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Cazbol

Sucking at Implacable: A Plea for Help

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A team that I join in my Implacable has a 63.5% chance of losing.

 

I am one of the worst Implacable players out there, with a 36.5% win rate after 52 matches, despite trying my very best.

image.thumb.png.6070db8577f530bdeb485616328d0053.png

My damage and destroyed ships and planes are unimpressive, but still slightly above average for the server.  However, my win rate looks like I'm attacking my own team.

 

My win rates for the other carriers are

  • Lexington: 55.3%, 85 matches
  • Shokaku: 52.8%, 53 matches
  • Ranger: 72.7%, 44 matches
  • Ryujo: 55.6%, 36 matches
  • Furious: 50%, 58 matches
  • Langley: 50%, 10 matches
  • Hosho: 50%, 10 matches
  • Hermes: 50%, 20 matches

My stats page.

In summary, I'm clearly dragging my teams down when I play this particular ship.

 

I'm therefore asking for any advice on how to play the Implacable.  In what way should it be played differently from the Lexington and the Shokaku?

 

I do try to focus on the destroyers in the beginning but I also try to weigh that against the difficulty of finding them vs. doing damage against other targets.  I've also wondered whether I'm staying too far from the action and therefore spending too much time flying to the targets, but I must weigh that against available cover and the risk of quick destruction.  My attempts at improving my performance have been futile.

 

I'm attaching four replays, if anyone can be bothered to analyze and criticize.  These are my last 4, not something cherry-picked.

20191031_124540_PBSA108-Implacable_42_Neighbors.wowsreplay

20191031_120025_PBSA108-Implacable_28_naval_mission.wowsreplay

20191030_124550_PBSA108-Implacable_15_NE_north.wowsreplay

20191030_120345_PBSA108-Implacable_50_Gold_harbor.wowsreplay

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@El2aZeR

 

Is your best bet for good advice on this. (Not saying that he is the only expert, but a forum regular who  is generally happy to chip in with such a topic).

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What I remember about Imblacable is: Freexp. Freexp fast.

 

Yep, not that helpful of an advice. :Smile_sceptic:

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I can only tell you what I aim for when playing implac. 

 

I rely on my team and the psychology of the enemy team. 

If I see the enemy team plans a push into my teams position I attack ships and force them to make unfortunate turns so they get picked off by my team. I also harass ships that before acted very confidently making them maneuver in ways they didn't plan to. 

 

I also try to focus DD's if nothing else is availible and pay attention which enemy BBs are under heavy fire to assist triggering their DCP. 

This will help shake the enemy teams up. You gotta aim to make their actions as uncomfortable as possible. 

 

 

Don't do the dollowing:

 

Going out of your way to protect your teammates with fighters. 

 

Attacking full HP lone BBs that aren't actively pushing. 

 

Ignoring exposed DD's. 

 

Linger for a minute over DD's smoke. 

Screenshot_20191031_151210_com.android.chrome.jpg

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2 minutes ago, Yoshanai said:

Don't do the dollowing:

 

Going out of your way to protect your teammates with fighters. 

 

Attacking full HP lone BBs that aren't actively pushing. 

 

Ignoring exposed DD's. 

 

Linger for a minute over DD's smoke. 

This is excellent.  I'm guilty of 3 of these and will try to correct that.

 

Thank you.

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Best tip for Implacable - don't play Implacable. Or any other UK CV. They are simply bad by design.

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Vor 2 Minuten, Panocek sagte:

Best tip for Implacable - don't play Implacable. Or any other UK CV. They are simply bad by design.

This is true. You will be disappointed by Audacious. 

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48 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Best tip for Implacable - don't play Implacable. Or any other UK CV. They are simply bad by design.

So far I quite like T4/6 and the Ark Royal. However the Implacable, better name is Incapable. 

Really in a T8 match I do better in Furious... or in Ark Royal. 

 

@Cazbol your DMG is higher than mine though, how do u manage that, I can't get any perma-fires (RNG hates me or the CV just sucks).

I'm not doing the three things that were suggested but I'd much rather have Furious. :Smile_teethhappy:

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KDA is fine, damage is on the low end ( i hit 95k back in 8.2).

Probably your pathing is inefficient (spending too much time travelling and too little doing damage). In addition to what has been said:

 

Never go out of your way to provide AA cover unless you can make enemy CV waste even more time breaking through it (= endgame, and be critical)

This is even more true for slow RN planes

 

Stay close to the front lines if reasonably safe (not in the corner or map edge) - especially when using slow RN planes. Usually best in the area where your team has an advantage.

