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Camperdown

Excessive citadel damage for cruiser the cause of bad game dynamic?

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There have been long discussions about the lame level of play on this forum. Having tried to make Neptune work with radar, I submit the following.

The glass jaw of cruisers makes it too dangerous for them to play their proper role in opposing DDs. As soon as you show yourself one bit you are targeted by every BB and CA in the game and you will killed by cits in an instant.

As a result most cruisers hide behind islands, BBs camp for fear of torps and the game becomes as static as the trenches in WWI. 

My proposal: reduce the cit damage on cruisers so they can fight again.

 

What do y'all say?

 

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No. Cruisers are still pretty strong once they learn to angle and use concealment or land masses to turn.

Their DPM and fire chance make them the most consistent damage dealers in the game.

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12 minutes ago, Camperdown said:

As a result most cruisers hide behind islands, BBs camp for fear of torps and the game becomes as static as the trenches in WWI. 

Thats only true for bad players i think. But its true that some cruisers need the islands to survive, but not in a static way.

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20 minutes ago, Camperdown said:

My proposal: reduce the cit damage on cruisers so they can fight again.

Nah, the citadeldamage is fine.  

You only have to reduce the number of BBs per battle to max 3 .

It is really difficult to angle/dodge in a cruiser while 5 BBs are shooting at your position.

 

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37 minutes ago, Camperdown said:

There have been long discussions about the lame level of play on this forum. Having tried to make Neptune work with radar, I submit the following.

The glass jaw of cruisers makes it too dangerous for them to play their proper role in opposing DDs. As soon as you show yourself one bit you are targeted by every BB and CA in the game and you will killed by cits in an instant.

As a result most cruisers hide behind islands, BBs camp for fear of torps and the game becomes as static as the trenches in WWI. 

My proposal: reduce the cit damage on cruisers so they can fight again.

 

What do y'all say?

 

BB do not camp because of torps...

 

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Part of the reason for the CV rework was that onehitting ppl wasn't deemed fun and engaging yet cruisers have to suffer this threat constantly. But I guess it is okay since the BBs are doing the shot.

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6 minutes ago, Pappus said:

Part of the reason for the CV rework was that onehitting ppl wasn't deemed fun and engaging yet cruisers have to suffer this threat constantly. But I guess it is okay since the BBs are doing the shot.

You only get 1 shot killed in a cruiser if you play wrong. learn the mistake and correct your game play and you survive longer. Over extend, get yourself in a bad position where you can be cross fired and you deserve to die. Cruisers are the best class to learn how to read the flow of battle, when you get it wrong you die. 

With the CV you could do everything right and still get nuked.

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58 minutes ago, Camperdown said:

There have been long discussions about the lame level of play on this forum. Having tried to make Neptune work with radar, I submit the following.

The glass jaw of cruisers makes it too dangerous for them to play their proper role in opposing DDs. As soon as you show yourself one bit you are targeted by every BB and CA in the game and you will killed by cits in an instant.

As a result most cruisers hide behind islands, BBs camp for fear of torps and the game becomes as static as the trenches in WWI. 

My proposal: reduce the cit damage on cruisers so they can fight again.

 

What do y'all say?

 

Hard enough playing a DD as it, have you thought this through properly ?

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16 minutes ago, Fat_Maniac said:

You only get 1 shot killed in a cruiser if you play wrong.

Are you sure about that? Neptune seems to explode when hit from any angle. If the OP is having trouble with that ship he's not alone. 

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1 minute ago, invicta2012 said:

Are you sure about that? Neptune seems to explode when hit from any angle. If the OP is having trouble with that ship he's not alone. 

I agree Neptune is a bad ship, she does pop way too easily. I've not played her myself yet but I have popped my fair share of them. Every battle I see them in I don't think I've ever seen one live very long, unless it has been played extremely passively until the end of the game.

 

All my clan mates who have Minotaur tell me I should just FXP past her when I grind the RN CL line.

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25 minutes ago, Fat_Maniac said:

You only get 1 shot killed in a cruiser if you play wrong. learn the mistake and correct your game play and you survive longer. Over extend, get yourself in a bad position where you can be cross fired and you deserve to die. Cruisers are the best class to learn how to read the flow of battle, when you get it wrong you die. 

With the CV you could do everything right and still get nuked.

You only got oneshot by the CV if you played wrong either. If you put effort into dodging there was no way to bring enough dmg to onehit. No angling helps you against long range plumbing fire either. Those are more rare, but it can happen.

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1 minute ago, Pappus said:

No angling helps you against long range plumbing fire either.

It's true. They distract you with choices of soldered or push-fit joints and then BOOM you've lost your citadel. Devious, they are.

