Why are BBs hanging back and how to fix that?

[Inquisixion]

howdy folks,

 

been away from the game for about 2 years, came back about two-three weeks ago and have made a startling observation. BBs (battleships) hanging back trying to "snipe" at 17-18 kilometers, hiding behind islands and trying to shoot over them and leaving cruisers to "push" and, of course, get sunk. this means that if the enemy BBs then push themselves (as BBs should, at least IMHO) with 1 cruiser to kill off our DD(s) they obliterate our cruisers and then the "sniping" and island-hugging BBs are easy pickings as they have no support and are being pummeled by enemy BBs and have to dance around enemy torpedoes since their DDs don't have to fear our cruisers because they're dead (our cruisers). or vice versa (enemy BBs hiding, our team pushing and winning the game). is this some kind of new trend nowadays?

 

to give an example-

 

i just had a game in my Sinop (T7 RU BB) on the Estuary map when i went to the west cap circle along with 2 other BBs on our team, 2 cruisers and a DD (that DD has "tactically" hidden behind the island right in front of the cap and stayed there). me, thinking "hell, i have a couple of BBs with me, damn' our DD for not spotting" decided to do what BBs are supposed to do(?) and i pushed. to my surprise the rest of our BBs have stopped behind the very same island as that DD. and did nothing, since they could not see anything (DD still hiding behind the island) and when i spotted enemy ships they could not shoot at them because the island was in the way. after a couple of minutes and a lot of HP down i decided to follow suit and got behind cover. thing is, there were 1 enemy DD, 1 enemy cruiser and 2 enemy BBs shooting at me, while we had 2 DDs (another DD came to our aid and actually did some spotting), 2 Cruisers and 2 BBs plus myself. we could have easily won the fight had the rest of my team not decided to stop and hide. we did win the game, but only after i tanked over 2 mil. potential damage and the east flank came to help us..

 

thing is, i see stuff like that in almost every game. DDs and cruisers are there to push, while BBs are sailing along the map borders or hide behind islands. while i could understand highly accurate and/or somewhat squishy BBs (IJN, perhaps even high-tier US) sniping i do not understand why people get BBs with ton of HPs that can't hit anything more than 10km away and then simply not do stuff their ships are good at - pushing. is it because they decided to play BBs for their health pool? like "oh, i'm getting killed easily in cruisers, cruisers suck so i am going to play this big beast, it has a ton of HPs, they will not kill me that easy" and then they simple replicate their cruiser style of gameplay? or are they afraid of getting hit not realising that they can take some punishment by making the enemy focus them instead of squishy cruisers thus enabling the cruisers to flank/burn the enemies? i mean, i can understand not pushing when you're outnumbered or in a disadvantage, but when i see all BBs going to one side and then just sit there hiding instead of steamrolling through the enemy it makes me... sad. is there a way to encourage the BBs to do what they're designed to do?

 

_{disclaimer: i am by no means a "pro" player and am not here to rant about my team not winning the game for me, it's just when i played this game 2 years ago i saw none of this bull... well, to some degree yes, but not as prevalent as i see it now..}

[ColonelPete]

Quote

Why are BBs hanging back and how to fix that?

• they do not want to get sunk
• they do not know how to pressure the enemy without getting sunk
• you cannot fix it, but you can reduce it - years ago it was suggested to decrease gun ranges on ships and to make the range increase over the Tiers flatter

[Jethro_Grey]

There are many reasons why B.B. players choose to sit back. 

But if you really go to the core of those reasons, it all boils down to the player on the helm is a chicken. He may act like Rambo in chat or bullying his way through his team, but deep down at the very core of his being, he is a chicken. 

 

A Lion with card board as armor will still act like a Lion. A chicken with 400mm of armor will still act like a chicken. 

[Logan_MountStuart]

It's noticeable how much it has become the trend on the EU server particularly.

KOTS showed that even the good EU teams were far more passive and those teams who are aggressive were successful.

I'm a cruiser player, RN mainly, and on NA my damage is much higher but i die more quickly on occasion because I get pushed hard by BBs.  Now this makes picking them off easy with torps or using smoke to make them wary but they eventually force you out and in to trouble.

On EU my damage is lower, but I rarely, unless I potato, die until the team has been overrun or we are well behind and I start to push and that's mainly because the BBs are on the 1 line or its equivalent.

