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Aldramelech

Punished because my ISP decided to shut down my connection for maintenance

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Playing happily today and had just started a match when my internet went down. Phoned my ISP and was told essential maintenance was being carried out. Got home from work, logged in and I've been punished for something not in my control. I have never been AFK in all my time since being in the closed beta, this happens once and I get spanked? Seems a bit trigger happy to me. Is it a big deal? Not really but there is a principle involved, I am being called unsporting, well I ain't happy with that at all. 

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Happened to most of us. 

No big deal. Punishment isnt harsh, so what. 

Just game on 

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Nothing to worry about. And if it is that big of an issue for you, you'd best inform Customer Support instead of the forums as you get more out of it.

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Wargamings System with Putting People Pink and Marking them as Offender Publicly has been Questionable since the Start.

Unfortunately the vast Majority of the Players will Defend that System. Many of them Thinking that whoever got Pink Deserved so and thus Dismissing their Opinions regardless of any Logic or Argument.

 

Its a System that is Completely Faiplaced and more often than not will Mark People as Offenders when they have not really done anything to Deserve that Status.

But as long as the Vast Majority of the Community Accepts it without Condemning it. You wont Change it.

 

Sad. But as so often in Reality. The Unwashed Masses Prefer to Polish the Turd they know rather than trying to Replace it with something they dont.

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1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

Wargamings System with Putting People Pink and Marking them as Offender Publicly has been Questionable since the Start.

Unfortunately the vast Majority of the Players will Defend that System. Many of them Thinking that whoever got Pink Deserved so and thus Dismissing their Opinions regardless of any Logic or Argument.

 

Its a System that is Completely Faiplaced and more often than not will Mark People as Offenders when they have not really done anything to Deserve that Status.

But as long as the Vast Majority of the Community Accepts it without Condemning it. You wont Change it.

 

Sad. But as so often in Reality. The Unwashed Masses Prefer to Polish the Turd they know rather than trying to Replace it with something they dont.

And some people seem to take huge offence to a system that doesn't really do more than make you look pink if you aren't doing anything too crazy. While using a lot of capital letters doing so. I think for an automated system it works quite well. It doesn't punish people when they behave and doesn't punish people too hard when something outside the normal business happens. Only when something repeatedly happens does the system punish you harshly. If you keep getting disconnected for long periodes outside WG's power, then you are essentially letting your team down for every battle you are joining and not playing in. Might not be your fault but it certainly is not WG or the other player's fault so you get punished. And that is ok.

 

And in the case it is WG's fault of you repeatedly getting punished because of WG mistakes, you can contact WG CS, which is quite good and solves stuff fast. But I never heard of people getting punished harshly by the system because of repeated errors caused by WG. So all is good.

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2 hours ago, FukushuNL said:

And some people seem to take huge offence to a system that doesn't really do more than make you look pink if you aren't doing anything too crazy. While using a lot of capital letters doing so. I think for an automated system it works quite well. It doesn't punish people when they behave and doesn't punish people too hard when something outside the normal business happens. Only when something repeatedly happens does the system punish you harshly. If you keep getting disconnected for long periodes outside WG's power, then you are essentially letting your team down for every battle you are joining and not playing in. Might not be your fault but it certainly is not WG or the other player's fault so you get punished. And that is ok.

 

And in the case it is WG's fault of you repeatedly getting punished because of WG mistakes, you can contact WG CS, which is quite good and solves stuff fast. But I never heard of people getting punished harshly by the system because of repeated errors caused by WG. So all is good.

 

Its Funny.

Whenever People have Arguments and Actually Discuss something with me using a Reasonable Chain of Logic. They never ever bother to even Mention my Person or my Writing Style.

Yet whenever someone has neither a Chain of Logical Assertions nor any Argument he himself beliefs to be Valid. He Immediately Complains about my Personality, My Writing Style or whatever else he can find on me that is entirely Irrelevant to the Topic but involves something he can throw at my Head.

