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Nufessa

All problems of (mid tier) Italian Cruisers

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[NEM]
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So i got the Montecuccoli in a container and give it a try. Let's start from positive things i found on the ship (i played at least 20 battles in it):

- Handling: The ship maneuvers very good and it's fast, i don't need to change speed and evade shots, just press A or D and it works like a dd.

- Good Looking: i mean i love Italian ships and their design.

- Concealment: Decent concealment, nothing incredible but good.

I think i can stop here.

Negative things:

- 14.3 seconds reload: Enormous reload for a ship with 152mm guns only because of this ammunition that's very very inconsistent. I can get 5k salvos and 800 salvos depending on which part of the enemy ship i'm hitting. Sometimes Rng trolls a lot and makes ships pass in between my shells without hitting anything. Furthermore i found some situations against point blank dds where i shot all shells, got 4 penetrating ribbons and 1271 dmg or, in general, very poor damage numbers; i got also situations where i oneshotted full hp dds but, again, it's a bit strange behavior. So let's take a ship like Konigsberg: i have 1700 HE max damage so 1700x0,33 = 561 and i shoot every 7.5 seconds. In 15 seconds i can get (assuming 50% of shells hit and pen) = 5049 damage + Chance of fire. Why this gigantic reload time then? With SAP i can get (assuming 50% hits and pens) : 3850x0,33=1270 so 1270x4=5089 and no fires. 

- Air drag: Over 13-14 km shells just float like UFOs. They take eones to reach the target and moreover they make aiming with the spotter plane a lottery. Reduce this d*mn airdrag pls because balistics are pure TRASH.

-Exaust smoke: Only 2 charges with premium and 3 with superintendent. Seriously? It works for 25 seconds and then you have to wait A LOT for reloading the consumable. This is useful but not that much. It saves your a** sometimes and i used it to attack and flank but nothing more that some situations. 

 

In conclusion ship is fun to play (only because i'm italian i think) but her damage output is minimal. Guns don't work and don't prize good aiming and positioning, they are just situational. It's easy to get great damage numbers with all t5 cruisers (Kirov, Konigsb, Furutaka, Emile Bertin) but with this damage lacks. And it lacks a lot.

 

Naturally this is my opinion on the ship, not the entire line. But with this assumptions,  if also other ships are gonna behave this way i think this is going to be the worst line ever released on this game. So pls WG, fix this mess.

 

I'm ready to know your thoughts on this :Smile_smile:

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If you compare it to the Duca D'Aosta your list of positives would get much shorter and your negatives much longer, the Gimmicks on the line do more harm than good which is a shame as I was really looking forward to the line cause of the Duca game-play, but these are the complete opposite in game-play. They need to be taken away and done again from scratch...

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I was thinking of getting the Tier 7 Zara, is it bad as well or is this just an issue with the tier V / VI?

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[LAFIE]
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1 hour ago, LordTareq said:

I was thinking of getting the Tier 7 Zara, is it bad as well or is this just an issue with the tier V / VI?

The extra "heft" of the 203mm guns on the Trento on up should at least partially make up for the slow reload, they certainly feel like they do, at least partially, on the Genoa if you ask me (only one of the four I've played so far)

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they're all really bad and can't make a game changing difference on their own.  the implementation feels lazy, especially the Zara, supposedly the most armored cruiser of her time (LOL says WG).  I hate all of them. 

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[TSSSC]
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So far I've only got the T5 Genova and Montecuccoli. Now I'm not a skilled player at all, but I do feel these ships are performing less than other T5 cruisers I've played. Shells seem to do lower damage than the usual HE shells, and I haven't been able to find a logic when it makes a decent hit and damage, and when it just bounces. At least the Montecuccoli has a better reload rate than the Genova. Genova especially feels rather squishy, more so than average cruisers. I'm trying to stay at a safe distance, but that doesn't help with doing some SAP shell damage. Genova's torps don't seem to do much damage either, as well as her secondary guns. 

