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johncl

New player needs advice

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Hello 

 

I've been playing the game since beta but only this year have i got in to the game more ...I have 2.5k battles but i have alot to learn 

 

Q1 What is the best setup for Yamato and any tips on how to play it .  (It is my 1st and only  T10 i have 8 battles in it )

Q2 Is the Baltimore worth keeping after you have researched the buffalo ( i hate this ship as it gets Citadel way to much even from the front ..Is it me or the ship)

Q3  Crazy question i feel bad to ask ...When to use AP or HE ....(In my yamato i had a worcester at 5k full broad side all my AP shells from yamato over pen should i use HE ) 

 

Please can an experinced player advise me on these questions 

 

thanks

 

johnny

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On 11/2/2019 at 11:45 PM, johncl said:

Q1 What is the best setup for Yamato and any tips on how to play it . 

Tank build.

Spoiler

 

 

On 11/2/2019 at 11:45 PM, johncl said:

Q2 Is the Baltimore worth keeping after you have researched the buffalo

General consensus is that she's a pretty strong ship. (And I very much agree with this assessment)

If you struggle with her I'd suggest not moving up to the Buffalo (or later DM) yet and keep playing the Baltimore/New Orleans until you're comfortable with the line.

Or you might decide the line is not for you and sell it to come back to it later or not at all. In general USN CAs benefit tremendously from having experience in heavy cruisers in general

and being fluent in positioning, ship+map knowledge and reading the minimap/flow of battle.

 

On 11/2/2019 at 11:45 PM, johncl said:

Q3  Crazy question i feel bad to ask ...When to use AP or HE

Unless you're shooting at a DD stick to AP in the Yamato. You can usually apply that to almost all BBs.

Sometimes you'll get unlucky salvos anyways but if you improve your aiming she's able to reliably nail the citadels of basically every ship that gets one.

With DDs usually use HE, with cruisers it depends (AP on broadsides, HE on angled targets)

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Thanks for the reply Rnat 

 

 

I watched a flamu video im shocked as i thought the Yamato was a very different ship...I glad i watch the video ..

 

The Baltimore  i was thinking to sell it as i hate it ,,,,But im not sure if it's me or the ship to be honest im still not sure i hope to get some more opinions 

 

As for the shell type when i hit a cruiser  full BS and get 5 over pens should my next salvo be HE ??  It never makes sense to me so many times i get over pens how will improving my aim solve this and where should i aim ..Normal i go for the middle of the ship

 

thanks again for the reply 

 

johnny

 

 

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12 hours ago, johncl said:

The Baltimore  i was thinking to sell it as i hate it ,,,,But im not sure if it's me or the ship to be honest im still not sure i hope to get some more opinions 

As I said, she's a good ship. But currently she's not a good ship for you.

Get some experience on other CA-lines and come back to her later for that juicy super-heavy USN AP ^^

 

12 hours ago, johncl said:

As for the shell type when i hit a cruiser  full BS and get 5 over pens should my next salvo be HE ??  It never makes sense to me so many times i get over pens how will improving my aim solve this and where should i aim ..Normal i go for the middle of the ship

You might be aiming a tad to high so you're not hitting the main armor belt but the much more thinly armored casemate or superstructure instead, which is a rather common reason to get overpens.

If the cruiser is very angled it might be a better idea to shoot the bow/stern instead (whichever is pointed at you) since your shells can (in most cases) overmatch it and have more room to travel within the ship.

Otherwise with BB AP (or CA AP against other CA/CL) aiming at the waterline under the smoke-stacks (if your enemy is giving you broadside) is the right thing to do.

The Yamato in particular can overmatch the Bow/Stern of most BBs as well which makes her especially powerful (compared to other BBs) when the enemy knows what he's doing.

(Only noses the Yama can meet, that it can't overmatch everywhere are on Vladivostok, Lenin, Sovetsky Soyuz, Kremlin, Moskva, Stalingrad, Bismarck, Tirpitz, FdG and Großer Kurfürst)

Again unless you're shooting a DD stick to AP on the Yama. I know some ppl in game that tear their hair out every time they meet a Yama, that is shooting HE.

