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DFens_666

Playing for fun / Frustration... The core issue with the game?

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I play with various goals in mind, having fun is just something that comes when i do well i guess, seeing any hard earned progress or play in any match go to waste is highly annoying (so doing 300k in a ship thats terrible but team still manages to throw).

 

I think having goals are better since the game is made to frustrate you in the hopes you will spend and then give you a little fun and maybe repeat cycle untill you get burnt out i guess.

 

Playing for certain stat goals and also coal is pretty much the only reason why i bother, apart from a few interesting missions and any ships i really want to get.

 

But yeah the whole get frustrated and spend moneh and get some noice rewards and repeat is a well established form of hook and bait of gaming at this point.

 

Either way gud post fam.

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Just play to ruin the fun for others and the game will become much more enjoyable. 

It's even more fun when you consider that this kind of griefing is not only being condoned but actively encouraged by WG.

Join the CV masterrace today!:Smile_trollface:

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3 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Just play to ruin the fun for others and the game will become much more enjoyable. 

It's even more fun when you consider that this kind of griefing is not only being condoned but actively encouraged by WG.

Join the CV masterrace today!:Smile_trollface:

 

I wont say i havent thought about it, guess WG gave me Enterprise for a reason? :Smile_trollface::Smile_hiding:

Also i quite like not being so much team dependant :Smile_medal:

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All very good points.

What I think alters our perception of how much 'fun' WoWs is, is our own life experiences/history.

Me? I'm a few years older than Jingles (?!) and am one of those people who have 'been there, done that & got the tee-shirt'.

Being shot at and missed is one of the most exhilarating experiences ever, doing so in a virtual environment like WoWs is better (less risk).

 

I just like shooting HE and blowing stuff up without the risk of an impromptu flying lesson from a near miss, and yes even dodging rocket attacks from aircraft is fun (for certain values of fun).

 

I freely admit to being weird and different to most players, (much older, female, etc).

 

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14 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

- T1+2: Lets not bother with that

 

Since the Eritrea was released, I've been having fun playing a bit of T1 Fight Club without the long queue times. Wouldn't want to do it all the time, but it varies the game to play different tiers and T1 can be fun for a short time.

Let's face it, these aren't all newbies who must think the Italian navy is the best thing since biscuits needed to be smashed with a cannonball to break them up, but I still got my karma flattened when I got 6 kills in the Erie.

 

On the clan battles front, love the new 8v8 format when we can get a team together. I agree though that Russian ships seem to be over-represented, so that's Vodka balanced. I think they made clans too small to start with. Now it's hard to recruit enough members for the non-elite clans, where not all members have a high level of dedication to the game.

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40 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

- Clan Brawl: Awesome, but again, overlaps often with my workschedule and its only available couple of times per year. 

 

Perhaps they could make this as a permanent small team mode without time restrictions and unlimited queue times. Perhaps they don't want to do this though, as it might take too many people out of the random battle queue.

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[SP1CY]
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Easy Formula:

 

Happy players are happy and dont need to change anything

 

Frustrated players look at Premium ships and buy then, when they think they maybe help to get better.

 

Sum:
Frustrated players spend money, happy players dont

 

Easy, isnt it?

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I just play ships i like and enjoy , for me fun is to win a game which is almost lost ( i don`t like the grind) . Still WoWs is 10 000  better that WoT :)

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I play for fun. Can only ever b rst with 3-5 games a night, i dont think im too detrimental to the team, i like getting the random collectibles(which is anime girls atm) :))

 

I find if i play more i start getting annoyed at myself and my team. 

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3 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

Firstofall, no, this isnt a thread about insulting people who "play 4 fun" so if you were interested in that, you thought wrong :Smile_hiding:

 

So, what i was thinking about today, inspired by this thread

was, how do we play WoWs?
Do we play for fun, or do we mostly grind with occasionally~ having fun? And, which one is actually "better"?

 

Shouldnt we play to have fun? Ofc that would be the ideal situation. But does it work in WoWs? Personaly, i dont think it does. And i feel, a lot of players agree with this lately, simply by reading the forums.

Lets say, you get home from work/school or whatever, and you have time to play 30mins/1h to play WoWs (or anything else for that matter). So you can play like 2-4 games. How likely is it, that you are actually getting frustrated? Lately, id say its very likely due to various reasons.

Having fun is ofc really down to what you prefer on a personal level, what is fun for one person, might not be fun for the other. But im pretty sure, there is something in this game for everyone to dislike.

Now lets say, if i want to have fun, i could play WoWs or start any other game i have and like. Wouldnt it make more sense to play something else, where im sure ill be having fun, as compared to play WoWs, where i have a good chance to have an unpleasant game?

And it's not only because of work/school and having few hours to play.

It's how you get from Work/school. Tired? dead tired?  In what mood?

Case and point.

