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invicta2012

Italian Cruisers - One Month On (and a bit)

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So... how is everyone finding the RM Cruisers? Stats suggest they are hard to learn, ineffective at low-mid-tiers, and yet the Tier VII, VIII, IX and X are class-leading silver cruisers. Was there too much grumbling about SAP?

 

Having played a fair few games in these things I've got a few suggestions to make....

 

Tier II/III - almost OP,  yet their stats are bottom of the pile. L2P, kids.

IV - OK ish, nothing to see here

V - Raimondo. Oh dear. Performing worse than Krasny Krym. Suggest reducing reload to 12.5-13 seconds or adding an extra smoke charge?

V Premium - Luigi Cadorna. Tier IV Light Cruiser, standard HE and AP, Fuel smoke or Heal. Dodge or die....

VI - Trento - doing pretty well. Would like to see her get a historic torpedo load out (quad launchers, not triples) for extra gusto and the occasions when SAP lets you down

VII Premium - Duca Degli D'Abruzzi - to get the ability to mount Fuel Smoke or Heal

 

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RM Cruisers are absolutely brutal when facing DDs and CLs.
That's their playstyle and what they should do - kill DDs.
If a Venezia gets anywhere within like 12km, you as a DD are in deep trouble. It can and will chunk 10-15k out of you, 2 salvos are enough to take out a DD.
If you are in a gunboat with bad concealment like the Kaba or the Harugumo... well, bow down, grab your ankles....

They can be very influential in the match and saw off the superstructure of BBs as well. CA seem to be their worst match tho.

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I had no luck with Zara. Amalfi is vastly improved because of the gun layout. In the Wiki, it's written that it's at tier8, when you can decide, if you like the line, or not. Anyway, I was frustrated sometimes because of the SAP, but never got bored, that's why I like this line. I even chased a Massachusetts once, as he turned back fearing of the Amalfi torps, and I did more damage to her, than she could do to me. The chase ended, because we lost by points.

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20 minutes ago, TheEntireGermanEmpire said:

That's their playstyle and what they should do - kill DDs.

 

Totaly agree with this one. Only played my first random today in Montecuccoli, and killed 4 out of 5 DDs :Smile_teethhappy:

2 Salvos you kill every same tier DDs, its rediculous. Cant buff the reload more i think...

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[CATS]
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SAP is too situational for my taste, but one can make it work. I would prefer a lower alpha, but faster reload.

Still WG needs to take a look at specific ships like Genova.

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T5 Raimundo: no problem (all cruisers at that tier are squishy).

T6 Trento: slowww turrets, slowww reload.

T7 Zara: had fun with it.

T8 Amalfi: ended up in T10 matches all the time, frustrating experience to say the least.

T9: finally got a click with the line. Very good DD hunter. One more turret and I quess you can one-shot DDs.

 

I’m pretty much a DD main, and I learned to keep my distance from the Italian cruisers the hard way.

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41 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Still WG needs to take a look at specific ships like Genova.

Genova is quirky. I like that.

 

12 minutes ago, Bushpanther said:

T5 Raimundo: no problem (all cruisers at that tier are squishy).

It's not squishy, per se, as much as there's no Tier V cruiser which is as bad as dealing with battleships. Emerald explodes when she sees one, but she can also dev strike it into oblivion. Raimondo can't do that... a bit of a dead duck, really. 

 

I know what people mean about wrecking Destroyers and Cruisers and it's nice to see Heavy Cruisers given some genuine punch.... but then this is no better than an equivalent CL (What Destroyer wouldn't avoid a Leander, Dallas, Fiji or Helena?) and the Italian cruisers still struggle against larger ships. 

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Monte.. (tier 5) - bad, hated playing it

Trento (tier 6) - bad, did not enjoy playing it

Zara (tier 7) - good. The ship is growing on me, and after getting citadelled a lot and misusing smoke when I first got it, I’m now at the point where the ship ‘clicks’. I do between 40.000 and 60.000 damage per match now and survivability has increased as well. 

Just have to accept the ship is nothing like its well armoured historic counterpart and showing your side is an automatic citadel. You have to use your brains playing this line which I like.

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24 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

Genova is quirky. I like that.

 

It's not squishy, per se, as much as there's no Tier V cruiser which is as bad as dealing with battleships. Emerald explodes when she sees one, but she can also dev strike it into oblivion. Raimondo can't do that... a bit of a dead duck, really. 

 

I know what people mean about wrecking Destroyers and Cruisers and it's nice to see Heavy Cruisers given some genuine punch.... but then this is no better than an equivalent CL (What Destroyer wouldn't avoid a Leander, Dallas, Fiji or Helena?) and the Italian cruisers still struggle against larger ships. 

 

The difference is, when italian cruisers take opportunity shots vs dd’s they do far more damage than any other cruiser. Also, at tier 7 at least the Zara is more than capable of dishing out pain to large ships.

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I haven't played them at all since the event where I got Montepasta and Trento.

