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Very interesting comments by WG's "SubOctavian" regarding "Russian BIAS"...

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1 hour ago, Panocek said:

USN 5"/38 are/were hardcapped in range at 16km or so "for historical accuracy". That and apparently someone got offended when Fletcher opened fire at someone at 18km :cap_book:

I have no idea what the maximum ranges used to be and how they were capped. I wasn't aware that max ranges could be hardcapped to disregard range extention mods like the captain skill and the module stuff, if that is what you're referring to.

 

In any way, if Smolensk would need to get nerfed, I'd vastly prefer it to get a reload nerf instead of a range nerf as range is really not the main issue here.

Compare a reload-nerfed Smolensk to something like a Henri or Zao or something. Railguns with great fire chance for each volley, but not the quite insanely quick reload it has now. I think this would work and not offend as many people.

Limiting its range...I'm not a big fan of this. The gun arcs don't work as easily as the Atlanta ones for instance.

 

And I'm all for having unique ships in the game. Lets not put all the ships into a single unitysausage :Smile-_tongue:

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59 minutes ago, G01ngToxicCommand0 said:

That is true from Wargaming's current game development strategy, but I believe this to be the wrong way to go about it.

Keeping pumping out new ships and tech lines in order to stimulate the player base to grind those lines do nothing positive for the game experience and long term player retention - it only keeps players grinding but not enjoying the game.

If Wargaming decided to focus on developing better game mechanics, game modes and competetive game modes where the players' enjoyment of the game experience is the primary tool for stimulating the player base to spend money on the game, I believe it would lead to a better game, higher player retention/recruitment and generate more revenue for Wargaming.

Now this is a quality post right there, if you ask me.

 

WG is trying to give us stuff to do, this they are seeing very accurately I believe. WG isn't stupid.

But they are missing some clear things otoh and that is a waste.

 

Anyway, they are trying to give us more stuff to work for like more freemiums (which me personally, I actually like this, along with also liking the creation of new tech tree lines) and this is all good and fine and such.

But when it comes to retention...one thing that creates a lot of retention are the game modes that are a bit neglected like (permanent) operations. I could argue coop is also neglected but this is 1) not really true and 2) I think coop is pretty much perfect as it is right now. But operations, half of them have been missing for half a year or longer? And even then I keep seeing the same people over and over in Narai for instance. This is player retention! Isn't that what Wargaming wants?

But at some point even the toughest operations die-hards will start to get tired of it and that would be a waste.

 

Both of my friends bought Scharnhorst partially because I advised them to do so as it's a good ship for operations as well as being a fun ship for coop and still useable for random battles. It does generate income for Wargaming. I wouldn't have gotten Cossack (though I probably would have gotten Cossack regardless, can't remember the details atm) and especially Sims if it hadn't been for Dynamo. And some of my tech tree tier 6 ships have a permacamo now, because of operations. And I got over 500k xp on my Ryujo after I had reset Shokaku and could unlock Shokaku right away with all the xp my Ryujo had accumulated. That's how much I play these ships in ops.

 

I'm sorry for having kinda ignored your bit about it becoming more a chore to keep up instead of having fun. But you're basically right there anyway so not much more to add :Smile-_tongue:

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11 minutes ago, NothingButTheRain said:

I have no idea what the maximum ranges used to be and how they were capped. I wasn't aware that max ranges could be hardcapped to disregard range extention mods like the captain skill and the module stuff, if that is what you're referring to.

 

In any way, if Smolensk would need to get nerfed, I'd vastly prefer it to get a reload nerf instead of a range nerf as range is really not the main issue here.

Compare a reload-nerfed Smolensk to something like a Henri or Zao or something. Railguns with great fire chance for each volley, but not the quite insanely quick reload it has now. I think this would work and not offend as many people.

Limiting its range...I'm not a big fan of this. The gun arcs don't work as easily as the Atlanta ones for instance.

 

And I'm all for having unique ships in the game. Lets not put all the ships into a single unitysausage :Smile-_tongue:

Reload is fine. Range needs to go. It's the main issue. Good players can accurately spam BB's to death from 18km ago with ease - and the BB can't defend itself against that because Smolensk is pretty much unhittable at that range. It would also force Smolensk players to get closer to the action, making the ship punishable by cruisers more reliable. Max range for the Smolensk should be closer to 14.5km I guess.

Nerfing the reload would do absolutely nothing to the ship.

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8 minutes ago, Earl_of_Northesk said:

Reload is fine. Range needs to go. It's the main issue. Good players can accurately spam BB's to death from 18km ago with ease - and the BB can't defend itself against that because Smolensk is pretty much unhittable at that range. It would also force Smolensk players to get closer to the action, making the ship punishable by cruisers more reliable. Max range for the Smolensk should be closer to 14.5km I guess.

Nerfing the reload would do absolutely nothing to the ship.