The grind

I'm on my 29th consecutive day of playing only Halo Ops. Now I'm playing very seriously, I'm grinding XP for my captains and my projections are by the end of it I may be able to have my first  two 19 point captains.

 Signals were the first ones to go out of the window, next was the fun I had , now was Saving Transylvania and Sunray in the Darkness.

All that it's left is a meh Twilight op with meh ships and the necessity to force myself to play...for the XP

yesterday I could not make me play (I'm at that point, in the middle of a perfect storm)

with the conditions that you described you only will find FUN in a game where you are not committed to, where you have no expectations or habits picked up along the way because of this that you talk

3 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

So what should i play for fun? Its not about having to deal with CVs/Radars/BBs sniping from maxrange/ HE spamming/*insert what you feel like*... its having one or more of those EVERY GAME !! At some point, you get to your frustration level, and if you keep hitting that all the time, you start to think: why bother anymore? Its a constant gamble: If i pick DD, will i get one or more CVs, and will he go for me? being focused by a noob CV all game long IS NOT FUN even if you win in the end. Winning is somewhat fun, but i prefer having tight games and actually being able to play. Rolfstomps are lame either way, because you are not allowed to play the game, which kinda defeats the purpose of playing a game. 

 

And the other gamble is: What will my teammates do? I even concluded today: BBs that shoot from maxrange might do this, because its actually fun for them? I mean, i can certainly understand that if we look at the average player. He cant cope with the threats of DDs/CVs/HE spam. So in order to "enjoy" the game a little longer, he sits as far away as possible, so he wont just die early one. Understandable? I think it actually is.

Now ill add something into this, which makes it even more spicy:

Some of your teammates are trying to have fun any way possible for them (like the BBs sniping from maxrange) and you get those players in there, which like to do their stupid missions, like get 5 spotted ribbons on TX. Pick a DD, yolo in, mission done.

If we look at this, its no wonder that people keep whining about MM. MM cant know why people play the way they do. Some wanna do their missions *their way*, others play so they can have fun, which might differ from our own view.

 

you just play and have FUN.

 

I too love Op.

I'm a 90% cruiser main and I went really, really out of my way to get a DD to play dynamo Operation...Twice.

first with the t6 IJN DD (didn't filled the minimum requirements)

second, Icarus.

And WG retrieve Dynamo from rotation :Smile_sceptic:

 

Coop battles are a must, may not be your thing but it rewards big, with Fun.

there you don't care about those said random/clan/ranked habits/fears and the bots brawl. After this grind where do you think I will start playing with my regular ships? (oh,How I miss IGOR and Svyatozar, Magnu-S, Jackal already):Smile_sad:

 

I think smaller teams would be better.

One could have more space to manoeuvre in the map, and so on.

could help MM eventually with no penalty in queue time because of more available.teams

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

 

TL;DR?

Puh, dunno really...

Playing WoWs just for fun doesnt seem viable, because too much frustrating stuff is around in every game you start. So playing to grind first seems to make more sense, but is bad for the game.

Viable for what?

It all depends of the goals of each one of us.

I play for fun, mostly around t6, some t7 and few t8, mixed modes

I liked sprints (my first time ever I made them) t6 was fun, t7 was strange, t8 was a nightmare but all of them were for fun, I didn't took them seriously because I was expecting Halloween operation with Leviathan and Octupus.(I don't remember what was it called).and I saw sprints as an opportunity to train for Halo ops.

So pretty casual .

 

.

 

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2 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

Join the CV masterrace today

At least part of the masterrace was done and buried with the rework.

I saw a fair share of  cv games, I even played a few.

And there's one game that comes into mind, the most spectacular I ever seen and by far, very unorthodox, extremely aggressive.

I don't know if he's a good player or a bad player, but that game...OMG.

He dwarfs Flamu in the middle of Two brothers stuff.

His team was WTF

I was WTF while seeing the replay, in the edge of my seat.

I sincerely don't know how that replay didn't ended up in Jingles.

 

It's a shame he didn't make it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Butterdoll said:

I think smaller teams would be better. 

 

You know what? Thats something we havent read often and it might just be a problem solver. It would makes games less stressful, HE overload spam less of a thing, new/bad players would have it easier to get in the game without beeing killed by focus fire from 9 ships in seconds, mistakes would be punished less etc... I mean we play almost all maps in 7x7/8x8 Clanwars and even Ranked with as little as 5x5 setups. And it works for the game and for the maps. Ofc its not going to stop roflstomps (we know that from ranked).

 

1 hour ago, Butterdoll said:

Viable for what?

It all depends of the goals of each one of us. 

 

These are interesting points. I mean often we have topics here, where people complain about grind over grind. And the usual answers "just ignore them". Honestly - in a game like this, this is pretty much not possible. When I log on, its now a habbit to check: whats the current missions? directives? and so on. Then I pick a ship according to what needs to be done to get there as fast as possible, because I dont have 8 hours per day for the game and I wouldnt want to play 8 hours even if I have them. And even describing this it doesnt sound like talking about a game but rather work. Matter of fact, my working day often starts similar. Open up personal space/mails and check, whats needs to be done, act accordingly.