Sometimes you will die if team comes apart....learn from that what position is safe and when to fall back.

 

Also likely: RNG hates you and WR will improve eventually (you had a random losing streak). EG see my Mogador stats: 

image.thumb.png.14a4d0426f3f61f6866513e553bf54aa.png

 

 

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I quite like mine , the slower but tougher planes suit my geriatric reflexes. Get closer and be more selfish with your target choice possibly but your a good CV player so I’m sure it will all work out!

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I don't play carriers - but one thing struck me. Of your higher win rates, how many of those were against Implacable carriers? :P 

Which carriers do you often get opposed to etc. Win rates never tell the entire story, though they should ameliorate out of time, if it's a fundamentally flawed ship and you're not facing the same ones but much stronger ones - then that may be a strong indication as to why.

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8 hours ago, Yoshanai said:

This is true. You will be disappointed by Audacious. 

Oddly enough she was my first T 10 CV, now she is my only one, sold the rest, when playing her I just regard her as a T8 CV even though she is not.One idea my clan boss gave me was to carpet bomb DD's, they don't really expect that.

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8 hours ago, Cazbol said:

A team that I join in my Implacable has a 63.5% chance of losing.

 

I am one of the worst Implacable players out there, with a 36.5% win rate after 52 matches, despite trying my very best.

image.thumb.png.6070db8577f530bdeb485616328d0053.png

My damage and destroyed ships and planes are unimpressive, but still slightly above average for the server.  However, my win rate looks like I'm attacking my own team.

 

My win rates for the other carriers are

  • Lexington: 55.3%, 85 matches
  • Shokaku: 52.8%, 53 matches
  • Ranger: 72.7%, 44 matches
  • Ryujo: 55.6%, 36 matches
  • Furious: 50%, 58 matches
  • Langley: 50%, 10 matches
  • Hosho: 50%, 10 matches
  • Hermes: 50%, 20 matches

My stats page.

In summary, I'm clearly dragging my teams down when I play this particular ship.

 

I'm therefore asking for any advice on how to play the Implacable.  In what way should it be played differently from the Lexington and the Shokaku?

 

I do try to focus on the destroyers in the beginning but I also try to weigh that against the difficulty of finding them vs. doing damage against other targets.  I've also wondered whether I'm staying too far from the action and therefore spending too much time flying to the targets, but I must weigh that against available cover and the risk of quick destruction.  My attempts at improving my performance have been futile.

 

I'm attaching four replays, if anyone can be bothered to analyze and criticize.  These are my last 4, not something cherry-picked.

20191031_124540_PBSA108-Implacable_42_Neighbors.wowsreplay

20191031_120025_PBSA108-Implacable_28_naval_mission.wowsreplay

20191030_124550_PBSA108-Implacable_15_NE_north.wowsreplay

20191030_120345_PBSA108-Implacable_50_Gold_harbor.wowsreplay

u look like a torp guy

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1 hour ago, Chips_uk said:

I don't play carriers - but one thing struck me. Of your higher win rates, how many of those were against Implacable carriers? :P 

Which carriers do you often get opposed to etc. Win rates never tell the entire story, though they should ameliorate out of time, if it's a fundamentally flawed ship and you're not facing the same ones but much stronger ones - then that may be a strong indication as to why.

My damage is much lower, but I keep up the WR even in weekends. 

Because I always troll anything that caps. Also, I use the fighters offensively. 

That is, I will put them ~10k from the enemy CV... and from BBs... just out of range of their AA, but spotting them.

There's always a few BBS very gratefull blasting their butts after that. Same thing with camping cruisers and BBs. 

I keep an eye out for ships running away, and then I try to blap them as well. 

 

8 minutes ago, NoobySkooby said:

Oddly enough she was my first T 10 CV, now she is my only one, sold the rest, when playing her I just regard her as a T8 CV even though she is not.One idea my clan boss gave me was to carpet bomb DD's, they don't really expect that.

How about torping them. Yes you can. Swoop on them, but do not launch... it will scare them and they will run. 

Then, when they do not evade anymore (because they think it's BS anyway), you launch torps (aim well ahead... they are FASSSSTT...).

Next time you dive, they will smoke up... keep an eye where they are gonna stop... make sure you hit. :Smile_trollface:

Takes practise, but worth it, two torps are enough. Sometyiems even one (if he's not full HP).

