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PaulPKennedy

DD Tactics for first 5 minuets

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Hi all

 

I have mostly been playing cruisers but last few months I have gone down the DD line and finding it frustrating to say the least. I know a lot of this has been covered in the "why are DD" thread but I wanted to share my experiences and find out what I am doing wrong. I know this will infuriate many of the experienced members so apologies for that. Anyway...

 

Game starts, I am trying to spot or cap for my team, I head towards capture point looking but bug out if I get spotted. Sometimes that works. I am hoping a cruiser follows me close enough to provide support if I am spotted by another DD, when that happens I usually get the cap or at least contest the cap. What usually happens is I get spotted, there is no support and every ship is aiming at me and usually hitting. In games that my team has won, usually DD and cruisers are at least trying to cap, but I am finding a lot of people hanging back not wanting to commit. We lose all the caps then and enemy wins 1000 to 120 ! Sometimes I think, well hang back just ahead of the main team, when I do that I feel I am not contributing and in chat usually people moan, cant say I blame them.  When not capping I am usually trying to spot for the team and getting off torps. Looked at many a YouTube clip to help but they are usually players so much better than me with spacial awareness that I do not have. It also seems at least in higher VIII tears and up that you need a 19 point captain to make your ship at least competitive. 

 

I find my best games are ones that I have cruiser support. My worst games are where I have no support and if I manage to stay alive I am sailing about trying to keep it that way. I am not going to even mention the  CV  in some games ! When I see those I think " only way to live to to stick within a 1km of a good AA ship and not contribute again" 

 

I really like DD's though as fast and agile and not having to wait 30 seconds for a gun reload, and I want to improve my DD play and help the team.

 

So sorry for such an obvious noob question that has no doubt been covered many times, but what would you do to stay alive, and contribute to the team, for the first 5 minuets anyway ?

 

 

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Basically play in division. Relying on random teammates to do more than die for the emperor can lead you only into disappointment.

 

Other than that... check team lineup - are CVs around? How many radar ships?

 

In DD you don't deal with carrier, carrier deals with you. You only semi-reliable defense against fly boys is smoke, don't expect AA to do anything unless CV player is speschul enough to reliably catch those puny amount of flak bursts you're spewing out. Against radars, if you have to operate within range of one, have escape route to hard cover ready to GTFO whenever you get radared.

 

For captain build, whole "competitive" ends at 10 points, after securing Last Stand, Survivability Expert and Concealment. Anything on top of that is nice extra. Two DD lines, Akizuki gunboats and tier 9 and 10 UK kinda need IFHE to get the most out of them, so thats 14lvl captain there.

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As you already said: spot and optionally cap.

  • make sure you know what enemy DD you can encounter and if they outspot you, your approach depends on that
  • make sure that you know if the enemy has radar and where these ships can be
  • when you approach a cap, take a look where your team is and where the enemy are
  • when you are closer to the enemy cruiser/BB than an enemy DD can be to your team, you are too far in front
  • when you team does not support you, you cannot cap before you know where the enemies are, be more careful then, evade the cap until you know
  • caps tell the enemy where you are, making ambushes on you easy
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3 minutes ago, PaulPKennedy said:

So sorry for such an obvious noob question that has no doubt been covered many times, but what would you do to stay alive, and contribute to the team, for the first 5 minuets anyway ?

 

You need an exit strategy - always. If you keep that in mind, try to go as far as possible to spot for your team (or get a cap). Being spotted is not always bad, as long as you cant get shot at.

Depending on what DD you play, you either want to spot the opponent DD (f.e. IJN DDs have good concealment) so your team can get rid of it, or if you are a gunboat DD, you want to actively fight the enemy DD. If you get rid of the enemy DD, you get freedom of movement. More or less atleast, because things like Radar and CVs exist.

And sometimes losing a bit of your health isnt the end of the world, but dying is :Smile-_tongue: As long as you can outtrade the enemy DD, you should be good to go.

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Beta Tester
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Everyday I come home hoping my parents bought me a Ducati, yet everyday is a disappointment. Don't put hope on your team, you are the one that has to make it happen. 
What DDs are you playing with what ship build & captain skills?