 

Like... these days, I hardly get to play the ships that I want to play but 90% its down to what I need to play. Playing Musashi now to get the Yamato camo. So Im not continuing my Lion grind, because I chose Musashi. Then I did a lot of italian cruisers lately to get the tokens to get more italian containers. Could have played one of my other cruisers. List goes on and this has been like this for a very long time, since we jump from one grind to the next. And then: clanwar season - ranked season - event mode with some fantasy ships and fanatsy maps that have nothing to do with the actual game - ranked sprint - aaand we start all over again. 4 evenings per week where you possibly play clanwars. To grind rewards to get good ships which... you can hardly play cuz you jump to the next grind and there im again forced to play italian DDs, slovakian river monitors, sibirian tugboats or w/e line is next. Its a never ending treadmill and I feel stupid writing this yet most of us reading this know exactly what im talking about, right?

 

And ignoring those events etc. isnt an option for most of us. Because a) we want to have that stuff and b) imagine you´d ignored every even ever, what would be missing in your port. Missouri, ARP ships, Benham, tons of perma camos for T6 to T10 ships. And C: most of those directives/missions go half way if you just play the game casually. Then you see "damn im almost done - might aswell put a little efford in and finish it" - right? We´ve all been there no?

 

But yea, im pretty much perma grinding to unlock nice stuff that I cant play because I have to jump to the next grind and for that I need to play certain game modes/ships. And at some point your are asking yourself: the fook im even doing here?

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6 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

Firstofall, no, this isnt a thread about insulting people who "play 4 fun" so if you were interested in that, you thought wrong :Smile_hiding:

 

So, what i was thinking about today, inspired by this thread

was, how do we play WoWs?
Do we play for fun, or do we mostly grind with occasionally~ having fun? And, which one is actually "better"?

 

Shouldnt we play to have fun? Ofc that would be the ideal situation. But does it work in WoWs? Personaly, i dont think it does. And i feel, a lot of players agree with this lately, simply by reading the forums.

Lets say, you get home from work/school or whatever, and you have time to play 30mins/1h to play WoWs (or anything else for that matter). So you can play like 2-4 games. How likely is it, that you are actually getting frustrated? Lately, id say its very likely due to various reasons.

Having fun is ofc really down to what you prefer on a personal level, what is fun for one person, might not be fun for the other. But im pretty sure, there is something in this game for everyone to dislike.

Now lets say, if i want to have fun, i could play WoWs or start any other game i have and like. Wouldnt it make more sense to play something else, where im sure ill be having fun, as compared to play WoWs, where i have a good chance to have an unpleasant game?

 

Now lets look at the other option, playing for the grind:

If i wanna grind something, i have a goal. If i can advance towards that goal, even while having a bad game, it actually feels less bad (if you can follow that logic).

However, is this a good way to make a game? I guess this is up for debate...

 

Lets go back to playing for fun and getting frustrated, as having fun should be the main objective while playing a game. is it for WoWs? after today and thinking about it, im not even sure anymore.

So we constantly see people being frustrated with the game. It ranges from teammates over CVs to HE spamming. Often we tell them "git gud or l2p or adapt" But does it make sense? To a certain degree yes, but i think there are limits.

 

Ill just write my personal view up here, hopefully, i wont get attacked for it because there is no reason to attack someone for how they feel *hint*. Lets say, i wanna play some WoWs just to have fun:

 

- T1+2: Lets not bother with that

- T3: Basicly as above, but also its constantly playing against multiple CVs without any AA. This is pretty much a given. Being an XP pinata = not much fun in my book.

- T4: Now it gets more interesting, but we still have the problem of multi CVs - all the time. While you can somewhat defend against CVs by dodging and what not, but its not fun to have it all the time. Actually i think, this is true for all tiers. Couple of days ago i actually played 10 games, which i rarely do these days, but wanted to get the directives done. And even tho i played hightier all the time, there were CVs in almost every game. Now, its ok to have it occasionally (much like RTS CVs) but having it all the time fills up your frustration level.

- T5: Maybe a sweetspot these days, even tho you are still in multi CV territory, which also puts strains onto certain ships/classes *cough DDs*.

- T6: TBH, never really liked it. Even worse nowadays, as it seems to get into T8 MM more frequently, which is pretty horrible.

- T7: used to be my favourite, but now we are getting into useless hightier teammate tiers, which has its own issues.

- T8-10: Just reinforcing the useless teammates who have no idea how to play. Even playing in 3x Unicum Division, this starts to be stressful, which kinda defeats the purpose of having fun :cap_hmm: Lets use the 10 game example from earlier, we played TX to help 1 with directives, and our DD player started to get a headache after few rounds because of the stress level: Constantly CVs, potato teammates dying in few minutes and other stuff imaginable (stupid enemies rushing in for no reason, but getting you almost killed in the process for example).

