Dive Bombers

[NecroFlex]

So i just got the Independence and it has DBs, just like TBs they have ALT-fire, which isn't hard to hit, so i jumped into a co-op game to test it out, so went to a ship (Nagato has killer AA), got there 1 DB got taken out and i ALT-fired the dive bombers, directly on the ship, middle of it, 4/5 bombs hit...did ~2k dmg not even setting him on fire.

Now my question is, what's the point of dive bombers? I mean, torpedos do 10k+ damage each and cause flooding while 4/6 bombs do around 2k damage and don't set on fire. So are DBs equipped with potato bombs or what?

[Bl4ckh0g]

I once did a staggering amount of 74 damage to a Kongo with my brave dive-bombers.....

I was like

Poor guy never recovered from the shock....

[Hauptbahnhof]

So i just got the Independence and it has DBs, just like TBs they have ALT-fire, which isn't hard to hit, so i jumped into a co-op game to test it out, so went to a ship (Nagato has killer AA), got there 1 DB got taken out and i ALT-fired the dive bombers, directly on the ship, middle of it, 4/5 bombs hit...did ~2k dmg not even setting him on fire.

Now my question is, what's the point of dive bombers?

 

Historically the point of divebombers with explosive bombs would be to kill the AAA of Battleships, they could not cause serious damage to them.

 

Dive bombers would be used primary against lighter armored targets like destroyers, carriers, smaller cruisers and such.

 

To be effective against Battleships we would need to be able to equip them with armor piercing bombs, but those were often too heavy for dive bombers. For example the famous bomb that blew up the USS Arizona at Pearl Harbour was dropped from a B5N doing level bombing ( in WoWs we can only use these kind of aircraft for torpedo bombing ).

 

 

It would be interesting if torpedo bombers could also be equipped with AP bombs for level bombing ( low accuracy against mobile targets, but higher altitude so better protected from AAA ), and if we could equip divebombers with AP ( chance to do higher damage to armored cruisers and battleships ). Then you need to decide on what target you want to be able to engage before launching a squad of bombers.

[Phantombeast]

Dive bombers are actually pretty good in scaring off DDs and setting fire to the flight deck of the enemy CV. Against heavy armored BBs decks, well .... not much you can do there at the moment.

But all in all, I think your point is valid, the DB are to weak at the moment.

[Ebusus]

Choosing loadouts for your planes would be a nice addition.

[bombuhr]

From what I've read and seen in different documentaries it seemed Dive bombers were very effective against carriers. Specially if they got lucky with timing.

Like bombing a deck full of bombs, fuel and planes on it.

 

As an example:

If memory serves me right the USS Washington was crippled and put out of action by just 1 dive bomber that scored 2 hits on it. Causing a massive inferno.

Also wasn't it the US dive bombers that knocked out the first Japanese carrier at midway?

 

It would be nice if Dive bombers had a more devastating effect when attacking opposing Carriers.

[Hauptbahnhof]

As an example:

If memory serves me right the USS Washington was crippled and put out of action by just 1 dive bomber that scored 2 hits on it. Causing a massive inferno.

Also wasn't it the US dive bombers that knocked out the first Japanese carrier at midway?

 

Midway is correct yes. Attributed as you say to timing and that the Japanese fighters were drawn away to the torpedo bombers right before ( thus slaughtering them and preventing a single torpedo from hitting ).

 

Washington I can't find any information on though. Perhaps your thinking about the USS South Dakota that was hit by a 250kg explosive bomb from a dive bomber at the Philippines that killed or wounded about 50 and cut some wiring and piping but caused no major damage to the ship otherwise ( except a large hole in the deck ).

 

The main armor deck often was below several deck of crew spaces, so that is the explanation why such a bomb could kill crew, but not critically damage the ship.

[OldIronsides]

Dive Bombers didn't have HE-Bombs only, but also AP-bombs easily capable of penetrating the armoured decks of any BB.

