(Permanently) Disabled Turrets

[BruceRKF]

Hi everyone.

Just a question about game mechanics. Does anyone know how it is possible for a turret to become permanently disabled without being incapacitated previously? I had a game in the Scharnhorst yesterday and lost my B turret about 5 minutes into the game with only 6k damage taken until then. Colorado destroyed it from about 13 km. It was a pretty close game and we might have been able to win if I had that DPM.

I know that there is a health pool for turrets and when it is depleted, the turret can get destroyed. It has happened to me before even in BBs, but this time it was just so blatant and annoying so early in the game. And so finally, after years, I thought I have to at least know why and how.

 

[Uglesett]

Well.... yes?

 

Damage to turrets is separate from your hull hit points, so how much damage you've taken otherwise doesn't really matter. Theoretically it's possible to lose all of your weapons while still having 100% of your hull hit points.

 

Usually it takes a fair bit of damage to knock out a turret permanently, so it's rare that it happens in one go. But if you are unlucky and take multiple large calibre AP shells to the same turret simultaneously, it'll get destroyed immediately.

[_DemonGuard_]

9 minutes ago, BruceRKF said:

Does anyone know how it is possible for a turret to become permanently disabled without being incapacitated previously?

If the hitpoints of a turret are reduced to zero, it gets destroyed permanently.

[gopher31]

Happens a lot to the french 380s.

I once saw a very sad sight of a Jean Bart with both turrets destroyed.

[BruceRKF]

4 minutes ago, _DemonGuard_ said:

If the hitpoints of a turret are reduced to zero, it gets destroyed permanently.

So it's that simple? I mean, is one Colorado shell enough to take out a Scharnhorst's turret hp immediately or did she just get incredibly lucky and hit multiple shells at that one turret?

Also, is there any way to see how many hitpoints a ship's turrets have? Could be useful information to have.

[gopher31]

I do wish Wargaming would give us the hitpoints of these modules and of the bow stern and superstructure. Unfortunately, they don't.

German turrets are usually quite sturdy but with 283mm Scharnhorst guns might be more vulnerable.

[Uglesett]

12 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

Happens a lot to the french 380s.

I once saw a very sad sight of a Jean Bart with both turrets destroyed.

First game I ever had in the JB I lost one turret after about four minutes 

[black_falcon120]

Whenever a turret takes damage there is a chance it issei's incapacitated, but when its hit points hit 0, it is always destroyed. 

[LordTareq]

Learned something new, I thought main turrets could only be destroyed if already disabled.

[Uglesett]

12 minutes ago, BruceRKF said:

So it's that simple?

Yup.

I mean, is one Colorado shell enough to take out a Scharnhorst's turret hp immediately or did she just get incredibly lucky and hit multiple shells at that one turret?

Probably got lucky. I don't think the damage from a single shell is enough to knock out a main battery turret, but I don't know the health of Scharn turrets specifically.

 

Also note that turrets aren't necessarily temporarily disabled whenever they take damage, there's a random element to it. So the turret could have taken damage previously but you got lucky with the dice rolls and it was never temporarily disabled before it got permanently knocked out.

[BruceRKF]

14 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

I do wish Wargaming would give us the hitpoints of these modules and of the bow stern and superstructure. Unfortunately, they don't.

German turrets are usually quite sturdy but with 283mm Scharnhorst guns might be more vulnerable.

Yeah, having that information would help to know how sturdy your turrets are. You get the armour thickness, but without having the HP value that only tells us whether a turret can get disabled (by a shell penetration). You could for example know how likely it is for your turret to get knocked out completely if you have an estimation of how much HP is has (left) and take that into your calculations whether to push in close or rather stay at range.

[Jethro_Grey]

26 minutes ago, BruceRKF said:

So it's that simple? I mean, is one Colorado shell enough to take out a Scharnhorst's turret hp immediately or did she just get incredibly lucky and hit multiple shells at that one turret?

Also, is there any way to see how many hitpoints a ship's turrets have? Could be useful information to have.

 

Yes and no. 

Having this Information could possibly lead to undesired player behaviour.. 

 

BB players might become even more careful with their under-armored BBs when the see their turret HP pool dropping.

And if there's Information, people could create mods to exploit that, and turret sniping might become a thing. 

[BlackYeti]

52 minutes ago, black_falcon120 said:

Whenever a turret takes damage there is a chance it issei's incapacitated, but when its hit points hit 0, it is always destroyed. 

Isn't it like when it's HP gets to 0 turret gets incapacitated with a CHANCE to get destroyed permanently? Like a saving throw is being made at certain HP thresholds? Because Preventive Maintenance and MAM1 would suggest this is the case.

 

That said I'm finding french turrets most vulnerable, especially Dunk and Rich/JB

[Egoleter]

57 minutes ago, Jethro_Grey said:

and turret sniping might become a thing. 

It's not like I'm not already trying that if I see the opportunity.

The vulnerable backside of a turret can make for a nice target. An opponent without or with a reduced number of weapons is a lesser threat to you and your team. Of course a dead opponent is even better. So it is a situational choice.

[pra3y]

1 hour ago, Jethro_Grey said:

and turret sniping might become a thing. 

