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wienerkorv

Make AA great again

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Srsly give use back usable AA, especially for DDs

When even the "strongest AA ship in the game"(like the worc game i just played) cant nuke down a CV strike somethig is srsly wrong with your game wg.

Eighther make the CV loose hp as her planes loose hp or give us back AA that actually does anything. All the AA percs (and modules) arent worth getting  right now, even when you div up with a cv and have a ship that can spare some of its 19 points like mino.

there are 3 options.

- rollback to the 0.7.9 AA perks, modules, and consumable (+range for 2nd slot mod. and aft, left lick a squat to melt it with long range AA if you have man. AA); imo the best way to go about it; def.AA makes the drop scatter, but has a longer cooldown so the CV has to play around it, but can actually play around it, which intourduces counterplay for both sides, of which there is none at the moment, other that sailing around in a 12 man blop

- give back the mid range aura flak and the +100%(CA)/+200%(DD) def.AA

- remove rocket planes from the game and add ap/he bombers to every CV  aka switch the loadeout to torp, HE DB, AP DB (enables the "just dodge") and take away 20-40% off all the plane HP

also remove all deck armor from CVs, if they are gonna play like glass cannons at least make them vulnerable to getting spotted and counter fired, BB + CA AP  + CL HE should never bounce/shatter of a CV

Also concider adding a spotting delay to things spotted by planes similar to things spotted by radar.

 

 

20191116_232153_PASC210-Worcester_16_OC_bees_to_honey.wowsreplay

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  • Most DD never had strong AA
  • Strong AA DD, still have strong AA
  • AA is not supposed to nuke down whole squads, for that the planes got their damage per attack reduced
  • the scatter function is missed by many, as it encourages teamplay
  • for the left click we got the zone focus
  • rocket planes are a good addition as they give options and encourage skillful play
  • CV had deck armor, no need to make this a-historical,as CV are mostly toast when getting under direct fire anyway...
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17 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:
  • Most DD never had strong AA - true, but some did, and they deseve to still have that going for them, AA needs to be a distinguishing factor between ships, and not just universally bad
  • Strong AA DD, still have strong AA - nope even the DDs with the stongest AA (groz, Z52, Gearing) can't shoot down crap atm
  • AA is not supposed to nuke down whole squads, for that the planes got their damage per attack reduced - ofc it does, the 1st atack is all you are going to get of in the 1st  10min of the game anyway (unless someone screws up massively)
  • the scatter function is missed by many, as it encourages teamplay i know, thats why i want it back
  • for the left click we got the zone focus - zone is useless as it does not let you decide what to shoot at if there is more than 1 CV atacking you/CV spawned a fighter/choose between returing and atacking planes
  • rocket planes are a good addition as they give options and encourage skillful play - a skillful CV player can hit DDs with TBs/DBs same as a skillfull DD driver will never get hit by TBs, rockets are just a way to give bad players a way to hit stuff for a little bit even if they can't aim for crap, somewhat like BB 2ndaries
  • CV had deck armor, no need to make this a-historical,as CV are mostly toast when getting under direct fire anyway... there were exactly 3 CVs with deck armor in the game before, Taiho, Haku, and Midway

 

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Chung Mu has far from strong AA, but even she gets stuff done:

55823_948_1563213775.jpg

Other DD get better results.

  • No idea what you mean with only one attack in 10 minutes :cap_yes:
  • Zone focus lets you choose the zone, all squads in the zone are affected, I do not see your problem
  • Bad players still miss and bad players can use rocket planes for the wrong ships
  • Are their any CV with deck armor that should not have deck armor? As far as I know, they are all as they should be.
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chung mu used to be my fav. t9 untill wg nerfed the crap out of her, no i almost never play chink/korean DDs, whats the point if fletcher/gearing are a thing (other than memeing around in a div)