Unfortunately you now start to see Cruisers doing the same thing, yesterday a Smolensk, extremely annoying, I won't say powerful as I think people are working out how to combat it, sailed along the A rank firing HE from 17-19km and doing absolutely nothing to help the team, Henri IV and others can be seen doing the same thing, but that's not necessarily the players fault.

It might turn around again but until then, sadly, the extreme range sniping will continue.

[Kenjiro_]

BBs hanging back was always a problem but now with the frickkin' HE spam meta, it is at its peak and it won't be fixed or even reduced under these terms...

[Myrmidon19]

It's just simple bystander dynamics. No one wants to be first and put their nuts on the block in case no one supports them and it's all for nothing. You see the same thing with destroyers, many are scared to scout, cap, even contest caps because they know enemy DDs will spot them doing the same thing and they'll be focused by half the enemy team with no support because every other ship, regardless of class, is hanging back. It's more or less random though, in other games you'll have ballsy captains grouping up and making committed pushes and people in turn will follow them because lemmings follow strength, if that strength is everyone blobbing up at the back that's where they'll sit, if the strength is a group moving forward it'll generally spur them on. I can't be the only one who feels a hell of a lot more secure when pushing with people I actually know, most of the fear in pushing even when you're in a group is people trailing off in all directions and leaving you.

[Starchy_Tuber]

45 minutes ago, iTchyfoot said:

howdy folks,

 

been away from the game for about 2 years, came back about two-three weeks ago and have made a startling observation. BBs (battleships) hanging back trying to "snipe" at 17-18 kilometers, hiding behind islands and trying to shoot over them and leaving cruisers to "push" and, of course, get sunk. this means that if the enemy BBs then push themselves (as BBs should, at least IMHO) with 1 cruiser to kill off our DD(s) they obliterate our cruisers and then the "sniping" and island-hugging BBs are easy pickings as they have no support and are being pummeled by enemy BBs and have to dance around enemy torpedoes since their DDs don't have to fear our cruisers because they're dead (our cruisers). or vice versa (enemy BBs hiding, our team pushing and winning the game). is this some kind of new trend nowadays?

 

to give an example-

 

i just had a game in my Sinop (T7 RU BB) on the Estuary map when i went to the west cap circle along with 2 other BBs on our team, 2 cruisers and a DD (that DD has "tactically" hidden behind the island right in front of the cap and stayed there). me, thinking "hell, i have a couple of BBs with me, damn' our DD for not spotting" decided to do what BBs are supposed to do(?) and i pushed. to my surprise the rest of our BBs have stopped behind the very same island as that DD. and did nothing, since they could not see anything (DD still hiding behind the island) and when i spotted enemy ships they could not shoot at them because the island was in the way. after a couple of minutes and a lot of HP down i decided to follow suit and got behind cover. thing is, there were 1 enemy DD, 1 enemy cruiser and 2 enemy BBs shooting at me, while we had 2 DDs (another DD came to our aid and actually did some spotting), 2 Cruisers and 2 BBs plus myself. we could have easily won the fight had the rest of my team not decided to stop and hide. we did win the game, but only after i tanked over 2 mil. potential damage and the east flank came to help us..

 

thing is, i see stuff like that in almost every game. DDs and cruisers are there to push, while BBs are sailing along the map borders or hide behind islands. while i could understand highly accurate and/or somewhat squishy BBs (IJN, perhaps even high-tier US) sniping i do not understand why people get BBs with ton of HPs that can't hit anything more than 10km away and then simply not do stuff their ships are good at - pushing. is it because they decided to play BBs for their health pool? like "oh, i'm getting killed easily in cruisers, cruisers suck so i am going to play this big beast, it has a ton of HPs, they will not kill me that easy" and then they simple replicate their cruiser style of gameplay? or are they afraid of getting hit not realising that they can take some punishment by making the enemy focus them instead of squishy cruisers thus enabling the cruisers to flank/burn the enemies? i mean, i can understand not pushing when you're outnumbered or in a disadvantage, but when i see all BBs going to one side and then just sit there hiding instead of steamrolling through the enemy it makes me... sad. is there a way to encourage the BBs to do what they're designed to do?

 

_{disclaimer: i am by no means a "pro" player and am not here to rant about my team not winning the game for me, it's just when i played this game 2 years ago i saw none of this bull... well, to some degree yes, but not as prevalent as i see it now..}

HE Spam Meta.
 

