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Dr_Strangefruit

Radar still ruining gameplay and WG dont care about it

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I do wish WG would fix the radar issue.

 

Stop it from penetrating islands, reduce it range and reduce the time it is active as there are now so many ships equipped with it that its hard to enjoy high end games any more.

 

I know they wont fix the island issue as they are not skilled enough to manage a fix, that and they are only interested in releasing copies and copies of other ships as over priced premiums or putting out truly shite in game events that bore players to tears for very little reward.

 

DDs now are one of the weakest classes in game due to the over abundance or radar, next they will have rowing boats in game with radar

 

 

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Its only an issue on your end. 

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32 minutes ago, Dr_Strangefruit said:

Stop it from penetrating islands, reduce it range and reduce the time it is active

 

So basicly that means remove radar...

 

33 minutes ago, Dr_Strangefruit said:

DDs now are one of the weakest classes

 

They can still decide matches better than Cruisers and BBs. Only CVs have more game influence.

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42 minutes ago, Dr_Strangefruit said:

DDs now are one of the weakest classes in game due to the over abundance or radar

 

Sure... my WR in high tier DDs in 2019:

image.png.fb5d1a5292aa2ce1029dea7f16180baa.png

 

44 minutes ago, Dr_Strangefruit said:

Stop it from penetrating islands

 

Stop whining for changes, that remove teamplay mechanics from a teamplay game!

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While only after a handful of matches I’ve (painfully) learned to evade radar ships, I do actually think the OP has a point in that radar ships completely change the way a dd plays, similar to CV’s but imho even more pronounced.

The 12km+ or so radars that last something like what, 45 seconds? are imho a little too much, especially in the smaller maps they basically make a fifth of the map a no-go zone for dd’s. 

 

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35 minutes ago, LordTareq said:

While only after a handful of matches I’ve (painfully) learned to evade radar ships, I do actually think the OP has a point in that radar ships completely change the way a dd plays, similar to CV’s but imho even more pronounced.

The 12km+ or so radars that last something like what, 45 seconds? are imho a little too much, especially in the smaller maps they basically make a fifth of the map a no-go zone for dd’s.

12km radars last 30s on Tier X, less on the Tiers below...

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38 minutes ago, LordTareq said:

The 12km+ or so radars that last something like what, 45 seconds? are imho a little too much

 

Yea, indeed, radars with 45 seconds and more then 12 km range are a little bit too much. thats why they dont exist.

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41 minutes ago, LordTareq said:

While only after a handful of matches I’ve (painfully) learned to evade radar ships, I do actually think the OP has a point in that radar ships completely change the way a dd plays, similar to CV’s but imho even more pronounced.

The 12km+ or so radars that last something like what, 45 seconds? are imho a little too much, especially in the smaller maps they basically make a fifth of the map a no-go zone for dd’s. 

 

Here, right here is the PROBLEM summed up.

 

Players, even with all the information at their disposal DON’T EVEN UNDERSTAND THE BASICS of these mechanics. RU Radar has been in the game for a long time and still players can’t even remember the basics such as the longevity of it.

 

🤦‍♀️

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59 minutes ago, LordTareq said:

 

The 12km+ or so radars that last something like what, 45 seconds? 

 

There is not 12km+ radar range. 12km is max. 

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Oh I understand the mechanics just fine.

 

What you say is just because the radar duration & ranges vary per tier and per ship and per nation, and I don’t find the game important enough to memorize every single detail. Not everyone dedicates his life to wows. 

I personally also play dd’s only occasionally, and for other classes radar is not quite the same problem.

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1 minute ago, LordTareq said:

Oh I understand the mechanics just fine.

 

What you say is just because the radar duration & ranges vary per tier and per ship and per nation, and I don’t find the game important enough to memorize every single detail. Not everyone dedicates his life to wows. 

I personally also play dd’s only occasionally, and for other classes radar is not quite the same problem.

You obviously do not.

And there is no need to memorize. When you are serious about sailing DD, this becomes "muscle memory".

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Which ships have a 12km+, 45 second radar?

 

Would you also like your smoke to block enemy torps as well?

 

You just have to work around the enemy radars, or better still make them waste them.

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Just now, ColonelPete said:

You obviously do not.

And there is no need to memorize. When you are serious about sailing DD, this becomes "muscle memory".

 

Sure, but what is your point?