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Again thanks for taking your time to help me out,

 

 

Regarding the Baltimore I have just researched the Buffalo i ended the grind with a 52% WR ..But only  31k average DMG per game 

 

I try to play her like a radar cruiser using Islands spotting caps for DD then nose forward giving no sides (where i can) shooting what ever comes at me , if its T8 9 10 BB i will retreat or take pot shots if i have BB support with me . ( let them take the hits and i support with DPM ) 

 

I don't like the way it's very unforgiving you lose %50 HP from 2 BB shells clipping you ..no room for error here 

I know i have a lot to learn i will  keep the balti and play it until i become better and watch more videos on her , ( thanks you for this advice )  

 

 

AP/HE i will be conscious of hitting the armour belt and not aiming to high ..I hope i see improvements   ( thanks you for this advice )  

 

With regards to Yamato ...I will take this new found knowledge and try to apply it to my games

 

 

Is the Hipper any good ???I really like the Yorck (T7) i finished the grind with a 60% win and 28k DMG per battle 

 

Last question  The captain skill (teir4) that limits your ship to 3 fires could you explain how this works ..Do you have to let the fire burn out before it is counted as a one fire will repairing the fire make it not count as 1 fire 

 

 

thanks again for the help

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, johncl said:

Is the Hipper any good ???I really like the Yorck (T7) i finished the grind with a 60% win and 28k DMG per battle 

 

Last question  The captain skill (teir4) that limits your ship to 3 fires could you explain how this works ..Do you have to let the fire burn out before it is counted as a one fire will repairing the fire make it not count as 1 fire 

 

 

thanks again for the help

 

 

The Hipper isn't great. Don't get me wrong, she's not as terrible as some make her out to be, but time (read: power creep) has not been kind to this ship, or her higher tier counterparts (Hindenburg has fallen out of the meta pretty hard). One of the major drawbacks is the very low dpm - your reload times are extremely long - and this is a ship that will regularly face ships like Smolensk, Harugumo, Friesland, Des Moines, Worcester, etc, all of which can melt a careless Hipper in no time if it gets caught out. German cruiser HE isn't that great - while it has improved pen (almost built-in IFHE), the alpha and fire chance leave a lot to be desired. The AP is good, as long as someone gives you flat broadside - otherwise, german AP autobounce angles are quite bad. Your torps, like all german cruisers with the exception of the Graf Spee, only have 6km range - and just having these tends to get newbies killed a lot; if I had a nickel for every time I saw a german cruiser player turn broadside in order to torp a bow on BB (who is often out of torp range still), only to get instantly blapped, well, I'd have a lot of nickels.

 

Mind you, this behavior isn't limited to german cruiser players, a lot of bad players do this - I see bad BB players that happen to have torpedoes use the terrible "turn flat broadside to a bow on target to torp it" brawling tactic all the time, I guess they never connected that behavior to getting blapped to the next map. Digression aside, Hipper is playable as long as you understand how to do it, she has some tank, torps and hydro, but she's not a great ship by any stretch of the imagination. Top tier, she can perform, in T10 you will struggle hard. If you want to go for a first t10 cruiser, I would suggest a Zao instead: she's quite old by now, but has endured the power creep really well, and she will teach you a lot about how to play a cruiser. Still one of the best kiting cruisers in the game, with great stealth, excellent HE, punishing AP, and great torps. I would recommend IJN cruisers over german ones to new players any day of the week.

 

As for fire prevention, it does two things. One, it increases your built - in resistance to being set on fire (so less shells that hit you will cause fires overall), and two, it limits the amount of fires your ships can be set on at the same time to 3 - otherwise you could have 4 fires burning at once. 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Captain_Newman said:

(almost built-in IFHE)

Better than build-in IFHE. (+50% pen instead of +30%)

The Hipper is a fairly solid ship. She's slow for a cruiser, not very maneuverable and the DPM is on the low side as you are used to from the York.

