IJN cruiser.

[Takeda92]

Well if you care about looks and the sight of US cruisers hurt your eyes, then that's a reason enough!

Ibuki and Senjou (Zaou) will get the regeneration ability so they will have something compared to the lower tier Mogami. 

[fnord_disc]

 On a IJN CA, for instance, you can fight up to 3 enemies at once: 2 with each of your sides' torps and 1 with the guns.

 

Yes, but if you have an enemy off either side and another where your guns are pointing, you won't be fighting them for very long in your origami ship.

[OVanBruce]

Well, I would love for my ships to be more tanky but I'm just stating how you can make then succesful.

 

If you keep focusing on the things of then you'll never find and use their strong points.

[valkarianism]

It's not entirely pointless. Maybe let a somewhat casual player of cruisers shed a little light on the topic.

 

IJN cruisers from Tier 2 to 6 are in a pretty weird place, admittedly. When you first hit the Mogami, or soon to be Myoko, you start getting the ability to handle other cruisers, trading equally with most cruisers of the same tier and having the ability to take down any tier below you as well. You also have torpedoes, which are good in general, but better for one of two main purposes.

 

1. You round an island and see a ship in close range. Torpedoes usually win. Usually. 

2. You are able to dictate the rules of engagement. You have Torpedoes that allow you to open up a gap between you and your opponents, as they will help to force turns and evasive manoeuvres. 

 

IJN cruisers are not special in any big way. Sure, the Mogami has 5 x 3 Main batteries or 5 x 2, but that'll soon be hit with 0.3.1. Their AA is also not particularly strong. What i feel IJN cruisers force you to do is move in formation. Escorting a BB (you see how i always come back to this point) or moving with another cruiser will greatly increase your combat capabilities, and adding to the fact that you have torpedoes, an all out brawl can sometimes turn in your favour. 

 

All in all, if you do not take to the IJN cruisers, don't play them. However, if you approach an IJN cruiser with impunity, you might face a nasty surprise. In the end, I guess it all boils down to play style and preference I suppose. 

[Coenraad]

Their biggest problem is their citadel. Speed, armament, manouverability, detectability, etc all that is fine. Mogami and Myoko will also logicaly swap places. The Citadel however needs changing. It is too easy to hit. 

I sail mainly IJN and i am allways happy when i meet other ijn cruisers. They are easy citadel kills, by far the easiest ingame. 

[zam_eu]

Can someone explain to me what is point of high tier IJN cruisers? Also what is point from leveling on this lane when Mogami is better then 3 higher lever ships? Fact is that tier VII VIII IX and X have same guns, same amount of HP as Mogami. Only big thing i get from leveling up, is bigger chance from reciving epic combo damage in few shots. With this superior lane, i am floating free kill. Right now i am sailing with fully upgraded Ibuki and i must tell that every game, but every game one or two shots from 17 km rape me hard and half of my hp is gone. Is it possible to recive not epic combo shot with IJN cruiser? Also with this new aimbot, i am just epic target. I think that even a DD have better survivability then cruiser.

 

What is point of torps when IJN cruiser cant survive a attack from dog in 10 km? TIer VI Clev can rape any ijn cruiser 1 vs 1

 

Also AA on IJN cruisers is uselles, same Clev have better AA then whole IJN lane. 

 

IJN cruisers have worse maneuverability because they are much longer

 

IJN cruisers are bigger targets

 

IJN cruiser have worse rate of fire

 

Is there any, but any reason why would someone play this lane?

 

Simple explaination, you do not know how to play IJN cruisers.

 

Please don't force a ship to do what it was not designed to do

[Bl4ckh0g]

You know most of you seem to think that a cruisers should be able to take hits.....

They should not. You dodge in a cruiser not sail in line like a battleship.

 

That's why I find the IJN worse than the USN, they are just a much bigger target with bigger turning radius, they are worse at dodging fire.

The 10 km torpedoes are hardly useful as well, they would be nice for hit and run tactics if they have 15 km or so range, but with 10 km....naaah

 

I played the Aoba and the Mogami, they are both competent ships (*hisses as Cleveland*), but their torpedoes are currently semi-useless and I think they will stay that way, because wargaming

at least they could offer the option of slow, long ranged and fast, short ranged torpedoes or something...Jeez 

 

eh They are not that bad, just harder to play

 

 

^{(They are fugly as hell tho)}

[OVanBruce]

(They are fugly as hell tho)

 

Oh no, you just didn't say that. Compared to those hunchbacked and overloaded USN CAs.

[Bl4ckh0g]

 

Oh no, you just didn't say that. Compared to those hunchbacked and overloaded USN CAs.