 

- Coop: Not really fun in my book, i do it mostly for missions. And i have to say, the way the bots act lately is really annoying (showing broadside if you have HE, but take AP they angle or they run away from you...)

 

- Operations: Really liked those, even playing some with 4 guys because its hard but doable. But WG is not interested in those, which really was a bummer for me. I was hoping for Dynamo + the others and new ones. The halloween OPs werent really fun to me, because you needed a group of decent people, but the rewards were kinda crap? It was only a one-time thing basicly, why keep playing it? Thats bad design imo.

 

- Events like Twilight or others: Yeah, they offer something different, which can be ok for a while. Earlier this year, the DD thingy i liked a lot (forgot the name) because it was fast paced :Smile_playing: The Benham grind mode was also OK, but it was boring because you _had to play_ more for the Benham.

 

- Ranked: ok thats worse than Randoms :Smile_hiding:

 

- CBs: Used to like em more, now with Russian Bias + Power Creep i dont enjoy them as much. Basicly because of powercreep, im forced to grind more to stay ontop. And Because of Work and WG never changing ANYTHING regarding times, i often can only play 1-2 or max 3 days per week at best. And not necessarily even the entire duration, because suddenly we have to play 8v8 which makes it harder for some clans (ours too). Having a life outside of WoWs is clearly not allowed :fish_haloween:

- Clan Brawl: Awesome, but again, overlaps often with my workschedule and its only available couple of times per year.

 

So what should i play for fun? Its not about having to deal with CVs/Radars/BBs sniping from maxrange/ HE spamming/*insert what you feel like*... its having one or more of those EVERY GAME !! At some point, you get to your frustration level, and if you keep hitting that all the time, you start to think: why bother anymore? Its a constant gamble: If i pick DD, will i get one or more CVs, and will he go for me? being focused by a noob CV all game long IS NOT FUN even if you win in the end. Winning is somewhat fun, but i prefer having tight games and actually being able to play. Rolfstomps are lame either way, because you are not allowed to play the game, which kinda defeats the purpose of playing a game.

 

And the other gamble is: What will my teammates do? I even concluded today: BBs that shoot from maxrange might do this, because its actually fun for them? I mean, i can certainly understand that if we look at the average player. He cant cope with the threats of DDs/CVs/HE spam. So in order to "enjoy" the game a little longer, he sits as far away as possible, so he wont just die early one. Understandable? I think it actually is.

Now ill add something into this, which makes it even more spicy:

Some of your teammates are trying to have fun any way possible for them (like the BBs sniping from maxrange) and you get those players in there, which like to do their stupid missions, like get 5 spotted ribbons on TX. Pick a DD, yolo in, mission done.

If we look at this, its no wonder that people keep whining about MM. MM cant know why people play the way they do. Some wanna do their missions *their way*, others play so they can have fun, which might differ from our own view.

 

Ok how to fix this?

Literally no idea. I think, thats how WoWs is, and it wont ever change. WG will do their own thing, we have to take it. And if you play to have fun/relax or do missions - doesnt matter, as you WILL get forced to play with others who are doing the opposite what you are trying to achieve.

One way ofc would be, to get other gamemodes going, maybe even with smaller teams, and being able to influence with whom you play, maybe even allowing some basic rewards and completing of missions. Lets be honest, i could just go playing in the training room, but i can hardly for 2 dozen other people in there aswell, who dont want to play that. But they might be willing to play if they get rewards/missions.

Ive basicly thought about a gamemode, much like randoms, but you can join a lobby first, and if there are enough people around, the game will start but the teams will be randomly distributed. This wouldnt matter much, if you could choose with whom you wanna play or not, like only playing with >55% WR people or so. Also i think, giving rewards for that wouldnt matter much. Hardcore rigging could easily be detected, and even if, rigging the game so 1 or 2 people profit from it doesnt make much sense, since you would need 24 players total, and 22 of those dont do anything. So you dont "gain" anything by that, since you still need the time to cycle through everyone.

 

TL;DR?

Puh, dunno really...

Playing WoWs just for fun doesnt seem viable, because too much frustrating stuff is around in every game you start. So playing to grind first seems to make more sense, but is bad for the game.

 

Just a few Comments to Consider.

Pls note I dont Inherently Disagree. I just think that maybe your View is a bit too much Focused on your Personal View and thus a bit Skewed as a General Statement.

 

1.

People in the Forum are not Representative of the General Population of the Game.

In Fact most People in the Forum are more Invested in the Game and tend to be more Competetive.

People that Play for Fun will usually not bother with the Forums in the First Place. I got 4 Friends which are Regular on my Teamspeak Server and all of them are Casual Potatoes who only Play the Game to Relax and Have Fun.