<End>

[bEtHeNs]

If secondaries had the same range and acuracy as the primary guns of same caliber bbs would be more confident. Balance reasons make the secondaries be maned by seriusly alcoholic gunners.

[ClappingLollies]

1 hour ago, iTchyfoot said:

is this some kind of new trend nowadays?

No, its one of the age old questions. How did the big bang happen? What was before it?  What came first: The chicken or the egg? How do you fix BB players? There is no answer. 

[bEtHeNs]

1 minuto antes, MortenTardo dijo:

No, its one of the age old questions. How did the big bang happen? What was before it?  What came first: The chicken or the egg? How do you fix BB players? There is not answer. 

Read bEtHeNs answer...

[ClappingLollies]

1 minute ago, bEtHeNs said:

Read bEtHeNs answer...

I did. 

[bEtHeNs]

Justo ahora, MortenTardo dijo:

I did. 

Good, good.

[Rionnen_marksman]

1. Lower gun ranges to less than 20km

2. make accuracy at long range terrible 

3. Reward things other than damage at higher rates

4. Fix HE spam meta (don’t ask me how... maybe create a ‘fire saturation’ mechanic where after so many fires you’re immune to them (10?)

5. Create a proximity to cap bonus

 

i dunno, some ideas.

[Peffers]

always been that way.  it is teh Noob class.

 

[250swb]

There is a simple dichotomy in the game irrespective of ship type, abuse about 'who should be doing what' is so prevalent either in-game or on the forum that nobody wants to be the first to do anything. The people who do most bitching about other players are the same people who are paralysing the player base into inaction or exhibiting some fighting spirit.

[GulvkluderGuld]

Imagine an invasion around every island waifu and the outermost 2 rows/columns of the map by Sharks with lasers strapped to their head.

 

....Unless BBs and HE spammers pay WG 1 million credits 

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

Why should you get close if you can kill something from 20km away?

[Hugh_Ruka]

how to fix ? more asashios, smolensks and of course submarines ....

[Deckeru_Maiku]

CVs should gain the  options to use special torpedoes that do a multitude of normal damage against BBs, but are useless against all other ships. Then raise the experience given for damage to BBs about 150%.

Wait and see what happens...

 

 

 

 

 

BBs will still hump border... and call their CV to give AA cover ^^

[Major_Damage225]

I got two simple fixes for BB border battalions. 

Fix no1:

 

Fix no2: if one or more BB humps border a squad of AI ships comes to greet them, and this ship specifically. 

 

Bonus 3d option is have the ships auto detonate  after more then 1min of border surfing. 

I know the fixes above are a bit xtreme but looking at it from a effective point of view, they would work instantly to fix the issue. 

[Rionnen_marksman]

6 minutes ago, Major_Damage225 said:

I got two simple fixes for BB border battalions. 

Fix no1:

 

Fix no2: if one or more BB humps border a squad of AI ships comes to greet them, and this ship specifically. 

 

Bonus 3d option is have the ships auto detonate  after more then 1min of border surfing. 

I know the fixes above are a bit xtreme but looking at it from a effective point of view, they would work instantly to fix the issue. 

What the hell is that thing?

 

25 torps?! Is that per side?! 

[Major_Damage225]

1 minute ago, Rionnen_marksman said:

What the hell is that thing?

 

25 torps?! Is that per side?! 

IJN Kitakami, 20 610mm meme launchers on either side for a combined 40 toros, was removed after first ranked post CBT 

[Rionnen_marksman]

5 minutes ago, Major_Damage225 said:

IJN Kitakami, 20 610mm meme launchers on either side for a combined 40 toros, was removed after first ranked post CBT 

I want one lol 

[Camperdown]

I think the solution is to nerf accuracy at long range. Lower hit rate at > 15 K by 50% or more.

[Major_Damage225]

3 minutes ago, Rionnen_marksman said:

I want one lol 

Many do, but, since it was the TK recorder, WG pulled it and for now they dont intend to put it back, concidering todays players misuse torps regularly i doubt she would come back (although i wont stop hoping)..... Unless they find sekret blueprints for the Rashian version 

TBF the ship was usless in 9 out of 10 battles, i remember when she was spotted the whole team instantly went for her, everytime. 

That sayd shes a uneque ship i hope somday to see in WoWs again