 

Oh yes OH YES I DID

 

dem ugly superstructures, with dem ugly paint-jobs

the whole ship reeks of kawaiiness with those elegant funnels and whatnot 

[dacorny]

With module upgrades, you can shot with the ibuki without getting spotted 

 

[fnord_disc]

Well, I would love for my ships to be more tanky but I'm just stating how you can make then succesful.

 

If you keep focusing on the things of then you'll never find and use their strong points.

 

Oh, the ships are not terrible. I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I thought they are. I just find that their faults outweigh their strong points in the grand scheme of things, but I say that as someone who has no American cruisers and only Japanese ones.

 

I suppose Japanese cruisers are meant to be more situational and more difficult to play compared to American cruisers, but the only true advantage of Japanese cruisers are their torpedoes - and you can't use them in every battle. In fact, the battles where you can meaningfully use your torpedoes (harakiri attacks don't count) are very rare. Most battles are fought using guns exclusively, and often the best you can hope for is forcing battleships into evasive maneuvers using your torpedoes, which gives you a little more longevity, but doesn't really contribute to your dpm.

 

Japanese cruisers would be a lot better if the torpedoes had better range, because it would allow you to use them without getting suicidally close. I still wouldn't expect too many hits, but their disruptive abilities could be utilized from further away.

 

And really, what's going to happen once we have cruisers from navies with worse torpedoes? Will torpedoes still be accounted for in the balancing as though they rule the roost?

 

WG isn't made up of idiots and this isn't the first game they're balancing, so I have no doubt things will change a lot between now and one year from now, but right now cruiser contribution to the game's result is decidedly inferior to battleships in my opinion.

[Et_Lanatus_baro]

its not just the IJN line both tier 9's of either nation are woeful. If you come up against tier 6/7/8's run away you wont win and yes they are that bad. the RoF of the lower tiers far outweigh the the guns on the tier 9's. I'm guessing they will be changing ships around before release as right now there is no point going past tier 8 unless you want the des moines but the senjo is simply not worth it.

[MudMonkey]

Welp, OP has a point there. I guess we all might have noticed that it is not that hard to sink a IJN Cruiser. When I sail around in my CA I am usually happy to see one. Because I know that it will be easy to score some Citadel hits and blow him out of the water.

For me its kind of a hate-love relationship with IJN CAs. I like their guns and torps. But I hate their vulnerability to Citadel hits. Atm I am at tier 7 in that line. But I dont know if I want to get up the ladder because I am sure it wont be fun.

We will see what 0.3.1 will bring.

[Exocet6951]

On most tier, they aren't worse than USN CAs.
There are a few oddities, like tier6 (Cleveland stronk balance), and the devastating Des Moinse, but as a whole, they are decent compared to their USN counterparts.
Well, in theory.

Ridiculous citadel hits, unarmored barbettes, hard to use/very situational torpedo tubes that require going in CQC hurt it badly, while USN CAs have those same problems, but with less citpens and better AA to make up for the lack of torps.

Don't get me started on the Senjo.
Bad mobility, lol armor, on average 4 turret crits and 2 turret destruction per match, 8km torps (lel) and gun angles that restrict you to firing half of you guns unless you are at a 50 or so degree angle and become a massive target. It's a shame, becomes with the 3.1 armor rework, fixed barbettes, and scraping the fast low range torpedoes on what is currently a long range support ship for something actually usuable, and she'll be a fine ship.

 

[OVanBruce]

Well, to be honest, and this comes from my experience and comments from other Des Moines owners, the tier X USN cruiser is a huge citadel too in front of a Senjo. Surprisingly easy to citadel for big numbers, I've vanquished a Des Moines more than a Des Moines sinks me on my Senjo, even on a 2 Vs 1 (though I must recognize I engaged in a favorable position).

 

Senjo has 2 caracteristics that don't reflect on her stats: Awesome accuracy (each salvo is a VERY compact group of shells) and great penetration.

 

She's still fragile, big and terribly sluggish though.

[bismark121]

what I find as a long time player with around 300 games alone in both Americans and japs (more with the japs though im at the ibuki atm) and I have found as stated the amour as is, is not really existing until t9 where it seems to get a little tougher or smaller citadel, the japs are speedy but not fast enough to make it op in any way its long and all that jazz aa is ok as you do get the ability, one of the biggest advantages over the Americans that the japs easily has it the fact is has the ability of losing a turret with out losing a third of it's potential dpm. (excluding what will be the t5 and the t6 jap cruisers)

[mrak1979]

I ve got Ibuki and Im realy satisfied with its performence. Myoko is terribly squishy I have hit one yesterday for 30k damage with one salvo. I killed Baltimore myself with help of torpedos. Torpedos are weapons of opportunity but can help fight BBs cause they cant go straigth because they must count with torpedo attacks and if not they get some fish:-) my only complain on IJn cruisers is they are very easily penetrated to citadel. Im playing USN cruisers also but its not to much fun for me and I realized that Americans loosing turrets more often then Japanese especialy Cleveland.