They would never bother with the Forum. Because well. All they want is to Turn on the Game. Have some Fun. And then go off again.

 

2.

Fun is a Different thing for most People.

Some People dont even look at their Winrate. They just Play and dont really care as long as they Enjoy the Matches they Play.

Others meanwhile are much more Occupied with the Victory of the Match. They Play for the Win. And get Frustrated if they dont.

And in between these two there is a whole range of People which lean towards either side but will still enjoy certain Matches regardless or will still consider it a Satisfying Match if they Won even tough the Match itself wasnt to their Liking so much.

 

3.

In General a Game especially a Game like this should be Competetive and Skill Based but needs to Maintain a Fun Gameplay. 

CVs are an Good Example. Competetive Players hate them because they Wield too much Influence and thus even if you with your Surface Ship did everything Right your CV Sucked and you Lose. Which causes you Frustration because the CV is just too Overpowered and Victory which is what you care about. Just is too Dependent on your CV rather than you.

At the same Time. Casual Players hate the CVs just as much. Not because they decide Victory. But because being Focused by a CV and being Completely Unable to do anything. Makes for an Incredible Frustrating Experience as your Effectively Locked out of the Game by this Class being there.

And even for Players who Play CVs themselves the Burden of being Responsible for your Teams Victory is actually rather Straining and often Frustrating.

I myself barely Play CVs lately. Not because I dislike the Class itself or out of Protest. I dont Play them anymore. Because when I play a CV. I am responsible for Carrying that Team. I cant just leisurely Play for Fun in a CV because I am just too Importand to the Team as that I could just Shut down my Brain and go for a Yolo Brawl Ramming a DD out of the Way just for Lolz of it and Sinking.

This Strain has become a Burden so Annoying to me that I just dont Enjoy Playing CV right now.

 

4.

On what to do.

Well. There is a few Methods I guess.

First of All we need Proper Balancing again. Where CVs are not so Domineering that they effectively Decide 80% of the Matches they are Participating in.

 

But aside from that Gamemodes are Certainly another Option.

 

One Example would be Capital Ship only Battles and Screening Ship only Battles.

These 2 Gamemodes would effectively have BBs and CVs Fighting without having to Worry about DDs or HE Spamming Cruisers. And Vice Versa Cruisers and DDs Fighting a much more Fast Paced Match against each other without worrying about being Sniped by a BB and Citadelled out of Existence. (Albeit the Screener Mode would need to Wait till Submarines to come in. Because otherwise the Cruisers have too much of an Advantage as they are Anti DD by Default. So the Subs would then act as Anti Cruiser in that Match Type)

 

But thats just one Option of Many. There is tons of Options to make the Game more Fun for either Casuals or Competing Players without Hurting the other Side.

And Honestly Said. Given WGs vast Playerbase I am actually Surprised they havnt Implemented such things yet.

 

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I play almost exclusively Co-Op nowadays.

 

I just don't want to deal with the drama, frustration and toxcicity. That keeps me away from Randoms, Ranked and Clan Battles.

 

Scenarios can be fun but I feel that there are too few and too far between my favorites for it to be worth it. Just to play the same scenario over and over again for a week is bit boring. Room for improvement there.

 

I have two goals in the game. One long-term and that is to unlock and buy (almost) all the ships in the game. The other is to have a satisfactory experience, fun in another word. But what is fun?

 

For me it's the equivalent of the medeival melee at a tournament.

1171826577_Turnierbuch_des_Ren_von_Anjou_22.thumb.jpg.fc73f6962ae7e61e57419efe59ef6289.jpg

 

Two teams with similar equipment on a even playing field. "Here are we! There are you! Let's get at it!" That's what I'm looking for! And the funny thing is that Co-Op is the best place for this since bots will never back down or run away, they will fight to the end no matter what.

 

This is also the reason that I believe that neither CV or Subs should be in the game. Archers/crossbowmen and ninjas had no place in the melee because of the nature of their weapons and tactics disrupting the even playing field. So for me it's: CV and Subs = uneven prerequisites= Less fun.

 

Playing the game well is fun/satisfactory for me but if all the other players are playing the game as an archery contest instead of a melee then I'll have to find myself another game to have fun.

 

Right now the things that drag the game down for me are:

 

*The players.

* CVs and Subs.

* The teamdamage mechanics.

* The lack of mission-based tasks/goals in the game.

 

I'm finding less and less of "fun" in the game and see fewer and fewer reasons to keep on playing. Sad, but true.

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My advice to players that are frustrated with the game is: dont play. Randoms will always be filled with speshul snowflakes. No way around that. We have tried for years to get different modes and all but WG does not care if the forumites stop playing or complain about this or that. 

