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How does a Shimakaze deal with a CV attack?

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I am looking for advice on how to deal with this, my experience so far is that there is nothing I can do to combat it besides running to back of map. So, what are my doing wrong? Clearly I am missing some game mechanic that I do not understand properly because WG are not idiots and they would not design a class that cannot be countered in a meaningful way. 

So, how do I skillfully outplay a CV that is attacking me in my shima? Any help would be appreciated, thanks

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2 minutes ago, arctic_k said:

I am looking for advice on how to deal with this, my experience so far is that there is nothing I can do to combat it besides running to back of map. So, what are my doing wrong? Clearly I am missing some game mechanic that I do not understand properly because WG are not idiots and they would not design a class that cannot be countered in a meaningful way. 

So, how do I skillfully outplay a CV that is attacking me in my shima? Any help would be appreciated, thanks

  • do not get spotted in the first place
  • watch where the planes go
  • choose a less direct routes to caps
  • when the planes come your way, evade, sometimes planes miss spotting you by a 100m, therefore evasion is important
  • if he spots you, try to evade his attacks while moving towards ships with strong AA
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The short answer is you don't.

 

The longer answer is

 

1. Don't rush forward in a CV game

2. Wait to see where the planes are congregating.

3. Don't go there

4. He will get fed up looking for you and switch to other targets

5. Go about your business while he is doing that but keep an eye on his plane lanes

6. Stay away from them

7. You don't have ANY defense against a CV that wants you apart from smoking up until he goes away

8. Play accordingly to 7

 

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Hope he is incompetent. If he isn't your dead. If he is...

 

Then make sure not to blindly rush forward

 

Look at team positions

 

engage when possible

 

turn AA off as its useless and wont save you (helps CV's aim and kill you faster).

 

smoke allows you to stop a CV from accuratly target you and kill you.

 

these things only apply to a cv average and below in skill terms.

 

good, very good and above cv players. r.i.p fam.

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Disable your AA.

Only enable it if you are spotted anyway.

 

Don't run off alone.

See that you stay near a friendly cruiser or BB that can provide AA cover for you.

 

Hide yourself.

A smokescreen might let the CV know the general area you are in, but as long as you do not fire your guns the CV has to guess where in that smoke you might hide. That will give other ships time to kill the planes above you or the CV will give up outright for a better target.

 

Run.

If you see the planes coming your way, while you are still not spotted, try to evade them.

 

Change your combat area.

If the CV keeps attacking in the same area go somewhere else.

 

Don't forget your "O" key.

The AA focus even on a DD can deal quite a bit of damage to planes. Only use it once you are already spotted.

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Start slowly, see where the CV goes first. It's a lottery. If you are unlucky and the planes come your way, seek protection from friendlies or use your smoke. An attack can remove a good chunk of your hit points. 

 

Then is always the same, Big Brother will come back and will always watch you and follow you and make our life impossible.

 

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You can do plenty.

 

Keep your AA off until the planes will spot you guaranteed. If it is rocket planes you AA a bit and then turn it off again immediately going towards the rocket planes. This will often lead to him overshooting.

 

Should he have dropped fighters you smoke and keep AA on. Remember it is better to lose one smoke than half your HP.

 

Additionally if you put an island between yourself and the rocket planes that attack his aim goes up, the island can also block rockets. The only way to avoid it would be going all the way around which might not be feasible if you foiled some of his attack attempts already.

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38 minutes ago, arctic_k said:

Clearly I am missing some game mechanic that I do not understand properly because WG are not idiots and they would not design a class that cannot be countered in a meaningful way.

 

You're not.

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A semi-competent CV player will come for you if you are spotted or spend some time searching the usual dd hangouts until you're neutralized. I find AA cruisers very annoying at start of games so I avoid them (so living near them helps) but that doesn't last. Best bet is to remaining unseen for long enough so the battle progress will favor your advance (after an enemy flank collapses and the road is clear) but again a good CV player will guess a dd is leading the enemy advance and will come for you. Some of the other advice here is helpful if you have help from the team ( a AA cruiser near) and a good skill level. I kinda know the decent dds and inform on them in chat early on so the team can focus on them in case I miss. CVs need a bit of help from their team too it's not that one sided but still the odds are 80-20 against the dd usually. So pretty horrible.