 

Partly it's a gameplay balance thing, as dive bombers are more "instant damage" than torpedo bombers and are harder to evade than torps. So it's logical that they deal less damage ingame. 

 

Still it's riddiculous to imagine how a squadron of dive bombers scores 4 hits with 1000lb AP-Bombs and effectively does no damage...

[Hauptbahnhof]

 

Still it's riddiculous to imagine how a squadron of dive bombers scores 4 hits with 1000lb AP-Bombs and effectively does no damage...

 

I am pretty sure that the dive bombers in World of Warships only have explosive bombs currently since the main element is causing fires, just like with HE shells...

 

It also explains why they do so little damage against Battleships, unless they are able to cause fires.

[NecroFlex]

I mean, they do less damage but are more exposed to AA since they need to get ontop of the ship and aren't any faster than TBs, so yes, they do hit, but the damage vs. the speed and time exposed to the enemy AA isn't worth at all, rather have another squadron of fighters than DBs

Atm in my opinion DBs are worthless, they will be balanced either by increasing their survivability or speed or damage, one of those will help since they go in and go out, in the mean time 1-3 of the DBs die, for what? 1-2k dmg?...

[Pappus]

I don't know, but the damage they do might be little concerning direct impact, but when you use 2 divebombers and 2 torps instead of 2 torps and 2 fighters you also get to have a buff ticking on your target. I mean who cares about torpedos flooding when it will be immediately removed after the torp strike? Effectively you often cause flooding but deal 0 damage with it. If you use divebombers however it becomes different. If you use those 2 you will constantly get people to use that ability or burn and several fires are really strong damage.

 

I mean on the lexington they do up to 5000 damage - okay I have yet to see such a high hit, but I did hit for 2-3k with a single bomb on e.g. a destroyer which is a nice chunk of free damage + fire for him. If I happen to use the second one delayed and it also gets 1 bomb off it is already pretty annoying for that dude at this point and they are usually out alone. Same goes for CAs.

 

The most important thing though is I don't understand how you can play without divebombers because it takes several minutes for every torpedostrike you can do. 40s servicetime, 15s for the landing alone, getting in and back from position is 2 minutes. Often I find myself having like 2 torpedo strikes in 7 minutes, which technically is still super nice damage, but you know.... it ain't really that engaging. With divebombers at least you have something to do all the time.

[Hauptbahnhof]

Often I find myself having like 2 torpedo strikes in 7 minutes, which technically is still super nice damage, but you know.... it ain't really that engaging. With divebombers at least you have something to do all the time.

 

I think someone said the top tier Japanese Carrier can have 5 TB Squads + 3 dive bomber squads...

[Aerroon]

If they do buff dive bombers then they need to be able to be consistently dodged like torpedos.

 

[Unintentional_submarine]

If they do buff dive bombers then they need to be able to be consistently dodged like torpedos.

 

 

What the hell? Which ships were the targets? How many losses did the planes take? Were you downtiered? And finally was that through manual drop?

[Devantejah]

 

Still it's riddiculous to imagine how a squadron of dive bombers scores 4 hits with 1000lb AP-Bombs and effectively does no damage...

 

Well, we don't have any AP-bombs in game yet. It's only HE for the moment.

 

I think that when we do get AP ones they will be a little more effective against heavier targets.

[Pappus]

Dive bombers are actually pretty good in scaring off DDs and setting fire to the flight deck of the enemy CV. Against heavy armored BBs decks, well .... not much you can do there at the moment.

But all in all, I think your point is valid, the DB are to weak at the moment.

 

No they are not weak at all, but because every CV takes fighters to "protect" their torpers from fighters the enemy side may or may not have you are released into a circle. The direct damage is low, but the fire damage is tremendous. If you get 2-3 burns on a target it is almost a whole battleship worth of damage. somewhere in the 60% region for 3 fires + a bit of initial damage aswell of course so maybe 65% which is as much as I get of a torp run with 2 squads most of the time aswell. Yeah technically you could hit all torps but I don't hit all of them being all fresh and all.