 

But hey, I may totally be playing these ships wrong. I'm not skilled and don't have a competetive mindset. :P

 

I do love the looks of the ships though, and the SAP shells look like pretty red fireworks when flying through the air. But that might be pretty much the main reason I'm playing this ships (and the Directives that can only be completed on the Genova or Italian cruisers). 

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Comparing premiums with premium Genova feels like a nerfed Exeter -same 203, trading and additional turret with +5 sec of reload, but with no gimmicks this time and really unreliable artillery - I concur that it feels very strange, you go from full SAP salvos with feck all damage to shotgun style one salvo one kill thanks to the higher caliber. The advantage Exeter has it in the heal and the sonar - I kinda forgot how much quicker is torp reload at lower tier compared to TX. 

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My only problem with the Italian cruisers is the to long reload; the rest, you can work with it, but the reload is too long and doesn't make up for your lack of setting fires.

 

P.S. I'd also like to have hydro at least

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7 hours ago, LordTareq said:

I was thinking of getting the Tier 7 Zara, is it bad as well or is this just an issue with the tier V / VI?

Dont have Zara, but got Montecuccoli and Trento out of a container. Statswise there seems to be not really much difference between Trento and Zara.

 

Trento/Zara - the historical heavy cruisers - differ a lot from Montecuccoli. The camo gets worse a lot from 10,x to 12,7 km, but the range does not go up accordingly.

You get 16,1 km range for the 20,3 cm guns, which is just appropriate at T6, but not enough at T7.

The big troublemaker is the SAP. I kind of like the 20 cm SAP with Genova at T5, its not bad. But Trentos SAP vs T8 BB is hard work for poor results and I dont want to think of Zara vs Izumo/Friedrich/Musashi.

Trentos armour is ... bad. Yes I name it that way. I got zitadelled from BB from 14-15 km kiting away properly angled. Dont get hit ... its as easy as that.

 

Lots of disencouraging stuff, isn`t it ?

 

The interesting truth is: you can make it work, nevertheless, but it is a lot of work to do.

Here my results from the first 5 battles in Trento :

Trento 6 Italien 5 60% 1 740 47 845 0.8 4

You need to know about positioning, about patience, you need RNG-Jesus a lot and you need a team. No functioning team >> no carry with the midtier italians.

The most important point is: you cannot slug it out, with nobody (except DD maybe) !

The italian style seems to be hit-and-run 

Be patient, dont be front (neverever !!!), watch out for enemies that are focused on other ships. Stay longrange, aim carefully and smack them a salvo or two. Then disengage !! asap ! Go dark. Then rinse and repeat.

Oh, and disperse your fish as soon as they have reloaded. They are too slow to aim properly, but they are perfect for area denial. Like watermines. Spam every corner of islands, even if you cant spot someone exactly. Its watermines, spam 20 of them during the battle and I gurantee you a hit or two. Just for the sake of it.

 

Well ... wall of text ... sorry bout that, but that is the way it seems to work for me.

 

:Smile_honoring:

 

 

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[-TPF-]
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1 hour ago, Castor_Tyndarides said:

I kinda forgot how much quicker is torp reload at lower tier compared to TX. 

Genova has Tier III torp reload times. If you can get closer than 10k to a red ship - not always easy - then you can easily get 10 or 12 torpedoes away. 

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[OCTO]
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9 hours ago, Nufessa said:

14.3 seconds reload: Enormous reload for a ship with 152mm guns only because of this ammunition that's very very inconsistent.

The long reload is the problem with the french cruisers too on mid tiers, and those too suffer from drag at long ranges.

I did not tried SAP but it seems good against low armored targets that you get at low tiers.

But with italians at least you have better torps( 10km vs 6km at tier 5) and that smoke where you can ditch out.

And when you look at the torp reload there is no competition: italian ships are the best in class.

The rest of the parameters seems on par with Emile Bertine.

I don't think the italian ships needs a buff, they have some other things that you can rely on them.

But we have to wait and see how they perform at least 2-3 patches until people get used to their playstyle.

 

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