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16 minutes ago, Panocek said:

In DD you don't deal with carrier, carrier deals with you.

 

Oh, so elegantly put. This is the reality with CVs in a DD.

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27 minutes ago, PaulPKennedy said:

Hi all

 

I have mostly been playing cruisers but last few months I have gone down the DD line and finding it frustrating to say the least. I know a lot of this has been covered in the "why are DD" thread but I wanted to share my experiences and find out what I am doing wrong. I know this will infuriate many of the experienced members so apologies for that. Anyway...

 

Game starts, I am trying to spot or cap for my team, I head towards capture point looking but bug out if I get spotted. Sometimes that works. I am hoping a cruiser follows me close enough to provide support if I am spotted by another DD, when that happens I usually get the cap or at least contest the cap. What usually happens is I get spotted, there is no support and every ship is aiming at me and usually hitting. In games that my team has won, usually DD and cruisers are at least trying to cap, but I am finding a lot of people hanging back not wanting to commit. We lose all the caps then and enemy wins 1000 to 120 ! Sometimes I think, well hang back just ahead of the main team, when I do that I feel I am not contributing and in chat usually people moan, cant say I blame them.  When not capping I am usually trying to spot for the team and getting off torps. Looked at many a YouTube clip to help but they are usually players so much better than me with spacial awareness that I do not have. It also seems at least in higher VIII tears and up that you need a 19 point captain to make your ship at least competitive. 

 

I find my best games are ones that I have cruiser support. My worst games are where I have no support and if I manage to stay alive I am sailing about trying to keep it that way. I am not going to even mention the  CV  in some games ! When I see those I think " only way to live to to stick within a 1km of a good AA ship and not contribute again" 

 

I really like DD's though as fast and agile and not having to wait 30 seconds for a gun reload, and I want to improve my DD play and help the team.

 

So sorry for such an obvious noob question that has no doubt been covered many times, but what would you do to stay alive, and contribute to the team, for the first 5 minuets anyway ?

 

 

Some good advice here already.

I am a DD main and think it is entirely possible to play DDs aggressively and live.

My take:

- play a stealthy DD (detectability < 6 km)

- check the team lineup before start for CVs and radar

- if CV and radar, watch carefully as you approach cap whether you have support. No support: try cap but be ready to run

- with support: cap but do not smoke, turn as soon as you cap to be able to run

- spotted: turn and smoke when running away

- maneouvre wildly as long as you are spotted. Lots of enemies: hold your fire to end spot

- aircraft: turn off AA until spotted then activate sector

 

Practice this a few times until you find your style. You will die one in 10 games but that's OK. Optimize to not lose more than half your HP in first 5 minutes. Lose more: play more conservatively.

 

Good luck, we need more brave DD jockeys :Smile_glasses:

 

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Weekend Tester
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What you are mostly lacking is experience, you have very few low tier battles in DDs and not many in total. A large part of what you described as spatial awareness is actually just experience, it's much easier to play when most of the things happening around you are just permutations of what you've seen earlier. And the problem with rushing up the tiers is that most others already have it, whereas you don't.

 

There has already been some solid advice in this thread about having exit strategies and such, but there is no simple answer to playing a DD successfully. You have to take risks and push as far as you can without getting killed, everything you need to do depends on the situation. You have to know the capabilities and probable locations of enemy DDs and radars especially, if it's a carrier game you're in luck because you're only just as screwed as any unicums on either team.

 

The best advice I can give is to get more experience - and that works best in an environment where not everyone else already has it.

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@OP You cant cap without heavy support unless you are certain what is there around the cap, and as soon as the circle starts ticking enemy will know you are there, so there are two ways to go about finding out whats lurking around without (well mostly) getting killed...

 

One - bypass the cap initially and go scout on the side but dont yolorush in, you need to be able to turn away and flee

Two - approach the cap so you can run away momentarily in case you are spoted or radared, this is done either by reversing in it or driving paralel to the expected enemy position so sou can turn away at speed

 

You should be familliar with spotting distances of the dds and radar cruisers in your MM spread to know where they can spot you as well...

