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Graf Zeppelin - An Analysis

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There have been many threads discussing the Graf Zeppelin, currently the most expensive premium CV and T8 ship (46,05€ in the shop). They haven't however touched more than a single part of the problem, so just like with the Blyskawica, Pensacola, and German BBs I will be looking at the ship compared to other T8 CVs, their stats and characteristics.

 

Stat source as always - http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20191130/eu_2month/average_ship.html

 

 

T8 CVs - Stats

Spoiler

 

image.png.9ad9179c23507150940896aba178c127.png

 

Well, at first glance we can see that GZ is the worst premium CV and second worst T8 CV after Implacable. It is by no means unpopular with 209 masochists playing it in the last 2 months. The ship does not shine in any category. It doesn't do damage, it doesn't survive battles (compared to other CVs), it doesn't kill ships. All this for the small price of 46,05€. I'm going to stop here, being caustic upsets my stomach.

 

 

T8 CVs – The Ships

Spoiler

 

image.png.3f3eea1de79a29ecc71de2a858e5fc99.png

 

Looking at the ships I decided not to look at secondaries, even though GZ has really good secondaries, as they are situational and you shouldn't push in a ship you can't control normally. It's my personal opinion though, so feel free to disagree.

 

GZ has the worst camo rating, with 15,71km surface detection. Yikes. Second worst speed after Kaga, but not by much. All other stats are pretty average. So the issue doesn't lie here, though grabbing CE is a very prudent thing to do.

 

 

T8 CVs – Attack Planes

Spoiler


image.png.a5da7c14006d75ca7834eb37d6d9b2b6.png

 

GZ has very underwhelming Attack Planes. They have the lowest HP, slowest speed, and a very average squadron size. And the restoration time is not really good. On deck it has half a squadron in reserve.

 

image.png.148a581d8a6f91932d8fd6c80befd496.png

 

Damage wise the rockets don't look bad, until you realize you shoot only 8 rockets per attack. The decent penetration and fire chance is just a small compensation for the fact that you aren't going to do much, beyond one attack pass. You can however attack larger ships than DDs, in fact you are bad against DDs with the small rocket number, but expect to lose your planes due to low HP and bad speed when attacking cruisers and battleships.

 

 

T8 CVs – Torpedo Bombers

Spoiler

 

image.png.034aeb811ffebe025cc3d66266eead4b.png

 

The TBs on the GZ aren't the worst, at least on the first glance. They are really fast, in fact faster than the other planes on speed boost. The HP is in the lower part but quite average. Restoration is average. Squadron size is also average, as it is identical to silver IJN and USN CVs.

 

image.png.ed4a50bdd6a3a35abb747ab84f33e6e2.png

 

The range is the best thing on the TBs, they have a 6,7km range, which is best at tier. However the average size of the squadron makes spamming torps into the distance a bit problematic. Also the torps have the worst damage at tier, stock T6 CVs have better torps.

 

 

T8 CVs – Dive Bombers

Spoiler

 

image.png.568b00aa4f5679a12b9b15fcc881dee9.png

 

Oh, boy. Where to start. GZ DBs have the best speed. That's it, end of pros. Now for the contras. The restoration time is third slowest on the second smallest squadron size, makes sense right? The HP is the second lowest, so don't expect the planes to return.

 

image.png.3ebfa27065ebcf3606935c463cf1ae26.png

 

When it comes to offensive potential, GZ DBs are an empty joke. They have the lowest potential damage. The flight drops a total of two bombs into a circle. That wouldn't be a large problem, if the WG didn't change the attack pattern towards a player unfriendly level flight, that makes the planes drop the bombs in a glide towards the side of the ship. No one asked for this change, but WG decided to implement it. What you can expect is a lot of misses and bounces.

 

 

 

Summary

I own a GZ. It isn't a ship I'm actively playing. I had tried to make it work in COOP and was more than disappointed. I own all other available premium CVs and I’d rather play Ark Royal in a T8 battle.

The planes of the GZ, range from average to garbage. The secondary gimmick is misplaced on a ship that should avoid direct contact with enemy ships. For the most expensive T8 CV the ship does not offer any return of investment or fun mechanics and should be avoided.