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1 hour ago, Egoleter said:

Don't forget your "O" key.

The AA focus even on a DD can deal quite a bit of damage to planes. Only use it once you are already spotted.

 

First of all I strongly recommend remapping this key. Whoever thought "O" is an acceptable key to map in a game centered around WASD is clearly insane.

Second, this is actually a terrible idea in a lot of scenarios since RFs can easily cross the distance to your weaker side before SR fully ramps up, thus crippling your already poor AA defense. This is especially true if you've had your AA disabled and the squad is already on top of you. The instant damage is also almost completely useless due to a variety of reasons.

Therefore THINK before using SR.

 

Not that it actually does much, the difference is usually +1 plane shot down even in a lot of ships with "good" AA which is completely inconsequential given the vast reserves of reworked CVs, most of which field close to 100 strike aircraft in a full duration match.

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1 minute ago, El2aZeR said:

irst of all I strongly recommend remapping this key. Whoever thought "O" is an acceptable key to map in a game centered around WASD is clearly insane.

2nd default hotkey is tylde (`), next to "1". Why its not advertised by default is beyond me.

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3 hours ago, arctic_k said:

I am looking for advice on how to deal with this, my experience so far is that there is nothing I can do to combat it besides running to back of map. So, what are my doing wrong? Clearly I am missing some game mechanic that I do not understand properly because WG are not idiots and they would not design a class that cannot be countered in a meaningful way. 

So, how do I skillfully outplay a CV that is attacking me in my shima? Any help would be appreciated, thanks

 

You dont.

Currently you should basicly consider CVs as the Gods of Death in the Match.

If you do too good or happen to attract their ire they might decide you Die. And if that happens you will Die.

Nothing you can do about that. And nothing that will change that outside of your own Teams God ending the Game before the Enemy God can that is.

 

So.

 

If you have not yet been Attacked you try to stay Undetected. You Disable AA and try to not be Attacked in the First Place.

You attempt to not draw the attention of the Gods for as long as Possible by not getting Spotted as long as you can.

 

Once you have attracted the Attention of the Gods you can try to remain hidden for as long as possible costing the Gods a bit more Time.

Of course its Futile cause if the Gods wants to find you he will sooner or later find you. He can follow any Spotted Torps to your location way faster than you can relocate anyways.

But you can annoy the Gods a bit by costing them extra time.

 

As soon as you have been Found and are Unlucky enough that the Gods have decided that you should Die. You have very little option really.

You can basicly Pray and Beg for your Live. Or you can show Faith by Bending over and letting them have their way with you.

Or you can Struggle against Fate and keep evading for as long as possible so the Gods need more Torps/Bombs/Rockets to ensure your Death and maybe lose Interest and find someone who looks Tastier than you before they finish you.

 

If of course the Gods dont find anything more tasty or have decided that your death has to be done first. You will Die without any Question and you cant really do anything about it.

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2 hours ago, Bear_Necessities said:

You can’t, just pray they are a crap CV potato player.

 

Considering the actions of CVs I've seen in game recently, the chance to get a potato going for you is about as high as the % of potatoes in other classes (so >50%) and even a slightly more competent CV player might go looking for another target if one manages to dodge the first attempt to sink that Shima while losing several planes... At least that's how I recall it from playing my Shima.

 

Rarely meet CVs at T8+ battles though lately. And never really met one supposedly as competent as the CV specialists posting here.

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8 hours ago, Sunleader said:

 

You dont.

Currently you should basicly consider CVs as the Gods of Death in the Match.

More like replacement gods...

Most of them need more than half a match to sink a competent DD. Considering that they need more than half a match to find him, competent DD survive  against CV most of the time.

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Woaw! Geez guys,

you really like to have fun in CV related topics..

