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Mercy_Main

Citadel hits with AP dive bombers

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Hi,

 

I seem to be having a hard time getting citadel hits on BBs & cruisers with the Japanese dive bombers. Most of the time bombs will overpenetrate. Against DDs I can't seem to deal any damage with the AP bombers at all except for a measly 750 dmg overpen, which makes sense but I just want to know if this was intended to be or I'm just bombing DDs the wrong way. Any experienced CV players got some advice? 

 

 

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Dont use on dds, on cruisers dive until last seconds on bb release bombs on max height, simple as that for start.

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4 minutes ago, Yamato942 said:

Dont use on dds, on cruisers dive until last seconds on bb release bombs on max height, simple as that for start.

That's just cause they're AP bombs? With US & UK CVs I can bomb the DDs just fine.

 

As for BBs and cruisers, I do get the occasional cit hits but when they overpen or just penetrate with low damage it means I've missed their citadel? In other words, AP bombers are pretty much only effective when scoring cit hits?

 

 

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Just now, Mercy_Main said:

That's just cause they're AP bombs? With US & UK CVs I can bomb the DDs just fine 

 

 

 

Those others are not AP Bombs.

You got rockets to fight DDs.

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1 minute ago, Mercy_Main said:

That's just cause they're AP bombs? With US & UK CVs I can bomb the DDs just fine

 

 

You can but its easier with rockets.

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7 minutes ago, Mercy_Main said:

That's just cause they're AP bombs? With US & UK CVs I can bomb the DDs just fine.

 

As for BBs and cruisers, I do get the occasional cit hits but when they overpen or just penetrate with low damage it means I've missed their citadel? In other words, AP bombers are pretty much only effective when scoring cit hits?

 

 

 

As mentioned US and Royal Navy CVS use HE bombs. The only exception to this is the Enterprise which carriers AP bombs (and I think the Kaga is the exception for the Japanese in that it uses HE bombs). You want to use AP bombs on German and I think Japanese BBs along with most cruisers. You'll want to vary your drop height based on what ship you're going after. You want to drop high for most BBs So they act like a shell plunging straight down through the deck, with cruisers you want to aim at about the mid-dive. I'm not expert on this but I did personally ask our resident carrier expert (El2aZer) for advice on AP bombs a while back.

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15 minutes ago, Mercy_Main said:

That's just cause they're AP bombs? With US & UK CVs I can bomb the DDs just fine.

AP bombs work against DDs in a pinch, I've killed DDs with Enterprise DBs when the opportunity arose. But they're not super effective, usually you'll just get overpen damage.

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10 minutes ago, Uglesett said:

AP bombs work against DDs in a pinch, I've killed DDs with Enterprise DBs when the opportunity arose. But they're not super effective, usually you'll just get overpen damage.

Whats the ideal height to drop on dds then? Does speed matter as well? I've noticed my bombs are more likely to overpen when I use the speed boost while lining up my target. Maybe that's just placebo

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9 minutes ago, Mercy_Main said:

Whats the ideal height to drop on dds then?

Tbh, I just drop when I think I have a fair chance of scoring a hit. I don't think I've ever scored a full penetration on a DD with AP bombs.

 

AP bombs are an opportunity weapon against DDs. If you can secure a kill, go for it. Otherwise, it's rarely worth it. Better to just keep it spotted, at least if you have teammates with enough situational awareness to shoot them (optimistic, I know).

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1 hour ago, Mercy_Main said:

Hi,

 

I seem to be having a hard time getting citadel hits on BBs & cruisers with the Japanese dive bombers. Most of the time bombs will overpenetrate. Against DDs I can't seem to deal any damage with the AP bombers at all except for a measly 750 dmg overpen, which makes sense but I just want to know if this was intended to be or I'm just bombing DDs the wrong way. Any experienced CV players got some advice? 

1. AP DBs are hard to master, because they are the CVs strongest tool.  You want to drop down the length of the ship by approaching the bow or stern of the target (opposite of TBs). It took me dozens of games to learn consistency.

2. Try them out in a training room vs stationary targets  first, then coop vs targets moving in a straight line (use same tier german BBs or CLs for target practice since you should definitely be able to citadel those).

3. DDs dont have citadels, so the best you can get are overpens. You can citadel all cruisers and most BBs, but some (usually higher tier) BBs have enough plating on the deck or citadel roof to be impenetraple (Kremlin cannot be citadeled by Shokaku, but Hakuruy citadels it all day). You can find the pen values on google (or helpful forumite) and compare them to deck armor in the WoWs armor viewer. Also pre-nerf Conquerer was completely immune to citadels.

4. Some targets (Republique) have a very narrow citadel and citadels are rare and requires you to drop exactly in the middle of the ship.

 

59 minutes ago, Yamato942 said:

Dont use on dds, on cruisers dive until last seconds on bb release bombs on max height, simple as that for start.

Height has no impact on armor penetration, but it does affect the bombs the angle of attack.

The bombs will land where you place the target indicator, but the drop time untill hit is different depending on height.

Thus you have to factor in the relative speed of the target and planes, so you will have to place the target marker ahead of the target, and more so if attacking from the bow.

45 minutes ago, DrMechano said:

You want to drop high for most BBs So they act like a shell plunging straight down through the deck, with cruisers you want to aim at about the mid-dive. 

See above. Drop too late (after the plane straighten out) and bombs will bounce.

This is different from using HE bombs which can still penetrate regardless of angle.

The more vertikal the better with AP bombs, so you can drop all the way through the dive untill the planes start moving forward.

When you should drop depends on your aim ( = hit the center of the target)

AP bombs can be inconsistent, sort of like BB guns.

Sometimes RNG hates you and only yields overpens,  butmost times 1 citadel, rarely 2-3 citadels per drop.

 

TL;DR

Generally with AP bombs, you need to focus on hitting the middle of the ship and that depends on drop time and opponent speed, so practicing different heights is not a bad idea (but height does not influence armor penetration except indirecly through the angle of attack). Differently from HE bombs you cannot drop late, because AP bombs that hit angled armor will bouce.

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5 hours ago, Mercy_Main said:

As for BBs and cruisers, I do get the occasional cit hits but when they overpen or just penetrate with low damage it means I've missed their citadel?

Overpens are overpens, through and through, and it doesn't matter where in the ship you make new holes. It's always 10 % of the shell / bomb maximum damage.

The game doesn't tell where you hit in that case. This is something I'd also prefer to see since it would help with learning, and for example adjusting drop height of AP bombs. "You hit it, but..."

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10 hours ago, Mercy_Main said:

That's just cause they're AP bombs? With US & UK CVs I can bomb the DDs just fine.

 

As for BBs and cruisers, I do get the occasional cit hits but when they overpen or just penetrate with low damage it means I've missed their citadel? In other words, AP bombers are pretty much only effective when scoring cit hits?

 

 

AP bombs follow the same mechanics as AP shells - they require enough armor to arm themselves (around 25-30mm) and have their fuse time. Late bomb drops, at shallower angle have tendency to not reach citadel, also on number of battleships its difficult, if not outright impossible to reach citadel from above, as bomb explodes before reaching it.

 

Basically unless you're trying to bomb VERY paper armored ship like Konigberg or destroyers, where bomb meets not enough resistance to arm itself, you should drop bombs early, with bombs hitting as close to vertical as possible.

 

Almost all cruisers, German, UK, RU, battleships are valid IJN AP bomb targets. US can be inconsistent, especially dreadnoughts, FR are almost universally out of reach, due to citadel ending at waterline AND raised deck in center part of the ship. Also VERY narrow citadel.

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