Upgrading Minekaze's torps - is longer range worth the much lower speed?

[Silu_0]

State your opinion pls. 

[OVanBruce]

Indeed. 10 kms is just what you need for reliable sniping without being discovered even if your torps are slower.

[Fominator]

Faster is better, you need fast torpedoes to hit bad players, the slow ones only hit the terrible players.

[Trojan_001]

Personally I use long range slow speed torps since i want to launch my torps out of detectability range so as to not compromise my concealment. even if they are slow they are mostly effective against BB's who are mostly engaging another ship and are easy target for those torps.

[Aernir]

On the Minekaze? It has such a fast reload that you can just spam away, so I'd say go with the 10km ones. The RoF on those launches are so fast you don't really have to care about missing, since you can just pump out spread after spread from a safe distance.

[Nechrom]

They are simply too slow. You not only give the target way more time to change speed/course while the torpedoes are undetected, but also give him more time to dodge them once they are spotted.

Long range torpedoes are already very much a gamble and even more so if they are also slow.

10km isn't enough range to compensate for the super low speed. 7km is enough given the spotting range of the Minekaze.

Defending against other DDs is also hard enough already with almost useless guns. Using slow torpedoes removes the only other weapon you have against them.

[valkarianism]

Personally, It's a yes and a no depending on your playstyle.

 

If you prefer a longer range engage and more efficiency, and find yourself turning away after firing torpedoes at about 7km and not trying to play with the 5.9km spotting range, then go ahead and upgrade. The longer range will allow you to hit from behind islands easier and, while slower means easier to dodge, the reload rate is simply too low to make that a huge factor, since you're unlikely to have been spotted anyway.

 

If you like brawling with DD, CA and BB for some misogynistic reason, like me, then please take the faster torpedoes. That few seconds where the torpedoes take to travel is crucial when it comes to CA and BB, where a single salvo or secondary fire can result in a DD losing all it's HP or critical modules. Faster torpedoes also help to duel against DDs where hitting a single torpedo can decide the outcome.

 

So, take your pick. 

[Silu_0]

I sold Isokaze with more than 41k average dmg/battle. Seems all right for a tier 4. I bought Minekaze and  I did 70k torp damage with the stock one in the first battle. Then I upgraded her tubes and started to feel rather useless and ineffective, my avg dmg dropped below Isokaze's. That is why I created this topic. So what I have better range if I rarely ever will hit someone from 10km.

 

But if I am to use the stock tubes, isn't it better to go back to Isokaze? It's virtually the same ship with slightly worse guns (which aren't used anyway) but tier lower, rarely meeting long range deadly Cruisers like Cleveland.

[valkarianism]

 

Based on stats alone, you get vastly superior top speeds (meaning chasing those independence and saipans will be less of an issue), faster rudder shift time and slightly less surface detectability. Besides, sinking a fuso counts for more rewards than a tier 5 ship haha. Also, I fear the Omaha anyway, as well as the St Louis. Anything with a high ROF manned by a player with decent skill should be able to deal with a spotted DD quite easily.

 

edit: notice how i totally skipped over the difference in AA. Right. Moving on.

[Captain_Edwards]

Having not played the Minekaze, I cant be 100% sure. However, as a submarine skipper in the Silent Hunter series I have some experience with simulation torpedoes. From my extensive experience in that title, I would always go for the faster torpedo. A large slow target has a near impossible task to evade a high speed torp.

[Nechrom]

...for some misogynistic reason...

 

I don't think that means what you think it means.

[valkarianism]

 

I don't think that means what you think it means.

 

Masochistic! I meant Masochistic! WTF brain hahahahahahahaha 

[CyrusCT]

I have a very different play style being mostly a USN DD player. IMHO I like long range torps and nothing gives me more satisfaction than torping an Yamato from 16 km. it`s true you only get 2-3 hits from 16 km but no one sees you, they only know you are out there stalking them.

I played the IJN DD line , currently I unlocked the t8 one , and I think you have to decide for yourself, I would take the 10 km torps and spam them 24/7 even tho` they are slower and the target has a better chance to avoid them.

from the t7 upwards you don`t find that many monkeys, a lot of BB`s zig-zag all the time so you will get even fewer hits with your torps .

[Pastaiolo]

I always go for range.

[xBamBamx]

It all depends on what the target does and there in lies the luck part.  If you shoot at an enemy that is moving in a straight line then distance is your friend, many times ive fired and target has moved afterwards which is complete waste as its over a minute to reload.  The main guns are pointless most of the time due to range, the strengths are torps.  The faster torps are good for close range however if your close range then ur not using this ship correctly.  Way I play it is fighting several enemy at same time without smoke and keeping them all beyond detection range (keep eye out for planes and know their spotting range and use P key to disable AA as well) and you will get a few kills, aim at BB as DD and CA are always moving around and tbh its not your role to engage with DD or CA in a IJN DD IMO.