 

I would say my average daily Wows gametime has been dropping to almost 0. Maybe a few games a day. Maybe not. WG turned me into a casual pleb. :Smile_teethhappy:

And i know im not the only one seeing that my old clan is basically dead. 

 

But since ive been playing Death Stranding as of late i havent been frustrated with Wows at all. Just dont really care about russianbias simulator 2019 Peace of sh:etc_swear: :Smile_smile:

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"Playing for fun" is more than a reasonable response, but when your "playing for fun" ruins your team mates "fun" then it is just selfish.

 

It has been said many, many times before, that the vast majority of the player base doesn't visit the forums, doesn't want to learn, they just want to fire their guns at ships and hear them go BOOM! No amount of tutorials, in chat suggestions etc will change that, they just don't care because they are "having fun".

 

Personally I play the game for fun, with my idea of "fun" being having a good game and winning, I don't mind having a really close game, playing well and losing, what burns me EVERY DAY is those team mates that don't make it past the first 2-3 mins of the game, ruining that game for everyone, it seems every game these days is done in less than 10mins (it is a 20 min game too!!". Yesterday we had 2 games last less than 6 minutes, enemy score dropped to zero, the level of ineptitude on show was breath taking.

 

There is no solution, I'm pretty sure WG don't want one, why would they? WG employ the least possible effort for maximum return, they are a business after all.

 

Came across a CV player yesterday, with a PR of 6, yes SIX, a couple of hundred games in CV's, to show just what a clown he was in CV's he had just bought the Graf Zeppelin as his premium, the mind boggles, it really does :)

 

But this is ideal for WG, a clueless player with only tier6 silver ships buying tier8 premiums and being truly awful in them, the WG business strategy 1.01

 

TB.

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This is just a garbage excuse. Not even an idiot is having fun when he is beaten up in a game centered arround beating up other guys.

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11 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

 

- T1+2: Lets not bother with that

- T3: Basicly as above, but also its constantly playing against multiple CVs without any AA. This is pretty much a given. Being an XP pinata = not much fun in my book.

 

It's the common mantra that anything below tier IV isn't fun, average 'for fun' players hear this and move up a tier or two, find themselves out of their depth and it isn't fun anymore, so they 'invest' in tier VIII premium ships in the hope of having fun, and then it becomes less fun for both themselves and other players on their team.

 

But could things change if somebody came up with a guide for 'How to have FUN in low tier games!', and not the constant downplaying of low tiers? Or to put it another way, if in the past it was managed properly rather than looked down upon 'the community' should be now be talking about how to prise players away from the fun low tiers and get them to move up. You are describing a problem that has been created as much by the community as by Wargaming, and then highlighting other tiers as 'more or less' fun simply cements this. There are people playing who have fun in each and every tier, either specialising in one tier or spreading themselves around a bit. And they may be in a minority but you don't hear from them because the game is fun and they are happy. It's their brains you need to pick to discover where the fun comes from and how to promote it, not rehash where fun is supposed to be absent.

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Yesterday I had an Iron Duke on my team which decided to sail full broadside to a Scharnhorst and another BB and got promptly blapped. We won anyway, but when I advised him (wasn't being sarcastic, it was genuine advice, the guy was just at t5 so I figured, maybe he doesn't know) to learn about armor angling for future reference, he said that he prefers sailing broadside because "it looks cool" and "what does it matter it's just a game and we're winning anyway".

 

Yes, we were winning, but he's highly likely to repeat this where him dying will cost his team the game. Does he spend a single minute thinking that there might be 11 other people on his team, some of which might have invested a lot of skill and effort into carrying the match, and might not appreciate him throwing it because "it looks cool"? It's dumb, and selfish, and people like that make the game less enjoyable, period.

 

There always seems to be this clash between people who take things more competitively (the learning, doing well, and winning is fun mindset) vs. the "dude it's just a game I just want to shoot s**t and look at pretty explosions" mind set. And no, I don't think there's a justification for the latter; there's plenty of other games where you can casually blow stuff up as the game is telling you how amazing you are, without ruining the fun of 11 other people. If you're super casual, why go for a team based pvp mode? There's coop, scenarios, and other games. I will never understand the "just having fun, it's just a game, what does it matter I just threw a game you worked really hard for" people.

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9 minutes ago, Captain_Newman said:

There always seems to be this clash between people who take things more competitively (the learning, doing well, and winning is fun mindset) vs. the "dude it's just a game I just want to shoot s**t and look at pretty explosions" mind set. And no, I don't think there's a justification for the latter; there's plenty of other games where you can casually blow stuff up as the game is telling you how amazing you are, without ruining the fun of 11 other people. If you're super casual, why go for a team based pvp mode? There's coop, scenarios, and other games. I will never understand the "just having fun, it's just a game, what does it matter I just threw a game you worked really hard for" people. 

 

I so agree on this one. Anyone, that joins a multiplayer/team game should always do his best. If you dont care, play a single player game. Easy as that.