 

I wonder why People are always so Eager to Defend something they themselves cannot even find a Good enough Argument for that they dont feel the Need to Attack their Opponent Personally.....

 

 

1.

Thats Factually Wrong.

The System does Punish People despite behaving Properly.

Because being Pink and thus being Shamed in Public for something that was out of your Power to Change is a Punishment in itself.

In case you did not Know. But in Fact Public Shaming is such a Harsh Punishment that some Countries even Outlawed it as it can Ruin Peoples Lives and Changes how others Interact with you.

 

This is less Severe in the Game where your Hidden by your Nickname of Course. But actually alot of People especially People who dont know how Faulty the System is. Will in Fact Change their Behavior towards you when you are Pink.

 

2.

If People actually misbehave the System actually way too Often does not Catch them at all.

Which is Pretty Normal. Because the System does not actually Punish Misbehavior.

It Punishes Damage on Teammates no matter the Circumstances. And it Punishes you Leaving the Battle without Dying before its Over. Also regardless of the Circumstances.

 

And it not being within WGs Power is actually not an Excuse for that System to Malfunction. Because something as Simple as a Crosspoint in the Internet Servers having Trouble and thus Repeatedly Disconnecting People inside a Certain Region causes this System to Wildly Ban People from the Servers. This actually Malfunctioned just Recently so Badly that WG Manually Removed Punishments from those who Reported their Demise in the Forums due to the System having Failed Completely without any Fault on the Players :)

 

It does for example not Punish if you Just Yolo to Die Fast and Leave. It also does not Punish if you Block Teammates so they get Killed. It does actually Punish the Innocent Person when you on Purpose Stalk an Allied Battleship and Constantly Drive up into its Guns to make it hit your Superstructure while its Aimed in on an Enemy. :)

 

3.

No Offense. But the Fact that you can Appeal to WG for their System being Faulty and getting the Harsher Penalties Removed is not an Excuse. Its an Pitiful Testament to how Broken the System is :)

Because you get Punished Repeatedly and then have to waste your own Free Time to Explain to WG that their System made Mistakes to get them to Remove the Punishment :)

 

4.

And then there is Abuse of the System. People can actually Ram you to get Pink if they manage to take enough Damage Especially when they are Low Health Themselves and can get themselves Killed.

And worse. Once your Pink even if it was by Mistake. Others can Abuse that. For example by Ramming themselves to Death at your Ship. Which will Deal Damage to you. And on Top Worsen your Punishment for the Teamkill while your Pink.

Not mentioning the more Standard Methods of Intercepting Friendly Torpedoes with a Fast Destroyer or as described above. Constantly on Purpose Driving in Front of Friendly Ships while they are Aimed in at an Enemy to make them Hit your Superstructure.

 

 

So Long Story Short.

The System will Punish Players that did Nothing Wrong.

The System will can actually be easily Abused to Punish People on Purpose even if they did Nothing Wrong.

The System is easy to Avoid because it Only Punishes certain Results rather than Actions and thus you can "Misbehave" very Easily without any Consequences.

The System on Top is causes Misunderstandings and Reputation Issues by Marking People as Offender regardless of them actually having done anything Wrong or Not.

 

This is the Kind of System you tend to have in Countries like North Korea my Friend.

In any Democratic Nation this kind of System would never be Accepted because it Assumes Guilty to Proven Innocent. :)

 

 

 

But Hey.

I already had this Discussion Several Times.

I know that Nothing will Change your Mind.

 

You will keep Polishing it. Over. And Over. And Over.

Nothing will Convince you to Stop. Nothing will Convince you it Stinks.

 

Thats Why I am going to not Go any Further with this :)

It would be a Waste of Time.

 

So Have Fun ;)

 

Greetz Sun.

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13 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

In any Democratic Nation this kind of System would never be Accepted because it Assumes Guilty to Proven Innocent

Very interesting statement maybe you will enlighten me.

As far as I know in Japan you are guilty until proven otherwise. It tends to end up in more than 90% of cases end up in defence failing to defend. I understand in your opinion Japan is not democratic country?

