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Fodder1978

Night fighting?

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Been reading a lot on the ongoing “nerf CVs” conversations, as well as a fun thread about radar.

 

Has anybody considered night fighting for the game before? It could change the dynamic really quite dramatically. Some of the most dramatic actions were in darkness or nighttime, including Guadalcanal, the North Cape, or Matapan. Advantages of range are eliminated as every fight is at closer distances, almost “yardarm to yardarm”.

 

Limited detection ranges due to light levels. Searchlights. Star shells. Flares. Recognition lights. Landing lights, for CVs. Moonlight and cloud cover. Having to stick with your squadron or lose contact. Close quarter brawls and torpedoes. Early radar sets.

 

Any traction, there? I’d be surprised if it’s never been discussed.

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[BODEM]
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I would love to give that a try. Gameplay would be slower, I reckon, but I think it would look spectacular. Would be awesome if WG would give it a try. Don't know if they already done that though.

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[TRID]
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Start of Operation Cherry Blossom is the only thing I know of to have ever tried night mechanics (AI star shells etc)

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Imagine permanent cyclone.

Now realize the ridiculous amount of balancing issues this brings.

Could be fun in lower tiers where there are no gimmicks such as radar I suppose but beyond that I can't imagine it being viable.

 

Operation Cherry Blossom indeed served as sort of a testing ground for night battles. That we haven't heard anything about it since probably means WG has scrapped the idea.

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2 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

Imagine permanent cyclone.

Now realize the ridiculous amount of balancing issues this brings.

Could be fun in lower tiers where there are no gimmicks such as radar I suppose but beyond I can't imagine it being viable.

 

Operation Cherry Blossom indeed served as sort of a testing ground for night battles. That we haven't heard anything about it since probably means WG has scrapped the idea.

 

I Agree. In that Form it would make very little Sense.

A Low Maximum Spotting Limit completely Eradicates alot of the Gameplay surrounding Concealment.

 

But.

There would be a few Potential Methods and Uses to get similar effects and variety to the Game.

 

For example.

A.

You could simply Implement Weather and Daytime to the Game as a Random Variable for each Battle. And then use it to Spice up the Gameplay to make it more Varied.

 

On the Full Daylight Time with Clear Weather Concealment for all Ships could be Reduced by 20%

While on Late Evening with Foggy Weather Concealment could instead be Increased for all Ships by 20%

So on Best Weather during the Day a Kagero with its 5.4km Concealment would already be Detected on 6km while on Late Evening it would come as close as 4.9km before its Detected.

 

The Balancing would Remain largely the same. But it would Create some new Situations. Because on Clear Day Battles the DDs would have to keep more Distance but they would also see other Ships much sooner.

While on Evening with Fog the DD might be harder to Detect. But as the Buff is a Percentage the Distance which he has between Detecting a Cruiser and himself being Detected actually grow smaller. And a BB which Suddenly is Spotted only 12km away instead of 15km away make quite a bit of Difference already :)

 

B.

If you just want more Close Range Battles the common Suggestion would actually to use the Battletypes from Navyfield.

Fast Battle Mode for Battles only containing Cruisers, Destroyers and Submarines thus effectively Creating a new Triangle there. 

And then a Capital Ship mode with only BBs and CVs. 

 

This would possibly affect Balancing more. But that remains to be Tested. And since it would be Seperate Battlemodes it would not be so Importand to Balance it. Ships not Suited for it would simply not be Played in these Modes and Remain in the Modes where they are capable of doing their thing.

 

 

 

 

Therefore I would not Dismiss the Discussion Outright.

There might be something usable coming out of the Ideas in such a Discussion :)

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2 hours ago, Sunleader said:

Therefore I would not Dismiss the Discussion Outright.

There might be something usable coming out of the Ideas in such a Discussion :)

Why are you capitalizing random words? Makes it bloody hard to read. I usually just skip your posts.

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6 hours ago, Fodder1978 said:

Has anybody considered night fighting for the game before?

I think it's not a good idea messing with the light .

environments with murky light like twilight we only could see ships outlines.

and I'm starting to need glasses.

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29 minutes ago, Gebe_ said:

Why are you capitalizing random words? Makes it bloody hard to read. I usually just skip your posts.

 

Then keep skipping lol.

I dont mind.

 

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6 hours ago, Sunleader said:

For example.

A.

You could simply Implement Weather and Daytime to the Game as a Random Variable for each Battle. And then use it to Spice up the Gameplay to make it more Varied.