 

They are sitting in my port until they get properly buffed/improved.

 

On the other hand, I did sink plenty of Italian cruisers, mostly with AP which seems deadly to them. Even with small caliber guns from some DDs or Smolensk.

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I just unlocked Zara. The IT cruisers remind me a bit of Hindenburg, it isn't easy to get the AP to work but if you pull it off the rewards are great (true for both AP and SAP). As others already said, the SAP does disgusting things to DDs even at range. This line requires a bit of thinking to be played effectively which I like, e.g. where to aim with SAP.

I had the opportunity to use the smoke offensively in a rush against a Texas/NY, it was hilarious.

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Recently got the Zara, but I'm finding you have to really out play the enemy to be able to even do any effective damage, so far the line for me:

 

T1 = Very solid ship with Fast reloading turrets, good manoeuvrability, good concealment and most importantly HE.

 

T2 = Balanced against itself, though odd how the 3.5 reload on the same sized guns turned into 12 seconds...

 

T3 = Only way to damage BBs was with torps...

 

T4 = very squishy but had decent AA for tier 4, most other aspects were fairly meh.

 

T5 = I found it fairly decent actually but only due to the 10.1km concealment allowing you to ambush broadside cruisers with AP (Cause the SAP was so unreliable) though the issue was that the AP is so low alpha that it takes a lot of citadels to kill a cruiser and with the terrible reload you can get your ambush turned on you. SAP I only used on DDs and from max range on BBs (When there was nothing left to shoot at) Cause the plunging fire with the spotting aircraft meant you could get some consistent pens on the deck.

 

T6 = Worst ship so far. Mostly due to the awful concealment 12.7km with a full stealth build, Pensacola is better and Even most BBs of the tier will out spot you for example the Arizona. Basically the role of an alpha strike ship is already done better with the Pensacola that not only has more guns but the AP shell velocity is actually higher, it has better stealth, better armour, Hydro, HE and a very fast rudder. Only thing the Trento has over the Pensacola is speed which is not that amazing as the Aoba is just as fast. SAP was again unreliable I always felt surprised when it actually did damage. Once again I ended up only using the SAP on DDs and BBs when there was nothing else to shoot. Used the AP a fair bit cause of the overmatch on tier 5s and punishing broadside Cruisers when within 11km...

 

T7 = So far it isn't too bad, only just got the hull upgrade, turning circle is great, but it just makes you loose too much speed, much prefer the handling of the New Orleans. Still a massive citadel, 12.2km concealment is better but still IMO needs to be at least 0.5km better to be competitive. Speed in not there so harder to dodge. SAP I'm finding a bit more reliable but still would have preferred a faster reload with a weak HE shell. AP is fairly decent on broadside cruisers but SAP does more damage to everything else so it doesn't have much use. All but one of my games were tier 9 so it's been a bit of a struggle, but not as much as the Trento.

 

The smoke doesn't add to much to the line as you have so few of them would rather have a Hydro TBH, rudders I feel need to be 1 sec faster across the board with a increase in turning circle to compensate. Smokes would be more useful if they were just shorter duration and with a faster reload and more of them, then maybe they could have had Hydro as you can't use them offensively. SAP is so unreliable at least until tier 6/7 (but OP when shot at DDs) lower alpha as has been said and a faster reload, will also help the abysmal AP DPM... WG already said that they are keeping the SAP, so we will just have to deal with it...

 

Forgot the citadels are humongous from tier 6-9 which makes them easier to citadel than RN CLs on the open, would have been nice if they kept the double layered hulls from the tier 5 and 10...

 

As a side note, from this graph guess where the point where I started grinding the Italian line is...

2019-11-25.thumb.png.bd7137ccc35b757eeadba42767e1d0a7.png

 

Biggest drop was just due to the Trento...

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6 hours ago, invicta2012 said:

So... how is everyone finding the RM Cruisers? Stats suggest they are hard to learn, ineffective at low-mid-tiers, and yet the Tier VII, VIII, IX and X are class-leading silver cruisers. Was there too much grumbling about SAP?

 

Having played a fair few games in these things I've got a few suggestions to make....

 

Tier II/III - almost OP,  yet their stats are bottom of the pile. L2P, kids.

IV - OK ish, nothing to see here

V - Raimondo. Oh dear. Performing worse than Krasny Krym. Suggest reducing reload to 12.5-13 seconds or adding an extra smoke charge?

V Premium - Luigi Cadorna. Tier IV Light Cruiser, standard HE and AP, Fuel smoke or Heal. Dodge or die....

VI - Trento - doing pretty well. Would like to see her get a historic torpedo load out (quad launchers, not triples) for extra gusto and the occasions when SAP lets you down

VII Premium - Duca Degli D'Abruzzi - to get the ability to mount Fuel Smoke or Heal

 

When these are done, what is coming next?

