Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
You need to play a total of 50 battles to post in this section.
HussarKaz

Let's talk about Pan-Europe wide tech tree possibilities

76 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Players
312 posts
914 battles

I tried to design (just for fun) the possible Pan-European tech tree. I was considering only historical ships (no fantasy ships or blueprint ships). I found it very interesting and I would like to open a debate regarding future of Pan-Europe nation in WoWs. Pan-Europe has huge potential regarding

 

image.thumb.png.2a1b6d462ff1591fb5f64c81a793d702.png

 

I must admit that destroyer line is fairly simple to complete. The cruiser line is much more difficult to balance and it may need many changes. The battleship line is impossible to complete and the only thing I could offer is a few premium battleships at low tiers.

 

Warning: please note that this is only a PROPOSITION to discuss, so please don't waste your time writing childish butthurt messages like: "HURR DURR WHAT AN IDIOT DESIGNED THIS LOOOL". Let's discuss in a constructive way and remember that devs may do A LOT by simple balancing soft stats.

 

The destroyer line starts with a Norwegian destroyer Draug at Tier 2, a typical DD of her era: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draug-class_destroyer.

image.png.dc3b45bfec8cb07674eb45389c99b39d.png

 

At tier 2 I also see - as a premium ship - the famous Bulgarian torpedo ship Drazki, which is now a museum ship in Varna. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgarian_torpedo_boat_Drazki

image.png.cf23534a9e8002e985e465a9793e9ae7.png

 

Tier 3 in my concept is occupied by a beaufiful Swedish destroyer Ehrenskold built in 1920s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehrensköld-class_destroyer

image.png.d438681343aca6c1e53671cdd6ae097d.png

 

At tier 4 I can see two Polish ships: ORP Burza https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORP_Burza as a tech tree craft and ORP Wicher https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORP_Wicher_(1928) as a premium ship. They were both Wicher-class destroyers, a heavily modified L'androit-class french DDs.

 

Burza historically had beed rebuilt 3 times, so she may have 3 hull options, each offering different playstyle. A regular DD (hull 1930, armed with 4x130 mm guns and 6 torpedo tubes), an escort DD (hull 1942, with improved anti-sub capabilities) and an anti-aircraft DD (hull 1951 - no torpedo tubes, 4 dual-puropse guns and heavy AA armanent)

image.thumb.png.1ec8a2ca632bd4ff6c3a559d1fecdb59.png

 

Wicher should appear in 1939 configuration, which second mast removed and upgraded AA - in this configuration she defended Polish coast in 1939, including the famous artillery duel with german destroyers, including Maas (German T7 DD), won by Polish ships in spite of the fact they were stuck in the port. Her armanent is similiar to Bourrasque, but she should have better concealment and engine boost replaced with other consumable (i.e. smoke) because historically, the Wicher would have no chance to use speed that high - the captain avoided using maximum speed, because above 28 knots Wicher suffered from constant engine failures.

image.thumb.png.9f711c042474c171c3d5280a76ffdae2.png

 

 

At tier 5 we can see the Regele Ferdinand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regele_Ferdinand-class_destroyer

The RF class destroyers were the most powerful crafts of Romanian Navy during WW2. Small and agile, but powerfully armed - 5x120 mm guns, 6 torpedo tubes

image.png.3db3207e67e51d2e8f01a177c512011d.png

 

At tier 6 there is a perfect candidate which is the Greek destroyer Vasilefs Georgios https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_destroyer_Vasilefs_Georgios known for her role at Greek-Italian war 1940-1941. After she went down in 1941, she was repaired by Germans and used by Kriegsmarine. Armanent: 4x127mm guns and 8 torpedo tubes (4x2)

image.png.40f5ab376a26d2eafd5279b4c1a7286c.png

 

Tier 6 premium ship would be the famous Dubrovnik https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslav_destroyer_Dubrovnik

The biggest ship of the navy of Yugoslavia, she was known by her unique main armanent for a destroyer - huge 140 mm Skoda guns.

image.png.d9aeac3c8d87c49b7e323175460e4ad3.png

 