 

On the Full Daylight Time with Clear Weather Concealment for all Ships could be Reduced by 20%

While on Late Evening with Foggy Weather Concealment could instead be Increased for all Ships by 20%

So on Best Weather during the Day a Kagero with its 5.4km Concealment would already be Detected on 6km while on Late Evening it would come as close as 4.9km before its Detected.

 

 

Clipped your message a bit, but I think this is a VERY GOOD IDEA

 

If they will not give us new maps, then make some alternative game modes. 

I never understood anyway why visibility gets reduced to 8km for all. 

Percentage would be much much better. You'd still see a fat BB much sooner.

Also, DDs would be even harder to spot for a CV. Uh, unless they use the AA, that is.

 

Also, I'd like to see big waves and ships rolling, going up/down etc -  combined with reduced accuracy, smaller ships suffer more.

Torpedoes would be all over the place, mega dispersion. They'd also miss due to becoming deep-water torps, sometimes.

 

Note that we can have fog/mist as well, we've seen it in Halloween missions. Rain? Thunder-lightning?

Also, night worked very well there, too. It's not like they cannot do it. We know they can.

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3 hours ago, Sunleader said:

 

Then keep skipping lol.

I dont mind.

 

I don't mind either. But I'm really curious as to why? If I understood the logic maybe it would start making sense to me. Sorry for derailing the topic.

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6 minutes ago, Gebe_ said:

But I'm really curious as to why?

My theory is he is German and they use a lot of capital letters in the sentence but I forgot why.

Actually treat it as yet another kind of language (dialect?) and you will get used to it ;)

 

On topic: well I believe all this cyclones, ion storms, filth etc. are there to test our reaction? So they wish to make something but it is hard IMHO.

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Vor 5 Stunden, Gebe_ sagte:

Why are you capitalizing random words? Makes it bloody hard to read. I usually just skip your posts.

He's German. We capitalize a lot of words, especially all nouns. So for example 'discussion' (Diskussion in German) will be capitalized, hence why he did so. I've fallen victim to that a lot, but the other way around. I write and read a LOT of English IRL, so my capitalization in German has taken a hit :Smile_veryhappy: It can be hard to get right at times, especially if your phone is set up for both languages and randomly tries to correct it.

 

BTT: I'd LOVE night battles especially if ships had to be identified as friend or foe, so you'd have to keep track of where your fleet is to know whether to shoot at a target or flash ident and risk getting pummeled. However I don't know if it would fit the arcadey WoWS playstyle...

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35 minutes ago, FerrowTheFox said:

BTT: I'd LOVE night battles especially if ships had to be identified as friend or foe, so you'd have to keep track of where your fleet is to know whether to shoot at a target or flash ident and risk getting pummeled. However I don't know if it would fit the arcadey WoWS playstyle...

I'd actually would want to have that (along with limited ammo/planes) in day battles as well. Perhaps with a slightly smaller teamkill penalties though :Smile_sceptic:

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Well, I don't think night battle are a good idea...

First thing first, most players have terrible aim, now add limited visibility because brightness is lower, so it's harder to tell ship direction, speed and everything, because you'll have even less thing to guess the speed. 
Instead I would rather have better weather effect, like bigger waves, or very heavy rain that doesn't necessarily impact gameplay, but that just look nicer, and make the sea in WoWs a bit more immersive, without making it invasive when it come to gameplay.

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16 minutes ago, StalkerSoC said:

Well, I don't think night battle are a good idea...

First thing first, most players have terrible aim, now add limited visibility because brightness is lower, so it's harder to tell ship direction, speed and everything, because you'll have even less thing to guess the speed. 
Instead I would rather have better weather effect, like bigger waves, or very heavy rain that doesn't necessarily impact gameplay, but that just look nicer, and make the sea in WoWs a bit more immersive, without making it invasive when it come to gameplay.

The bad aim/low hit percentage would offset the low visibility and engagement ranges.

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Vor 1 Stunde, mein_nick_ist_besetzt sagte:

I'd actually would want to have that (along with limited ammo/planes) in day battles as well. Perhaps with a slightly smaller teamkill penalties though

I'd love to try a "hardcore" mode like some world war shooters have. Historic fleet compositions (USN vs IJN, RN vs. KM, etc.), no automatic IFF (so visual ship identification would be a thing), limited ammo with horrible dispersion over distance (but hits a lot harder if it hits), flooding not only reduces HP but actually slows the ship down significantly, etc.

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1 minute ago, FerrowTheFox said:

I'd love to try a "hardcore" mode like some world war shooters have. Historic fleet compositions (USN vs IJN, RN vs. KM, etc.), no automatic IFF (so visual ship identification would be a thing), limited ammo with horrible dispersion over distance (but hits a lot harder if it hits), flooding not only reduces HP but actually slows the ship down significantly, etc.