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11 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

Firstofall, no, this isnt a thread about insulting people who "play 4 fun" so if you were interested in that, you thought wrong :Smile_hiding:

 

So, what i was thinking about today, inspired by this thread

was, how do we play WoWs?
Do we play for fun, or do we mostly grind with occasionally~ having fun? And, which one is actually "better"?

 

Shouldnt we play to have fun? Ofc that would be the ideal situation. But does it work in WoWs? Personaly, i dont think it does. And i feel, a lot of players agree with this lately, simply by reading the forums.

Lets say, you get home from work/school or whatever, and you have time to play 30mins/1h to play WoWs (or anything else for that matter). So you can play like 2-4 games. How likely is it, that you are actually getting frustrated? Lately, id say its very likely due to various reasons.

Having fun is ofc really down to what you prefer on a personal level, what is fun for one person, might not be fun for the other. But im pretty sure, there is something in this game for everyone to dislike.

Now lets say, if i want to have fun, i could play WoWs or start any other game i have and like. Wouldnt it make more sense to play something else, where im sure ill be having fun, as compared to play WoWs, where i have a good chance to have an unpleasant game?

 

Now lets look at the other option, playing for the grind:

If i wanna grind something, i have a goal. If i can advance towards that goal, even while having a bad game, it actually feels less bad (if you can follow that logic).

However, is this a good way to make a game? I guess this is up for debate...

 

Lets go back to playing for fun and getting frustrated, as having fun should be the main objective while playing a game. is it for WoWs? after today and thinking about it, im not even sure anymore.

So we constantly see people being frustrated with the game. It ranges from teammates over CVs to HE spamming. Often we tell them "git gud or l2p or adapt" But does it make sense? To a certain degree yes, but i think there are limits.

 

Ill just write my personal view up here, hopefully, i wont get attacked for it because there is no reason to attack someone for how they feel *hint*. Lets say, i wanna play some WoWs just to have fun:

 

- T1+2: Lets not bother with that

- T3: Basicly as above, but also its constantly playing against multiple CVs without any AA. This is pretty much a given. Being an XP pinata = not much fun in my book.

- T4: Now it gets more interesting, but we still have the problem of multi CVs - all the time. While you can somewhat defend against CVs by dodging and what not, but its not fun to have it all the time. Actually i think, this is true for all tiers. Couple of days ago i actually played 10 games, which i rarely do these days, but wanted to get the directives done. And even tho i played hightier all the time, there were CVs in almost every game. Now, its ok to have it occasionally (much like RTS CVs) but having it all the time fills up your frustration level.

- T5: Maybe a sweetspot these days, even tho you are still in multi CV territory, which also puts strains onto certain ships/classes *cough DDs*.

- T6: TBH, never really liked it. Even worse nowadays, as it seems to get into T8 MM more frequently, which is pretty horrible.

- T7: used to be my favourite, but now we are getting into useless hightier teammate tiers, which has its own issues.

- T8-10: Just reinforcing the useless teammates who have no idea how to play. Even playing in 3x Unicum Division, this starts to be stressful, which kinda defeats the purpose of having fun :cap_hmm: Lets use the 10 game example from earlier, we played TX to help 1 with directives, and our DD player started to get a headache after few rounds because of the stress level: Constantly CVs, potato teammates dying in few minutes and other stuff imaginable (stupid enemies rushing in for no reason, but getting you almost killed in the process for example).

 

- Coop: Not really fun in my book, i do it mostly for missions. And i have to say, the way the bots act lately is really annoying (showing broadside if you have HE, but take AP they angle or they run away from you...)

 

- Operations: Really liked those, even playing some with 4 guys because its hard but doable. But WG is not interested in those, which really was a bummer for me. I was hoping for Dynamo + the others and new ones. The halloween OPs werent really fun to me, because you needed a group of decent people, but the rewards were kinda crap? It was only a one-time thing basicly, why keep playing it? Thats bad design imo.

 

- Events like Twilight or others: Yeah, they offer something different, which can be ok for a while. Earlier this year, the DD thingy i liked a lot (forgot the name) because it was fast paced :Smile_playing: The Benham grind mode was also OK, but it was boring because you _had to play_ more for the Benham.

 

- Ranked: ok thats worse than Randoms :Smile_hiding:

 

- CBs: Used to like em more, now with Russian Bias + Power Creep i dont enjoy them as much. Basicly because of powercreep, im forced to grind more to stay ontop. And Because of Work and WG never changing ANYTHING regarding times, i often can only play 1-2 or max 3 days per week at best. And not necessarily even the entire duration, because suddenly we have to play 8v8 which makes it harder for some clans (ours too). Having a life outside of WoWs is clearly not allowed :fish_haloween:

- Clan Brawl: Awesome, but again, overlaps often with my workschedule and its only available couple of times per year.