 

I have decided to keep this rather short, as the numbers speak for themselves.

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TL;DR she is crappy, but not crappy enough to warrant a buff.

Perfectly balans for non russian vessel :cap_tea:

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Torpedo range is completely worthless given that you always want to drop as close as possible nowadays.

Just saying.

 

Generally speaking speed also equals survivability since you minimize AA exposure, therefore GZ plane survivability is actually better than it looks like from what I know.

 

That GZ has a lower survivability rating is solely because potatoes feel the need to use secondaries and proceed to throw away their ship in situations where turning away and running would have allowed them to survive. Seen it tons of times. In terms of ship survivability GZ doesn't sport any significant disadvantages compared to her contemporaries.

In fact I seem to remember someone stated that her armor is actually quite good.

 

Also here are the AP bomb penetration values:

https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldOfWarships/comments/bowvi9/wows_live_qa_22/enqbodh/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app

 

Do keep in mind GZ AP bomb penetration was actually buffed after this comment was made, so she technically sports the highest penetration out of all CVs currently.

Not that it helps her much due to the drop angle tho.

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While I agree that the GZ needs some help (Dive Bombers, I'm looking at you.. those things are so ridiculously useless it is better to take ANY other flight, no matter the numbers)...

Dont discount the secs. It does not happen THAT often, but even CAs that think a CV an easy target; findING themselves on the receiving end of the secs loosing more HP than is nice for them... together with a few attacks on the planes the GZ is surprisingly good in self defense.

The DB need help. Otherwise I feel the GZ is somewhat fine. A few small buffs wouldnt hurt tho.

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Idk, I feel like discussing balance for CVs while they still have their gaping design flaws is a moot point.

 

I'd make carrier games fun to play first, and then try and balance them. Cause currently they aren't.

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40 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

That GZ has a lower survivability rating is solely because potatoes feel the need to use secondaries and proceed to throw away their ship in situations where turning away and running would have allowed them to survive.

:Smile_izmena:Something along the lines of push when your team is retreating faster than you can. Cause you're probably gonna die anyways.

 

It's funny how GZ secondaries are the reason most people get the ship (and maybe German fanboys/girls). But really you can't ever use it effectively. Cause GZ detection range with standard provided permanent camo, concealment module, and concealment expert. You're still most likely going to get spotted before your secondaries activate. And then get rained on because you're a bloody cv. 

 

I have two now so I can pick what ever style I wanna play.

 

The lost cv who's with the team pushing near the front line in areas with lots of cover. But get screwed over by auto pilot as it makes you poke out just enough from behind an island to get you spotted. But have a swimming chance of beating the ships that are in secondary range 9.4km.

 

Or the standard cv that goes back and forth on the back of the map sending out planes. Though I use Graf more as spotter and airial support shop than an actual damage dealer with the dubious planes. 

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Maybe WG is bringing out the indomitable soon to make the gz look better?

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17 minutes ago, Saiyko said:

Maybe WG is bringing out the indomitable soon to make the gz look better?

Save for the lack of TBs the Indomitable doesn't look that bad:

 

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.290a32fd338ab5f876dde6ba99c82c15.png

 

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GZ is a ship that definitely could need some help. I would avoid calling the TBs not worst "at first glance", because even at second or third glance, they are not bad. As @El2aZeR already stated, the speed minimises AA exposure, but it also gives better dpm by flying more attacks. Given the high speed, having averages pretty much everywhere else, these planes are no joke, they are pretty good. Rockets are, iffy. They deal not very well with good AA, but they are pretty solid for sniffing out and killing DDs. Their alpha is decent, their maneuverability is excellent, their accuracy is quite good. Contrast to HVAR or stuff that throws a lot of rockets into the water. The main issue I'd say the GZ has are the AP DBs, which were "buffed" to crap, but were already not very great to begin with. They are fast, but they have far too many issues in their uniwque approach, in their low potential damage per run and big RNG factor. Unless these bombs become more precise or the GZ gets more bombs per drop, these bombers remain simply crap. I'd rather play Implacable, which hits with its bombers and sets fires (in short, the bomber does its advertised job) than GZ for bomber usage. GZ does beat Implacable by far in torpedo power though, where Implacable basically has to rely on the torp+firebomb combo to DoT BBs down for big damage. This leaves the torp bombers overtaxed though, even when I rely on torps + rockets (high pen means they are usable against a ton of targets beyond DDs and light cruisers) to get DoT combo and avoid losing too many of the TBs.