To a lesser degree she also inherits the Yorks weakness of loosing engine when hit by large caliber HE on the mid-section. Besides that she is pretty sturdy for a cruiser her tier.
She works best if you can place her on the flank of the enemy force where you can get access to their broadsides and use the (situational) high dmg AP.

You can play her a long range as an HE-spammer but it's not a very good way to use her. Honestly she's a bit of a low before the Roon and Hinden
(on that note: in most builds the Hinden has better HE-dpm and fires per minute than the Zao (range mod Zao v. reload mod Hinden))

 

Regarding the Balti:

Supporting your DDs is very good. Killing enemy DDs is very good.
Dying or being unable to do anything else at the time or afterwards means you mis-positioned.

General hint: 203mm AP overmatches the bow/stern of T6-7 British CL and any gun of caliber 381mm and smaller can't overmatch the Baltis bow.

 

As for fire-prevention:
You normally have 4 "fire sections" (bow, frontal mid-section, rear mid-section, stern) on your ship. Each spot can support 1 fire and each shell can only cause a fire on the respective section it hits

(i.e. no matter how many HE-shells hit e.g. your bow they can never cause more than the 1 fire on the bow-section ect.)

Fire-prevention (in addition to lowering the fire-chance slightly) works by uniting the 2 sections amidships into 1, effective leaving you with only 3 possible "slots" where you can  possibly have a fire.
One of the main reasons this is useful is that HE-spammers tend to target your mid-section/superstructure (relatively easy to hit and guaranteed pens on the superstructure)

so if you then get a fire there they will have a hard time setting a second one unless they target (or accidentally hit) another section of your ship.

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Thanks captain for the reply and good information ...

 

I got the  fire-prevention: all wrong thinking it was only 3 fire max per battle .

I found the nickle bit very funny and so true You would not get many nickles from me LOL i'm not that bad (¬: 

 

rnat thanks again

 

I looked at your profile your opinion carry's more weight now ..Top player !!

 

(General hint: 203mm AP overmatches the bow/stern of T6-7 British CL and any gun of caliber 381mm and smaller can't overmatch the Baltis bow)

 

It's knowledge like this that i need to know to become a better player as much as anything ..

 

You see if i knew what calibre gun every ship has..i will know what i can go nose on to and what will over match me ...At the moment i just guess  T8 9 10 BB are no in most cases ...... but cruisers and T7 BB are likely OK to go nose on to and not get over matched  but it is still a guess 

 

 

You have both help me understand what i need to do to improve ....and to play the Baltimore more  and not sell her yet ..Also to learn more about T10 ships before play the Yamato to much ..To buy the hipper and play the line as i enjoy the extra range 

 

again thank you both 

 

johnny

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, johncl said:

I got the  fire-prevention: all wrong thinking it was only 3 fire max per battle .

Fire Prevention remains VERY valuable on battleships, as it removes single source of fire from superstructure. So anyone aiming at ship center of mass, will have effective fire damage halved, as they can start only one fire on superstructure instead two.

 

5 hours ago, johncl said:

You see if i knew what calibre gun every ship has..i will know what i can go nose on to and what will over match me ...At the moment i just guess  T8 9 10 BB are no in most cases ...... but cruisers and T7 BB are likely OK to go nose on to and not get over matched  but it is still a guess 

 

 

You have both help me understand what i need to do to improve ....and to play the Baltimore more  and not sell her yet ..Also to learn more about T10 ships before play the Yamato to much ..To buy the hipper and play the line as i enjoy the extra range 

For overmatch (ignores ricochet) to happen shell needs to be bigger than 14.3 times armor. Thus, 380mm will ricochet off 27mm plating, used in German and USN heavy cruisers of tier 8 and above (27*14.3=386.1). But 406mm will go through.