 I find torping DDs much more satisfying than carpetbombing them. Oh the salt. :Smile_playing:

 

Oh, and use the rockets on BBs. They'll all hit, almost all the time - and they set fires, too. 

One fly-out on the rockets should get you 8K. More if you set fire. 

 

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21 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

My damage is much lower, but I keep up the WR even in weekends. 

Because I always troll anything that caps. Also, I use the fighters offensively. 

That is, I will put them ~10k from the enemy CV... and from BBs... just out of range of their AA, but spotting them.

There's always a few BBS very gratefull blasting their butts after that. Same thing with camping cruisers and BBs. 

I keep an eye out for ships running away, and then I try to blap them as well. 

 

How about torping them. Yes you can. Swoop on them, but do not launch... it will scare them and they will run. 

Then, when they do not evade anymore (because they think it's BS anyway), you launch torps (aim well ahead... they are FASSSSTT...).

Next time you dive, they will smoke up... keep an eye where they are gonna stop... make sure you hit. :Smile_trollface:

Takes practise, but worth it, two torps are enough. Sometyiems even one (if he's not full HP).

 I find torping DDs much more satisfying than carpetbombing them. Oh the salt. :Smile_playing:

 

Oh, and use the rockets on BBs. They'll all hit, almost all the time - and they set fires, too. 

One fly-out on the rockets should get you 8K. More if you set fire. 

 

Good idea, I like that,will it work in a kaga?

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10 hours ago, NoobySkooby said:

Good idea, I like that,will it work in a kaga?

Countering caps definitely, hightier DDs are rather clumsy so I guess you should be able to torp them with decent results. Rockets on BBs can be considered an option when they are intact, as superstructure saturates quickly and is usually first target to shoot at.

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20 hours ago, Cazbol said:

I'm attaching four replays, if anyone can be bothered to analyze and criticize.  These are my last 4, not something cherry-picked.

20191031_124540_PBSA108-Implacable_42_Neighbors.wowsreplay

Watched this.

 

Strikes

1. Good scouting at the start with RF, you ended up finding a DD and delaying B cap - good.

2. Then RF again, you went C trying to strike a Cleveland (since enemy CV covered the Kidd with fighter)- dont like this.

3. Then DB on the exposed fuso, good hits and fires. Carrier moving up toward C - good.

4+5. Warspite commits kamikaze by Budyoni torpedoes. No choice but TB the solo Budyoni, he is close to detecting your CV - good.

6. Using RFs to strike the Hipper once for 6k - dont like this.

7+8: DB then TB strike on Fuso - good. Game ends (loss).

 

Evaluation

2: Not sure why you didnt return to B and keep focusing the DD untill it smoked up or left the cap. You might have prevented B getting capped. If the DD had TRB, you could kill him. 

3: Notice the DD has taken B and nobody contesting. Also A i completely lost, so the strike there was wasted

4. DD gets itself killed. B still in enemy hands and remains so untill the end.

6: Game probably lost at this point due to potato team, but if try-harding: Hipper is irrelevant. Help the friendly NM by killing one of the 2 enemy BB. I would strike the 25% Fuso again with DBs, maybe using a slingshot strike on the (closer) Arizona on the way. Keep focusing Fuso untill dead (either another slingshot DB on Arizona to help kill off his AA, or drop as many TBs on the Fuso as possible)

7+8: you do as above - excellenty executed too. Setting fires or burning DCPs on multiple BBs will help you kill them off faster if AA allows you to strike both in one sortie.

 

Conclusion

Loss mostly due to your teammates playing reckless and dying when they shouldn't.

You scouted well and moved the CV closer to the action - very good stuff. Strikes were partially or fully on target (only 2nd RF strike missed).

You're a bit too fond of RFs in this game and target selection was a bit optimistic. Strike 2+6 had very little actual impact.

Instead you might have killed enemy DD in B or prevented the B capture, thus delaying enemy point gain and bought time to kill the Arizona, buying further time for your team.

In the best case, you and NM would survive on C, B would remain uncapped and enemy would still be on A. Still probably a loss because of enemy HP/ship advantage, unless you are much better at farming damage than enemy CV while dropping fighters for your NM, but it would be the only way to win. 

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22 hours ago, Cazbol said:

I am one of the worst Implacable players out there, with a 36.5% win rate after 52 matches, despite trying my very best.