4 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

Save for the lack of TBs the Indomitable doesn't look that bad:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

image.thumb.png.290a32fd338ab5f876dde6ba99c82c15.png

 

Lack of TBs is huge though. Indomitable has almost 1.5 times the restoration time on planes too, for having fewer planes. Indomitable is some weird crossover of Implacable and GZ that manages to end up worse and more inflexible than either of these. And those two are currently the two worst T8 CVs.

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8 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

Save for the lack of TBs the Indomitable doesn't look that bad:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

image.thumb.png.290a32fd338ab5f876dde6ba99c82c15.png

 

Well it can do exactly 0 damage to particular ships, but apart from that great :cap_like:

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There is a reason why WG sell Graf B and not Enterprise B, imagine how much people buyed or got Graf for free if all of them got enterprise, dead game in matter of hours :cap_haloween:

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59 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

Save for the lack of TBs the Indomitable doesn't look that bad: 

 

50 minutes ago, kfa said:

Well it can do exactly 0 damage to particular ships, but apart from that great :cap_like:

Indeed.

 

If you're top tier, you might do allright. If uptiered, you'd better roll over and give up.

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1 hour ago, Aragathor said:

Save for the lack of TBs the Indomitable doesn't look that bad:

 

  Hide contents

image.thumb.png.290a32fd338ab5f876dde6ba99c82c15.png

 

 

Trust me, she's utterly terrible. You literally have no options whatsoever against all ships with 33+mm deck armor and it's not like her performance against ships that do not have that is particularly stellar either.

You could literally downtier her to T6 with some adjustments to plane health/speed and she'd likely not even take the place of best T6 CV.

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Just compare ryujo vs gz..(planewise) you will notice that gz isn't better than ryujo the best T6 CV. (ignore the modules). I gave all my hope up that they fix those dB. I'm doing fine In Graf Zeppelin but those dB are frustrating af:) so please WG fix them...... 

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The TB range would be a bit more useful if TBs got torp predictors like DDs do

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1 hour ago, Xanta99 said:

The TB range would be a bit more useful if TBs got torp predictors like DDs do

No, the main issue is that you are throwing like 40 knot torps that anyone with a brain can dodge if you torp from range. If these torps would just need an indicator to make the range useful, you'd see unicums play around that range, the way you saw unicums in the first weeks of the rework use 8 km Haku torps to great effect. Frankly, the TBs overall are fine. GZ needs help with the DBs, so the TBs aren't overtaxed.

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9 hours ago, Sirius_IV said:

:Smile_izmena:Something along the lines of push when your team is retreating faster than you can. Cause you're probably gonna die anyways.

 

It's funny how GZ secondaries are the reason most people get the ship (and maybe German fanboys/girls). But really you can't ever use it effectively. Cause GZ detection range with standard provided permanent camo, concealment module, and concealment expert. You're still most likely going to get spotted before your secondaries activate. And then get rained on because you're a bloody cv. 

 

I have two now so I can pick what ever style I wanna play.

 

The lost cv who's with the team pushing near the front line in areas with lots of cover. But get screwed over by auto pilot as it makes you poke out just enough from behind an island to get you spotted. But have a swimming chance of beating the ships that are in secondary range 9.4km.

 

Or the standard cv that goes back and forth on the back of the map sending out planes. Though I use Graf more as spotter and airial support shop than an actual damage dealer with the dubious planes. 

This guy gets creative, and I like that, there was another vid which I watched where a guy sank a couple of ships on Two Brothers with GZ secondaries, 

 

 

Aha here it is.... Total potato's, I think not

 

 

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10 hours ago, Aragathor said:

There have been many threads discussing the Graf Zeppelin, currently the most expensive premium CV and T8 ship (46,05€ in the shop). They haven't however touched more than a single part of the problem, so just like with the Blyskawica, Pensacola, and German BBs I will be looking at the ship compared to other T8 CVs, their stats and characteristics.