The Gerard Callenburgh-class is a proposition for Tier 7 DD. The most modern Dutch destroyers at the opening years of WW2. Armanent: 5x120 mm guns, 8 torpedo tubes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerard_Callenburgh-class_destroyer

image.png.90d686af1445caec3edfb6f0e6660d0d.png

 

At Tier 8 we can see Polish Grom-class destroyer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grom-class_destroyer

Stock hull (A) would be 1937 configuration we already can see in game as Blyskawica. Hull B would be 1943 configuration with 8x102 dual-purpose guns and 6 torpedo tubes.

image.thumb.png.50390f63362fff0210910fd596e11cc7.png

 

The perfect candidate for Tier 9 DD is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holland-class_destroyer

A series of 4 ships made for Dutch navy in 1950s, with very similiar configuration to Friesland - 4xBofors quick-firing 120 mm guns and no torpedo armanent.

image.thumb.png.dd887f5bb2878c7b2f9b0bea7142db6b.png

 

The line ends with Tier 10 Swedish destroyer Oland. She has artillery armanent similiar to previous tier, but she also has torpedo tubes which make her more versatile. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Öland-class_destroyer

image.png.fb24125d7b2333a12fb1c768d9dbb5aa.png

 

Cruiser line is filled with mostly light cruisers.

 

Tier 1 perfect candidate is a Polish minelayer and school ship ORP Grom, known for her role in the defense of Polish coast in 1939. Victorious against german DDs, she was sunk 3.09.1939 by Ju-87 dive bombing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORP_Gryf_(1936)

She was the only ship of her type.

image.thumb.png.1e198eaf786641219bebacd29dabc76e.png

 

Tier 2 and 3 tech tree ships are: spanish ship Reina Regente, a typical protected cruiser built in the first years of 20th century  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_cruiser_Reina_Regente_(1906)

image.png.71626807cea970a3b914bd774a7bf1af.png

and Novara, a scout light cruiser known for her role in the Battle of the Strait of Otranto - typical ships for these tiers.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novara-class_cruiser

image.png.edcf548a00809527073f34eb84e0f811.png

 

At tier 2 there is also a place for legendary Greek cruiser Georgios Averof, a protected cruiser which was a Hellenic Navy flagship and serves until today as a museum ship. Georgios Averof will be in fact somewhat more agile and maneuverable version of Mikasa. Her main battery will have only 4 powerful barrels, but they should be more accurate and have better rate of fire than Mikasa due to gun size (234 mm vs 305 mm). I guess it will make gameplay of Georgios Averof more fun than Mikasa.

image.png.a9ba3618933e7776e18601f8e556b727.png

 

Tier 4 brings us a famous Dutch cruiser Java. Her artillery is good for Tier 4 (10 x 149 mm) but she lacks torpedoes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java-class_cruiser

image.png.246ada2bdb0157649c4ebc18f3aaefe9.png

 

On tier 5 we may find another Dutch ship, the Tromp-class light cruiser. Due to the fact that one of Tromp-class cruisers, Jacob van Heemskerck, was modified into an anti-aircraft cruiser, in-game Tromp should have an access to this configuration. Hull B will have torpedo launchers removed in accordance with historical configuration, and will have a possibility to equip 10x102 mm dual-purpose guns instead of 6x 152 mm Bofors guns. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tromp-class_cruiser

image.png.b72b18e5b886fc3ca975987ca9be37c8.png

 

The premium ship at this tier may be the famous De Ruyter, a quick and agile light cruiser with weak main battery, but with many advantages: good manueverability and catapult. A fighter aircraft consumable would be available. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HNLMS_De_Ruyter_(1935)

image.png.4a425bd9b76a6baa8a3fc6c226372571.png

 

 

Tier 6 and 7 is occupied by Spanish light cruisers with murderous torpedo armanent: Méndez Núñez (at stock: poor main battery but with 12 torpedo tubes, at top only 6 torpedo tubes but with massively upgraded main battery containing 8x120 mm dual-purpose guns, according to historical 1944 modification)

image.png.19e1b9c68de2c674b63755a0bea8802c.png

 