You mean you guys don't try it 

 

30 minutes ago, BlackYeti said:

That said I'm finding french turrets most vulnerable, especially Dunk and Rich/JB

I remember a match in my Alsac against a JB that was nose in at me. Wasn't deliberate but since he was sitting nose in at me every salvo incapacitated one of the guns and after a few salvos both guns were permernantly knocked out. That was one hilarious gunfight.

 

I think it was after that where i try to aim for the enemy's turret, mostly the BB's, to try and knock em out if they weren't showing broadsides.

[Jethro_Grey]

16 minutes ago, Egoleter said:

It's not like I'm not already trying that if I see the opportunity.

The vulnerable backside of a turret can make for a nice target. An opponent without or with a reduced number of weapons is a lesser threat to you and your team. Of course a dead opponent is even better. So it is a situational choice.

 

3 minutes ago, pra3y said:

You mean you guys don't try it 

 

I remember a match in my Alsac against a JB that was nose in at me. Wasn't deliberate but since he was sitting nose in at me every salvo incapacitated one of the guns and after a few salvos both guns were permernantly knocked out. That was one hilarious gunfight.

 

I think it was after that where i try to aim for the enemy's turret, mostly the BB's, to try and knock em out if they weren't showing broadsides.

 

I try to go for turrets to if the opportunity arises. 

But i rather not see a larger part of the player base do the same... ^^

Mostly players who actually can aim, but end up on the enemy team, but also players who can't aim for $hit and end up on my team.

 

So yeah, this kind of info should stay where it is atm, in the deepest depths of WGs spreadsheets.

[Durin_VI]

One time I had the extraordinary luck of losing all three turrets of my Des Moines...tons of fun was left for me...:)

[piritskenyer]

2 hours ago, Jethro_Grey said:

 

[...] 

And if there's Information, people could create mods to exploit that, and turret sniping might become a thing. 

It might already be a thing. Few days ago a New Orleans was bowtanking my Eddy, and I decided to shoot his turrets in the face as best I could. Managed to disable one and destroy the other before he got obliterated by our Richie. 

[Bear__Necessities]

2 hours ago, Jethro_Grey said:

and turret sniping might become a thing. 

Kinda already is, some ships excel at it. Like Des Moine. I love knocking out enemy turrets when they think they can push me when i'm in my DM 

 

[Fat_Maniac]

2 hours ago, Jethro_Grey said:

 

Yes and no. 

Having this Information could possibly lead to undesired player behaviour.. 

 

BB players might become even more careful with their under-armored BBs when the see their turret HP pool dropping.

And if there's Information, people could create mods to exploit that, and turret sniping might become a thing. 

Turret sniping is already a thing.

 

If I'm kiting away from or pushing into a well angled enemy, I will aim to take out his turrets. The number of players that suddenly think it's ok to turn away and expose their broadside to bring their rear or center turrets into play, is amazing. Plus if he doesn't, it's one less turret of shells he can throw at me.

[Jethro_Grey]

1 hour ago, Durin_VI said:

One time I had the extraordinary luck of losing all three turrets of my Des Moines...tons of fun was left for me...:)

Specc into seondaries, problem solved. ^^

38 minutes ago, piritskenyer said:

It might already be a thing. Few days ago a New Orleans was bowtanking my Eddy, and I decided to shoot his turrets in the face as best I could. Managed to disable one and destroy the other before he got obliterated by our Richie. 

+

26 minutes ago, Bear_Necessities said:

Kinda already is, some ships excel at it. Like Des Moine. I love knocking out enemy turrets when they think they can push me when i'm in my DM 

 

+

1 minute ago, Fat_Maniac said:

Turret sniping is already a thing.

 

If I'm kiting away from or pushing into a well angled enemy, I will aim to take out his turrets. The number of players that suddenly think it's ok to turn away and expose their broadside to bring their rear or center turrets into play, is amazing. Plus if he doesn't, it's one less turret of shells he can throw at me.

I doubt that there are many players actively targeting turrets, as the majority of players doesn't visit the forums where such things get discussed.

Expose this to the entire playerbase, and things could get interesting very fast indeed. 

[BruceRKF]

At very close ranges at a bow in target that has a considerable amount of health left it sometimes is better to go for the turrets instead of trying to get pens on bow or superstructure. It would take some time to deplete all that health, so why not make sure it can't shoot back first? It's different against low health targets, obviously, of which you just should get rid asap.

[black_falcon120]

3 hours ago, BlackYeti said:

Isn't it like when it's HP gets to 0 turret gets incapacitated with a CHANCE to get destroyed permanently? Like a saving throw is being made at certain HP thresholds? Because Preventive Maintenance and MAM1 would suggest this is the case.

 

That said I'm finding french turrets most vulnerable, especially Dunk and Rich/JB

could anyone confirm?

[DFens_666]

On a different note, permanently losing Turrets/Tubes should not be a thing anymore. Its horrendously unfun and is unnecessary from a gameplay pov. Yes, disabling them is ok ofc, but not losing them.

DDs can lose half their armament to rocket planes...

[T0byJug]

2 hours ago, Durin_VI said:

One time I had the extraordinary luck of losing all three turrets of my Des Moines...tons of fun was left for me...:)

You have no idea mate.. Remember the old tier 6 Ognavoi with 4km torps  7km detection and the old DD turret mechanic.. It was normal for the Ognavoi to still have 90%+ health lost both turrets and only be left with 4km torps