 

5 minutes ago, Fat_Maniac said:

I agree Neptune is a bad ship, she does pop way too easily

All the RN cruisers are like that,  it's just that with Neptune you find yourself facing the big beastie BBs and super cruisers which are accurate and will just disregard your armour (such as it is). It's a big ship with a big citadel; always a pleasure if you see a Red team Neptune in the open, 'cause it's brown bread.

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29 minutes ago, Pappus said:

You only got oneshot by the CV if you played wrong either. If you put effort into dodging there was no way to bring enough dmg to onehit. No angling helps you against long range plumbing fire either. Those are more rare, but it can happen.

This is the crux of pain in the cruiser, you can dodge and use WASD hax as much as you like, but you will always end up showing your broadside to somebody in that process. It's just a question then of are you in range. are their guns pointing at you, are they loaded, no land mass in the way, If yes then pull the trigger. If their aim is good, and RNGesus is with them, then the pain arrives

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2 hours ago, Camperdown said:

There have been long discussions about the lame level of play on this forum. Having tried to make Neptune work with radar, I submit the following.

The glass jaw of cruisers makes it too dangerous for them to play their proper role in opposing DDs. As soon as you show yourself one bit you are targeted by every BB and CA in the game and you will killed by cits in an instant.

As a result most cruisers hide behind islands, BBs camp for fear of torps and the game becomes as static as the trenches in WWI. 

My proposal: reduce the cit damage on cruisers so they can fight again.

 

What do y'all say?

 

Neptune with a radar is playing Neptune at it's hardest.... why? Even I don't use Radar on Neptune and I love that ship. Only buff Neptune needs is in relation to it's smoke detection penalty which needs to be in line with Edinburgh and Mino. 

Cruisers are not meant to just be anti-DD. They all have varying style, most being high DMP ships like the French line or zonal control ships like the US line. Other DD's are meant to oppose other DD's or a CV if you have one in gmae. Not cruisers rushing to the middle getting spanked like you say you are. 

 

I would suggest evaluating how you play cruisers. Plenty of us would be happy to help, put some replays up and we can talk you through cruiser play. 

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Neptune has worse detection then the others in line, playing her with radar is really not recommended.

I loved radar Edin I play radar Mino but I never had balls/skilz big enough to play radar Neptune. Just a few games in her with smoke was enough to know it will not work for me.

She could really use some love in smoke fire detection department. Amd maybe surviability, like give some of hers ability to explode to Solensk, and take some of his overpen magic to Neptune.:cap_haloween:

I'd love to see 4 BBs cap or even 4 capital ships cap (like BBs and CVs combined) it would be easier to play cruisers but real problem is that there is too much RNG in all this. You never know if you will hit the water all around the target, overpen it, ricochet or score juicy citadel. You can kite, dodge and still get citadeled by a stray shell. A bit of randomness is ok, but too much is frustrating. If BBs would become too strong, reduce in max Ap damage would balance it.

 

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Two days ago I killed a Bismarck after 55 K dam within about 10 minutes therof 15 k fire with my Nurnberg.

 

After his demise the captain complains in chat about "[edited]fire-HE Meta".

 

BUT during the 10 minutes he never shoot at me. And almost all damage on him was done by a t-2 cruiser.

 

I was speechless.

 

 

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If you want to deal with the static meta:

- Reduce range on all ships by 10 km

- remove CVs

- Map pool change to: Ocean 1, ocean 2, ocean 3 and ocean 4.

 

:Smile_trollface:

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Personally I think it's all about balancing the ship you're in and it's characteristics to the map.

 

I don't agree that removing islands would reduce the static game play - many ships need islands to get close to anything and stand a chance. If you play on ocean everyone is shooting at max range in two lines and qutie frankly it's boring.

radar/CVs have made life alot harder for dds - that said dds were probably a bit overpowered before hand.

Reducing citadel damage would make it easier for them to expose themselves, but part of the game is that you know you're blappable so keeping the range up and manouvering or using cover is part of it, if you go in close it needs to be over quick...

 

Well done making radar neptune work - that's extreme cruisering with a huge citadel (although I lover her for her dps and just keep in mind her smoke firing penalty when I'm in smoke).

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9 minutes ago, Europizza said:

Yes and remove ships

replace with canoes and biggie smalls dancing in the background :Smile_teethhappy:

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4 hours ago, Bear_Necessities said:

Neptune with a radar is playing Neptune at it's hardest.... why?

I like a challenge and the imagined horrified expressions of smoke campers/DDs that did not expect the radar. Sadly I reset the line, so still need to get back to Neptune...

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