 

Stat source as always - http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20191130/eu_2month/average_ship.html

 

 

T8 CVs - Stats

  Hide contents

 

image.png.9ad9179c23507150940896aba178c127.png

 

Well, at first glance we can see that GZ is the worst premium CV and second worst T8 CV after Implacable. It is by no means unpopular with 209 masochists playing it in the last 2 months. The ship does not shine in any category. It doesn't do damage, it doesn't survive battles (compared to other CVs), it doesn't kill ships. All this for the small price of 46,05€. I'm going to stop here, being caustic upsets my stomach.

 

 

T8 CVs – The Ships

  Hide contents

 

image.png.3f3eea1de79a29ecc71de2a858e5fc99.png

 

Looking at the ships I decided not to look at secondaries, even though GZ has really good secondaries, as they are situational and you shouldn't push in a ship you can't control normally. It's my personal opinion though, so feel free to disagree.

 

GZ has the worst camo rating, with 15,71km surface detection. Yikes. Second worst speed after Kaga, but not by much. All other stats are pretty average. So the issue doesn't lie here, though grabbing CE is a very prudent thing to do.

 

 

T8 CVs – Attack Planes

  Hide contents

 

image.png.a5da7c14006d75ca7834eb37d6d9b2b6.png

 

GZ has very underwhelming Attack Planes. They have the lowest HP, slowest speed, and a very average squadron size. And the restoration time is not really good. On deck it has half a squadron in reserve.

 

image.png.148a581d8a6f91932d8fd6c80befd496.png

 

Damage wise the rockets don't look bad, until you realize you shoot only 8 rockets per attack. The decent penetration and fire chance is just a small compensation for the fact that you aren't going to do much, beyond one attack pass. You can however attack larger ships than DDs, in fact you are bad against DDs with the small rocket number, but expect to lose your planes due to low HP and bad speed when attacking cruisers and battleships.

 

 

T8 CVs – Torpedo Bombers

  Hide contents

 

image.png.034aeb811ffebe025cc3d66266eead4b.png

 

The TBs on the GZ aren't the worst, at least on the first glance. They are really fast, in fact faster than the other planes on speed boost. The HP is in the lower part but quite average. Restoration is average. Squadron size is also average, as it is identical to silver IJN and USN CVs.

 

image.png.ed4a50bdd6a3a35abb747ab84f33e6e2.png

 

The range is the best thing on the TBs, they have a 6,7km range, which is best at tier. However the average size of the squadron makes spamming torps into the distance a bit problematic. Also the torps have the worst damage at tier, stock T6 CVs have better torps.

 

 

T8 CVs – Dive Bombers

  Hide contents

 

image.png.568b00aa4f5679a12b9b15fcc881dee9.png

 

Oh, boy. Where to start. GZ DBs have the best speed. That's it, end of pros. Now for the contras. The restoration time is third slowest on the second smallest squadron size, makes sense right? The HP is the second lowest, so don't expect the planes to return.

 

image.png.3ebfa27065ebcf3606935c463cf1ae26.png

 

When it comes to offensive potential, GZ DBs are an empty joke. They have the lowest potential damage. The flight drops a total of two bombs into a circle. That wouldn't be a large problem, if the WG didn't change the attack pattern towards a player unfriendly level flight, that makes the planes drop the bombs in a glide towards the side of the ship. No one asked for this change, but WG decided to implement it. What you can expect is a lot of misses and bounces.

 

 

 

Summary

I own a GZ. It isn't a ship I'm actively playing. I had tried to make it work in COOP and was more than disappointed. I own all other available premium CVs and I’d rather play Ark Royal in a T8 battle.

The planes of the GZ, range from average to garbage. The secondary gimmick is misplaced on a ship that should avoid direct contact with enemy ships. For the most expensive T8 CV the ship does not offer any return of investment or fun mechanics and should be avoided.

 

I have decided to keep this rather short, as the numbers speak for themselves.

 

I Generally Agree with the Assesment. There is however a few things that should be Noted because your going too much on the Stats 1 by 1 rather than thinking of them as a Package.

 

1.

GZ is currently the Weakest CV when considering her Planes. That is a Fact.

