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HMS_LIVERPOOL

Italian cruiser line

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Is it just me. But does this new Italian ship line feel like such a let down and a non fun line to play. Ok they have a new smoke and a new shell type SAP but is anyone enjoying it ???

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I heared a funny line in a stream today.

 

Someone asked the streamer: whats the trait of the italian ship?

Answer was: Its crap

 

I think, that sums it up perfectly. :Smile_sceptic:

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9 minutes ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

shot-19.11.14_22.55.18-0946.jpg

 

Yes, I am. Had an enjoyable experience so far :Smile_great:

Against Spotted DDs... what about any other ship that is bow on, cause I think most can agree that SAP is OP against DDs and awful against anything else...

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31 minutes ago, Chaos_Umbra said:

Against Spotted DDs... what about any other ship that is bow on, cause I think most can agree that SAP is OP against DDs and awful against anything else...

Shoot at something else, reposition or aim for the super structure. Same as the RN CL line.

 

I don’t know yet whether SAP is OP against DDs. You can still angle somewhat, which you cannot against a Zao... 

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These ships can't be played as HE-spamming, fire-starters so many players struggle with them. If you missplay them they will hurt you but if you can figure them out they will reward you.

 

Same as any other ship.

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having fun in the Zara, you can build up some decent damage over a battle, i find many cruisers broadside because they think you'll fire only SAP, the AP can do some nice citadel damage in those cases

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11 hours ago, SaintGordon said:

I heared a funny line in a stream today.

 

Someone asked the streamer: whats the trait of the italian ship?

Answer was: Its crap

 

I think, that sums it up perfectly. :Smile_sceptic:

And this response sums up nicely what is wrong with most CCs and why WG is "not listening to them" (and its not only CCs either but many other people as well) that come forward with statements like "muh HE (other things can be substituted here) overpowered, needs a summary nerf" (which in itself is not neccesarily untrue in many a case) but when a ship or a line that doesnt have a said trait comes out (in this case HE aka fire damage) its crap, I mean lets talk about hypocricy here that people mostly abusing the "broken ships" are CCs slash spokesmen but when you point it out to them its usually "muh I only do it to point out how its broken" response... I call BS on this, they do it becouse they enjoy abusing it and ripping "the pleb" a new one esp if they had the chance to ST the said ship so they already got the feel for it long before most players could even look at the stats let alone play them... Not all CCs are like that but many are and quite frankly there oppinion is worth :etc_swear: as well becouse of it, if you want to point out something is broken you make a vid about it and publish it, you dont take it out every day for 20 matches for that...

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11 hours ago, Chaos_Umbra said:

awful against anything else

More like awful against russian and german BBs, all-or-nothing armored ships eat SAP all day every day. And for SAP to ricochet you need to present perfect bow on, anything less and they will go through.

 

10 hours ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

You can still angle somewhat, which you cannot against a Zao... 

In DD I'd focus on presenting as small target as possible, as even bow on I've received substantial SAP hits when bumrushing Zara

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14 hours ago, HMS_LIVERPOOL said:

Is it just me. But does this new Italian ship line feel like such a let down and a non fun line to play. Ok they have a new smoke and a new shell type SAP but is anyone enjoying it ???

It's not just you. SAP is inconsistent and if there aren't any dd's or squishy cruisers you can shoot, you'll struggle to do damage. Overall, I'd say the main issue with SAP is that short of shooting up a DD, there aren't really many situations where HE wouldn't have done a better job, and HE does a good enough job on DD's to begin with. The +5 degrees autobounce buff on it doesn't seem to make much of a difference, if I'm honest.

 

Smokes.. I'm not a fan of either. They have short duration, long cooldowns, and you don't have many of them, making them only useful as a "temporarily get out of trouble when a bb looks at you" tool. 

 

Your main battery reload times are really long. Torps are extremely slow and easily dodged. There's no team utility in terms of radar, hydro or good AA.

 

Having said all that, I understand the thinking process that lead to these features; what do people complain about a lot in this game? HE spam, too much hydro and radar... so WG made a cruiser line that has none of those things. The problem being, it also results in them being a bit crap. Here's a line that specializes in nuking DD's that has no tools to detect said DD's, or their torps. TBH, rightly so, because if they had said consumables it'd be the final nail in the coffin of DD play, already countered heavily by all the radar, hydro and CV's around; the last thing you want as a DD player is a cruiser with SAP radaring you. Because of this, it can be said the ITA cruiser crappyness is a direct result of the feature and power creep WG's done over the last few years. This is them trying to make a strong line that doesn't rely on hydro, radar, or HE spam, and the result is the most complained-about-being-weak line I've seen to date.