They nerf range I want my coal back as this ship is pointless then, you cant really lob over islands unless you are far away from them, having atlanta level of range and gun caliber at T10 is pointless regardless of dpm, just look at the number of Colberts you see around...

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7 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

They nerf range I want my coal back as this ship is pointless then, you cant really lob over islands unless you are far away from them, having atlanta level of range and gun caliber at T10 is pointless regardless of dpm, just look at the number of Colberts you see around...

Why? The ship is not a premium in any way. It was clear from day one it could be balanced just as any other ship. Tough luck. And if you rely on range to make your Smolensk work you are a) a perfect example of what is wrong with this ship and b) apparently not very competent. Minotaur, without HE and much less survivabilty, is perfectly playable with just 15.6 km range.

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3 minutes ago, Earl_of_Northesk said:

Why? The ship is not a premium in any way. It was clear from day one it could be balanced just as any other ship. Tough luck. And if you rely on range to make your Smolensk work you are a) a perfect example of what is wrong with this ship and b) apparently not very competent. Minotaur, without HE and much less survivabilty, is perfectly playable with just 15.6 km range.

Sure thing

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3 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

Sure thing

Im amongst the best 5% of Minotaur players by basically every metric. And I play the ship with 15.6 km range. So yeah, very sure thing.

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3 minutes ago, Earl_of_Northesk said:

Im amongst the best 5% of Minotaur players by basically every metric. And I play the ship with 15.6 km range. So yeah, very sure thing.

Cudos and yet I disagree, you know why? Becouse when you have long range you can choose to engage from long range or from close range, when you dont have long range well then there is only one option, having options always beats not having them in my book

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2 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

Cudos and yet I disagree, you know why? Becouse when you have long range you can choose to engage from long range or from close range, when you dont have long range well then there is only one option, having options always beats not having them in my book

"Having options" here results in a blatantly overpowered ship because it elevates the skill ceiling to an unhealthy level. And when smoke, 16 rapid firing HE guns and low concealment are "no options" in your bool, than you need to have a hard look at yourself and your playstyle.

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1 hour ago, Yedwy said:

Smolensk doesn need a nerf, if you stay perfectly positioned you just might survive few salvoes aent your way if not you are an instant Devstrike pinata for moat cas and all bbs, fact that the smoke alone lovers the skill floor of a ship so much is mostly due to the lasiness and incompetence of an average potato BB kevin... They cant/dont want to deal with any cruiser that has HE and a smoke ar the same time, they had more then their share of catering done...

Last week, Smolensk played more battles than Hindenburg and Zao combined - still had 50%+ WR and 82.k+ average damage. 

 

For a ship, that is so heavily played, maintaining such statistics is either a statistical miracle, or ship is really OP. 

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1 minute ago, mariouus said:

Last week, Smolensk played more battles than Hindenburg and Zao combined - still had 50%+ WR and 82.k+ average damage. 

 

For a ship, that is so heavily played, maintaining such statistics is either a statistical miracle, or ship is really OP. 

This. The amount of utter potatoes getting 100k+ average damage in this ship is absolutely staggering.

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58 minutes ago, Earl_of_Northesk said:

Reload is fine. Range needs to go. It's the main issue. Good players can accurately spam BB's to death from 18km ago with ease - and the BB can't defend itself against that because Smolensk is pretty much unhittable at that range. It would also force Smolensk players to get closer to the action, making the ship punishable by cruisers more reliable. Max range for the Smolensk should be closer to 14.5km I guess.

Nerfing the reload would do absolutely nothing to the ship.

I'm sorry but we're gonna have to disagree on this.

The excessive he spam needs to go and for that you would need to nerf its reload. Less reload == less spam and that is your main concern it seems.

 

I already gave examples of ships that have longer range and are not a problem. The range is not the main issue here, the he spam is.

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11 minutes ago, Earl_of_Northesk said:

This. The amount of utter potatoes getting 100k+ average damage in this ship is absolutely staggering.

Not a single CC thought it was a good idea and the HE Spam Meta was horrible enough before it...nobody asked for this ship... No multitude of forum posts complaining "There aren't enough HE Spammers in this game"....

Its simply yet another Russian-Bias OP ship to bully other players with an ever-lowered skill floor.

 

Get rid of it entirely and just refund the coal.

<End of>

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8 minutes ago, NothingButTheRain said:

I'm sorry but we're gonna have to disagree on this.

The excessive he spam needs to go and for that you would need to nerf its reload. Less reload == less spam and that is your main concern it seems.

 

I already gave examples of ships that have longer range and are not a problem. The range is not the main issue here, the he spam is.

It's not. The spam is fine. My main concern is the impunity the ship has due to it's absurd range. It is absurdly hard to punish. Even when relatively low HP, it can just fall back to an extreme range and continue shooting. That shouldn't be possible. A DPM nerf would do absolutely nothing except maybe lowering the average damage of this ship by 1 or 2k.