 

As I said in another threat you can effectively engage 2 battleships by sending 1x torp to each ensuring a flooding. This will always trigger the repair (sometimes you have to wait because they smell it, which is no loss for you - you can wait). And then you send in the divebomber and hope for triple burn.

 

Or you can play standard and always use 2 torpers together and use the bombers to HE those ships soon engaged in battle to either put the repair on cooldown or if it already is maybe crit away a turret or whatever.

 

I just wish that I wouldn't have to run against s omany fighters with it. I mean as long as it is 1vs1 cv I don't even care if the enemy cv has fighters because unlike him I can just fight at 2 fronts while he can only torp one point and maybe hunt mine back to our line.

[Pappus]

 

What the hell? Which ships were the targets? How many losses did the planes take? Were you downtiered? And finally was that through manual drop?

 

If they do buff dive bombers then they need to be able to be consistently dodged like torpedos.

 

**snip**

 

 

Are you seriously manual dropping those? I wish their outer circle was smaller but maybe I should really just start stepping up my game and go for the manual drop until I nail it everytime on non evading targets.

[OldIronsides]

 

I am pretty sure that the dive bombers in World of Warships only have explosive bombs currently since the main element is causing fires, just like with HE shells...

 

It also explains why they do so little damage against Battleships, unless they are able to cause fires.

 

Yeah, that's why different ammo loadouts (HE _or_ AP) would be important, just like Ebusus suggested.

[Aerroon]

 

 

Are you seriously manual dropping those? I wish their outer circle was smaller but maybe I should really just start stepping up my game and go for the manual drop until I nail it everytime on non evading targets.

 

What, no, those are just magazine hits by the dive bombers. I one shot the Benson from high hp with those dive bombers. The other one was on a Cleveland I believe. It's just luck. I just noticed that I dealt a lot of damage with dive bombers twice in like 200 games and screenshotted it. However, I think that the main buff dive bombers need is accuracy. I think them not doing as much damage isn't a big deal but if dive bombers attack a battleship and get 0 hits in I'm pretty sad.

[Sharana]

Aerroon, on 07 May 2015 - 12:04 PM, said:

If they do buff dive bombers then they need to be able to be consistently dodged like torpedos.

You can't dodge all torps in a big ship, so you can't dodge all the bombs, you just need to turn, so they attack your broadside and miss most of the targets.

They can also reword the aiming where the auto attack will have big ovale and pathetic accuracy (so they are almost useless with auto attack like TBs), but nice small ovale with the alt attack. So if you can pull of nice attack from bow or stern with the alt key it should be like good attack from the broadside with torps.

 

 

 

[Sharana]

 

I am pretty sure that the dive bombers in World of Warships only have explosive bombs currently since the main element is causing fires, just like with HE shells...

From here:

http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/B/o/Bombs.htm

 

The Japanese apparently did not develop an armor-piercing bomb until 1941. The Type 99 Number 80 Mark 5, used at Pearl Harbor, was remanufactured from obsolete 16" battleship shells....The Japanese never developed an armor-piercing bomb light enough to be carried by a dive bomber, probably because they did not believe it was possible to develop a lighter AP bomb capable of penetrating battleship deck armor, and possibly also because of the shortage of the high-quality steel required for such weapons.