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Main issue here is the RM line is basically opposite from what is considered a "nominal cruiser" and its playstyle, in essence what an average cruiser play is - start as many (sticky) fires as you can in a burst on enemy BB(s) (which are easyest to hit from distance, have most hp and there are more of them then any other ship type in an average MM) and swich target and/or go dark and let the fire burn so you get your damage ideally without getting shot up too much by the said BB(s) in the process... Now the italian line dosent get the "free damage" of fire, you have to shoot all the time if you want it...

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I'm too rubbish to be able to tell if the Italians are better/worse than the other cruiser lines, but they certainly seem to bring a distinct play style; on the whole, I'm in favour greater variety, even if I can't do much with the things myself.

Slightly entertainingly, I was in a game yesterday with an upcoming premium test ship (can't remember which one); the person with it was asked if it was any good - the response was words to the effect of "It's Italian, so no!"...

I don't mind mediocre ships, as such, but they do need to be fun - it's this latter point that I have yet to form an opinion on.

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13 hours ago, SaintGordon said:

I heared a funny line in a stream today.

 

Someone asked the streamer: whats the trait of the italian ship?

Answer was: Its crap

 

I think, that sums it up perfectly. :Smile_sceptic:

But at least they're good at being crap:Smile_trollface:

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1 hour ago, Captain_Newman said:

It's not just you. SAP is inconsistent and if there aren't any dd's or squishy cruisers you can shoot, you'll struggle to do damage. Overall, I'd say the main issue with SAP is that short of shooting up a DD, there aren't really many situations where HE wouldn't have done a better job, and HE does a good enough job on DD's to begin with. The +5 degrees autobounce buff on it doesn't seem to make much of a difference, if I'm honest.

 

Smokes.. I'm not a fan of either. They have short duration, long cooldowns, and you don't have many of them, making them only useful as a "temporarily get out of trouble when a bb looks at you" tool. 

 

Your main battery reload times are really long. Torps are extremely slow and easily dodged. There's no team utility in terms of radar, hydro or good AA.

 

Having said all that, I understand the thinking process that lead to these features; what do people complain about a lot in this game? HE spam, too much hydro and radar... so WG made a cruiser line that has none of those things. The problem being, it also results in them being a bit crap. Here's a line that specializes in nuking DD's that has no tools to detect said DD's, or their torps. TBH, rightly so, because if they had said consumables it'd be the final nail in the coffin of DD play, already countered heavily by all the radar, hydro and CV's around; the last thing you want as a DD player is a cruiser with SAP radaring you. Because of this, it can be said the ITA cruiser crappyness is a direct result of the feature and power creep WG's done over the last few years. This is them trying to make a strong line that doesn't rely on hydro, radar, or HE spam, and the result is the most complained-about-being-weak line I've seen to date.

I think you need some more games with RM cruisers...

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I dont think they are that bad, currently i'm still at the Amalfi, but you can have good games in it, they just Play very differently.

 

The slow Torps are somehow like mines, thats how i use them mostly, they also reload fast. With just 1 set per side you are not gonna hit much if you fire on mobile ships in the open.

 

Also the ships are quite fast and they have a fast rudder, i wish the turrets would turn a Little faster so you can Play them a Little better in open Waters. Also the smoke can be utilised in open water to get somewhere or just to pump some rounds, they are more mobile than other cruisers that way.

 

So Concealment and maybe turret Rotation seem to be useful buffs from my perspective.

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2 minutes ago, Wilhelm_von_Tegetthoff said:

I dont think they are that bad, currently i'm still at the Amalfi, but you can have good games in it, they just Play very differently.

 

The slow Torps are somehow like mines, thats how i use them mostly, they also reload fast. With just 1 set per side you are not gonna hit much if you fire on mobile ships in the open.

 

Also the ships are quite fast and they have a fast rudder, i wish the turrets would turn a Little faster so you can Play them a Little better in open Waters. Also the smoke can be utilised in open water to get somewhere or just to pump some rounds, they are more mobile than other cruisers that way.

 

So Concealment and maybe turret Rotation seem to be useful buffs from my perspective.

having fun with the Zara, it plays well for the most part, the torps are slow but as you said just drop some and occasionally a ship will blunder into them, i am tempted to get the torpedo acceleration as a captain skill to try, it's very easy to say they are crap but i am getting some decent damage and kills.....and so are others, i am liking them so far....except the Trento

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More or less rubbish with puny damage output.