 

So what should i play for fun? Its not about having to deal with CVs/Radars/BBs sniping from maxrange/ HE spamming/*insert what you feel like*... its having one or more of those EVERY GAME !! At some point, you get to your frustration level, and if you keep hitting that all the time, you start to think: why bother anymore? Its a constant gamble: If i pick DD, will i get one or more CVs, and will he go for me? being focused by a noob CV all game long IS NOT FUN even if you win in the end. Winning is somewhat fun, but i prefer having tight games and actually being able to play. Rolfstomps are lame either way, because you are not allowed to play the game, which kinda defeats the purpose of playing a game.

 

And the other gamble is: What will my teammates do? I even concluded today: BBs that shoot from maxrange might do this, because its actually fun for them? I mean, i can certainly understand that if we look at the average player. He cant cope with the threats of DDs/CVs/HE spam. So in order to "enjoy" the game a little longer, he sits as far away as possible, so he wont just die early one. Understandable? I think it actually is.

Now ill add something into this, which makes it even more spicy:

Some of your teammates are trying to have fun any way possible for them (like the BBs sniping from maxrange) and you get those players in there, which like to do their stupid missions, like get 5 spotted ribbons on TX. Pick a DD, yolo in, mission done.

If we look at this, its no wonder that people keep whining about MM. MM cant know why people play the way they do. Some wanna do their missions *their way*, others play so they can have fun, which might differ from our own view.

 

Ok how to fix this?

Literally no idea. I think, thats how WoWs is, and it wont ever change. WG will do their own thing, we have to take it. And if you play to have fun/relax or do missions - doesnt matter, as you WILL get forced to play with others who are doing the opposite what you are trying to achieve.

One way ofc would be, to get other gamemodes going, maybe even with smaller teams, and being able to influence with whom you play, maybe even allowing some basic rewards and completing of missions. Lets be honest, i could just go playing in the training room, but i can hardly for 2 dozen other people in there aswell, who dont want to play that. But they might be willing to play if they get rewards/missions.

Ive basicly thought about a gamemode, much like randoms, but you can join a lobby first, and if there are enough people around, the game will start but the teams will be randomly distributed. This wouldnt matter much, if you could choose with whom you wanna play or not, like only playing with >55% WR people or so. Also i think, giving rewards for that wouldnt matter much. Hardcore rigging could easily be detected, and even if, rigging the game so 1 or 2 people profit from it doesnt make much sense, since you would need 24 players total, and 22 of those dont do anything. So you dont "gain" anything by that, since you still need the time to cycle through everyone.

 

TL;DR?

Puh, dunno really...

Playing WoWs just for fun doesnt seem viable, because too much frustrating stuff is around in every game you start. So playing to grind first seems to make more sense, but is bad for the game.

I’ve not been able to manage a single clan brawl due to work. 

 

WG really need to look at spreading events about further rather than ramming them down our throats. That’ll help somewhat as you won’t feel pressured to try and achieve lots in a super short time before the next one. Game burnout is a thing and if WG are not careful they will lose more player due to it.

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4 minutes ago, Bear_Necessities said:

I’ve not been able to manage a single clan brawl due to work. 

 

I so hope you and @DFens_666 can play the next 4x4 clan brawl and dont have to work. Thats gonna be hilarious :D

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12 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

Playing WoWs just for fun doesnt seem viable, because too much frustrating stuff is around in every game you start. So playing to grind first seems to make more sense, but is bad for the game.

Right now this is how I feel.

 

Whatever game I play, I play for fun, but always do my best to win. Sadly of late that means my WoWS gaming time has been sporadic and I mostly try to play with clanmates. The game is just frustrating at times, yes we get given a lot of stuff for free, but a lot of content is now locked behind a grind wall, with loot boxes that give you a chance to progress faster.

The back to back CB / ranked seasons is relentless. I don't play ranked, it just looks too stressful and frustrating. I see lots of WoWS player getting burned out

The CV rework was a disaster - pre and post rework CV gameplay pitches your luck through RNG against the CV players skill. Whilst I applaud the good CV players skill, there is no fun in waiting for your luck to run out, from a determined CV onslaught.

The competitive modes are being dominated by premium boats, especially when anything other than T9 or 10 is selected for a season. And every season it feels like a new boat is released at the competitive mode tier that is a little more OP than the last offering at the same tier, giving us power creep.

That falls into random games and silver lines fall behind. I find it quite funny and telling, that after months of new players coming to the forum, saying that a silver boat needs a buff or is unplayable, too have been shot down in flames by vet players saying git gud its you not the boat, things suddenly start to change when the NTC arrived. Now we have vet players coming through saying ok this boat doesn't play like it used to when I ground it out way back when, its not viable and needs a buff.

 

I now play for the friends I have made, and I only have 2 T10 boats but I'm wondering if it's actually worth bothering to grind above T8 anymore, given the apparent shift to P2W in T9 and 10

 

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