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Must say I like this line after Montecuccili. Must admit I free xp'd III and IV didn't want to be CV food. At T-IX atm

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I am unlocking the Venezia soon, will be a nice port queen. Zao can do the same sneaking stuff, and a lot more, Henry is a lot better at kiting away. 

 

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T5 and 6 are brutal vs. most cruisers and DDs because of the opponents you meet at those tiers. Most cruisers won't angle correctly or are easily ambushed and deleted with broadside AP.  T7 was meh and as soon as you get into T8 and T9 most cruisers know how to not get caught broadside, and most DDs play more elusive, so deleting DDs is more up to chance then it is a matter of these ships being good DD hunters, because they lack the tools. Only the SAP happens to be brutal against light armor, but the reload sucks against DD's and the ships lack hydro. They do Dodge torps well, but that doesn't kill DDs by itself. I find it hard to carry matches with them from T7 up since they can't reliably hunt DDs, can't alpha or widdle down BBs properly except from max range and by yoloing the smoke torp combo which is hilarious by itself, but still utterly stupid.

 

So once opponents know what they are doing only even a bit, these cruisers become unreliable for me as far as carry potential goes.

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7 hours ago, Bushpanther said:

I quess you can one-shot DDs.

Yes you def. can
 

Spoiler

1918448050_Unbenannt1.png.e566de301667656ba2aa166cb8d02a7a.pngUnbenannt.png.147b20497401efba886e54606ee48368.png

I got via Event the Trento so i never needed to play the T5.
Trento is okaish but her gun velocity is kinda low.
Zara is very fun to play and a good ship overall, was a good grind.
Amalfi is still a solid ship but imo. not as strong in T8 as Zara in T7.
atm. at the Brindisi and it's a monster of a ship. The Power to onehit DD's and when BB's give you broadside on a good range you can easily deal 12k in one SAP Salvo.

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I kinda like the line so far, I've just arrived at the Amalfi and played a few games with it. As mentioned the tier V and VI seem kinda weak, although the Trento did start to grow on me a little bit just as I was finishing the grind. 

 

It seems to me that SAP is almost always the go to ammo though, unless you can guarantee citadels the SAP simply does more damage consistently on broadsides anyways. But I may need to experiment more with AP. :cap_rambo:

 

I like the smoke, although it takes a little bit of thinking to use it properly. I've been trying to hide in it plenty of times while still firing the guns and not taking the concealement range in smoke into account :cap_look:

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I found them pretty bad at mid tiers. Never touched any of them below t5, so I can't comment on the low tiers. Zara was a mixed bag for me, sometimes I'd have loads of fun, sometimes I'd swear at SAP...

 

 Amalfi seems like an improvement and that it might actually be fun and effective - I paused her grind for a bit until I can get Sansonetti (I want him to get the captain xp on him as I grind to t10). Judging by the performance of Venezias I'd say the t10 is pretty strong.

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From my limited surface ship experience against them apparently the point of the RM cruiser line is to make cruisers and DDs miserable while being mediocre to downright impotent against BBs.

 

Just what this game needed. :Smile_facepalm:

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Seems like the italians get good at tier 7, shame i didnt unlock zara straight away, oh well.

 

hopefully trento isnt too bad.

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8 hours ago, Chaos_Umbra said:

 

 

T6 = Worst ship so far.

 

Biggest drop was just due to the Trento...

Totally agree...The worst most painful grind so far, this ship should come with a free prescription of anti depressants.

 

just couldn't get the hang of this ship because of its stock 14.6k detectability  which is ridiculous for a cruiser. You got to grind out 10 cap points for CE before this ship becomes remotely playable...and up till then as you said you get picked off from every enemy BB taking shots at you from the other side of the map. Just a BB piñata basically... Due to the slow reload I was ineffective when it came to other tier 6 knife fights as well, Leander easily won with its high DPM, Nurnberg out penned me (better armour 6 sec reload) etc etc.just a horrible experience.

 

Zara Seems to be a different kettle of fish, starting to enjoy this line now, just  death incarnate for any DD close enough for that alpha to take effect, brutal AP against broadside cruisers. tried her out with the Italian captain Luigi Sansaneti on pt and oh boy he can really make this line sing from 7 up. A Must for this line imo.

 

 

 

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Got  to play the zara before the release ans I kinda liked it and I was performing quite well. When the line got released i bad enogh so to get the brindisi right away.

Struggle as hell in that ship , not dmg wise but all the rest just sucked for me...guns seemed to be cursed. Broadside dds at 9 km one hit and nothing more. Dds on the team refusing to contest caps even if i was right behind them to blap the enemy ones (useless to say that this kind of playstyle got me blapped more than once)

Last night i unlocked the Venezia and oh boy that thing is Made for me!

Only 2 games, one with 6 kills and 180+k dmg the second one 4 kills and 160k 

The line is very hit or miss and not potato friendly. Easy to kill, smoke firing penalty is quite huge for dedicated dd hunters cruisers , gun arcs is not like american one so no Island huggin and sap needs to hit the right spot to do the dmg it is supposed to

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