 

ok,

I've just cleaned up a lot.

OP asked a question.. Lets keep the topic about that..

Not specifically about shima though.

Almost all DDs, torp boats more than others, are effected by CVs.. may be the most...

So, If you have some advice to give.. please share...

If you gonna write "witty remarks" about the CV rework,

We have a 450+ pages topic floating around somewhere..

Thank you all..

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And now for my side..

When you are in a DD, If the CV wants you dead, or useless... they can achieve that..

How fast they can kill you, or how useless they can keep you is completely related to the Skill levels of the CV captain.

 

I've witnessed first hand, that @Rose_Dikinson
Dev striking a shima for around 10K, with Saipan Rocket planes.

 

That Shima was in the cap, trying to contest, dealing with a gearing at the same time, because he was dodging torpedoes coming into his smoke.

So.. I was a DD main... before 1.1.2019, now It looks like I'm going to be a BB main.... I guess thats how I deal with those guys.

 

But, from my side, I can only say "The best counter to a CV in a DD is - not to counter at all"

Run away, stay hidden, when they drop interest.. go elsewhere and try again.

Remember, Bad CV captains, they will chase you till the end of the map, that is a good thing.. not for you, but for your team.

That means that CV is wasting time with you. It is not easy for them to hit a running DD.

Good CV captains, will lose interest in you quickyl If you manage to escape. Because they know, they should keep dealing damage constantly to help their team.

Great CV captains on the other hand... there is usually no escaping from them in DDs... thank god there are only a few around.

 

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11 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

So, If you have some advice to give.. please share..

 

If CV wants you dead then the only option you have is how long it takes for him to kill you, if you can keep a skilled CV player occupied for 5 minutes or so whilst he could be killing something else on your team then you're probably shifting the WR% 10% or 20% in your favour.

 

 

 

And if that sounds like fun and engaging game design, well,.......... insert your own punchline.

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13 hours ago, GraySlayer said:

The short answer is you don't.

 

The longer answer is

 

1. Don't rush forward in a CV game

2. Wait to see where the planes are congregating.

3. Don't go there

4. He will get fed up looking for you and switch to other targets

5. Go about your business while he is doing that but keep an eye on his plane lanes

6. Stay away from them

7. You don't have ANY defense against a CV that wants you apart from smoking up until he goes away

8. Play accordingly to 7

 

that applies to ALL dd, not just shima...and by doing this - to stay alive - he actually allready achieved his goal by neutralizing yourself.

 

a competent cv player will allways come looking for you as soon as you start to cap.

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13 hours ago, arctic_k said:

So, how do I skillfully outplay a CV that is attacking me in my shima? Any help would be appreciated, thanks

 

You pray alot and smoke up.

 

You'll be doing a lot more of the former when you've run out of the latter.

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Oh btw,

14 hours ago, Egoleter said:

Don't run off alone.

See that you stay near a friendly cruiser or BB that can provide AA cover for you.

 

THIS is also terrible advice funnily enough.

Reason is quite simple, cruisers and BBs, even those that are supposed to have "good" AA, don't represent a significant obstacle to a (skilled) reworked CV due to even the strongest AA being a nuisance at best. If a CV knows you aren't anywhere close to the front lines (and they'll know since their planes get a detection warning just like ships), guess what they'll be doing? That's right, they'll start killing your cruisers and BBs. Since you're staying near them you will inevitably get spotted by chance, giving the enemy team intel on where you are, potentially exposing yourself to enemy fire and/or becoming the victim of a follow up attack. The CV will also go for you once the ships you sought cover from are dead.

That is ofc assuming that you're fairly close to your teammates, aka within at least 3km. If you're not, you represent a normal target as if you were alone since long range AA power has been nerfed to the point of insignificance.

 

So you don't want to be in front of the team, you don't want to be alone on a flank and you don't want to be close to your team. Where should you go? Well, if you want to be safe from air attacks, you must seek cover BEHIND your teammates.

Now you may protest that this makes you unable to spot, use your torpedoes or generally completely useless - and you'd be right.

