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Admiral_AHR_TheNightmare

why german BBs should be the worst BB line in game?

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I personally love german BBs and it was the frist line that i played in WOW. recently i reseted this line and it was crap as hell. bad gun dispersion, thick but useless armor, high citadell (a nagato can hit F.der citadel even in long range, bad concealment and...

I think they need a buff! a good one.

what do you think?!

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Ehhhh…….. because it's not?

 

They take cits at long range because their armor is built for close range brawl.

The gun dispersion is good enough for close range brawl.

They have 2ndarys that are very good at close range brawl.

Concelament doesn't matter because it should be played at close range anyway.

 

Ergo: They should be played at close range. Anything else is just a waste of time.

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12 minutes ago, Admiral_AHR_TheNightmare said:

I personally love german BBs and it was the frist line that i played in WOW. recently i reseted this line and it was crap as hell. bad gun dispersion, thick but useless armor, high citadell (a nagato can hit F.der citadel even in long range, bad concealment and...

I think they need a buff! a good one.

what do you think?!

They should not be the worst. 

They are not the worst.

 

The KM BB are third best if not the second best BB line by winrating.

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Weekend Tester, In AlfaTesters
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If you think their armor is useless that means you're just broadsiding constantly. Learn to angle.

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I think they are mostly fine (except maybe the Friedrich).

They are not long range snipers though. Don't play them as such.

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just as french DDs are CCs in disguise, so German BBs are really just over sized DDs :Smile-_tongue:

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I've made a tier by tier analysis of German BB stats here.

 

Not all of them are bad, but quite a few are. WG has announced they are working on a buff during one of the official streams.

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[SKRUB]
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Sooo....

What BB line should/deserve to be the worst ? :cap_yes:

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28 minutes ago, ShinGetsu said:

If you think their armor is useless that means you're just broadsiding constantly. Learn to angle.

Turtle back armour is great whether angled or not. OP is probably playing at 15km+ rangers, where German BB’s can be citadel’d no matter how they’re angled.

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7 minutes ago, Lebedjev said:

Sooo....

What BB line should/deserve to be the worst ? :cap_yes:

 

Clearly not the one he likes the most

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They have some good ships, but the current meta has ruined them. Still gneiss and sharn are still fine as is GK imo.

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Jep, the german BBs feels just bad, before the CVs came in WoWs the german BBs were fine brawler but now you have in a brawl turning out topedoes and bomb attacks :/

As german wich only want to play mid tier i dont want to be forced to play all mid tier german BBs as brawler, it sucks and to be honest i didnt play the german tree pretty often today, all other nations have much better gameplay concepts as we have it for our BB tech line :(

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34 minutes ago, Major1999 said:

all other nations have much better gameplay concepts as we have it for our BB tech line :(

the USN doesnt even HAVE a consistent concept for their line outside of "hey look we've got decent AA lol", the French concept is "EVERYTHING IS DIFFERENT EVERYWHERE (and also we sometimes like to go kinda fast)", the RN concept is... yeah... toasty shall we say?, the IJN concept is "we would like to be good at longer ranges but we're still BBs so that kinda stinks...". Meanwhile, granted, the RU BB's concept does appear to be "STALINIUM IS BALANS LOL", but still... when it comes to concepts, at least the Germans are consistent...

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2 hours ago, Hanse77SWE said:

Ehhhh…….. because it's not?

 

They take cits at long range because their armor is built for close range brawl.

The gun dispersion is good enought for close range brawl.

They have 2ndarys that are very good at close range brawl.

Concelament doesn't matter because it should be played at close range anyway.

 

Ergo: They should be played at close range. Anything else is just a waste of time.

The thing is by the time you get close enough to utilize those cons HE spammers have melted you down 

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I can understand a Russian based  anti German stance,  but find the German line up conflicted; the DD’s are ok, I love Yorck and Hipper, the accuracy is great and I prefer them a lot more than RN cruisers, BBs on the other hand are strange and need a buff, in Historical terms for a world war 2 based game Bismarck should be in the same tier as Yam and Iowa, instead FDG and Furst are their and anti climax spring to mind, eg look at vlad and then Kremlin, a clear step up, just like with monarch in the RN line up (it should have been vanguard), a step down from the KGV rather than a step up.

 

Accuracy; in game German bbs have horrendous dispersion despite history telling us how deadly accurate they were, given that despite getting the crap kicked out of it by the RN, Bismarck was scuttled and yet in game (where it’s often bottom tier), a single light cruiser can despatch it.

 

Buff the accuracy / dispersion for T7-10 and give FDG and furst bigger balls than Bismarck (or rename Kremlin to furst), and you’ll be there.