 

As for random potatos in chat - basically ignore them, when moving in a group your position in relation to them should be such that you just about can spot an enemy before they are spotted by it with say a buffer of 1km or so, if they are farther away from the front then that they have no say in anything you do as the usless borderlicking BB snipers are usually those that have enough time on their hands to write "clever" stuff in chat...

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9 minutes ago, Altsak said:

 

Oh, so elegantly put. This is the reality with CVs in a DD.

Unless you are lucky and get me on the red team, hitting those damn DD's is a challenge so hard I move onto other stuff, every video  you watch it is so easy, not in my games.As for chat I turn mine off, always salt towards CV players,this infuriates me so off it goes.

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My to-do list is as follows.

 

1: Scout

2: Screen you team.

3: If possible, take out enemy DDs.

4: Cap if possible.

5: Help focus down lager ships.

 

At low tiers DDs can rush ahead and fight for the caps but that don't work in the higher tiers. There you have to wait for your team to push and "cover the cap" before you can take it.

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Alpha Tester, Korzár
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It is very nice to see topic like this :Smile_honoring:
You get some good advices and i can say just this:
In a DD you must be like a Argus. You must have eyes everywhere. What are all ships doing for example and what they will do in next few mins. Minimap is one of your best friends.
You must watching what is CV doing, from where and from what are torps comming.
And many many other other jobs like spot, capping etc.
It isn't an easy task, but if you are able learn it, then DDs are very good for enjoying fun in this game.

giphy.gif
Check my signature and invite to HelpMe discord for more advices :Smile_honoring:

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2 minutes ago, Hanse77SWE said:

My to-do list is as follows.

 

1: Scout

2: Screen you team.

3: If possible, take out enemy DDs.

4: Cap if possible.

5: Help focus down lager ships.

 

At low tiers DDs can rush ahead and fight for the caps but that don't work in the higher tiers. There you have to wait for your team to push and "cover the cap" before you can take it.

Sorry Hanse, simply do not agree. Capping in higher tiers is perfectly feasible. I manage better than 9 games out of 10.

My prio list:

1: scout  ✓

2: cap

3: take out enemy DDs ✓

4: put some fishes into enemy ships

 

 

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46 minutes ago, PaulPKennedy said:

. Looked at many a YouTube clip to help but they are usually players so much better than me with spacial awareness that I do not have.

I m sure someone will give advise but...

 

the videos on utube are not representative of the MM the average player is facing , but a selection of the uploaders best vids. Usually I will disregard them completely.

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1 minute ago, Camperdown said:

Sorry Hanse, simply do not agree. Capping in higher tiers is perfectly feasible. I manage better than 9 games out of 10.

My prio list:

1: scout  ✓

2: cap

3: take out enemy DDs ✓

4: put some fishes into enemy ships

 

 

Sorry, but I've died in a cap too many time to take that for granted so my rule of thumb is that if the team doesn't psuh for the cap then neither do I.

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Just now, Hanse77SWE said:

Sorry, but I've died in a cap too many time to take that for granted so my rule of thumb is that if the team doesn't psuh for the cap then neither do I.

Fair enough, I don't blame you. I just like a challenge :cap_haloween:

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Do spot

Do make sure you’re furtherest forward, but not too far.

Do Cap if possible but not essential at start of game 

Run RPF if you have captain skills

Try to kill or spot without being detected red DDs, unless too far forward team mates should quickly kill said DD

 

Do team up/ Division 

 

Don’t hide behind others 

Don’t die

Don’t charge into the cap

Don’t go static in smoke 

Don’t fire guns unless you have to/or to kill off a red (unless it’s a Friesland).

 

If radar ships in game, encourage team mates to target those ships first (something a bigger div mate can do),use island cover and wasd as soon as detected, bearing in mind you’ll probably have more smokes than they have radars.

 

Keep AA off until last second but tbh if the cv player is good and persistent unless you can get AA cover from a friendly Its game over.

 

If there is a cv or 2 in game avoid  the caps (cvs head for these first), but still spot/skirt around the caps.

 

Do look at the mini map in particular if it’s a base capping game, keep an eye on both caps.

 

if you get close to a red cv undetected DO NOT fire guns unless to finish off (ideally after torping him).