28 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:
  • No idea what you mean with only one attack in 10 minutes :cap_yes:- it means unless someone screws up their positioning (or just spawnes in a realy bad position and has their teammates at that spawn suicide) you are not gitting more than 1 drop of at the same target per squat
  • Zone focus lets you choose the zone, all squads in the zone are affected, I do not see your problem - the problem is +35% when there used to be + 135%
  • Bad players still miss and bad players can use rocket planes for the wrong ships - true, but the problem is that it reduces the skillgap too much, since its allows green pr pleabs to hit purple pr players if they are determined enough, it will not make them winning the game any easier, but it will make sure that neigther of those players will have a good game
  • Are their any CV with deck armor that should not have deck armor? As far as I know, they are all as they should be. - it just feels like CVs are able to defend themselves too much nowerdays with the fire nerfs and so on, so eigther make them fires (which prevent you from launching planes, remember) last the full 30/45/60s (which would be a bad idea with auto consumables) , or just nerf the armor to make it melt faster

 

 

 

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Do yourselve a favor and play a cv line. 

Not for 1 or 2 games. A complete line including tier10. 

 

Maybe you wohnt be so annoyed any more. 

 

In the enemy is making it right, the cv will lose the hole squadron for 2k damage. 

 

If you the enemy goes solo hes Toast. 

 

Its a Team game, solo warriors are easy prey for cv.

 

No ship should be untouchable by any kind of ship, including CVs.

 

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2 hours ago, wienerkorv said:

chung mu used to be my fav. t9 untill wg nerfed the crap out of her, no i almost never play chink/korean DDs, whats the point if fletcher/gearing are a thing (other than memeing around in a div)

:fish_palm:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chink

 

  • CV can and will get more than one drop per squad on incompetent players, when you are able to limit all enemy CV to one drop on you, I have no idea what you are complaining about
  • It was never +135%...
  • Where is the problem damaging purple PR players? Works with any other class too. When you are a real purple PR player and not just a damage farmer with bad winrating, you should be able to mitigate that damage EASILY
  • All CV are easy prey as soon as they are spotted by ship, when you have trouble, either you face a rare competent CV or you are doing it wrong

 

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12 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

CV can and will get more than one drop per squad on incompetent players, when you are able to limit all enemy CV to one drop on you, I have no idea what you are complaining about

because that drop will still take 15-30%of your HP away if you are in a DD, and most DDs can't heal that away. The problem is that that 1st drop will always get through, even if you are hiding next to a "AA CL".

  • It was never +135%... iirc it was 135% for long range with man. AA
  • Where is the problem damaging purple PR players? Works with any other class too. When you are a real purple PR player and not just a damage farmer with bad winrating, you should be able to mitigate that damage EASILY - the problem is that it's way too easy for the CV to focus and prevent both that player and himself from having a decent game. much like XVM clickers in WoT, and you can't do that with any other class in the game since they do not get to choose where they are at the beginning, can't relocate as quickly, and get punished for overextending way harder.
  • All CV are easy prey as soon as they are spotted by ship, when you have trouble, either you face a rare competent CV or you are doing it wrong - wrong any ship with smalish calliber main guns can't do crap at longish range to an armored CV, which is running away. Because 5s fire duration is a joke.

 

12 hours ago, SaintGordon said:

Do yourselve a favor and play a cv line. 

Not for 1 or 2 games. A complete line including tier10. 

Maybe you wohnt be so annoyed any more. 

I do have the Audacious for whenever WG decides to put out CV only Directives, and don't even get me started on what i can do in a T4 CV.

 

 

In the enemy is making it right, the cv will lose the hole squadron for 2k damage.  More like 2/3-1/2 of the squad with predrops and slingshot beeing a thing.

 

If you the enemy goes solo hes Toast. 

Soloing BBs don't get punished enough by CVs right now TBs should have 20-50% more alpha dmg

 

Its a Team game, solo warriors are easy prey for cv.

 

No ship should be untouchable by any kind of ship, including CVs. Things like Asashio exist, BBs can't touch it, but the ounly thing you can do to say a Moskva is that spamming F3 will eventually do dmg. So why shoulden't there be ships in the game that a CV can't touch and can be used to protect you team from said threat, like the Mino used to be, but gets blown out of the water as soon as any 240mm+ AP shell lands in the same post code. Different ships need to have different strengths, that is why AA percs, modules and consumables need to scale with each other, to make it possible to have ships with truely great AA. At the same time there also need to be ships that have truely bad AA which are in need of an AA escort.

That is why AA can't just be universally meh.

