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RamboCras

One side winning massively..

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Once in a while, you have a game where one team will run over the other team and the losing team will get 1-2 kills and the game ends in like 12-15 min.

 

In my perception, this scenario is happening more frequently. Does anyone share this feeling?

 

Could it be that: if you have extremely overpowered ships (Smolensk, Benham, etc) being in the hands of 1-2-3 very good players on 1 side, and the other team being average but with the same ships, it's easier to overrun a team?

 

I find that even being on the winning team the game is less fun, who wants to overrun a team so hard? Because it goes so fast, less intensive exchanges, less heals are used and there is less damage to be farmed. But, I think the less damage farming is something we will be going to get used to with the coming of the subs who have hardly any damage to farm.

 

Do you guys share this experience?

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The problem is not ships being OP ( i believe they are strong but not OP), the problem is the playerbase gets more and more worse.

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I would like to know what is the cause. I can't explain it. When you are on the winning team it seems because everybody is doing the right thing no matter the odds, the mm or the OP ships on the other side.

Example: in 9 battle a side (very early in the morning), we lost our CV after 3 mins as the guy moved forward in a kamikaze move. We still won having lost only 3 ships. Their CV seemed to be very ineffective and their Smolensk didn't do much to be honest. Battle ended very quickly.

So, no idea really.

 

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7 minutes ago, RamboCras said:

Once in a while, you have a game where one team will run over the other team and the losing team will get 1-2 kills and the game ends in like 12-15 min.

source.gif.03bf66bd6453b677ca50814126de0759.gif

12-15 min? Oh you sweet summer child.... You can call yourself lucky. I've been experiencing more and more 6 minute games. Where either mine or the enemies DDs rush-yolo-die into the caps. 

Has nothing to do with ships being overpowered or skill unbalanced mm. It is because of the steady influx of extremely bad players into this game. 

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1 minute ago, Igarigen said:

The problem is not ships being OP ( i believe they are strong but not OP), the problem is the playerbase gets more and more worse.

You always have 1 or 2 nob heads in your team, sailing into cap in a cruiser straight from the start, or some ships going around the outside and being out of play for 3-4-5 min. I just feel that the team is punished harder if you have players like that. Before the OP and Arcade-type ships, you could still stay in the game for a decent while. 

 

Also when it's 2 against 3, the 2 could hold out quite a while, now with the spam ships, 2 against 3 means it becomes 1-3 within 1-1,5 min when 1 of the 3 is a Smolenks/Colbert/Benham/Friesland/Haregumo/Kleber/Kitakaze/Mogador. Since we are getting more and more ships like this in the game, the balance in a fight is more quickly gone. 

 

If of the 3 was a Worcester and there were no mountains to hide behind, you could finish him off and make it a 2-2. Since the Smolensk has smoke, he can close into 12k, smoke up and make every shot count and reversing won't work cause he can shoot you for 4.7km. Pushing brings you in Smolensk torp range and perhaps other ships on another cap.

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11 minutes ago, RamboCras said:

Does anyone share this feeling?

yes I do, but from my experience it's not related to the ships, it's the players as more and more do think this is kind of an ego-shooter with much dakka-dakka in arcade-style. If you do check - e.g. with MM-Monitor - you can see that a lot of players really "suck". 

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The Problem is definitely witht he Playerbase. Not supporting Battleships , rather comically bad Destroyers and cruisers that are so far behind any Game Objective.

And its not getting much better. Good players are sparse now as the high tiers get more and more populated by the endless fields of Potatoes. :)

having a team above 50% WR is the exception to the Rule :)

 

 

3 minutes ago, GarrusBrutus said:

I've been experiencing more and more 6 minute games.

Just look at Garrus... such a Potato... totally his fault to *nods*

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Roflstomps are probably a combination of factors: usually, it needs most of one team getting really bad players, with the few good ones in the worst possible spawn position, on a map that doesn't really favor their specific ships. Meanwhile the other team has the ships, spawn positions, and enough decent players to just push and kill.  End result, a game neither side can enjoy. I really hate being on either side of these.. And yes, @GarrusBrutus is quite correct, these games tend to last only 5-6 min. Can't last much longer than that when one team controls all the caps from the get go and has practically no losses while killing most of the enemy team... 1000 points are reached very easily when that happens.

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If 1 team loses 2 crucial ships this game gets unbalanced exponentially very quickly. Add to that the rapid influx of low skilled or low experienced players (grind is easy to circumvent) and you have a recipe for disaster: a few bad players grouped in 1 team in crucial ships can easily trow balance off completely, making the match only about postponing the inevitable. This will only get worse over time as the percentage of bad players in higher tiers will grow due to the grind-requiered-only nature of the game design, the forgiving economy XP and credit wise and the multiple ways the marketing side of the game offers circumventing experience all together.