 

and Almirante Cervera, a very quick (35 knots) and manueverable light cruiser armed with 8x152 mm guns and 12 torpedo tubes, known for her role at Spanish civil war.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_cruiser_Almirante_Cervera

image.png.4e903f51e57bfff3b170d6e972202e9b.png

 

On Tier 8 we can find the only heavy cruiser in line - Spanish ship Canarias, armed with 8x203 mm main battery and 12 torpedo tubes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_cruiser_Canarias

image.thumb.png.af98a232f397e0e857cd3ceb52c8e331.png

 

I must admit that tier 9 and 10 is a BIG problem in this line. I would like to see there modern post-war cruisers: De Zeven Provinciën and Tre Kronor, but I am afraid they would be significantly weaker than other cruisers at these tiers. In the other hand, they are too modern to be put at tier 7 or below. They should have radar and Defensive AA consumable.

 

BB line is impossible to complete. We can only consider a few premium ships.

 

Please feel invited to a discussion about the abovementioned idea. Please also feel free to show your propositions.

 

 

  • Cool 18

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
2,725 posts
17,150 battles
34 minutes ago, HussarKaz said:

I must admit that destroyer line is fairly simple to complete

 

WG prefer consistency over history, for example you could do a good 120mm Bofors DD line without too much hassle. Keep 102mm DDs as premiums (Isaac Sweers, Blys etc)

 

Tier 5: Van Ghent. 4 x 120mm Bofors with 6 torpedoes.

Tier 6: Regele Ferdinand. 5 x 120mm Bofors with 6 torpedoes.

Tier 7: Gerard Callenburgh. 5 x DP 120mm Bofors with 8 torpedoes.

Tier 8: Grom. 7 x DP 120mm Bofors and 8 torpedoes (Improved Grom-class with fictional updates)

Tier 9-10: Any of the 120mm Bofors DDs/Frigates from Sweden, Holland etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
312 posts
914 battles
2 hours ago, creamgravy said:

 

WG prefer consistency over history, for example you could do a good 120mm Bofors DD line without too much hassle. Keep 102mm DDs as premiums (Isaac Sweers, Blys etc)

 

Tier 5: Van Ghent. 4 x 120mm Bofors with 6 torpedoes.

Tier 6: Regele Ferdinand. 5 x 120mm Bofors with 6 torpedoes.

Tier 7: Gerard Callenburgh. 5 x DP 120mm Bofors with 8 torpedoes.

Tier 8: Grom. 7 x DP 120mm Bofors and 8 torpedoes (Improved Grom-class with fictional updates)

Tier 9-10: Any of the 120mm Bofors DDs/Frigates from Sweden, Holland etc.

To be honest, I am afraid that Grom with Bofors guns from Błyska may be too weak for Tier 8. But anyway it's an interesting idea

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[-TPF-]
Players
3,502 posts
14,514 battles

We have covered this area before and it looked like Oland was an ideal fill in for Tier VIII in a Northern European line. She's quite like Ognevoi. 

 

Edit: Found the previous thread. 

 

We agree on quite a lot of things to be honest!  I would swing a Northern Europe line this way:

 

II -      Sleipner (N), small torpedo boat famous for her resistance against the Nazi Invasion of Norway. 

III -     Klas Horn (SV) - very similar to the Ehrenskold class but over the 1,000 ton displacement mark. Fast with triple torpedo tubes.

IV -     Goteborg (SV) - 1930s design, small, fast - 40kt - slightly undergunned but powerful torpedoes

V -      Van Ghent/Admiraelen Class (NL) . Very much like the British A class destroyer, but with superior guns. The entire class was sunk during WW2

or

V -      Burza (PL) - Wicher class destroyer upgraded with Blyskawica guns and Torpedoes

or

V -    Alesund (N) - the first modern (1930s) Norwegian Destroyer, captured unfinished after the invasion of Norway

VI -   Visby (SV) - continuing the trend of small, fast, Swedish destroyers. Resembles the Soviet Gnevny class

VII -  Gerard Callenburgh (NL). Original five gun design, otherwise similar to T-61

VIII - Oland Class (SV) - 2x2 gun layout, similar to Ognevoi. Good concealment, strong AA, radar.