 

Myko will be swapped with Mogami in the next patch and Senjo (Zao after patch) will have some buff in video I saw it has got 44300 HP at least:-)

[Gigoveth]

Seems that most people tend to overlook a few crucial points:

1. CA is not a BB - do no try to absorb hits. Avoid it.

2. CA neither is a BB, nor a DD - you can turn quite quickly, but you need to PLAN AHEAD. Not to the extent of the BB driver but always.

3. Mogami has fairly decent guns, but upgraded Myoko with additional stuff bought to upgrade it can chew up every Cleveland or Pepsicola Cruisers. With some luck - from a distance that will make sure you will have plenty of time to avoid enemy salvos.. With no problems it can hold its own agains St Louis etc.

4 Single IJN CA such as Mogami or Myoko can easily block or at least slow down the advance of a few ships if you choose the right spot. Did it several times yesterday - in my Myoko I gave enough time to our CV to escape. Fish and gunfire did the trick. Fish for BB, guns for smaller ships. CV concentrated on evasion and sinking of the BBs that chased us. We were lucky they did not come all in one group. Fortunately in Cbeta well organized teams are rarity. It will change soon, so this kind of games are not likely to repeat for ever

5. Use your bloody FISH. Mogami can release enough torps to sink Nagato (checked it myself a few times) - from full HP to full of water in no time On Myoko you will be somewhat limited in this respect, but your gun rng is big enough to frustrate the other players DD? DD is goood. For one salvo.. CA? Not much better. Battleships? Do not get too close and you will be fine. Anything that closes to 10km from you - send it some fish. And use your guns - in Myoko you fire 200mm guns. They are really hard punching. Wait till the BB will be busy exchanging fire with other heavies get to range and fire all torps you have. With a bit of luck this type of busy BB driver will not notice you. And will never know what killed him If you damage him - fire HE shells - fires will piss him off a bit

7. Do not repeat my last mistake - do not duel bloody Yamato One shell and you will be hardly afloat

8. Use your speed.

Really - there is no reason to complain about IJN high tier cruisers. My only complaint is the torpedo range- Long Lance (installed i.e. in Myoko) Type 93 had normal rng of 22K metres, not 10K as in the game. It would be perfect stand-off weapon

 

[MudMonkey]

Seems that most people tend to overlook a few crucial points:

1. CA is not a BB - do no try to absorb hits. Avoid it.

2. CA neither is a BB, nor a DD - you can turn quite quickly, but you need to PLAN AHEAD. Not to the extent of the BB driver but always.

3. Mogami has fairly decent guns, but upgraded Myoko with additional stuff bought to upgrade it can chew up every Cleveland or Pepsicola Cruisers. With some luck - from a distance that will make sure you will have plenty of time to avoid enemy salvos.. With no problems it can hold its own agains St Louis etc.

4 Single IJN CA such as Mogami or Myoko can easily block or at least slow down the advance of a few ships if you choose the right spot. Did it several times yesterday - in my Myoko I gave enough time to our CV to escape. Fish and gunfire did the trick. Fish for BB, guns for smaller ships. CV concentrated on evasion and sinking of the BBs that chased us. We were lucky they did not come all in one group. Fortunately in Cbeta well organized teams are rarity. It will change soon, so this kind of games are not likely to repeat for ever

5. Use your bloody FISH. Mogami can release enough torps to sink Nagato (checked it myself a few times) - from full HP to full of water in no time On Myoko you will be somewhat limited in this respect, but your gun rng is big enough to frustrate the other players DD? DD is goood. For one salvo.. CA? Not much better. Battleships? Do not get too close and you will be fine. Anything that closes to 10km from you - send it some fish. And use your guns - in Myoko you fire 200mm guns. They are really hard punching. Wait till the BB will be busy exchanging fire with other heavies get to range and fire all torps you have. With a bit of luck this type of busy BB driver will not notice you. And will never know what killed him If you damage him - fire HE shells - fires will piss him off a bit

7. Do not repeat my last mistake - do not duel bloody Yamato One shell and you will be hardly afloat

8. Use your speed.

Really - there is no reason to complain about IJN high tier cruisers. My only complaint is the torpedo range- Long Lance (installed i.e. in Myoko) Type 93 had normal rng of 22K metres, not 10K as in the game. It would be perfect stand-off weapon

 

 

Well, let me welcome you the the forum first.

Your points may be valid, but they are not the problem we are discussing about. I (and otheres here) have problems with the fact that the IJN CAs are one big Citadel with no armor. Of course it is good to avoid hits, but that is just not possible in most situations. I still think it is better to wait and see what we will get with 0.3.1