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13 minutes ago, Europizza said:

If 1 team loses 2 crucial ships this game gets unbalanced exponentially very quickly. Add to that the rapid influx of low skilled or low experienced players (grind is easy to circumvent) and you have a recipe for disaster: a few bad players grouped in 1 team in crucial ships can easily trow balance off completely, making the match only about postponing the inevitable. This will only get worse over time as the percentage of bad players in higher tiers will grow due to the grind-requiered-only nature of the game design, the forgiving economy XP and credit wise and the multiple ways the marketing side of the game offers circumventing experience all together.

Also known as "failing upwards", which is how a lot of the player base gets to t10...

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i suspect a lot of the more recent players have come from the likes of COD etc and have been conditioned that the aim is to "rank up" as quick as possible to get access to the best weapons which makes winning easier, unfortunately for them in WOWS all that happens is they end up meeting players who also have the best weapons and in a lot of cases are far more experienced players.

 

 

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the biggest cause for this is that a team vs team game with no respawns is an inherently unstable design.

 

Picture an airplane with tilted-down wings. If it starts to lean a tiny bit in either direction, the wing design would cause it to tilt more and more in that direction until its flying upside down.

 

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2 hours ago, RamboCras said:

Once in a while, you have a game where one team will run over the other team and the losing team will get 1-2 kills and the game ends in like 12-15 min.

 

In my perception, this scenario is happening more frequently. Does anyone share this feeling?

 

Could it be that: if you have extremely overpowered ships (Smolensk, Benham, etc) being in the hands of 1-2-3 very good players on 1 side, and the other team being average but with the same ships, it's easier to overrun a team?

 

I find that even being on the winning team the game is less fun, who wants to overrun a team so hard? Because it goes so fast, less intensive exchanges, less heals are used and there is less damage to be farmed. But, I think the less damage farming is something we will be going to get used to with the coming of the subs who have hardly any damage to farm.

 

Do you guys share this experience?

Can't say I've notice an increase in ROFL stomps compared to the situation before my previous break from the game.
 

I have the habbit of looking at the players' stats from both teams when the ROFL stomps happen, both when I win and lose, and there are common traits:

The losing team has more really really bad players of which two types stand out; the ones who either bought the JB, or any other premium BB, as their first PvP ship with less than 100 PvP battles played with 42% or below winrate and players with thousands of battles behind them and with a winrate below 45%.
The winning team sometimes have much better players but sometimes it is filled with just the same type of really really bad players in which case it is the least worst team that wins.

What really stands out though is the very low number of the average and above players I observe on any team compared to the number of really really bad ones - it is like that the majority of those have left the game and the ones left are either the bad and really bad ones with thousands of battles played or new bad ones.
In any case, after I began playing WOWS again it has been a rare occurence, when I checked the team members stats, where the average winrate of any team have not been below 47% winrate; which is curious given that the average overall winrate of all WoWS players are very close to 49 to 50%

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Bear in mind, also, the 'snowball effect': this discussion happens a lot in WOT too, only I get the impression that the effect is perhaps more pronounced in Tanks.

 

Essentially, when one side loses a ship, the other has more guns to bring to bear on the survivors, so increasing the likelihood of one of those survivors being killed off as well; this process then repeats, if nothing is done to arrest it, so resulting in a roflstomp.

 

Obviously, massively over-simplifying, but that's the general gist.

 

It's the bit about arresting it that's crucial - a good player can sometimes prevent a few casualties turning into a roflstomp; having the right ship can help too. If you want to win, knowing this illustrates why (in general) you want to remove enemy guns from the game as quickly as possible, and why focus firing is so important too...

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Usually snowballing happens really fast if any or all DDs (and to a lesser extend also cruisers) of your team mess up and get deleted in the first 3 to 5min.

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Ohhh it's nothing new. Here is a wonderful recent batch. Some of these games did not get past the 5th min. Frankly, I'm so used to it that I've just started to give up. I manged 3 solo games yesterday and 2/3 today before I just went, nahhhhhh :etc_swear: it. And for the last 4 years it's never had that feeling. I also don't see WG doing anything to fix it so hell, new games are being played and less time on WoWs. It's what they want so I'm not mad, just a bit sad. 

 

Spoiler

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Had a game just like that:

 

Our DDs (khab, shima and z46) all go to a different cap (hooray right?). They manage to all get torp rushed, radared, stuck on islands, etc. 