IX -   Ostergotland Class (SV) 

X -    Utrecht (NL) - Friesland, with torpedoes.

 

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
312 posts
914 battles
2 hours ago, invicta2012 said:

V -      Burza (PL) - Wicher class destroyer upgraded with Blyskawica guns and Torpedoes

Unfortunately Burza never had Blyska guns, neither 120 mm bofors nor 102 mm British dual-purpose guns.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
3,342 posts
7 minutes ago, HussarKaz said:

Unfortunately Burza never had Blyska guns, neither 120 mm bofors nor 102 mm British dual-purpose guns.

 

Since when has that been any problem for WG... :Smile_hiding:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
312 posts
914 battles
Just now, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

 

Since when has that been any problem for WG... :Smile_hiding:

Of course it won't be a problem - but Burza with Blyska guns is not Burza anymore.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
3,342 posts
Just now, HussarKaz said:

Of course it won't be a problem - but Burza with Blyska guns is not Burza anymore.

 

Then what would you call the Bayern with B hull?...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[-TPF-]
Players
3,502 posts
14,514 battles
15 minutes ago, HussarKaz said:

Unfortunately Burza never had Blyska guns, neither 120 mm bofors nor 102 mm British dual-purpose guns.

There were (confirmed) plans to re-arm them with Blyska guns. War broke out before she got them, but there are signed contracts between the Polish government and Bofors to show the intent was there. 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
2,725 posts
17,150 battles
2 hours ago, HussarKaz said:

To be honest, I am afraid that Grom with Bofors guns from Błyska may be too weak for Tier 8. But anyway it's an interesting idea

No, not model 34/36 guns from Blyska, they would be a DP model 42 variant. Probably with a 5s or lower reload (depending on balance)

 

120mm/50 Model 24/34/36 (~10 rpm) Van Ghent, Regele Ferdinand, Błyska.

120mm/50 Model 42 (~20 rpm) Oland, Grom (aka a 'what if' Poland managed to build the improved Grom-class in the 40s)

120mm/50 Model 50 (~33 rpm) Friesland

 

Gerard Callenburgh uses a slightly wonky 24C 45 cal derivative on Triaxial mounts for AA. WG can fudge stats to make them fit the line.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
312 posts
914 battles
38 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

There were (confirmed) plans to re-arm them with Blyska guns. War broke out before she got them, but there are signed contracts between the Polish government and Bofors to show the intent was there. 

Of course - but reconstruction plan (codename: Wichura) you're talking about was never realized because of war outbreak.

I think it would be better to use real Burza hulls - they are very interesting anyway - and put her on Tier 4.

Regele Ferdinand is more suitable for Tier 5 than Burza.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
70 posts

I have preposition for a Southern Europe destroyer line:

 

II -      Keravnos (Greece) - 2x1 88mm guns, 4x1 500mm TT, speed 32 knots

III -     Aetos (Greece) - 4x1 100mm guns, 4x1 533mm TT, speed 32 knots

IV -    Mărăști (Romania) - 3x1 152mm guns, 4x1 76mm AA guns,  2x2 457mm TT, speed 34 knots

V -     Beograd (Royal Yugoslavia) - 4x1 120mm guns, 2x2 40mm AA guns, 2x1 15mm AA machine guns, 2x3 550mm TT, speed 39,2 knots

VI -    Regele Ferdinand (Romania) - 5x1 120mm guns, 1x1 76mm AA gun, 2x1 20mm AA guns, 2x3 533 TT, speed 37 knots

VII -   Dubrovnik (Royal Yugoslavia) - 4x1 140mm guns, 1x2 83.5mm AA gun, 2x2 + 2x1 40mm AA guns, 2x1 15mm AA machine guns, 2x3 533mm TT, 40.3 knots

VIII -  Split (Royal Yugoslavia) - 5x1 140mm guns, 5x2 40mm AA guns, 4x1 15mm AA machine guns, 2x3 or 3x2 or 2x2+1x3 533mm TT, speed 38 knots