 

The same goes for Bismarck, Tirp, Fdg, furst, Alsace and Massa all have excellent secondaries as soon as you fire within 11.5 km they’ll automatically open up (unless they have manuals), Gneisenau and Shiny open up at 8km, so stick to torps only.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Yedwy said:

they are farther away from the front then that they have no say in anything you do as the usless borderlicking BB snipers are usually those that have enough time on their hands to write "clever" stuff in chat...

Don't forget those random sets where cruisers are further back that the bb also.

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26 minutes ago, Inked9 said:

Don't forget those random sets where cruisers are further back that the bb also.

Some crusers are supposed to stay way back or they wont live long

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6 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

Some crusers are supposed to stay way back or they wont live long

I find cruisers the hardest class to fight, but that's something for another thread  :cap_fainting:

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5 hours ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

Everyday I come home hoping my parents bought me a Ducati, yet everyday is a disappointment. Don't put hope on your team, you are the one that has to make it happen. 
What DDs are you playing with what ship build & captain skills?

Had to buy mine myself 😉94CF5708-2D72-4C4F-A12F-30D5335B8D1C.thumb.jpeg.d10facd5bc71461d92ff4628e9ea304e.jpeg

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Zoom in, find the nearest torpedo, throw yourself onto it to save your team from said torpedo.....

 

Oh.... you meant, like something clever noone else does, that actually makes sense?

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You don't need to cap. Its enough to sink enemy ships. Forget capping if enemy has many DDs and radars and you don't know their position. You just lose HP for nothing when they spot u. 

Your accuracy in UK DD-line is around 35%. Good players have closer to 50% accuracy. If you don't get better u will lose every gun fight.

Your damage dealing capability is far lower than average. Gunboats as well as other DDs are supposed to hunt and shoot.

Never fight in front of enemy. When they have 4-5 ships in front of you its guaranteed they will shoot you. If you don't know how to dodge then its even worse.

 

Go for their flanks and shoot torps and guns when enemies aren't aiming at you. 

You can easily just flank enemy and torp their BBs that camp in the rear. It doesn't matter if their DD sits at cap and takes it. One torp salvo can be enough to eliminate potato BBs. When potato BBs see torps coming they run away and this helps your team when they don't get shot.

If you shoot them with your guns they have to either aim at you (hide now) or run away. This means they aren't shooting you team. Its very easy to make enemy ships totally confused and ineffective by harassing them. 

 

Its all about efficiency. Capping is quite ineffective. Making 3 ships run away or hunt and kill a DD has 10x more impact. 

Every time you have the opportunity to shoot quite safely your gun barrels should already be red hot. 

Get good in fighting and figure out capping later.

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17 minutes ago, Rautainen_Biisoni said:

You don't need to cap. Its enough to sink enemy ships. Forget capping if enemy has many DDs and radars and you don't know their position. You just lose HP for nothing when they spot u. 

Your accuracy in UK DD-line is around 35%. Good players have closer to 50% accuracy. If you don't get better u will lose every gun fight.

Your damage dealing capability is far lower than average. Gunboats as well as other DDs are supposed to hunt and shoot.

Never fight in front of enemy. When they have 4-5 ships in front of you its guaranteed they will shoot you. If you don't know how to dodge then its even worse.

 

Go for their flanks and shoot torps and guns when enemies aren't aiming at you. 

You can easily just flank enemy and torp their BBs that camp in the rear. It doesn't matter if their DD sits at cap and takes it. One torp salvo can be enough to eliminate potato BBs. When potato BBs see torps coming they run away and this helps your team when they don't get shot.

If you shoot them with your guns they have to either aim at you (hide now) or run away. This means they aren't shooting you team. Its very easy to make enemy ships totally confused and ineffective by harassing them. 

 

Its all about efficiency. Capping is quite ineffective. Making 3 ships run away or hunt and kill a DD has 10x more impact. 

Every time you have the opportunity to shoot quite safely your gun barrels should already be red hot. 

Get good in fighting and figure out capping later.

332906435_hesright.gif.0082deffca747db67bfbe9fb430caba0.gif

 

But if you DO see an opportunity for an easy or free cap. Take it. Points win games also. 

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