 

 

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  • when you lose 30% in a DD in one drop, you were doing it wrong, I suggest to be in a different position should he decide to come back
  • Yes, 130% Bonus with manual AA at long range, but not globally
  • when you are purple and get locked down by an average player, you are not a real unicum
  • other people do not have that problem

 

 

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where else would i be at the start of the map other than with the team, where all of the AA is, it has nothing to do with positioning (kinda, as beein anywhere else would make the CV able to get a 2nd and maybe a 3rd drop off),  just with rocket planes beeing stupid.

there is just too little counterplay possible against planes right now, while there is counterplay to AA, which is why the current system which heavily relies on flak is stupid, and needs eigher a rework which allowes for manual targeting, or a replacement. And no, the current "press O" doesn't count as it is way to low skill low reward.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, ColonelPete said:
  • other people do not have that problem

maybe 1 or to 2 people don't, but from all the raging in all chat you can clearly see that most do, i suggest turning it on

 

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7 minutes ago, wienerkorv said:

maybe 1 or to 2 people don't, but from all the raging in all chat you can clearly see that most do, i suggest turning it on

I rarely read anyone raging in my chat, especially when the enemy CV is in the crosshairs. Usually the match is won at that time and the enemy team overrun.

 

10 minutes ago, wienerkorv said:

where else would i be at the start of the map other than with the team, where all of the AA is, it has nothing to do with positioning (kinda, as beein anywhere else would make the CV able to get a 2nd and maybe a 3rd drop off),  just with rocket planes beeing stupid.

there is just too little counterplay possible against planes right now, while there is counterplay to AA, which is why the current system which heavily relies on flak is stupid, and needs eigher a rework which allowes for manual targeting, or a replacement. And no, the current "press O" doesn't count as it is way to low skill low reward.

  • you go for a different position and do not wait for the planes to spot you, as I said: evasion works, 100m can make a difference
  • if there is no counterplay, why do that many players still do fine in CV games? Maybe you should listen to them and not give up from the start

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I never said i do badly in CV games, the current state of them just meanst its a very annoying experience for everyone involved, beause as a surface ship your only reward for beeing good is not getting killed, rather than beeing able beeing able to nuke a strike before the CV is able to drop you or a teammate, or dodging a crossdrop and taking no dmg, all of which was very rewarding and fun. Now no matter what you do you, or that teammate in the derpitz next to you is always going to take some dmg, it might not be as much as when you screwd up  before, but it's annoying, and doesnt reward good play as much as it should be.

And the same goes for playing CV, you can't protect your teammates by strafing the enemy CV and the spawnable fighter is an absolute meme, you can't flood a BB, force him to DCP and then set 3 fires with your DBs, and while you can force a well played DD to have a crap game, you can't punish a bad one by instant deleting him, ang no matter who you go after you most likely are loosing planes on the way out, which obviously isn't fun for you, but doesn't help the guy you just dropped.

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Despite not doing badly, you want stronger AA?

You want to be untouchable by planes?

CV players are players too. They are allowed to have fun and not see their planes melt in the AA of other player even when playing well.

And skill is when you take only one strike, worse players take two or even three strikes. THAT is the difference of skillful play.

 

And yes, CV players can still force DCP. Get a flooding and then wait for his DCP or watch him flood...

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I want a fully AA speced AA CL to be untouchable by planes, there needs to be a difference between a ship that was litterally designed to protect against aircraft like Atlanta and a ship which has the most useless AA gun ever built, like anything with IJN 25mms. Because right now there isn't.

Any CV player that continues a strike when deff.AA is on instead of turning out and going for something else/comming back 30s later  deserves to have all his planes shredded. thats why i want deff. AA that is actually usefull instead of giving +50%dps, but has a longer cool down. A CV player should have to play around ships with good AA, and not the other way around (like the deff.AA thing i just said and only going for a strike on AA ships later in the game once they have been HE spammed)

1 hour ago, ColonelPete said:

And skill is when you take only one strike, worse players take two or even three strikes. THAT is the difference of skillful play. 