IX -    Doxa (Greece) - 5x1 127mm guns, 6x1 20mm AA guns, 6x1 12.7mm AA machine guns, 2x5 533 TT, speed 37.4 knots

X -     Kountouriotis (Greece) - 3x2 127mm guns, 2x4 + 2x2 40mm AA guns, 12x1 20mm AA guns, 2x5 533mm TT, speed 35 knots


Premium destroyers (including destroyers from Northern European countries):

 

II -   Drazki (Bulgaria) - 2x1 47mm guns, 2x1 37mm AA guns, 3x1 460mm TT, speed 26 knots

II -   T1 (Royal Yugoslavia) - 2x1 66mm guns, 2x2 450mm TT, speed 28 knots

VI -  R11 Split (Socialist Yugoslavia) - 4x1 127mm, 1x4 + 2x2 + 2x1 40mm AA guns, 1x5 533mm TT, speed 31.5 knots

VII - Błyskawica (Poland) 1x1 + 3x2 120mm guns, 2x2 40mm AA guns, 4x2 13.2mm AA machine guns, 2x3 533 TT, speed 39 knots

IX -  Friesland (Netherlands) - 2x2 120mm guns, 6x1 20mm AA guns

 



I don't know what is with Beograd and Regele Ferdinand, maybe to swap places in tiers (Beograd T6 and Regele Ferdinand T5) .

But I don't know: Beograd had better AA and speed, but Regele Ferdinand had more guns 120mm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[-TPF-]
Players
3,502 posts
14,514 battles
10 minutes ago, HussarKaz said:

Regele Ferdinand is more suitable for Tier 5 than Burza.

Ah, I'm trying to keep those for the Southern Europe/Mediterranean line. Beograd, Dubrovnik, Vasilissa Olga, Regele Ferdinand, Churucca, Oquendo, Hydra, Marasti.... there's plenty of choice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
312 posts
914 battles

In my opinion it makes no sense to divide Europe into "Northern" and "Southern". Moreover, this makes a cruiser line impossible to complete.

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[JRM]
Players
5,425 posts
22,529 battles

The pan euro nation sure as hell wont be split in two, they can easily make more then one DD line in it but I suspect we can cont ourselves lucky if they make even one silver line in forseable future and not make the tree premium only...

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[CR33D]
[CR33D]
Players
2,559 posts
25,285 battles

While I admire your dedication to create Pan European lines, creating this lines, especially the cruiser one, just from real life ships is not always possible. There is plenty of DDs that could be used but not nearly enough cruisers. also there is a tendency to add ships which are not suited for this game at all or trying to push certain ships above their realistic tiers. Nuber of guns and torps are tended to be main consideration quite offten disregarding other things like desplacement or line consistency.

 

14 hours ago, HussarKaz said:

At tier 2 I also see - as a premium ship - the famous Bulgarian torpedo ship Drazki, which is now a museum ship in Varna.

 

Just no. No way. Drazki is a torpedo boat not destroyer. Even at T2 it is way to small and way too poorly armed for that. While ships like Tachibana, Smith or V-25 looks like small ships they are huuuuuuuge when compared to Drazki. Drazki is only 38m long with displacement of only 97t. For comparation

  • Tachibana ~ 83m/605t
  • Smith ~ 90m/700t
  • V-25 ~ 85m/975t

So about 2.5 tme bigger and with 6 to 10 times more displacement. And displacement is something on which HP pool is based. Also only 2x47mm guns! What is it going to do with that?

 

14 hours ago, HussarKaz said:

On tier 5 we may find another Dutch ship, the Tromp-class light cruiser. Due to the fact that one of Tromp-class cruisers, Jacob van Heemskerck, was modified into an anti-aircraft cruiser, in-game Tromp should have an access to this configuration. Hull B will have torpedo launchers removed in accordance with historical configuration, and will have a possibility to equip 10x102 mm dual-purpose guns instead of 6x 152 mm Bofors guns.