 

All three dead two or three minutes in. 

 

Our team doesn't dare to push anymore so they stay far away from the caps. 

 

5 minutes in points are 900something - almost nothing. 

 

FUN FUN FUN! 

 

Note. All three dd players had more games played than me, so they were very... Ehm... Experienced. :Smile_hiding:

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Yes.

 

Don't expect much from this, it is a taboo matter and linked to some very controversial (mm related) stuff. So (specific) people pop up usually and douse everyone in gasoline before lighting the thread on fire haha :)

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3 hours ago, The_Reichtangle said:

[...]by the endless fields of Potatoes.[...]

Mother Nature's answer to that were, among others, these...

Premnotrypes_vorax_-_5179011.jpg640px-Late_blight_on_potato_leaf_2.jpg

 

...but agricultural pest control took over.

 

1 hour ago, Verblonde said:

Bear in mind, also, the 'snowball effect': this discussion happens a lot in WOT too, only I get the impression that the effect is perhaps more pronounced in Tanks.

 

Essentially, when one side loses a ship, the other has more guns to bring to bear on the survivors, so increasing the likelihood of one of those survivors being killed off as well; this process then repeats, if nothing is done to arrest it, so resulting in a roflstomp.

 

Obviously, massively over-simplifying, but that's the general gist.

 

It's the bit about arresting it that's crucial - a good player can sometimes prevent a few casualties turning into a roflstomp; having the right ship can help too. If you want to win, knowing this illustrates why (in general) you want to remove enemy guns from the game as quickly as possible, and why focus firing is so important too...

1 hour ago, thiextar said:

Picture an airplane with tilted-down wings. If it starts to lean a tiny bit in either direction, the wing design would cause it to tilt more and more in that direction until its flying upside down.

Lanchester's laws, basically. I like the negative dihedral/anhedral simile, it fits really well. And yes, when the numbers start piling up against you competent players on the right ships can revert it to some extent, if they have enough time.

 

Salute.

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1 hour ago, thiextar said:

the biggest cause for this is that a team vs team game with no respawns is an inherently unstable design.

If anything War Thunder shows, snowballing effect leads to pure and unmoderated spawnkilling:Smile_smile:

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4 hours ago, RamboCras said:

Once in a while, you have a game where one team will run over the other team and the losing team will get 1-2 kills and the game ends in like 12-15 min.

 

In my perception, this scenario is happening more frequently. Does anyone share this feeling?

 

Could it be that: if you have extremely overpowered ships (Smolensk, Benham, etc) being in the hands of 1-2-3 very good players on 1 side, and the other team being average but with the same ships, it's easier to overrun a team?

 

I find that even being on the winning team the game is less fun, who wants to overrun a team so hard? Because it goes so fast, less intensive exchanges, less heals are used and there is less damage to be farmed. But, I think the less damage farming is something we will be going to get used to with the coming of the subs who have hardly any damage to farm.

 

Do you guys share this experience?

 I know exactly the situation you mean, and have been on both sides of the equation recently. However, I don't have any impression that it is happening more often than, say, a year ago. :Smile_Default:

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5 hours ago, RamboCras said:

Once in a while, you have a game where one team will run over the other team and the losing team will get 1-2 kills and the game ends in like 12-15 min.

 

In my perception, this scenario is happening more frequently. Does anyone share this feeling?

 

Could it be that: if you have extremely overpowered ships (Smolensk, Benham, etc) being in the hands of 1-2-3 very good players on 1 side, and the other team being average but with the same ships, it's easier to overrun a team?

 

I find that even being on the winning team the game is less fun, who wants to overrun a team so hard? Because it goes so fast, less intensive exchanges, less heals are used and there is less damage to be farmed. But, I think the less damage farming is something we will be going to get used to with the coming of the subs who have hardly any damage to farm.

 

Do you guys share this experience?

Once in a while...

 

happened 5 out of 7 games last night. 

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My 2p is that this really took off after the IJN DD nerf, previously the Iso/Mine acted as a bit of a skill check to stop really bad players progressing to higher tiers, once they got whacked with the nerf-bat the way was open for potatoes to fail their way to T10.

 

Edit,

 

Found this post from a while back that illustrates the point:

 

 

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2 hours ago, GarrusBrutus said:

(...)

Note. All three dd players had more games played than me, so they were very... Ehm... Experienced. :Smile_hiding:

Probably have received personal mission: "Play 15 random battles in a destroyer"? :Smile_teethhappy:

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