 

You guys can troll all you like about details, I’m not arguing that islands should block radar (realistically perhaps, but I’m fine with the mechanic) but it is my opinion that radar is a bit too impactful on how you can play a dd in such matches. You can disagree if you like but calling out some minor detail like the wrong number of seconds (even though I wrote ‘roughly’) is just childish.

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7 minutes ago, LordTareq said:

 

Sure, but what is your point?

 

You guys can troll all you like about details, I’m not arguing that islands should block radar (realistically perhaps, but I’m fine with the mechanic) but it is my opinion that radar is a bit too impactful on how you can play a dd in such matches. You can disagree if you like but calling out some minor detail like the wrong number of seconds (even though I wrote ‘roughly’) is just childish.

These are not minor details and you claimed you understood how radar works.

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Will this radar whine ever stop? Enough already, WG already gave a 5 seconds radar delay and decreased the bonus from the radar increased duration upgrade from 40% to 20%. Also they said that they wont release in the nearest future a new ship line that gets radar!

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I feel like Radar lasts too long, usually you don't need teamplay to use it, just press the button and wail in on the DD. Radar just so happens to be installed on the ships that are the most efficient at killing DDs.

 

Imo Radar on the PA DDs is perfect, low enough of a duration such that you actually need teamplay to use it, low enough of a range that you actually put yourself in a somewhat harmful position (and thus can be countered) and it actually costs you a strong consumable to take.

 

They should do that with Cruiser Radar as well. Give it more charges, maybe lower CD, lower Range, slightly lower duration and have it be a choice between e.g. Hydro/DefAA or Radar.

 

edit: They could also make it more interesting than "press button to reveal everything" and make the distance at which you are revealed depend on your own Concealment Range (ie ships that natuarally have a good concealment like IJN DDs are more "resistant" to radar). Would also make the consumable a lot more nuanced and be more skill-testing than it is now.

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I honestly don't find radar to be that much of a issue when I play DD (unless I messed up and got over confident pushing forwards). I do have to work around the presence of radar ships but as long as I maintain map awareness they are not that big of an issue. Although it's always funny when you kill a radar cruiser as a DD they usually don't react very happily.

 

I am very happy they put the delay in radar information being passed on to other ships on the enemy team for me that was a big help for those times I made mistakes and got too close. 

 

Compared to CVs I really don't have a problem with radar cruisers.

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3 hours ago, Dr_Strangefruit said:

I know they wont fix the island issue as they are not skilled enough to manage a fix

As I read, this was already done, tested and rejected.

 

https://thedailybounce.net/world-of-warships/world-of-warships-upcoming-balance-changes-of-the-update-0-8-0-and-more/

Let’s now talk about the change itself. At the start, people talked about a line of sight system applied to the radar. The problem is that when Wargaming tested this system, they realized that it was rendering the radar pretty much useless.

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8 minutes ago, Odo_Toothless said:

As I read, this was already done, tested and rejected.

 

https://thedailybounce.net/world-of-warships/world-of-warships-upcoming-balance-changes-of-the-update-0-8-0-and-more/

Let’s now talk about the change itself. At the start, people talked about a line of sight system applied to the radar. The problem is that when Wargaming tested this system, they realized that it was rendering the radar pretty much useless.

Was that due to the limitations of bugworld? Or the hilariously incompetent playerbase?

I mean i don't care eitherway but i can't remember if wargaming actually showcased themselves testing the three types of radar (as in an actual video).

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Just checked in-game.

With upgrades, my Moskva radar has 12 km range and lasts for 36 seconds.

More than enough for his teammates to nuke a DD.

But no, that is not the problem.

The problem is a death by a thousand cuts.

Sure, some players are exceptionally good, rarely make mistakes, and have a unicum winrate.

Congrats.

But for all the rest of us, the game is a mess if you want to play DD.

It used to be that a DDs small health pool was compensated for by stealth.

But that is no longer the case.

No matter what you do, no matter how careful you are, you can always be spotted.

By a radar cruiser hiding behind an island, making it impossible to counter, while his teammates shoot at you from every direction as you struggle to withdraw.

By German hydro making you visible from 6 km distant, simultaneously making your torpedoes useless.

By CVs which can just spam aircraft at you (just played some low tier games for the first time in ages and holy crap, talk about being infested by CVs.. 2 enemy CVs is just too much!) and either attack you with difficult to avoid rockets or just keep you spotted while his teammates shoot you to pieces..