 

You can check armor and overall stats for unresearched ships as well, just click onto them and expand appropriate tabs 

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On 11/4/2019 at 4:16 PM, johncl said:

I looked at your profile

Oh noes! A stalker!

(srsly though, good on you for checking. I could have been a complete nub talking out of my a*s ^^)

 

On 11/4/2019 at 4:16 PM, johncl said:

It's knowledge like this that i need to know to become a better player as much as anything ..

 

You see if i knew what calibre gun every ship has..i will know what i can go nose on to and what will over match me ...At the moment i just guess  T8 9 10 BB are no in most cases ...... but cruisers and T7 BB are likely OK to go nose on to and not get over matched  but it is still a guess  

 

Some general features of armor (excluding superstructure) for you.

Cruiser armor doesn't really exist at low tier. At T6-7 it's generally enough to bounce 203mm AP (with the exceptions i stated in my last reply)

Battleships at T6+7 and most cruisers at T8+ have 25mm plating on the bow & stern (possibly on the casemate and/or deck as well).

Some cruisers have 27mm armor (=> can bounce 381mm, see below ) on the bow (USN & KM CA)

while the armor scheme along the sides and deck tends to vary quite a bit.

BBs from T8 onward have 32mm armor on the extremities.

VMF and KM BBs additionally tend to have stronger plating along their sides, waterline and decks.

USN BBs have reinforced armor on their central deck (not to the same level as the KM&VMF)

BBs that don't have more plating (except for the turrets and belt) are usually considered very squishy for reasons you'll see soon.

 

As Panocek said the armor threshold for overmatch (i.e. no bounces) is gun caliber / 14.3.

That means:
356mm (common on T5-6 BBs) can not overmatch 25mm (but everything less than that)

381mm (common on MN/KM/RN BBs T6-8) can overmatch 25mm but not 27mm.

406mm and 410mm (common on high tier BBs, esp. USN and IJN starting at T7) can overmatch 27mm but not 30mm

(some broadside- and deck-plating on cruisers)

431-459mm (Republique, Kremlin, Thunderer) can overmatch 30mm but not 32mm

460mm (Yamasushi) can overmatch 32mm but nothing above that.

 

The armor needed to shatter HE-shells (i.e. for them to not do any direct dmg) is    gun caliber / 6    (rounded to the next integer)

If the armor is at least 1 mm thinner the HE shell will do direct damage.
(exceptions being KM cruiser & BB HE [gun caliber / 4 ] and 100mm IJN HE [26mm, i.e. it can pen 25mm]

That means normal 152mm HE can not penetrate 25mm (but 155mm HE can). Normal 203mm HE can penetrate 33mm.

IFHE adds 30% to the penetration of any HE-shell (before rounding) at the cost of some fire-chance.

If you take that into account 152mm HE * can pen 32mm, which means they can pen high tier BBs on parts of their hull instead of only the superstructure. Similarly it allows DD-caliber guns (120-130mm) to pen 25mm, which allows it to do direct dmg on wide portions of the hulls of mid-tier BBs and high tier cruisers.

That means these rapid-fire small caliber guns can do direct dmg to the extremeties of the respective opponents, which turns their theoretically high HE-dpm into actual high HE-dpm.

 

* as well as the Mogamis 155mm, the Donskois and Molotovs 180mm and the 100mm HE on the IJN gunboat line

Spoiler

 

z

 

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Rnat you're a star 

 

I'm going to have to read this 4-5 times maybe more before it sinks in ...But thanks for taking the time to help out a noob like me !!

 

I purchased the Hipper a few days back . I have to grind credits to get the upgrades & modules

 

Would you say the play style/expectations of the hipper to be anything like the Baltimore  ?

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Vor 30 Minuten, johncl sagte:

Rnat you're a star 

 

I'm going to have to read this 4-5 times maybe more before it sinks in ...But thanks for taking the time to help out a noob like me !!

 

I purchased the Hipper a few days back . I have to grind credits to get the upgrades & modules

 

Would you say the play style/expectations of the hipper to be anything like the Baltimore  ?