 

Additionally I was never marked pink by system if I have not done anything wrong. So in my case system works perfectly well. And I have not seen anyone being marked pink when they did not deserve it.

 

OP has clearly stated that he abandon the battle as far as I know that is punishable offence.

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3 Posts and it gets Political.

It really should be stated again beeing pink is a warning for unsporting Conduct.

The Warning was issued for something out of his control. Thats sad but not unheared of. There are no real resitrictions on the Account except for shooting your own team now is bad. *shrug*

Chin up it will go by :)

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Wargaming provide the servers, so they can set the rules. Nothing to do with democracy, politics or law enforcement.

Also the rules seem to be very simple:

1. stay in the game until end or sunk.

2. don't shoot/torpedo/bomb green ships.

break either of these and turn pink.

 

Simples!

 

Oh and OP, ISPs don't do essential maintenance without notifying you first. It's like the electricity people send a card before they turn the power off for repair.

 

Anyway Pink is cool:cap_cool:

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28 minutes ago, Sir_Grzegorz said:

Very interesting statement maybe you will enlighten me.

As far as I know in Japan you are guilty until proven otherwise. It tends to end up in more than 90% of cases end up in defence failing to defend. I understand in your opinion Japan is not democratic country?

 

Additionally I was never marked pink by system if I have not done anything wrong. So in my case system works perfectly well. And I have not seen anyone being marked pink when they did not deserve it.

 

OP has clearly stated that he abandon the battle as far as I know that is punishable offence.

 

1.

Please Read up on the Japanese Justice System.

Because what your Stating is Factually Wrong. In Japan just like in any other Democratic Nation. You are Innocent till Proven Guilty.

 

The Claim it is not like that stems from the Headline of a Report over Japan Criminal Justice System as it tends to Attempt and get Confessions by telling People they would be Found Guilty Anyways and thus Offer them a lesser Punishment if they Plead Guilty and Spare the State the Trial. And also because it might mean you can go Home Immediately and thus not Lose your Job due to being Absent for several Weeks.

 

It is actually Extremely Similar to the American Justice System where this Practice is done as well and has also been the cause of Critics. Because just like in Japan. Many Accused in the USA also Plead Guilty not because they Committed a Crime. But because not Pleading Guilty will get them Detained for Weeks of Interrogation and their Boss will Fire them as they dont Show up for Work.

 

Funny enough. Outside of the Headline that Documentary never actually made the Claim of Japan having a Justice System where you are Guilty till Proven Innocent.

It merely used that Headline to Draw Attention for the Issue....

It was Reasoned by saying that the Prosecutors treat you as Guilty till your "Found" not "Proven" Innocent. Which can happen by lack of Evidence for you Guilt.

But the Prosecutors are not the Judges. Their Opinions on your Guilt do not make you Guilty. They have to Prove your Guilty. Otherwise your Innocent. Which is the Whole Reason why they go so Far to Obtain a Confession.

Without the Confession their Evidence often Runs Pretty thin. And Losing the Case is a Pretty Shameful Result for them in Japan.

 

2.

Then your Blind. Because just Recently a Server Outage in Germany caused Half of the German Community to get Pink and those who didnt Realize what happened even got Confined to Coop or Banned because they tought it was just a Single Disconnect and then got Disconnected right again in the Next Battle. 

Caused quite a Stir. No Idea how you could Miss that. But then again if you claim you never saw someone being Pink undeserved then from the beginning you seem to be not paying Attention enough to be an Reliable Observer for that.

 

3.

Incorrect. He was Kicked from the Battle because his ISP Decided to Cut his Internet Connection.

By the Way. You also get Pink if the ISP of WGs Server Decides to do that. Or really any Point in between you and WGs Server.

 

I Sincerely Hope it Never Happens to you. Otherwise you would Surely Blame Yourself for your Unsportsmanship Behavior of Daring to be Kicked from the Match against your Will......

 

 

 

However. I already Said more than I wanted to.

I didnt even want to Answer this Topic anymore.