But leaving out her Secondaries is actually a Mistake. Because they are an very Valuable Gimmick.

Now unlike some Tatos which think that they Should Play her as a Brawler. (Which is of course Fun ^^) these Secondaries and her Armor Sheme give the GZ some Options other CVs dont have.

She is Covered in 21mm Armor Plating. And her Citadel is Underwater. So most DD Caliber Guns will actually Shatter their HE Shells if they dont use IFHE. And the Deck with 25mm can actually even Bounce Light Cruiser HE.

And as HE Spamming Light Cruisers will land 90% of their Shells on your Deck this often Results in DDs and Light Cruisers really struggling to Deal any Damage to you even when they actually reach you.

 

In Fact with a Secondary Build. The Graf Zeppelin has absolutely no Reason to be Scared from Enemy DDs Rushing at it.

Allowing her to actually take Positions behind Islands Closer to the Frontline and thus having far Shorter Ways for her Attack Runs.

Which is of course even more notable in her Case. Because your Planes are Extremely Fast and thus have more Attack Runs to begin with.

 

And as GZ just like all CV also has a Decent AA Suite. She with this actually makes a Great Rear Line Ship following her BBs especially in Lategame. And Providing Anti Aircraft and Anti DD Capabilities.

 

 

2.

GZ Plane Speed actually has one more Gimmick. Which is that her Torpedo Bombers can in Fact Outrun most Catapult and even CV Spawned Fighters.

Which allows you to Drop Enemy Ships that have Launched a Catapult Fighter. And then either just Boost to the Next Target or take a Long Circle before the next Attack so the Enemy Fiighters Run out of Steam and Return to Ship while your going for the Second Drop.

This also Allows you to just Pick up Enemy Fighters Spawned in the way of your DDs and Drag them after you on an Attack Run so they Spot for the Enemy.

 

 

3.

Your Idea of Survivability of GZ Squadrons is actually Wrong.

The Reason is their Speed. While its True that their HP is lower. The Speed they have. Actually causes GZ Squadrons to take less Losses in Attacks than most other CVs.

Simply because you have an Easier time of Evading Heavy AA and also spend less time in the DPS Aura.

 

The Exception to this is the Rocket Assaults. Which do not have the Speed Advantage. But they got another Advantage going for them. Their Restoration Time.

Which you actually Describe as not being Good. But in Fact. It is. Because you only need 2 Aircraft for a Strike Wing. And you get one every 79 Seconds.

Lexi and Shokaku might look Better on First Glance with only 66 Seconds. But you need to keep in mind how much you need for an Attack.

To Run a Succesful Attack you need 2 Strike Wings. For the GZ this is 4x79 Seconds. Which means a bit over 5 Minutes.  The Shokaku and Lexi however need 3 per Wing. And thus come with 6x66 Seconds. Which actually means you need over 6 and 1/2 Minutes for another Strike to be Restored.

 

 

4.

The Torpedo Bombers of the GZ are actually not that Bad either.

They have low Damage. But they also Run with 3 Torps. Which means they do good enough.

And there is something you need to keep in mind here.

GZ Torpedo Bombers are 20-25% Faster than even the Fastest T8 TBs of other CVs. Meaning that in General. For every 4 Attack Runs another T8 CV Runs. The GZ will Add a 5th Attack Run.

Which actually makes her Torpedo Bombers Pretty Reliable as a Source of Damage.

 

 

 

 

For the Rest I pretty much Agree.

The Dive Bombers are a Joke.

You can make them Work somewhat. But the RNG and the low Damage Output is just Pitiful.

In General what the GZ Lacks is Unfortunately exactly these DBs.

The GZ would need the DBs to be Buffed.

 

There would be 3 Options here.

 

A.

Increase the DB Squadron to 12 Planes with 4 per Attack Wing. This way the RNG will be Cancelt out a bit. And the Potential Damage will go up.

It still wont be a Shokaku of Course. But they will become Usable.

 

B.

Replace the 500kg Bomb with a 1000kg Bomb. The Fuselage can actually Handle this on the Ta152 as the FW190 already could Carry these in some Cases.