[Teaz]

 

Masochistic! I meant Masochistic! WTF brain hahahahahahahaha 

 

Right, Freud might have a thing or two to say about that ;)

 

Anyhow, back on topic; Personally i prefer faster torps, as most targets tend to shift course in the time it takes for (mid tier) long range torpedos to reach the target. Therefore It takes significantly more guesswork to be succesful, than with a well placed short range attack.

 

I found that shorter range isn't really that big a problem, I even prefer the 6.5km on the Benson instead of the 10km torps due to speed. USN destroyers usually gets spotted before the effective torpedo range is reached, but with a bit of planning ahead, you can usually get into a nice position that intercepts the targets course, pop smoke and wait - you will be suprised how many people get within 3km of a mysterious cloud of smoke floating on the water, before the dime drops. All this gets even better on the IJN destroyers due to their superior concealment values.

 

It gets even better when there are sneaky island to hide behind - or icebergs! Of course ambushes should only be attempted when you are confident of an escape, or sinking your target.

 

Anyhow, back to the Minekaze - I didn't have much success in it, but speaking in general, I prefer speed over range. You can plan where to be, you can't will the enemy to sail straight for a minute

[Djerin]

The short ranged torps have 2 advantages. They are obviously faster. But more importantly they have a smaller "signature". While torps with 10km range get spotted at 2km distance the short ranged torps get spotted at only 1 km.

[Silu_0]

The short ranged torps have 2 advantages. They are obviously faster. But more importantly they have a smaller "signature". While torps with 10km range get spotted at 2km distance the short ranged torps get spotted at only 1 km.

How do you know that? 

 

This explains my success with hitting stuff with the stock torps. 1km spotting range + almost 70 knots give hardly any chance to react. 

[Exustio]

Imo, no, lower speed in most cases is not what u want to have. 

 

There is 1 reason why u should consider extending the range of your torpedos for speed, and for that u need to look at your concealment range. 

 

For IJN destroyers to be effective, u want to get as close as possible to gain the best amount of accuracy without being detected. This means u first need to look at your concealment range. In the case of the Minekaze, your concealment range is 5.9km for surface ships, and if you havnt fired your main armament or your AA, you will not be spotted, meaning u can dump your fish and bail out on a target that has no clue torpedos are on their way. 

 

Second, u need to look at the range of your torpedos and their respective speeds. The faster torpedos 68 knots have a range of 7km, meaning that u have a "buffer" zone of 1.1km where u can drop your fish. This zone is more then enough to position, angle, aim, fire and run without getting detected. 

 

This is in my honoust opinion how u should be looking at every single IJN DD. Your strength lies in your concealment and your torpedos (especially dmg) so use them!

 

As a second example, the Mutsuki has a concealment range of 5.9km and his fastest torpedo goes 6km, meaning u have a "buffer" zone of 0.1km which is way to small to precisely dump the fish and not get detected, meanin u should get the longer ranged slow moving torpedos for the T6 mutsuki. 

 

Hope it helps

 

Exustio

[MrDane]

I went for range, it is nice to be able to shadow a battleship and just spam him with torps, if nothing else you take his focus away from shooting your battleships and with three launchers you can really make him work to avoid all of them.

 

I must say that I do not understand the tier system for the japanese destroyers, from tier 5, I feel it is downhill. The Minekaze, is faster, harder to spot and the reload time of the torpedos are a lot faster, then the tier 7 Hatsuharu. Sure the Hatsuharu have a little extra armor, but really if you get spotted that will rarely be your saving grace and yes the torpedos do more damage, but again you have to wait for a lot longer between reloads. 

[Fominator]

I must say that I do not understand the tier system for the japanese destroyers, from tier 5, I feel it is downhill.

 

Nobody does. And yes, Minekaze overperforms all the other ships in her line.

[Djerin]

How do you know that? 

 

This little guide explains the detection ranges during the last 1 or 2 minutes.

[rancidpunk]

I tend to stick to the long range torps on my Minekaze as a lot of my kills in it are enemy destroyers with my guns.

 

I find that spamming a load off in the direction of the first dd I spot  makes him turn so I get the advantage when I switch to guns as my turrets are already aimed at him. I rarely get the DD's with torps but quite often get hits on the cruisers that tend to follow their DD's.  

[YardenM]

 

Nobody does. And yes, Minekaze overperforms all the other ships in her line.

 

I find the Fubuki to be quite enjoyable after the Mutsuki and Hatsuharu who were really crap.

[Silu_0]

For IJN destroyers to be effective, u want to get as close as possible to gain the best amount of accuracy without being detected. This means u first need to look at your concealment range. In the case of the Minekaze, your concealment range is 5.9km for surface ships, and if you havnt fired your main armament or your AA, you will not be spotted, meaning u can dump your fish and bail out on a target that has no clue torpedos are on their way. 

 

Second, u need to look at the range of your torpedos and their respective speeds. The faster torpedos 68 knots have a range of 7km, meaning that u have a "buffer" zone of 1.1km where u can drop your fish. This zone is more then enough to position, angle, aim, fire and run without getting detected. 

Well that's quite obvious I have had exact same thoughts on this Thanks for the input anyway