I would really just give it time. Win rate is affected by things that are really out of your control. You can be down 15 % after 52 games. That's just 8 bad games.

 

I'm saying this because looking at your stats, your average damage and average frags in Implacable is up there with what you get with Lexington and Shokaku. Most likely your win rate will follow.

 

Of course there might be something in the Implacable that makes you go for kills and damage that doesn't matter for the win? But I doubt it. It's a common mistake with IJN carriers and their specialized planes. Say in the Shokaku you might have a lot of dive bombers left, so you take off and fly for the distant potato Scharnhorst with a big, fat citadel and weak AA, instead of focusing on the more critical target.

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21 hours ago, Yoshanai said:

This is true. You will be disappointed by Audacious. 

Audacious seems like a solid cv too be honest.

 

The lack of dot though in general is annoying but oh well.

 

I will focus on winrate for midway now before starting damage farming (doesnt help when your team refuses to shoot certain targets or your team just takes a dump on everything :/ ).

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22 hours ago, Cazbol said:

I'm attaching four replays, if anyone can be bothered to analyze and criticize.  These are my last 4, not something cherry-picked.

20191031_124540_PBSA108-Implacable_42_Neighbors.wowsreplay

I watched this one as well, the same as @GulvkluderGuld above.

 

The only big thing I notice is the early encounter with Shiratsuyu in B: You absolutely want to drop fighters on DD's to keep them spotted, or force waste smoke, or just lose their cool. Shiratsuyu has terrible AA so it alone can't shoot down the fighters. Leander and Dallas could've shot at it. When you turned around for your second attack run, you wouldn't have overshot with the rockets. This is the besuse for fighters, especially so with rocket planes.

 

I also wouldn't have left the Shiratsuyu alone. There was no reason to allow it to cap B, and preventing that likely would've been most efficient play for you. Le Fantasque in C plays well, but has a tough choice and leaves for B to look for the Shiratsuyu that's still alive. What if he didn't have to and could've stayed helping in C, with you assisting? You could've won both C and B?

 

In general, the strike order for CV's is the same as for any other ship: DD > CA with radar > Other CA > BB. Of course it's more nuanced, but that's a solid rule of thumb.

 

But overall that's really not 35 % play. It's good choices, accurate attacks, and playing close enough. That game was likely unwinnable for you. I don't think it would've swung around if the Shiratsuyu had been dead within a minute. But some games are closer, and those early calls can be important. :Smile_Default:

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1 hour ago, CptBarney said:

Audacious seems like a solid cv too be honest.

 

The lack of dot though in general is annoying but oh well.

Eh?....RN CVs are the kind of DoTs

 

They have a higher average damage than the other CVs of same tier.

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1 minute ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

Eh?....RN CVs are the kind of DoTs

 

They have a higher average damage than the other CVs of same tier.

Forgot to mention midway since i was focusing on muh meeting at the time lol.

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My own rule is to mercilessly hunt down destroyers first. I only go after other ships if all destroyers are gone or if a higher value target presents itself (i.e. something trying to cap, or at very low health).

If they smoke up, go look for the next one to get its position/strike it, but afterwards return to the first destroyer.

Too many CV’s that I encounter give up after attacking with a single squadron and don’t instantly kill it/if the destroyer smokes up.

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@GulvkluderGuld and @asalonen, many thanks for going through the replay.  This is helpful.

 

You're right, I should not have let the Shiratsuyu get away.  My thought at the time was that my team seemed to be ignoring B, so I wasn't helping anyone cap it by staying there, but you're right, getting rid of the destroyer would have been more valuable.

 

My move to C was meant to help our destroyer there, which was being hunted by their carrier.  Our destroyer was sunk just before I got there, but then I saw the Kidd which started reversing behind cover.  I tried an attack run on it but realized I wouldn't get the Kidd in my sights so I threw the salvo on the Cleveland instead.  I was therefore of no help at C.

 

The rocket attack on the Hipper was done for a similar reason.  The rocket planes were sent to finish off the Budyony, which they did, after which I found my planes so close to the Hipper that I decided to let one salvo off before recalling them.

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16 hours ago, NoobySkooby said:

Good idea, I like that,will it work in a kaga?

I suppose so. I do not have Kaga. But it works in all other CVs.

Ehhh. scratch that, I had little success bombing DDs in Ryujo, as it only has 2 AP bombs. :Smile_sad:

 

Kaga has HE-bombs... I suppose same as Lexington, try to release them at the last moment to get the best hits. 

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