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Excavatus

Secondary Yamato!

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Ok,

 

I love secondary specced ships for randoms.

They are hilarous! and amazingly fun for me.

So, as anyone can guess my pricess is my LM GK.

However, we've discussed with a couple friends about secondary yamatos!

I know everybody looks at them for noobs.. like SE yamatos.

 

But I got curious, and made some calculations.

So, a secondary specced yamato will have 10.5k range, where as GK has 11.6..

Yeah almost a km short, but still not bad.

but.. the but is coming..

Yamatos secondaries fire %20 more shells per minute,

and with the amazing IJN HE shell damage, it actually has way more on paper DPM then GK..

I mean the difference is %68.. Yamato secondaries can do %68 more damage than GK secondaries.

I know how much damage I do per match in my GK with secondaries..

Yes, at close range I cannot tank like GK.. but.. but..

 

Now, please tell me, why shouldn't I do it.. really.. technically.. gameplay wise..

for randoms... why?

 

PS: I don't have the yamato, I have musashi, but grinding to yammy as well.. I may hasten that grind just for this :D

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10 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

Now, please tell me, why shouldn't I do it.. really.. technically.. gameplay wise..

for randoms... why?

high tier is camping 90% of the time unless it's a roflstomp

same reason why secondary builds for germans are meh you will do not get in the range most of the time to use the effectively
i also believe the german secondaries have the 1/4 pen ? (don't know about that not a BB player)

 

10 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

I know everybody looks at them for noobs.. like SE yamatos.

With SE you waste 3 points when you go for full secondary build you waste even more depends what you want ( AFT = more range 4 Points / BFT = faster fire rate 3 Points/ Manual secondaries 4 Points)
You could invest those points way better like in Fire Prevention for 4 Point skills or BoS for a 3 Point skill. Those Skills are every match usefull unlike secondary skills.
 

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Yamatos Secondaries only pen 20 / 25mm or armor, while GK has 31 / 37mm (depending on the caliber).

So under no circumstances, the small caliber guns will deal reliable damage, even if you specc for IFHE. Basicly, you can buff the penetration to 27mm which will only hurt Cruisers. The big guns can pen BB plating then.

Not sure, if using all your points for AFT/IFHE/M-Sec is a worthwhile investment on TX :cap_hmm:

 

Also, IJN BBs get "worse" (compared to others) dispersion the closer you get. So basicly you shoot your own foot by going into secondary range.

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12 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

Now, please tell me, why shouldn't I do it.. really.. technically.. gameplay wise..

for randoms... why?

You... are... gonna.... buuuuuurn.

(and are very vulnerable to being rushed down)

 

That aside, the IJN shells may have more theoretical dpm (I'm not at home so i can't check on my Yama)

but just like the Massachusetts you'll need IFHE to pen the hull of anything but DDs since you get the standard 1/6 penetration (20mm).

and even then you can't even pen cruiser hulls everywhere (any 30mm deck- or side-plating will foil you)

So you can try playing her like bigger, clumsier Mass with better guns if you want,

just be aware that the Mass is way more nimble, does not get the massive citadel-weakness if an enemy BB manages to get you into a brawl

and has the massive advantage of having a shorter DC- and Heal-CD that allows her to stay close without bleeding HP too fast,

 

So i wouldn't recommend it.

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[-AP-]
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isnt the main blocker for yamato seconderies its armor scheme?

 

The front of the citadel is angled to the sides, so if you show any angle, you get citadel-blapped in the cheek.

To get most of your secondaries firing, you need to angle, which means you are showing the enemy an angled cheek.

 

You could probably get away with showing this to cruisers, but you wouldnt be able to use your secondaries against battleships in most cases, although maybe when angled away.

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Because your Yamato will burn like a bonfire all the time.

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GK gets 1/4 pen for all his secondaries and with IFHE you can pen 32 mm of armor.