 

The Americans began the war with armor-piercing bombs that closely resembled the Type 99 Number 80 Mark 5. Like the Type 99, they were converted shells with a relatively small explosive fill (typically about 5% of the total weight) of ammonium picrate. However, in May 1942 the Americans introduced the AP Mark 1, which weighed 1600 lbs (726 kg) of which 240 lbs (109 kg) was high explosive. The Mark 1 could penetrate a 5" (13.7cm) deck from 7500' (2900m) or from 4500' (1370m) in a 300 knot 60 degree dive. This bomb was so heavy that only the TBF Avenger or SB2C Helldiver was capable of carrying it, and it was rare for a carrier to have more than 20 Mark 1 bombs in its magazine. Much more widely used was the Mark 33, introduced in October 1942, which weighed 1000 lbs (454kg) of which 150 lbs (68 kg) was high explosive. The Mark 33 could penetrate a 5" deck from 10,000' (3050m) or from 6500' (1980m) when dropped from a dive bomber in a 300 knot 60 degree dive. The Americans estimated that seven penetrating bomb hits would be enough to sink a battleship, while the Japanese estimated that 12 to 16 penetrating hits were required. 

 

 

You will see the details soon enough, but it would be fair to give the USN higher tier DBs AP bombs to even the firepower with the IJN 5 TBs and 3 DBs  Also they should be limited (like in reality), so you will have let's say 3 (x6=18) bombs for the entire battle and you should plan your attack very well, as you will have only 3 squadrons for the entire game to use. it will also change the gameplay a bit, because now no one bothers with DBs, but if they have limited APs the fighters will have to attack them too, because you never know if they are going to sink your friendly BB or they are just loaded with HE bombs

 

 

[Pappus]

I think the reason divebombers are perceived as bad is because to me they seem bugged. Often I will see not a singple explosion, they drop and nothing happens nothing hitting the water, no explosion for 0 damage just nothing.

[Unintentional_submarine]

 

What, no, those are just magazine hits by the dive bombers. I one shot the Benson from high hp with those dive bombers. The other one was on a Cleveland I believe. It's just luck. I just noticed that I dealt a lot of damage with dive bombers twice in like 200 games and screenshotted it. However, I think that the main buff dive bombers need is accuracy. I think them not doing as much damage isn't a big deal but if dive bombers attack a battleship and get 0 hits in I'm pretty sad.

 

Ah... Well torps can oneshot targets. It just looked like you were getting 5k out of each bomb (in more than one game no less), which was impressive.

 

Dive bombers have several advantages over TBs right now. But it is mostly in the region of survival. I believe they are tougher, they are certainly faster, they reload faster too I think. They approach and finish their attacks faster. They get the extra bomber from the Tier 5 skill. And finally they are also more 'deadly' against fighters (I kid you not, my DBs from the Indy got intercepted by two surviving fighters, I lost two DBs and they killed both fighters in return, with no ships underneath mind you).

 

It would be interesting if Dive Bombers could see ships further way. After all most dive bombers also serves as scouts. But really they need to be more of a danger. Right now only DDs need fear them a little. A BB, even if set on fire, will have a look around, if he sees TBs nearby he will hold off on putting the fires out, if no immediate dangers surround him... bombs negated. I have been contemplating using DBs after TBs for a while now. People tend to get very focused on the TBs and will often repair the flooding very fast if they can. That's when the DBs come in and set them on fire. Too bad they don't seem to really set targets on fire all that often.

[Spellfire40]

Dive Bombers are pretty much the only defence you have if a DD breaks thogh and your team dont give a crap about it. They also are a relyable way to reset Caps. Most expiriened BB and CA driver can doge pretty much 80% of Torpedos you cant relyable dodge an Dive Bomber atack. Historical they may have had an greater inpact but wows is an arcade style game not an simulation. If they fullfill their inteded role there is nothing be feel bad about. The major Problem i see at the moment is that when you chose an fighter loadout for carriers your stuck with dive bombers as your only way to deal damage and then it feels not enogh. compared to the damage that a flight of torpedo bombers might do. But that is a problem with the loadouts you can fit not the planes and their inteded role.

 

 

cu

 

Spellfire40

[DtXpwnz]

I wonder how many topics there were about underpowered dive bombers, useless dive bombers or if there will be AP bombs for DB squadrons. I think it is about one topic every 3 days, is it really that hard to look through page 1 of general discussion? Or to use search button?