I would say no. Playstyle is fairly different. Only thing they have in common they are both cruisers and positioning is more important than in other classes.

With Balti you have the "better" ballistics to  use islands and as radar cruiser u have the possibility to use this to support your team against DDs and smoke shooters. Area control.

As Hipper you have more of a support role. Use cover if possible but generally stay with friendly ships and try not to be first target. 1vs1 capabilities of Hipper are limited. She has problem with angled targets. And if you want to use torps u commit to go all in. And more than Balti you need juicy broadsides to rack up some serious dmg.

I think at T8 its were its seperates the sheep from the goats. Your enemys are no joke but cruisers start to get really strong if played right.

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On 11/7/2019 at 10:13 AM, johncl said:

Rnat you're a star 

 

I'm going to have to read this 4-5 times maybe more before it sinks in ...But thanks for taking the time to help out a noob like me !!

 

I purchased the Hipper a few days back . I have to grind credits to get the upgrades & modules

 

Would you say the play style/expectations of the hipper to be anything like the Baltimore  ?

No i'm not. I'm some random bloke on the internet with too much time on my hands.

 

As Donar said the Hipper plays quite differently to the Baltimore.

In general

-USN cruisers (at mid-high tier) are good at area control/area denial and rely on island cover a lot to hide them until the opposition is thin enough to warrant pushing up,

when their improved ricochet-angles turn them into decent brawlers.

-RN cruisers are also area control/denial ships but need friendly DDs to spot more than their USN counterparts,

so they are usually supporting their DDs even more closely than USN ones to keep the spotting up and since they have a smoke to hide in.

(unless you play them with radar, which i wouldn't recommend unless you're pretty confident in your skills)

Since they have no HE-shells positioning is extra important for this line

-IJN cruisers are mid-long range HE-spammers that are best at kiting away from the enemy while torping behind themselves or sneaking up on an enemy

and opening up with AP when they give broadside (or with HE on a DD that you manage to ambush) and disengage at will with their superior concealment

-MN cruisers are long to very long range HE-spammers used to harass a flank for afar,

though one shouldn't underestimate their AP when they get a good chance to use it and with their reload booster they can pump out some decent burst-dmg when needed.

-KM cruisers are typically in-between IJN and MN cruisers. They don't have the stealth to get very close or the speed and manoeuvrability to survive at close ranges for long.

In exchange they are tankier (from T8 on, the Nürn and Königsberg are very paper and Yorck isn't much better).

So they tend to hand around mid-long range ideally on the enemies flank spamming HE until someone gives them broadside

at which point their massive AP-alpha and decent to good reload turns them into a scary opponent.

 

I'll see if I can get in some Hipper and Balti games tonight to show you an example

since Flamus latest commentaries (he does a good job of explaining the ship it's play style and his actions imo) on them are fairly out of date.

 

 

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On 11/3/2019 at 5:59 PM, johncl said:

The Baltimore  i was thinking to sell it as i hate it

As was said earlier, better to just leave it in your port and wait until your skill-set becomes a more suitable match; you never know when ships like this will come in handy (for example, Balti was quite effective in the last T8 Clans season, in the right hands).

 

As a general policy, it's a good idea not to sell too many (ideally, any) higher tier ships: as you know, when you sell something, you only get half the silver back that you initially paid for it (ditto, I believe, on upgrades, if you don't use doubloons to demount them); this silver loss can start impacting your economy quite severely over time, especially if you're F2P.

 

The trick is to acquire any and all port slots that you can, as this is usually the key limiting factor that impacts whether or not to sell a ship (you can always grind more silver)...

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Rnat 

 

You take the time to help out a fellow random internet bloke like me it appreciated I would love to see you play the Baltimore/hipper   

After reading your description on cruiser play style's I have been using my yorik correctly and enjoying the play style    

 

 

Hi VerBlond 

 

 

I am indeed a F2P noob !! I have never spent a single penny on WOWs. 