Yamato, even with IFHE, can only pen 27 mm (yes, the two 155 mm Mogami turrets can pen 32 mm, but the abysmal fire rate make them pretty useless). So Yamatos secondaries aren't anywhere close as good as GKs.

 

Nevertheless, it can still be fun.

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12 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

Ok,

 

I love secondary specced ships for randoms.

They are hilarous! and amazingly fun for me.

So, as anyone can guess my pricess is my LM GK.

However, we've discussed with a couple friends about secondary yamatos!

I know everybody looks at them for noobs.. like SE yamatos.

 

But I got curious, and made some calculations.

So, a secondary specced yamato will have 10.5k range, where as GK has 11.6..

Yeah almost a km short, but still not bad.

but.. the but is coming..

Yamatos secondaries fire %20 more shells per minute,

and with the amazing IJN HE shell damage, it actually has way more on paper DPM then GK..

I mean the difference is %68.. Yamato secondaries can do %68 more damage than GK secondaries.

I know how much damage I do per match in my GK with secondaries..

Yes, at close range I cannot tank like GK.. but.. but..

 

Now, please tell me, why shouldn't I do it.. really.. technically.. gameplay wise..

for randoms... why?

 

PS: I don't have the yamato, I have musashi, but grinding to yammy as well.. I may hasten that grind just for this :D

I have a half specced sec yami and it does decently situationally. 

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@Excavatus in today meta it's very bad choice to make Yama as secondary ship. Notser even changed his GK build into tank/survival. Too much spam of HE , you need to make that fires last shorter and take fire prevention. I had secondary build on Ohio and wasn't good enough. Now I'm having Montana commander on it and it's way better. 

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9 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

why?

Because Jesus say it is not right ! AMEN !

I played secondary Yammi when the GK appeared and it seemed so obsolete back than. GK put Yammi secondary out of the game, and that was like 2-3 years ago.

The ship is so sluggish, the turrets turn so slow even with Yamamoto praying to his Gods for some WD40, and that citadel bigger than a Stalingrad. The ship is perfect for sniping.

It seems so wrong that I dunno where to start.

And also, I dunno about you but I feel that the secondary builds in a T10 camp fest work if they are on a fast ship like a Georgia or a Burger than can get in fast, do some dakka and get out with a kill. This is why I don't take my GK out of port. I might try it again with the next update when they improve the dispersion and give the hidro special upgrade posibility to mount on it.

Anyway if you try it post some experience with it.

 

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There is exactly one thing that a secondary specced Yamato can absolutely wreck, and that is a DD that got too close. Yamato has like 2 Shimas per side and I do have a captain for Yamato that basically only has Manual secondaries, together with signa and mod to get 8.8 km range secondaries, where any DD that tries to go for a flank attack quickly melts. For everything else at T10, the secondaries just set fires, unlike Kurfürst, they deal little to no damage. It isn't worthless, but the opportunity cost is far too high to make it worth recommending. Just use a normal build and look for a different ship.

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1 minute ago, Sleepy_Bunny said:

There is exactly one thing that a secondary specced Yamato can absolutely wreck, and that is a DD that got too close. Yamato has like 2 Shimas per side and I do have a captain for Yamato that basically only has Manual secondaries, together with signa and mod to get 8.8 km range secondaries, where any DD that tries to go for a flank attack quickly melts. For everything else at T10, the secondaries just set fires, unlike Kurfürst, they deal little to no damage. It isn't worthless, but the opportunity cost is far too high to make it worth recommending. Just use a normal build and look for a different ship.

That's still very situational build. I'm sure you'll have more issues with fires on deck almost every battle than a DD rushing you from behind an island once every 10-15 battles....

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26 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

Ok,

 

I love secondary specced ships for randoms.

They are hilarous! and amazingly fun for me.

So, as anyone can guess my pricess is my LM GK.

However, we've discussed with a couple friends about secondary yamatos!

I know everybody looks at them for noobs.. like SE yamatos.

 

But I got curious, and made some calculations.