 

You are entirely, absolutely wrong about what the problem with this ship is. Your examples of longer ranged ships are also a totally pointless comparison.

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With range reduction, Smolensk could be "high risk, high reward" ship as forced to play closer but having tools to maximize its damage. Now with longer range you don't need to either out yourself in highly risky situations or you need to rely much on your concealment as you are constantly spamming from the range. And because of very good arcs you are still quite awarded while playing without putting yourself at high risk. Just reduction of DPM would not change much. Maybe it would need some small buffs to compensate for range reduction, like small increase in concealment but generally it shout be fine. WG should at least test it.  

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28 minutes ago, NothingButTheRain said:

No. The Smolensk spam is not fine.

Mutch lower range would make it high risk-high gain ship. In that case firerate is not that mutch of an issue. So it would be mostly fine.

 

Competent players could make it work. Incompetent players would get stomped. 

 

I do agree with @Earl_of_Northesk here. Biggest problem with Smolensk is its range. Stats shows it is a pinnacle of high gain/low risk ship at the moment. 

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One consideration is the skill factor; the higher the rate of fire the less skill is actually needed for aiming and leading. Some people can also make use of the weird ballistics of the high firing arcs by using islands for cover, while some may consider this a skill, I don't.

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2 hours ago, NothingButTheRain said:

I'm sorry but we're gonna have to disagree on this.

The excessive he spam needs to go and for that you would need to nerf its reload. Less reload == less spam and that is your main concern it seems.

 

I already gave examples of ships that have longer range and are not a problem. The range is not the main issue here, the he spam is.

The ships that have longer range also have a higher detectability, they can't stealth their way into 14 km range and pop smoke, use the entire smoke duration and then sneak back out of said range without being detected, nor do any of the cruisers with a high range and good arcs have smoke, they rely soley on manouvers or hugging islands because they are spotted all the time while shooting. 

Then there is the Smolensk who has 12,8 concealment WITHOUT ANY EQUIPMENT OR CAPTAIN SKILL and has smoke, and has range, and has rate of fire, and heal, and hydro (unlike the new Italian cruisers who don't even get hydro on any tier). 

So either decrease the range or concealment or both, because as of now Smolensk can hapily sit in smoke and dakka away at far range without getting spotted once. Then after that he has all the heals left to farm even more while kiting anything it wants. If you just decrease the rof it will still sit in smoke and farm the living crap out of you because he's safe and has all the time in the world.

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3 hours ago, Yedwy said:

Cudos and yet I disagree, you know why? Becouse when you have long range you can choose to engage from long range or from close range, when you dont have long range well then there is only one option, having options always beats not having them in my book

Can I have 10km torps back on my Khaba then ? I mean then I could have an option more to use ...

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2 hours ago, NothingButTheRain said:

I'm sorry but we're gonna have to disagree on this.

The excessive he spam needs to go and for that you would need to nerf its reload. Less reload == less spam and that is your main concern it seems.

 

I already gave examples of ships that have longer range and are not a problem. The range is not the main issue here, the he spam is.

Actually range nerf would be fine. Simply remove the GFCS Mod 2 from the ship and problem solved. Then Smolensk will have to trade range for stealth or IFHE while ATM it can have all 3 without issues. The ship will have about 5km of free range it can work with while being easier approachable by either DD or Radar.

 

Or increase the drag on the shells so they lose speed faster (like Harugumo and the othe IJN 100mm guns).

 

Either of those will work ...

 

 

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Range nerf (doesn't need to be huge if there's additional nerf) and some additional armour change imo. Survivability needs to be lowered. It's shown again and again in games, last ships alive - the Smolensks. It was a similar issue with Khabas a few years back, less so but similar - it had too few good counters and usually it was effective against any ships. Too versatile and not enough threats to it.

1 hour ago, CrniVrag said:

Then there is the Smolensk who has 12,8 concealment WITHOUT ANY EQUIPMENT OR CAPTAIN SKILL and has smoke, and has range, and has rate of fire, and heal, and hydro (unlike the new Italian cruisers who don't even get hydro on any tier).

You forgot torps, not to mention the low profile, the slimness and the armour layout, I'm not sure but it's probably fairly quick and agile too...

Who the hell thought this ship needed all these features?

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first battle of this season: shot-19_10.23_19_20.12-0447.thumb.jpg.dd91d070c699a61377525e74383c6c1b.jpg

 

also, in my last 5 matches with the smolesnk thanks to the change of captain skill from the one with ifhe to the one without it and demo expert i have something around 190-210k average damage

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15 minutes ago, Flavio1997 said:

first battle of this season: shot-19_10.23_19_20.12-0447.thumb.jpg.dd91d070c699a61377525e74383c6c1b.jpg

 

also, in my last 5 matches with the smolesnk thanks to the change of captain skill from the one with ifhe to the one without it and demo expert i have something around 190-210k average damage

"no bias to see, just move along!"

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