But that Piece about Japan had to be Answered at least.

 

No more so.

This is my Last Post in this Topic.

Have Fun Guys.

 

21 minutes ago, The_Reichtangle said:

3 Posts and it gets Political.

It really should be stated again beeing pink is a warning for unsporting Conduct.

The Warning was issued for something out of his control. Thats sad but not unheared of. There are no real resitrictions on the Account except for shooting your own team now is bad. *shrug*

Chin up it will go by :)

 

Joke is. I only Said that as a small Side Remark.

I didnt Expect it to Draw such a Wave from Someone.....

 

But No.

Being Pink is a Public Shaming of a Person. And thus a Punishment.

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13 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

I didnt Expect it to Draw such a Wave from Someone.....

Dude, you can't just drop a statement dripping with arrogance like "the unwashed masses prefer to polish the turd (...)", and expect people, or the unwashed masses as you prefer to call them, to cheer you on. That's people skills 101, really.

 

Not judging, just saying.

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Accidentally going pink isn't even a slap on the bottom, although on this forum I'm sure some people wish it was, and harder.

 

It is just one of the everyday rules in a society that keeps it running smoothly, like a 'No Entry' sign at the end of a one-way-street, or standing orderly in the queue to get into the Justin Bieber concert. It doesn't hurt you, it doesn't give you a criminal record, and in most cases it is turning pink for an in-game accident or connection error, it was out of your control, just like you'll claim you thought you were queuing for Slipknot.

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2 hours ago, Sunleader said:

1.

So you claim you are guilty, you are sentenced, and you keep your job?

What document did you watch?

2 hours ago, Sunleader said:

2.

I was reffering to my games. I have no idea what happened in games of other people, unless I have seen replay.

Calling me blind just because it is to hard to you to understand written English is a bit strange.

2 hours ago, Sunleader said:

3.

Please provide part of rules that says you will be not punished if DC is not your fault.

As you stated even if WG server fails, people are getting pink. That is according to rules of the game.

If such thing happen to me, then it will be not my fault, but punishment will be deserved (rules are rules).

You have to take under consideration that other players do not care why you DC, just that you are AFK.

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3 hours ago, Sunleader said:

 

Its Funny.

Whenever People have Arguments and Actually Discuss something with me using a Reasonable Chain of Logic. They never ever bother to even Mention my Person or my Writing Style.

Yet whenever someone has neither a Chain of Logical Assertions nor any Argument he himself beliefs to be Valid. He Immediately Complains about my Personality, My Writing Style or whatever else he can find on me that is entirely Irrelevant to the Topic but involves something he can throw at my Head.

 

I wonder why People are always so Eager to Defend something they themselves cannot even find a Good enough Argument for that they dont feel the Need to Attack their Opponent Personally.....

 

 

1.

Thats Factually Wrong.

The System does Punish People despite behaving Properly.

Because being Pink and thus being Shamed in Public for something that was out of your Power to Change is a Punishment in itself.

In case you did not Know. But in Fact Public Shaming is such a Harsh Punishment that some Countries even Outlawed it as it can Ruin Peoples Lives and Changes how others Interact with you.

 

This is less Severe in the Game where your Hidden by your Nickname of Course. But actually alot of People especially People who dont know how Faulty the System is. Will in Fact Change their Behavior towards you when you are Pink.

 

2.

If People actually misbehave the System actually way too Often does not Catch them at all.

Which is Pretty Normal. Because the System does not actually Punish Misbehavior.

It Punishes Damage on Teammates no matter the Circumstances. And it Punishes you Leaving the Battle without Dying before its Over. Also regardless of the Circumstances.