So, a secondary specced yamato will have 10.5k range, where as GK has 11.6..

Yeah almost a km short, but still not bad.

but.. the but is coming..

Yamatos secondaries fire %20 more shells per minute,

and with the amazing IJN HE shell damage, it actually has way more on paper DPM then GK..

I mean the difference is %68.. Yamato secondaries can do %68 more damage than GK secondaries.

I know how much damage I do per match in my GK with secondaries..

Yes, at close range I cannot tank like GK.. but.. but..

 

Now, please tell me, why shouldn't I do it.. really.. technically.. gameplay wise..

for randoms... why?

 

PS: I don't have the yamato, I have musashi, but grinding to yammy as well.. I may hasten that grind just for this :D

well mate, tried it mysef quite a while ago when musashi came out. from my experience it's worthless. GK does work coz ifhe, which does nothing for yama secs afaik. fun and viable on paper, in practice i think that build didnt last a week here. sry to burst ur bubble :Smile_child::Smile_hiding:

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5 minutes ago, MrWastee said:

ifhe, which does nothing for yama secs afaik

It allows her to pen the majority of cruiser armour instead of only superstructures and DDs.

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17 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

That's still very situational build. I'm sure you'll have more issues with fires on deck almost every battle than a DD rushing you from behind an island once every 10-15 battles....

Well, guess why I closed with this.

20 minutes ago, Sleepy_Bunny said:

There is exactly one thing that a secondary specced Yamato can absolutely wreck, and that is a DD that got too close. Yamato has like 2 Shimas per side and I do have a captain for Yamato that basically only has Manual secondaries, together with signa and mod to get 8.8 km range secondaries, where any DD that tries to go for a flank attack quickly melts. For everything else at T10, the secondaries just set fires, unlike Kurfürst, they deal little to no damage. It isn't worthless, but the opportunity cost is far too high to make it worth recommending. Just use a normal build and look for a different ship.

And no, the trade-off isn't too big. Yamato still works. Just not something you'd run in competitive.

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20 minutes ago, rnat said:

It allows her to pen the majority of cruiser armour instead of only superstructures and DDs.

thx, didnt been aware of that. question in that regard then is: how often there's cc's within secrange for which it would be a good math to spec a 4 skillpts skill?... in my experience, as said, in that regard: kinda never.

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OK OK! EVERYONE!

giphy.gif

 

I'M NOT DOING IT! JESUS!!!

 

On a more serious note,

yeah, I don't think fire would be a much bigger problem then a GK.

Yeah the pen is the problem, because of 1/4 then the IFHE is a must be.

But I wasn't thinkin about using it as a pushing brawler, but especially mid and late game.. I don't know.

 

Massa, georgia, ohio, richeleu, alsace, repo.. they can be all secondary specced with 1/4 HE pen..

They can do amazing thigs..

I was thinking not using it like my GK, but in between a sniper and late game pusher..

giving AFT, BFT will help with planes a little more as a side benefit..

 

I understand everybodies concern :) and I agree with all of that..

but no argument can give better results than an experiment :)

 

First training room, then co-op then live.

 

but @MrWastee

I've looked at up musashi, she has less secondaries than the yammy.. significantly less

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Attempting to close to 2ndary range in today's high tier meta is often suicidal.

Not to mention Yamato tends to dislike close range engagements.

 

So yeah.

Don't.

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5 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

OK OK! EVERYONE!

giphy.gif

 

I'M NOT DOING IT! JESUS!!!

 

On a more serious note,

yeah, I don't think fire would be a much bigger problem then a GK.

Yeah the pen is the problem, because of 1/4 then the IFHE is a must be.

But I wasn't thinkin about using it as a pushing brawler, but especially mid and late game.. I don't know.

 

Massa, georgia, ohio, richeleu, alsace, repo.. they can be all secondary specced with 1/4 HE pen..

They can do amazing thigs..