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1 hour ago, Atorpad said:

The thing is by the time you get close enough to utilize those cons HE spammers have melted you down 

Doesn't change anything. German BBs are still built for close range brawl and getting into close range means taking damage. No way around it.

 

To get the most out of a german BB the whole team have to play aggressive. If they don't then that is a "player-problem", not a "ship-problem". 

 

Every time you choose to play a german BB you choose to go all-in. If you don't like to play like that way or you don't think it will work then you shouldn't play a german BB. Choose the tools that are best suited for the work at hand.

 

Also: It's not about if you survive, it's what you do before you die that matters. If your push killed you but paved the way for your team to win then the push was the right thing to do. If you get focused down and die alone, then it wasn't.

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3 hours ago, Lebedjev said:

Sooo....

What BB line should/deserve to be the worst ? :cap_yes:

 

The Russian line :cap_fainting:

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4 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

...

The KM BB are third best if not the second best BB line by winrating.

When you sort BB stats of the last two months by WR and give each ship for each rank a point (rank 1 gives 1 point, rank 6 gives 6 points), then the strongest line can get 1x8 (8) points and the worst line could get 6x8 (48) points.

And an average line should have 3.5x8 (28) points.

 

Done for all six silver tech trees and all eight Tiers, you get these results:

image.png.43dab81acd55e377eb23ba168d3428c9.png

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20191026/eu_week/average_ship.html

 

I do not think improving the KM line significantly is a good idea. Other lines need more help.

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6 hours ago, Egoleter said:

I think they are mostly fine (except maybe the Friedrich).

They are not long range snipers though. Don't play them as such.

Whats wrong with the PEF, if thats the one you mean?I was looking at a tier 6 BB for my alt and could not make my mind up between the Dunkurque  and the PEF?

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2 hours ago, Hanse77SWE said:

 

Every time you choose to play a german BB you choose to go all-in. If you don't like to play like that way or you don't think it will work then you shouldn't play a german BB. Choose the tools that are best suited for the work at hand.

 

exactly, unlike COD etc, this isn't a game where you are limited to the weapons / equipment that your team's nationality has, you can literally can choose ships from all over the world, if you can't make a particular tech tree line work for you, switch to one that does, if you want to stick with one particular line for personal reasons, just accept those ships for what they are, you're the one choosing to go with them, no one is forcing you to.

 

the fact that different nations' tech lines have different characteristics is what allows war gaming to build in so much variety rather than with some games / sims where every bit of equipment has the same performance as any other bit at their level and the only differences are cosmetic

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I'm honestly not sure where this ludicrous myth comes from that KM BBs are vulnerable to citadels at long ranges?

Do yourself a favor, go to the training room and shoot at KM BBs at long range. I guarantee you won't get any.

 

There are ways to citadel KM BBs, but they either require some hefty RNG, said KM BB to :etc_swear: up or being able to fly and armed with balans bombs.

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3 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

I'm honestly not sure where this ludicrous myth comes from that KM BBs are vulnerable to citadels at long ranges?

Do yourself a favor, go to the training room and shoot at KM BBs at long range. I guarantee even at long ranges you won't get any.

 

There are ways to citadel KM BBs, but they either require some hefty RNG, said KM BB to :etc_swear: up or being able to fly and armed with balans bombs.

 

Guess slava needs buff no?

 

Thank you camrade! da!

 

*hic*

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9 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

I'm honestly not sure where this ludicrous myth comes from that KM BBs are vulnerable to citadels at long ranges?

Do yourself a favor, go to the training room and shoot at KM BBs at long range. I guarantee you won't get any.

 

There are ways to citadel KM BBs, but they either require some hefty RNG, said KM BB to :etc_swear: up or being able to fly and armed with balans bombs.

They can be citadelled at close range while angled. Kurfurst seems to take citadels from long range when broadside under the A turret. I got a Tirpitz in the same place with the Kronstadt at 18km.

 

It’s not like the Americans with guaranteed citadels in certain places.

 With the Germans you don’t aim for it as it’s inconsistent. 

 

I still struggle to citadel french battleships as a battleship. I think the only time I citadelled one was with a Roon at 16km.

 

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3 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

They can be citadelled at close range while angled.

 

While technically true, the following must apply:

- shooting through the bow into the small gap between the turtleback and citadel armor, requires some hefty RNG

- shooting at the waterline while the KM BB is broadside and turning towards you which allows you to bypass the turtleback and hit the citadel directly

 

Otherwise KM BBs are impervious to citadel hits at all ranges.

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