Meanwhile, the DD is still the go-to ship to cap, but too few people want to support them, too many people are too greedy and try to take down the enemy BB, ignoring the enemy radar cruiser, even if you repeatedly ask them to shoot it before its cooldown is over..

So yes, DDs are difficult to play for most of us, and much less fun than they used to be, radar being just one of the problems.

Saying there is no problem, isn't helpful.

And if you do know how to deal with all of this, then please, share your insight, so maybe the next time a DD has to face all of this, the guy on your team can benefit from what you've learned.

But to me, all this means is that games get ever more lopsided and ever more passive.

All these changes mean passive gameplay works, whereas more aggressive moves and capping are punished.

Which means this game is getting further and further from real naval warfare, not that it ever was anything close.

I do not see this as a positive development.

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3 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

You had a couple of years to learn how to deal with it...

Same as with CVs but we see the rivers of tiers still  )

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4 minutes ago, TheCinC said:

With upgrades, my Moskva radar has 12 km range and lasts for 36 seconds.

More than enough for his teammates to nuke a DD.

 

6 Sec of those the DD is only visible for the Moskva itself. More then enough aswell to start moving for the DD.

 

5 minutes ago, TheCinC said:

It used to be that a DDs small health pool was compensated for by stealth. 

But that is no longer the case.

 

How convenient, that you forget to mention, that:

- DDs used to have citas

- BBs used to get pen damage with AP on DDs, which isnt the case anymore with 2 exeptions and 1 of those DDs is spotted anyway all the time since its an open water gunboat

 

So, the game changed. It now takes longer to kill a DD then before.

 

next.

 

How do these 2 fit together?

7 minutes ago, TheCinC said:

No matter what you do, no matter how careful you are, you can always be spotted.

 

8 minutes ago, TheCinC said:

By German hydro making you visible from 6 km distant

 

Sounds like really careful play.

 

9 minutes ago, TheCinC said:

All these changes mean passive gameplay works, whereas more aggressive moves and capping are punished.

Which means this game is getting further and further from real naval warfare, not that it ever was anything close.

I do not see this as a positive development.

 

Aha. Because high tier games, where no CV and no radar cruisers are present are super aggressive, balanced and awesome?

Let me answer: they arent. Especially the BBs are pissin their pants, cuz they are afraid to push into the wall of skill. And there is literally nothing then - with the exeption of other DDs - that can spot the enemy DDs. So they can reign free.

Radar was introduced largly because:

People in this game dont work together. Most CVs dont care for spotting, most DDs dotn care for spotting. And if the CV or the DD spots, most people dont care to shoot the right targets cuz they dont know better. So - blame the bad overall playerbase for the state of the game. Aswell as blame the DDs that havent learned the 3 or 4 SUPER OBVIOUS radar positions on the map and the SUPER OBVIOUS positions to be save from that radar.

 

And, while this topic was going on, I was tempted to play Missouri. This screen is from today. Leading the push with radar. Radar makes the game passive? Radar stopps aggressive moves? Radar is punishing capping?

- Radar innitiated the aggresive push.

- Radar made our flank totaly fluid, breaking up the complete stalemate, that was going on C, with both sides camping at islands.

- Radar made me cap C.

I rest my case.

 

shot-19_12.01_18_24.01-0633.thumb.jpg.04c177a7f618499b24087699dbe0c834.jpg

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10 minutes ago, veslingr said:

Same as with CVs but we see the rivers of tiers still  )

Class that is broken due to the way it interacts with the rest of the playerbase, compared to consumable that can be hard-countered in multiple ways.

 

It's like saying artillery prevented camping, but in reality it caused the opposite. I like CV's, (i mean my fav ship is a cv lol) but i can't sit here and say that they are balanced, when they are unfortuantley broken due to them interacting with ships in a way that makes them either a consistent pest or a downright inevitable death (found that out in my monarch despite shooting down the most planes and yes the lexi got 4 kills).

 

I like CV's, but not acknowledging that they are broken with no hard counters (from the player who isnt a CV) isn't really a viable mechanic in a game mostly based around surface ships.

Look at arty they are trying to return AP and HEAT but so far the results look terrible, due to poor damage and well terrible accuracy.

 

No ship in the game can spot, stay hidden and guide their ordienance from start to finish from any angle (as long as AA isn't too mental, but if you want that one strike you will get it regardless).

Having been on both ends of carrier gameplay it isn't nice for either party regardless.

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