 

Trump is more a destroyer leader then light cruiser. There is greater peobability that it would be a DD in the game then cruiser. It is too small for T5, by displacement

 

14 hours ago, HussarKaz said:

Tier 6 and 7 is occupied by Spanish light cruisers with murderous torpedo armanent: Méndez Núñez (at stock: poor main battery but with 12 torpedo tubes, at top only 6 torpedo tubes but with massively upgraded main battery containing 8x120 mm dual-purpose guns, according to historical 1944 modification)

 

Again Méndez Núñez to small for T6

 

14 hours ago, HussarKaz said:

and Almirante Cervera, a very quick (35 knots) and manueverable light cruiser armed with 8x152 mm guns and 12 torpedo tubes, known for her role at Spanish civil war.

 

Too small for T7. It should be T6 instead.

 

14 hours ago, HussarKaz said:

On Tier 8 we can find the only heavy cruiser in line - Spanish ship Canarias, armed with 8x203 mm main battery and 12 torpedo tubes.

 

First 203mm guns in the line of 152mm guns? No. Also considering that London and Devonshire are T6 and Surrey is T7, Canaris should be at T7. But as a premium.

 

14 hours ago, HussarKaz said:

I must admit that tier 9 and 10 is a BIG problem in this line. I would like to see there modern post-war cruisers: De Zeven Provinciën and Tre Kronor, but I am afraid they would be significantly weaker than other cruisers at these tiers. In the other hand, they are too modern to be put at tier 7 or below. They should have radar and Defensive AA consumable.

 

None of those two could fit at T9 or T10.  De Zeven Provinciën maybe, big maybe, could be T8 but nothing more then that.

 

7 hours ago, Andrejevic_ said:

IX -    Doxa (Greece) - 5x1 127mm guns, 6x1 20mm AA guns, 6x1 12.7mm AA machine guns, 2x5 533 TT, speed 37.4 knots

X -     Kountouriotis (Greece) - 3x2 127mm guns, 2x4 + 2x2 40mm AA guns, 12x1 20mm AA guns, 2x5 533mm TT, speed 35 knots

 

So another  line with Fletcher and Gearing at T9 and T10.

 

7 hours ago, Andrejevic_ said:

II -   Drazki (Bulgaria) - 2x1 47mm guns, 2x1 37mm AA guns, 3x1 460mm TT, speed 26 knots

 

I already explained for Drazki above. But same answer - No

 

7 hours ago, Andrejevic_ said:

II -   T1 (Royal Yugoslavia) - 2x1 66mm guns, 2x2 450mm TT, speed 28 knots

 

Same as for Drazki. Too small for this game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[-TPF-]
Players
3,502 posts
14,514 battles

There are spins on the Fletcher/Gearing design for higher tiers - the Spanish Oquendo and Roger De Lauria types (the latter having Gearing firepower while being rather different in terms of layout). It is difficult to ignore that the US had an awful lot of spare Destroyers after WW2, though, and that they sold them to anyone who wanted them.....

 

2 hours ago, Yedwy said:

The pan euro nation sure as hell wont be split in two, they can easily make more then one DD line in it but I suspect we can cont ourselves lucky if they make even one silver line in forseable future and not make the tree premium only...

I suspect you're right, which is quite disappointing. In the 1930s, destroyers were the counters to Battleships, later they became the counters to aircraft carriers and submarines, and it would be interesting to see them try and develop new DD playstyles based around these ideas, rather than just gunboat dakka and setting things on fire.  We have enough - too much, really - of that at higher tiers. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[INTRO]
[INTRO]
Players
1,261 posts
15,509 battles

I doubt Tre Kronor for T 10.

 

She's about the size of an Omaha and has a seven gun broadside,

 

T6, T7 tops.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
2,725 posts
17,150 battles
9 hours ago, HussarKaz said:

Regele Ferdinand is more suitable for Tier 5 than Burza.

 

RF is too powerful for a silver tier 5, it's a fully blown interwar destroyer leader like Dubrovnik and comes before late 30s leaders like Blys.

 

Tier 5: 5 gun WW1 leader variants with 120mm/45 BL guns (8-10s reload with 'WW1' air drag shells) See Jianwai.