Increasing the AP Damage to 13k per Bomb this would Bring her Total Damage up to 26k which would actually be Slightly Better than Shokaku. Albeit of course with the RNG almost always only Hitting 1 Bomb. Your Realistic Damage would be more around Half of what Shokaku does.

However. The High Damage would mean that a Reliable Drop can Still Deal about 8k Damage. Which would mean you can at least Use these halfwat Decently.

 

C.

Replace the Ta152 Fighter/Bomber Aircraft with Ju87 Dive Bombers. Ju87 Dive Bombers were still Capable of up to 190 Knots of Speed when Flying Full Power. And they could actually Receive a Longer Engine Boost as the Ju87 Motors where actually known to be Quite Resilent even when Overused.

This would Allow for a way Bigger Variety of Bomb Sets.

 

C.1

Attack Wing of 3 with 3x250kg HE Bombs each. Total of 9 Bombs Dropped.

Damage per Bomb going by the other Bombs used in the Game. Would be around 6000 per Bomb. So the Total Drop would have a Bomb Damage of 54k with about 40mm Penetration.

This would Place them behind Lexington and with somewhat less Penetration. But would still Allow for a Realistic Drop of 15k Damage.

 

C.2

Attack Wing of 3 with 1x500kg AP Bomb each. Total of 3 Bombs Dropped.

Damage per Bomb would be the same as currently. Bringing the Bombers basicly to Shokaku Level. With 21k Potential Citadel Damage.

 

C-3

Attack Wing of 2 with 8x50kg HE Bombs each. Total of 16 Bombs Dropped.

The 50kg Bombs are basicly just a Tiny bit less Powerful than the British 125 Pounders. So 4k Damage and 30mm Pen would be Fair for this.

Unlike the British Bombers however. The German Stukas would Drop the Bombs in a Dive. So they would likely get more Hits on Target.

As they cant Pen most BB Decks however this should Balance Out Fairly Good.

The Total Potential Damage would be a little lower than the UK. With 64k. But likely it would run roughly the same as the Implacable due to landing more Bombs on Target.

 

 

 

 

There is certainly other Options as well.

But thats what I would think of as Adequate.

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11 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

C-3

Attack Wing of 2 with 8x50kg HE Bombs each. Total of 16 Bombs Dropped.

The 50kg Bombs are basicly just a Tiny bit less Powerful than the British 125 Pounders. So 4k Damage and 30mm Pen would be Fair for this.

Unlike the British Bombers however. The German Stukas would Drop the Bombs in a Dive. So they would likely get more Hits on Target.

As they cant Pen most BB Decks however this should Balance Out Fairly Good.

The Total Potential Damage would be a little lower than the UK. With 64k. But likely it would run roughly the same as the Implacable due to landing more Bombs on Target.

If the accuracy is appropriate, because otherwhise you just precision-snipe DDs. 

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14 minutes ago, Sleepy_Bunny said:

If the accuracy is appropriate, because otherwhise you just precision-snipe DDs. 

 

True. The Spread should be Set to basicly Equal 1 BB Midsection. To make sure that you can actually Land a Full Drop on BBs. But will Generally miss 1/3 or 1/2 of the Bombs on Cruisers and wont really land more than 1/6 of the Bombs on a DD. (And pls note 1/6 being supposed to be Perfect Drop then. Not being the Norm)

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2 hours ago, Sunleader said:

 

I Generally Agree with the Assesment. There is however a few things that should be Noted because your going too much on the Stats 1 by 1 rather than thinking of them as a Package.

 

1.

GZ is currently the Weakest CV when considering her Planes. That is a Fact.

But leaving out her Secondaries is actually a Mistake. Because they are an very Valuable Gimmick.

Now unlike some Tatos which think that they Should Play her as a Brawler. (Which is of course Fun ^^) these Secondaries and her Armor Sheme give the GZ some Options other CVs dont have.

She is Covered in 21mm Armor Plating. And her Citadel is Underwater. So most DD Caliber Guns will actually Shatter their HE Shells if they dont use IFHE. And the Deck with 25mm can actually even Bounce Light Cruiser HE.

And as HE Spamming Light Cruisers will land 90% of their Shells on your Deck this often Results in DDs and Light Cruisers really struggling to Deal any Damage to you even when they actually reach you.