I was thinking not using it like my GK, but in between a sniper and late game pusher..

giving AFT, BFT will help with planes a little more as a side benefit..

 

I understand everybodies concern :) and I agree with all of that..

but no argument can give better results than an experiment :)

 

First training room, then co-op then live.

 

but @MrWastee

I've looked at up musashi, she has less secondaries than the yammy.. significantly less

yeah, i know :D.... i tried it out on both with the same captn ;). but, if i recall right, by that time ijn secs still used to shoot ap as well, so yeah..... might be outdated anyway ^^ ;D.... check it and give feedback. luv sec builds myself :)

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There are so many reasons why you don't sec spec a Yam mate.  I have been there and done that because i do enjoy a good old scrap, however:

 

1) You burn...I mean you really really burn if you don't spec into BOS, FP and all that jazz.

2) You get spotted from the moon and burn.....So more burning.

3) You are not a brawling BB.  Your guns are sooo SLLLOOOWWW that is extremely unsuited to brawling and secondary speccing a ship is asking for a brawl at some stage. 

4) No turtleback.  So you will get your cits blown out in double figures. 

5) You have worse angles for your secondaries in the Yam than your Kurf.  So to get all your secondary firing you have to show your broadside.  Please see note 4.

6) You don't have 1/4 rule pen so 20-25mm is your max.  

7) The HE spam meta is seriously against you.

8) You will burn.

 

But apart from all that.....yeah its alright for it:cap_like:

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18 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

First training room, then co-op then live.

No0ooooooooooooooooo

DO IT DIRECTLY IN RANKED !

#RankedHorrorStories  :cat_cool:

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Hi all,

 

1 hour ago, Excavatus said:

Ok,

 

I love secondary specced ships for randoms.

They are hilarous! and amazingly fun for me.

So, as anyone can guess my pricess is my LM GK.

However, we've discussed with a couple friends about secondary yamatos!

I know everybody looks at them for noobs.. like SE yamatos.

 

But I got curious, and made some calculations.

So, a secondary specced yamato will have 10.5k range, where as GK has 11.6..

Yeah almost a km short, but still not bad.

but.. the but is coming..

Yamatos secondaries fire %20 more shells per minute,

and with the amazing IJN HE shell damage, it actually has way more on paper DPM then GK..

I mean the difference is %68.. Yamato secondaries can do %68 more damage than GK secondaries.

I know how much damage I do per match in my GK with secondaries..

Yes, at close range I cannot tank like GK.. but.. but..

 

Now, please tell me, why shouldn't I do it.. really.. technically.. gameplay wise..

for randoms... why?

 

PS: I don't have the yamato, I have musashi, but grinding to yammy as well.. I may hasten that grind just for this :D

 

IMHO the best way to "play" with such "experiments" is to wait for the the free Captain Respec days... then you can really "play" with every setting with little harm done (and possibly you will have "Yamato" by that time)... :Smile_great:

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

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Can some mod please lock this silly thread??

 

OP is clearly trolling. He must be, no? I mean secondary Yamato?? 

 

@Excavatus please put some sense in the OP. Oh wait nevermind :Smile_bajan2:

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2 hours ago, Excavatus said:

OK OK! EVERYONE!

 

 

I'M NOT DOING IT! JESUS!!!

 

Don't let other peoples "facts" dissuade you from this! :Smile_veryhappy:

 

Ok it may not be optimal but it is damned funny and what's more important success or enjoying  the game?!? 

 

Even think about not taking IFHE but keeping DE for the fire chance and that way you can spend your points on FP to limit your burning.

 

I've got secondary specced ships and captains for most tiers 2 and up, largely German I grant you but some of the IJN ones as well. You'll do OK you can still brawl in the current meta it's just harder but when it works it's glorious!

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3 hours ago, Excavatus said:

Massa, georgia, ohio, richeleu, alsace, repo.. they can be all secondary specced with 1/4 HE pen

.....no ?

*checks game*

no.

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