Tier 6: 5 gun Interwar leader variants with 120mm/45 QF or 120mm/50 Model 24 guns (5-6.5s reload with 'WW2' air drag shells)

 

OP tier 5 premium is fine I guess, worse case is a WW1 destroyer design with WW1 guns trying to complete at tier 6 (Leone)

 

There's a ton of EU destroyers better suited for tier 5, like a Almirante Antequera (4 gun Spanish Churucca sub class) Speaking of Spain, now WG are fully committed to high tier 50s/60s designs you can include the various Oquendo/Roger de Lauria class hulls.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
70 posts
8 hours ago, HussarKaz said:

In my opinion it makes no sense to divide Europe into "Northern" and "Southern". Moreover, this makes a cruiser line impossible to complete.

Europe should not be divided into "Northern" and "Southern", but only destroyers. Two lines for destroyers, one unique for cruisers and one unique for battleships (if it is possible).

2 hours ago, fumtu said:

So another  line with Fletcher and Gearing at T9 and T10.

Doxa was a Gleaves-class destroyer. I did not consider Turkish or Spanish destroyers. If they were put in, they would have many, many ships. Maybe two full lines and one subline (like in Japanese and Soviet tree).


And Vasilefs Georgios was G and H-class destroyer, she was same like Gallant.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[-TPF-]
Players
3,502 posts
14,514 battles
4 minutes ago, Andrejevic_ said:

Europe should not be divided into "Northern" and "Southern", but only destroyers. Two lines for destroyers, one unique for cruisers and one unique for battleships (if it is possible).

It's just the way the DD designs fall.  Scandinavian and Dutch designs are prevalent in the north, British, French and Italian influence is stronger in the Med.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
3,342 posts

In terms of WW1 era ships, I think there should be more Austro-Hungarian and Ottoman Empire ships in the tree. Especially since there would not really be any of those higher up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[CR33D]
[CR33D]
Players
2,559 posts
25,285 battles
1 hour ago, Andrejevic_ said:

Doxa was a Gleaves-class destroyer. 

 
Then you put wrong weapons for it. Gleaves class lost fifth gun early in the war  and by the time it was transfered to Greece it lost its torpedo tubes too. So definitely no a t9 ship, not even in its original form.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
312 posts
914 battles
5 hours ago, fumtu said:

Just no. No way. Drazki is a torpedo boat not destroyer. Even at T2 it is way to small and way too poorly armed for that. While ships like Tachibana, Smith or V-25 looks like small ships they are huuuuuuuge when compared to Drazki. Drazki is only 38m long with displacement of only 97t. For comparation

  • Tachibana ~ 83m/605t
  • Smith ~ 90m/700t
  • V-25 ~ 85m/975t

So about 2.5 tme bigger and with 6 to 10 times more displacement. And displacement is something on which HP pool is based. Also only 2x47mm guns! What is it going to do with that?

I see Drazki as a premium, so she may have some unique attributes. With her tiny size, she would have problem with fighting other DDs, low HP pool, weak guns, but she would have great concealment and be a nightmare for BBs. We may consider adding this ship as WoWs equivalent of TKS 20.

 

5 hours ago, fumtu said:

Again Méndez Núñez to small for T6

 

Too small for T7. It should be T6 instead.

 

First 203mm guns in the line of 152mm guns? No. Also considering that London and Devonshire are T6 and Surrey is T7, Canaris should be at T7. But as a premium.

 

I think you care about size too much. Ships of smaller European countries were often... smaller (Dutch cruisers) or bigger (Polish destroyers or Dubrovnik for example) than typical ships of the class and the era. Mendes Nunez at Tier 6, with 12 torpedo tubes, would be OP as hell.

I would accept changing Canarias status from tech tree to premium but there is a question - what would you see at tier 8 instead of Canarias?

 

4 hours ago, creamgravy said:

RF is too powerful for a silver tier 5, it's a fully blown interwar destroyer leader like Dubrovnik and comes before late 30s leaders like Blys.

It's always easy to balance by soft stats changes.

Tier 6 is crowded already. Also remember that Regele was much smaller than Tier 6 DDs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×