 

In Fact with a Secondary Build. The Graf Zeppelin has absolutely no Reason to be Scared from Enemy DDs Rushing at it.

Allowing her to actually take Positions behind Islands Closer to the Frontline and thus having far Shorter Ways for her Attack Runs.

Which is of course even more notable in her Case. Because your Planes are Extremely Fast and thus have more Attack Runs to begin with.

 

And as GZ just like all CV also has a Decent AA Suite. She with this actually makes a Great Rear Line Ship following her BBs especially in Lategame. And Providing Anti Aircraft and Anti DD Capabilities.

 

 

2.

GZ Plane Speed actually has one more Gimmick. Which is that her Torpedo Bombers can in Fact Outrun most Catapult and even CV Spawned Fighters.

Which allows you to Drop Enemy Ships that have Launched a Catapult Fighter. And then either just Boost to the Next Target or take a Long Circle before the next Attack so the Enemy Fiighters Run out of Steam and Return to Ship while your going for the Second Drop.

This also Allows you to just Pick up Enemy Fighters Spawned in the way of your DDs and Drag them after you on an Attack Run so they Spot for the Enemy.

 

 

3.

Your Idea of Survivability of GZ Squadrons is actually Wrong.

The Reason is their Speed. While its True that their HP is lower. The Speed they have. Actually causes GZ Squadrons to take less Losses in Attacks than most other CVs.

Simply because you have an Easier time of Evading Heavy AA and also spend less time in the DPS Aura.

 

The Exception to this is the Rocket Assaults. Which do not have the Speed Advantage. But they got another Advantage going for them. Their Restoration Time.

Which you actually Describe as not being Good. But in Fact. It is. Because you only need 2 Aircraft for a Strike Wing. And you get one every 79 Seconds.

Lexi and Shokaku might look Better on First Glance with only 66 Seconds. But you need to keep in mind how much you need for an Attack.

To Run a Succesful Attack you need 2 Strike Wings. For the GZ this is 4x79 Seconds. Which means a bit over 5 Minutes.  The Shokaku and Lexi however need 3 per Wing. And thus come with 6x66 Seconds. Which actually means you need over 6 and 1/2 Minutes for another Strike to be Restored.

 

 

4.

The Torpedo Bombers of the GZ are actually not that Bad either.

They have low Damage. But they also Run with 3 Torps. Which means they do good enough.

And there is something you need to keep in mind here.

GZ Torpedo Bombers are 20-25% Faster than even the Fastest T8 TBs of other CVs. Meaning that in General. For every 4 Attack Runs another T8 CV Runs. The GZ will Add a 5th Attack Run.

Which actually makes her Torpedo Bombers Pretty Reliable as a Source of Damage.

 

 

 

 

For the Rest I pretty much Agree.

The Dive Bombers are a Joke.

You can make them Work somewhat. But the RNG and the low Damage Output is just Pitiful.

In General what the GZ Lacks is Unfortunately exactly these DBs.

The GZ would need the DBs to be Buffed.

 

There would be 3 Options here.

 

A.

Increase the DB Squadron to 12 Planes with 4 per Attack Wing. This way the RNG will be Cancelt out a bit. And the Potential Damage will go up.

It still wont be a Shokaku of Course. But they will become Usable.

 

B.

Replace the 500kg Bomb with a 1000kg Bomb. The Fuselage can actually Handle this on the Ta152 as the FW190 already could Carry these in some Cases.

Increasing the AP Damage to 13k per Bomb this would Bring her Total Damage up to 26k which would actually be Slightly Better than Shokaku. Albeit of course with the RNG almost always only Hitting 1 Bomb. Your Realistic Damage would be more around Half of what Shokaku does.

However. The High Damage would mean that a Reliable Drop can Still Deal about 8k Damage. Which would mean you can at least Use these halfwat Decently.

 

C.

Replace the Ta152 Fighter/Bomber Aircraft with Ju87 Dive Bombers. Ju87 Dive Bombers were still Capable of up to 190 Knots of Speed when Flying Full Power. And they could actually Receive a Longer Engine Boost as the Ju87 Motors where actually known to be Quite Resilent even when Overused.

This would Allow for a way Bigger Variety of Bomb Sets.