Nah, historic fleet composition would be easy - pretty and green are IJN, the hideous are RN battleships... :Smile_trollface:

Keep it as it is, remove the friend-foe labels, and add a cargo ship in the back with ammo, so that Shima is not totally useless for the second half of the match.

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Gerade eben, mein_nick_ist_besetzt sagte:

Keep it as it is, remove the friend-foe labels, and add a cargo ship in the back with ammo, so that Shima is not totally useless for the second half of the match.

I like the idea of ammo-supply and maybe even repair vessels (vestal, akashi etc. in the back, doubling as "base") like in ops, but I think a limited torpedo loadout could work as well. Have them totally wreck ships (a late war torp cpuld just split a cruiser in half and BBs would be severely crippled and flooding) but if they're gone you have to play more passive. Maybe could work, just throwing it out there.

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Since i played steel ocean for some time: 

 

They had a night battle mode where ships had to use flares for temporary Vision. Ppl didnt like it at all and therefore avoided that queue. I doubt that it will be any different here. 

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5 hours ago, FerrowTheFox said:

He's German. We capitalize a lot of words, especially all nouns. So for example 'discussion' (Diskussion in German) will be capitalized, hence why he did so. I've fallen victim to that a lot, but the other way around. I write and read a LOT of English IRL, so my capitalization in German has taken a hit :Smile_veryhappy: It can be hard to get right at times, especially if your phone is set up for both languages and randomly tries to correct it.

 

BTT: I'd LOVE night battles especially if ships had to be identified as friend or foe, so you'd have to keep track of where your fleet is to know whether to shoot at a target or flash ident and risk getting pummeled. However I don't know if it would fit the arcadey WoWS playstyle...

More like that old Fighting Steel game, true.

 

But imagine the total furball it could cause. Suddenly finding that the squadron you’re sailing in line with has just gotten within 6 clicks of the opposing force, and the searchlights suddenly get lit all over you.

 

Most players would promptly cack themselves and swing out of line ;)

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3 hours ago, mein_nick_ist_besetzt said:

Nah, historic fleet composition would be easy - pretty and green are IJN, the hideous are RN battleships... :Smile_trollface:

Keep it as it is, remove the friend-foe labels, and add a cargo ship in the back with ammo, so that Shima is not totally useless for the second half of the match.

Lol next release would be the Rawalpindi, then... “Come on, if you think you’re hard enough!” With an AMC vs a Battlecruiser...

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Night fighting in operation Cherry Blossom was fun, but I doubt it would translate well into random battles, the importance of spotting and radar would cause a lot of problems 

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It would also allow WG to flog flashless gold ammo. 

 

I think it would be a disaster, based on how people play in cyclones. I also hate how I seem to get one in every second New Orleans game I play, which is just what you want in a cruiser without radar, hydro, smoke or torpedoes. 

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6 hours ago, Gebe_ said:

I don't mind either. But I'm really curious as to why? If I understood the logic maybe it would start making sense to me. Sorry for derailing the topic.

 

Pretty much what these two said.

 

6 hours ago, Sir_Grzegorz said:

My theory is he is German and they use a lot of capital letters in the sentence but I forgot why.

Actually treat it as yet another kind of language (dialect?) and you will get used to it ;)

 

On topic: well I believe all this cyclones, ion storms, filth etc. are there to test our reaction? So they wish to make something but it is hard IMHO.

 

5 hours ago, FerrowTheFox said:

He's German. We capitalize a lot of words, especially all nouns. So for example 'discussion' (Diskussion in German) will be capitalized, hence why he did so. I've fallen victim to that a lot, but the other way around. I write and read a LOT of English IRL, so my capitalization in German has taken a hit :Smile_veryhappy: It can be hard to get right at times, especially if your phone is set up for both languages and randomly tries to correct it.

 

BTT: I'd LOVE night battles especially if ships had to be identified as friend or foe, so you'd have to keep track of where your fleet is to know whether to shoot at a target or flash ident and risk getting pummeled. However I don't know if it would fit the arcadey WoWS playstyle...

 

In German you use Capital Letters for each and every Noun. That includes Words which become a Noun due to being used as that in a Sentence.

Add to that the Fact that English is not my First Language. And that thus the Grammar of English is not always matching up with the Grammar of my Native German Language. Thanks to which I often also Capitalize Words which I at this Point think of as Noun even if they arent actually One in that Case or Form.

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