I have the Russian T5 ship i got for coal ..it's a premium and can make a lot of credit i think my best was 250k for one battle 

 

Im going to keep the Baltimore . Im finding other way to play it ...other than the  radar cruiser style....I have been supporting the BB by letting us close the range on the enemy holding my fire until i know its a fight we can win then unleashing my DPM in support of my BBs ..I have had a few 100k games using this mindset 

 

I agree with you i don't like to sell ships ..I kept the Jap BB @T6 8 9 10 only selling the Nagato as i did not like it , 

I also sold the Cleveland as i found it awful as a T8 but loved it as a T6 and i don't want the T9 T10 on this line .. 

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, johncl said:

I am indeed a F2P noob !! I have never spent a single penny on WOWs.

There's nothing wrong with being F2P; by merely playing, you are helping keep server numbers up. The key downside of this approach (obviously) is that you need to have quite a bit more patience!

 

There are several things you can do to make life a bit easier:

  • If time permits, try and do any/all 'get premium ship' type missions, especially if you have the ship already - at the least, you gain an extra port slot; also, depending on the mechanic, you sometimes get doubloons for the duplicate ship (most missions tend to be silver these days though).
  • Save any doubloons you do win in containers/missions etc. until one of the periodic 'cheap port slots' offers - typically, you can get slots for 150 doubloons apiece (rarely, less, or slightly more).
  • You're already collecting coal, it seems - try and do this is much as you can; the T10 coal ships are *very* good from an economic standpoint, and worth waiting for, mainly due to their having permaflage, which cuts the repair bill drastically.
  • Keep as many higher tier ships as you can: besides the economic reasons already mentioned, if the 'anniversary'/snowflakes type mechanics continue, they'll occasionally net you some decent rewards - for example, during the recent anniversary thing, each T10 you had got you a supercontainer.

With almost 3K battles (at time of writing), you probably know most/all of this already, but just in case...

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On 11/8/2019 at 9:38 AM, johncl said:

Rnat 

  

You take the time to help out a fellow random internet bloke like me it appreciated I would love to see you play the Baltimore/hipper   

After reading your description on cruiser play style's I have been using my yorik correctly and enjoying the play style     

If you want someone to be notified of your answer use the @-command or quote-function.

 

Gotta be honest, i needed a few matches to get back into the Hipper after I re-bought her.

Sadly I didn't get a decent good match today where i can show off the play style talking about.

Gonna chalk that up to a a mix of what the rest of the teams did and (mainly) my own incompetence.

Maybe I'll send you a fitting one when i get a nice Hinden match or something should that still be of interest to you then.

Anyway here's some wins, some losses, some carries and some rubbish matches (posted in chronological order)

So nothing special really.

(sry for this being a day late btw, didn't have time to play yesterday)

 

Baltimore replays:

 

I also remembered this commentary on the Wichita. It's not strictly a Baltimore but regarding play style it's close enough it makes no difference here.

And I think watching an actual unicum play and tell you what he's trying to do and why should be more enlightening than just seeing a semi-pleb derp around without any context ^^

Spoiler

 

 

Hipper replays:

Spoiler

20191108_142235_PGSC108-Hipper_23_Shards.wowsreplay

20191108_174137_PGSC108-Hipper_46_Estuary.wowsreplay

20191108_175534_PGSC108-Hipper_14_Atlantic.wowsreplay

20191108_183911_PGSC108-Hipper_16_OC_bees_to_honey.wowsreplay

20191108_185159_PGSC108-Hipper_22_tierra_del_fuego.wowsreplay

 

(note that these matches are pretty skewered towards me going full ham, that's due to a mix of me being retardedly aggressive and how my flank developed.

(if you want to, you can analyze the kind of situations where i go for the torps, who can shoot me, how's the situation on the rest of the map and who what i'm trying to kill)
So play it safer on the flank because do as i say, not as i do ^^)

(If you don't know it already you open replay files with WorldOfWarships.exe wherever you have that installed)

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