 

C.1

Attack Wing of 3 with 3x250kg HE Bombs each. Total of 9 Bombs Dropped.

Damage per Bomb going by the other Bombs used in the Game. Would be around 6000 per Bomb. So the Total Drop would have a Bomb Damage of 54k with about 40mm Penetration.

This would Place them behind Lexington and with somewhat less Penetration. But would still Allow for a Realistic Drop of 15k Damage.

 

C.2

Attack Wing of 3 with 1x500kg AP Bomb each. Total of 3 Bombs Dropped.

Damage per Bomb would be the same as currently. Bringing the Bombers basicly to Shokaku Level. With 21k Potential Citadel Damage.

 

C-3

Attack Wing of 2 with 8x50kg HE Bombs each. Total of 16 Bombs Dropped.

The 50kg Bombs are basicly just a Tiny bit less Powerful than the British 125 Pounders. So 4k Damage and 30mm Pen would be Fair for this.

Unlike the British Bombers however. The German Stukas would Drop the Bombs in a Dive. So they would likely get more Hits on Target.

As they cant Pen most BB Decks however this should Balance Out Fairly Good.

The Total Potential Damage would be a little lower than the UK. With 64k. But likely it would run roughly the same as the Implacable due to landing more Bombs on Target.

 

 

 

 

There is certainly other Options as well.

But thats what I would think of as Adequate.

THIS is how you describe a ship. Interesting when the OP makes a short and lacking review saying numbers tell all (which most ofvthe time they do not btw) and then another review comes with actual information with a detailed description of what is good about the ship, what is bad about the ship and what could make her more decent. I do agree that her secundaries when used right are a real plus when compared to the other CVs, and not saying this from own lack of skill and experience but from the plentora of examples on youtube by those that do know what they are doing (I like to watch Toptier's vidsmyself). And these people can do rather well with her, getting decent amounts of total damage on a regular base. She isn't the strongest, but probably in a good spot, considering everyone is constantly bitching that the rest of the CVs are ruining the game. I reckon the bombers could do with a buff from what I've seen to make them at least useful as that is the general concensus of those that use her regularly.

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6 hours ago, Inappropriate_noob said:

This guy gets creative, and I like that, there was another vid which I watched where a guy sank a couple of ships on Two Brothers with GZ secondaries, 

 

 

Aha here it is.... Total potato's, I think not

 

 

Just but put your secondary GK captain on Graf Zeppelin, add the secondary modules and flag and gently bum the enemy by appearing.

 

I really want to have a division with a DD that can use smoke, or something with crawling smoke such as Zara, Huanghe or Perth. Since their smoking ability lasts longer just not in one spot. But as any ship you should never be standing still anyways in open waters.

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If they fix the Bomb drops she'll already be fine imho, but as it is right now the DBs are veeeeeeeeeeery unreliable, like i had a training room session and couldnt hit standstill ships of the same tier, 1 drop even made an x pattern cause the right bomb missed on the left and the other way around xD  If you could reliably hit both bombs she might have some of the best bombers all of a sudden cause the pattern works from all directions and you dont spend as much time in AA as with the other T8 DBs.  Also Jericho Sirens !

 

But yeah, right now it could be better. 

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25 minutes ago, mcboernester said:

If they fix the Bomb drops she'll already be fine imho, but as it is right now the DBs are veeeeeeeeeeery unreliable, like i had a training room session and couldnt hit standstill ships of the same tier, 1 drop even made an x pattern cause the right bomb missed on the left and the other way around xD  If you could reliably hit both bombs she might have some of the best bombers all of a sudden cause the pattern works from all directions and you dont spend as much time in AA as with the other T8 DBs.  Also Jericho Sirens !

 

But yeah, right now it could be better. 

Its ap bombs should be better. It's not a line ship. It's a premium ship. The most expensive of its tier at that. Yes it shouldn't be Pay to win, but 46 bux for a ship that wasn't even finished because of the way war went and H. Didn't want to roll more dices than he already did. Kinda eh how to say it nicely unfair. Sure great collection ship and great secondaries. But it's main purpose it can barely fulfill. 

 

And no if the secondaries will be nerfed for balancing of the improved ap bombers. I'd petition against it. 

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