Thus we come to the only true option you have. And that is this:

1 hour ago, Excavatus said:

So.. I was a DD main... before 1.1.2019, now It looks like I'm going to be a BB main.... I guess thats how I deal with those guys.

 

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28 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Reason is quite simple, cruisers and BBs, even those that are supposed to have "good" AA, don't represent a significant obstacle to a (skilled) reworked CV due to even the strongest AA being a nuisance at best. 

And to how many CV players does that apply? 10 or maybe 15%?

Fun fact, around half of them are on your team, making your life as a DD easy.

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8 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

And to how many CV players does that apply? 10 or maybe 15%?

Fun fact, around half of them are on your team, making your life as a DD easy.

 

And here I thought the discussion is based around there being something to counter in the first place. Against an incompetent CV player you may as well keep your AA enabled for free plane kills if you don't run at risk of drawing accurate fire.

 

Frankly I fail to see how such a scenario holds any relevance to what OP is asking for. Same with the assumption of your own CV being competent.

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6 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

And here I thought the discussion is based around there being something to counter in the first place. Against an incompetent CV player you may as well keep your AA enabled for free plane kills if you don't run at risk of drawing accurate fire.

 

Frankly I fail to see how such a scenario holds any relevance to what OP is asking for. Same with the assumption of your own CV being competent.

The reality of the game is relevant.

If something works 80% of the time, you can consider it a valid tactic.

 

If you consider only tactics that work 100% of the time, then there are no valid tactics for any ship.

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1 hour ago, ColonelPete said:

More like replacement gods...

Most of them need more than half a match to sink a competent DD. Considering that they need more than half a match to find him, competent DD survive  against CV most of the time.

 

Only if the CV is utterly Incompetent.

No Offense to you. But a Capable CV. (Yes a Capable CV not a Pro CV or El2azer.....) will need max 3 Assault Squadron Runs to Kill a DD.

And that is assuming he really is very Unlucky with RNG on the Rockets and thus constantly only does pretty low Damage Drops on it.

 

 

The Sad and Serious Truth of this Topic (and also the reason why not putting "Witty Comment" is quite the Demand here.

Is that CVs right now are so Ridiculously Overpowered that there really is no Advice worth giving to deal with a CV when he Attacks you.

Once he Attacks you the most Effective Strategy on Defending yourself is unfortunately to disable AA and hope that the Enemy CV is a Potato which doesnt know how to Deal with a Ship that wont be spotted before your past the minimum Distance to Start an Attack Run.

 

And thats not a Witty Comment or even a Joke. Its unfortunately just the Cold hard Truth I know because I am playing CVs and aside from basicly driving backwards from your Spawn and thus being useless somewhere in a corner behind your Team. There is literally nothing that a DD can do to prevent me from killing him after I decided that I want to kill him.

 

Believe me. As a CV Player if I had met a DD so far which could actually do something to fight me off. I would tell you. But there really isnt anything.

You basicly Pray the CV is Incompetent or you make yourself so useless to your Team that the Enemy CV decides to rather Kill a Target that is more Valuable than a useless DD hiding behind his BBs.

Beyond that there really is no valid Advice to Offer here.

 

 

I would give Advice to use certain Maneuvers to Evade Incoming Rockets. But the Truth is that many CVs including me will actually abuse such Maneuvers to get even better Hits on you and kill you faster.

Because the moment you give us a maneuver that shows the CV part of your side even for a moment thats an excellent moment to strike you for even higher damage.

So as stupid as it sounds. But going straight towards or straight away from the Planes without maneuvering once you reached that position. Is effectively the best evasion you can have against Rockets because it gives you at least the chance that RNG might annoy the CV by giving him low Damage Hits on you.

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1 minute ago, ColonelPete said:

The reality of the game is relevant.

If something works 80% of the time, you can consider it a valid tactic.

 

Then why aren't you doing exactly that?

Why is no one listing that it is ok to sail around alone with AA enabled because the CV will die to your flak and/or miss in the great majority of cases anyway e.g.?

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