 

 

that's exactly what's wrong with the current system, the difference needs to be between not getting hit at all and getting farmed to death

 

And no, i do not want stronger AA i generall, i want there to be ships with truely great AA that can protect those around them, and i want ships with 100% useless AA that don't stand a chance against planes., that is why the AA percs, modules, and def.AA need to be reverted to give %bonuses that scale with each other, instead of giving flat bonuses like the 3rd slot AA mod, man.AA, and pressing "O"

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And being untouchable is bad game design.

Imagine playing CV and the whole enemy fleet consists of these ships.

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11 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

And being untouchable is bad game design.

Imagine playing CV and the whole enemy fleet consists of these ships.

Imagine playing DD and having 4 Moskvas on the enemy team.

Imagine getting screwed by rng.

Imagine playing DM and getting ocean.

Imagine playing a mid tier US BB and having your team roflstomp the enemy before you even get into the range of anything.

 

No,  everything be the same is bad game design.

There are already ships that get hardcounterd by other ones in the game and i don't see the point in CVs beeing the only class that doesn't get screwed by mm/rng every now and then.

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52 minutes ago, wienerkorv said:

Imagine playing DD and having 4 Moskvas on the enemy team.

Imagine getting screwed by rng.

Imagine playing DM and getting ocean.

Imagine playing a mid tier US BB and having your team roflstomp the enemy before you even get into the range of anything.

 

No,  everything be the same is bad game design.

There are already ships that get hardcounterd by other ones in the game and i don't see the point in CVs beeing the only class that doesn't get screwed by mm/rng every now and then.

  • I am playing a Gearing in Clan Battles, I face that, and well coodinated, multiple times per week, I can still do my job
  • happens all the time, you can still do something
  • been there, done that, you can still do something
  • been there, done that, you can still do something

There is a difference between a challenging situation, where you can still do something, and a situation where you can do nothing.

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34 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:
  • I am playing a Gearing in Clan Battles, I face that, and well coodinated, multiple times per week, I can still do my job
  • happens all the time, you can still do something
  • been there, done that, you can still do something
  • been there, done that, you can still do something

There is a difference between a challenging situation, where you can still do something, and a situation where you can do nothing.

playing CV into multiple AA ships is no different, you still can do your job, you just have to play more carefully. same as with the other scenarios

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9 minutes ago, wienerkorv said:

playing CV into multiple AA ships is no different, you still can do your job, you just have to play more carefully. same as with the other scenarios

Not when the whole enemy team consists of them or they can give 100% fool-proof cover as you demanded.

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On 11/17/2019 at 1:02 AM, ColonelPete said:

Chung Mu has far from strong AA, but even she gets stuff done

 

It'd be a lot more meaningful if you were to show us the detailed screen. If it turns out those were all fighters then your point is kinda moot.

Just saying.

 

Regardless if a CV loses an excessive amount of strike planes to a DD nowadays that's not DD AA being strong, that's the CV being incompetent.

Aside from Friesland (which has T7-8 AA) all DD AA is comparable to T6 AA (Kidd, Gearing) or below.

 

On 11/17/2019 at 12:35 AM, ColonelPete said:

rocket planes are a good addition as they give options and encourage skillful play

 

JRMaWJv.jpg

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On 11/17/2019 at 1:35 AM, ColonelPete said:

rocket planes are a good addition as they give options and encourage skillful play

 

giphy.gif

 

 

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1 hour ago, ColonelPete said:

Not when the whole enemy team consists of them or they can give 100% fool-proof cover as you demanded.

If you force them to stick together to provide cover then you are doing your job. Also i never said i want fool-proof AA, i want the CV having to play around AA.

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1 hour ago, wienerkorv said:

If you force them to stick together to provide cover then you are doing your job. Also i never said i want fool-proof AA, i want the CV having to play around AA.

Sounded like it. But it does not matter, WG will not change it.

 

2 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

...

 

2 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

...

I see. You then seem to think prefering rocket planes to go after BB or strong AA ships is skillful play?

Or maybe, just maybe the CV player should know which plane type is good against what ship?

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26 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

I see. You then seem to think prefering rocket planes to go after BB or strong AA ships is skillful play?

Or maybe, just maybe the CV player should know which plane type is good against what ship?

 

It's certainly not as bad as an idea as you make it out to be funnily enough.

 

So, what happened to the detailed screen?

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