 

And it not being within WGs Power is actually not an Excuse for that System to Malfunction. Because something as Simple as a Crosspoint in the Internet Servers having Trouble and thus Repeatedly Disconnecting People inside a Certain Region causes this System to Wildly Ban People from the Servers. This actually Malfunctioned just Recently so Badly that WG Manually Removed Punishments from those who Reported their Demise in the Forums due to the System having Failed Completely without any Fault on the Players :)

 

It does for example not Punish if you Just Yolo to Die Fast and Leave. It also does not Punish if you Block Teammates so they get Killed. It does actually Punish the Innocent Person when you on Purpose Stalk an Allied Battleship and Constantly Drive up into its Guns to make it hit your Superstructure while its Aimed in on an Enemy. :)

 

3.

No Offense. But the Fact that you can Appeal to WG for their System being Faulty and getting the Harsher Penalties Removed is not an Excuse. Its an Pitiful Testament to how Broken the System is :)

Because you get Punished Repeatedly and then have to waste your own Free Time to Explain to WG that their System made Mistakes to get them to Remove the Punishment :)

 

4.

And then there is Abuse of the System. People can actually Ram you to get Pink if they manage to take enough Damage Especially when they are Low Health Themselves and can get themselves Killed.

And worse. Once your Pink even if it was by Mistake. Others can Abuse that. For example by Ramming themselves to Death at your Ship. Which will Deal Damage to you. And on Top Worsen your Punishment for the Teamkill while your Pink.

Not mentioning the more Standard Methods of Intercepting Friendly Torpedoes with a Fast Destroyer or as described above. Constantly on Purpose Driving in Front of Friendly Ships while they are Aimed in at an Enemy to make them Hit your Superstructure.

 

 

So Long Story Short.

The System will Punish Players that did Nothing Wrong.

The System will can actually be easily Abused to Punish People on Purpose even if they did Nothing Wrong.

The System is easy to Avoid because it Only Punishes certain Results rather than Actions and thus you can "Misbehave" very Easily without any Consequences.

The System on Top is causes Misunderstandings and Reputation Issues by Marking People as Offender regardless of them actually having done anything Wrong or Not.

 

This is the Kind of System you tend to have in Countries like North Korea my Friend.

In any Democratic Nation this kind of System would never be Accepted because it Assumes Guilty to Proven Innocent. :)

 

 

 

But Hey.

I already had this Discussion Several Times.

I know that Nothing will Change your Mind.

 

You will keep Polishing it. Over. And Over. And Over.

Nothing will Convince you to Stop. Nothing will Convince you it Stinks.

 

Thats Why I am going to not Go any Further with this :)

It would be a Waste of Time.

 

So Have Fun ;)

 

Greetz Sun.

That's a looooooooooong piece of text saying exectly nothing xD And the real funny thing is that it's mostly you, Sun, that I disagree with. Didn't even pay attention to the one I was quoting before, but now I noticed xD I would like to throw this on an "agree to disagree", but as usual you are just pulling all kinds of things that have nothing to do with the discussion in the mix. 

 

For instance, what does public shaming to do with being pink? Nobody in this game cares anymore if you are pink or not. Everyone has gone through being that color already as everyone already has killed a teammate or had a disconnect from the start. Nowadays it refreshingly colorful to see some pink next to the green and yellow of team and div members.

 

Secondly no system is perfect and can be gamed. As such one could find a way to get away without being pink and still get to the port rather fast. One can always find a way. Doesn't mean the system doesn't do it job 99% of the time. And yes, systems sometimes malfunction, but it falls perfectly within parameters the amount of times WG systems malfunctions. And the rare occasion something does happen, people (even those that aren't troubled by the issue) get treated very nicely by WG for their troubles.

 

Again, every system all over the world can and does fail from time to time and WG systems fall well within parameters concerning failures and if something else happens they got a customer service for the unique issues that sparcely happen. Like every other company in the world. Nothing strange here.

 

For your 4th point, again, yes people can abuse everything. Does that happen? Barely. So is it needed to bring something up only a handful people sometimes do or have the opportunity to do? No. Should I not fly planes or drive cars just because there is a chance people purposely want to crash into me? Is therefor the system broken? No, because only a handful people take advantage of the system.

 

So long story short, technically everything can happen with anything everywhere. Does it? No. What is the amount of people that actively game the ingame punishment system? As good as non existent, let alone noticable. 