Today while kiting (haha) (is it even possible) in a in a Fuso I managed to sink a Trento and Montecuccioli who were pushing me assisted by a Warspite, ignoring the cruisers that couldnt damage me I burned the Warspite, cruisers got a bit too close so I killed them with AP and then finished the Warspite with more HE. Blapped their carrier and earned myself a Kraken

 

shot-19.11.15_21.57.14-0160.jpg

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On 11/15/2019 at 11:26 AM, Yedwy said:

And this response sums up nicely what is wrong with most CCs and why WG is "not listening to them" (and its not only CCs either but many other people as well) that come forward with statements like "muh HE (other things can be substituted here) overpowered, needs a summary nerf" (which in itself is not neccesarily untrue in many a case) but when a ship or a line that doesnt have a said trait comes out (in this case HE aka fire damage) its crap, I mean lets talk about hypocricy here that people mostly abusing the "broken ships" are CCs slash spokesmen but when you point it out to them its usually "muh I only do it to point out how its broken" response... I call BS on this, they do it becouse they enjoy abusing it and ripping "the pleb" a new one esp if they had the chance to ST the said ship so they already got the feel for it long before most players could even look at the stats let alone play them... Not all CCs are like that but many are and quite frankly there oppinion is worth :etc_swear: as well becouse of it, if you want to point out something is broken you make a vid about it and publish it, you dont take it out every day for 20 matches for that...

I see you are missing the point completly. most CCs are players with a lot expiriance and know how of the game.

When they "show" how bad or broken ships are, they want to profe there point.

 

If a CC can break 200k Damage in  the first 5 minutes of the game the ships IS out of balance. Guess what crap i mean. A hint, its not Italian.

And they dont do this to be the dude, they show it, they PROVE it.

And WG just ignores prove...

Spread sheet says, its fine... thats BS

 

 

When you ignore the CCs, who are playing the game for there living, its ignorant and not smart.

 

True is, a lot or "normal" players cry often and loud. its hard to see whats just meme and what is justified criticism.

 

But ignoring ppl who are at the base, have expiriance and know how is stupid.

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Ronchabale said:

More or less rubbish with puny damage output.

Today while kiting (haha) (is it even possible) in a in a Fuso I managed to sink a Trento and Montecuccioli who were pushing me assisted by a Warspite, ignoring the cruisers that couldnt damage me I burned the Warspite, cruisers got a bit too close so I killed them with AP and then finished the Warspite with more HE. Blapped their carrier and earned myself a Kraken

 

 

Great..brags about killing cruisers in one of the most powerfully BB's for its tier whilst not actually having tried a single new Italian cruiser but claims puny damage output..:Smile-angry:

(Stay calm SeaWolf, stay ca.....oh bollocks....)

 

Ry5mwzI.gif Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee...........

 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, SeaWolf7 said:

Great..brags about killing cruisers in one of the most powerfully BB's for its tier whilst not actually having tried a single new Italian cruiser but claims puny damage output..:Smile-angry:

(Stay calm SeaWolf, stay ca.....oh bollocks....)

 

Ry5mwzI.gif Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee...........

 

 

 

 

I have 2 of the new ones and the 2 "old" premiums

The damage output is easy to (not) see when on the recieving end.  (also I can see the reload / dpm values on the rubbish sitting unused in my port)

So tell me why I should play it if it looks like rubbish and I have well over 100 (better) ships to choose from,  I am not in this game for punishment

 

 

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25 minutes ago, Ronchabale said:

So tell me why I should play it if it looks like rubbish and I have well over 100 (better) ships to choose from,  I am not in this game for punishment

They all misplayed, by the sounds of it.  Monte is an easy ship to get wrong. She's quick but doesn't have the firepower of Genova or a devastating torp salvo, so there's no point chasing or making YOLO runs. They should have just stayed with the Warspite and let him burn you down.... SAP can be effective against BBs, so they could contribute.

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59 minutes ago, Ronchabale said:

 

I have 2 of the new ones and the 2 "old" premium

 

sorry not in your list of ships perhaps needs updating.:Smile_amazed:

 

59 minutes ago, Ronchabale said:

 

The damage output is easy to (not) see when on the recieving end.  (also I can see the reload / dpm values on the rubbish sitting unused in my port)

so haven't tried them then?

 

59 minutes ago, Ronchabale said:

 

So tell me why I should play it if it looks like rubbish and I have well over 100 (better) ships to choose from,  I am not in this game for punishment

So haven't tried them then?

Ad least try them to then support your Theory/statement that they are rubbish. 

 

Sap can cause damage to most ships (especially DD's) at all but extreme angles, most of the people claiming that Italian cruisers have low damage output are not doing it right imo. Ap is strong against broadside cruisers. Yes they are a different playstyle....thank god...at last something to sink my teeth into and enjoy a new challenge in getting the play style sussed.

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24 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

They all misplayed, by the sounds of it.  Monte is an easy ship to get wrong. She's quick but doesn't have the firepower of Genova or a devastating torp salvo, so there's no point chasing or making YOLO runs. They should have just stayed with the Warspite and let him burn you down.... SAP can be effective against BBs, so they could contribute.

Yeah they misplayed badly but the trend of crusers not being able to damage an angled BB is a problem, saw the same issue when in a Sinop I was hit by 100  203mm SAP shells from 2 Genovas, I just ignored them, their total damage from the 100 hits was 29663

shot-19.10.31_20.50.45-0347.jpg

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