 

And dude/miss, what the h***? xD Where did you pull North Korea from? 

 

Also, and I tell you this as a fellow WoWs community member in all the goodwill in the world, drop the amount of capital letters. It doesn't make an already long text with no content much easier to read and it doesn't make others take you more serious either.

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Leave politics of any kind out of the discussion, please.

 

Also please try to be constructive. Arguing about a host of unrelated topics won't score anyone extra internet brownie points.

 

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16 hours ago, Aldramelech said:

Playing happily today and had just started a match when my internet went down. Phoned my ISP and was told essential maintenance was being carried out. Got home from work, logged in and I've been punished for something not in my control. I have never been AFK in all my time since being in the closed beta, this happens once and I get spanked? Seems a bit trigger happy to me. Is it a big deal? Not really but there is a principle involved, I am being called unsporting, well I ain't happy with that at all. 

Whilst I agree that getting pink when it was not even your fault is bad, there is little that can be done about it. The system can't know if it was done on purpose or if you internet is kaputt.

 

Would it be nice if it did? Yes, but such a thing is next to impossible to do.  

 

This happened once to me also, was in a game when my pc rebooted itself without my explicit consent. Never found out why my rig rebooted itself, since it has behaved itself since that one time.

 

A few battles in co-op, and your good to go again.

 

 

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On 11/14/2019 at 2:14 AM, Molly_Delaney said:

Oh and OP, ISPs don't do essential maintenance without notifying you first. It's like the electricity people send a card before they turn the power off for repair.

 

Anyway Pink is cool:cap_cool:

Actually ISP's do do essential maintenance without notifying you first. It's happened to me several times.

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Do know who was really punished and the real victims? There were your 11 teammates (if it was a random battle). They had to play a 20 minutes (?) with 1 teammember less. That were those 12 enemy players that had to play  an 20 minutes (?)  battle that was unequal.

 

That were the real victims. You...you were only pink for a few games.

 

Who is weeping for those 23 people? Maybe they suffered badly. :fish_glass:

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45 minutes ago, Todger_Fairmile said:

Actually ISP's do do essential maintenance without notifying you first. It's happened to me several times.

In the terms of use of most ISPs in my area is a clause that guarantees an uptime of 96+ % per year (number may vary per ISP) for that reason and for unforseeable circumstances. It leaves them some room to shut down their service for maintenance if they have to.

 

Fortunatly their service uptime is far exceeding that percentage number, as they could shut down their service for up two weeks and still fullfill their contract. Not sure how that is handled in other countries but I am sure that there are some terms in the contract that allow those ISPs to do similar things if they have to.

 

@Aldramelech and anyone else who thinks WG is somehow to blame

Wargaming is not at fault for downtimes caused by your ISP. They have no influence there. Their system can not discern between an ISP shutdown, you restarting your router, pulling the plug on your computer, or most other things that can cause a disconnection to the server. It is almost impossible to program a tool. All the server recognizes is that you are no longer in the battle and that you did not return before it ended.

The server can not know where in the long line of potential fault points the error lies. For that to work the whole network between you and the game servers would need to be provided by WG with a constant surveilance tool running health check on the routers in between. They would essentially become your ISP.

And then a power failure at your home, you simply pulling the plug, or shutting down the PC could still cause you to lose connection. How is the server to know which of those happened? There is always a scenario that can not be covered by Wargaming. So treating everone who leaves the battle early for whatever reason is the fairest thing they can do.

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On 11/14/2019 at 12:06 AM, Aldramelech said:

Playing happily today and had just started a match when my internet went down. Phoned my ISP and was told essential maintenance was being carried out. Got home from work, logged in and I've been punished for something not in my control. I have never been AFK in all my time since being in the closed beta, this happens once and I get spanked? Seems a bit trigger happy to me. Is it a big deal? Not really but there is a principle involved, I am being called unsporting, well I ain't happy with that at all. 

Not exactly a life changing catastrophe, lets hope you dont encounter anything worse

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