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Sir_Sinksalot

What's more important, Acceleration+Braking or Turning?

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Hi guys,

 

Sorry for the barrage of threads today I had the day off and had time for this game. I have been building up a nice collection of T6 destroyers and cruisers and I am really struggling with deciding what the best approach for the 4th slot is, especially since it's going to cost me 500k credits for each ship.

 

Sometimes I am convinced that it would be more beneficial to improve the rudder speed so I can turn my ship faster which is an obvious gain for many reasons such as avoiding incoming torps, incoming shells at range, avoiding crashing into something or someone, making a turn instead of having to reverse, getting your ship quickly broadside to fire torps and guns faster, getting your ship out of a broadside quickly so it's not as vulnerable and exposed for as long as it would normally be which means taking a less shots and less damage or citadel hits etc

 

But then I think, if I get to full power 50% quicker that will mean I can hit my top speed faster and equally stop the ship a lot faster, reverse, peak, shoot, go forwards back behind cover faster... accelerate hard from incoming torpedoes, brake hard from incoming torpedoes. 

 

So, I really REALLY can't decide where to go on this one it's rather expensive if I get it wrong.... help please!!! 

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Engines get to full power 50% faster but don’t get to full speed 50% faster.

 

If  on a ship where you will use smoke a lot or camp around islands I would choose accerleration. For any other cruiser or destroyer I would take rudder shift.

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If you like playing destroyers then Propulsion Mod 2 is generally a good choice for the 4th Mod slot. The ability to gain speed quickly is probably more important than rudder shift... it lets you keep moving in smoke and allows you to react to torpedoes and threats as they come in, changing speed is also remarkably effective as a dodging tactic. Rudder shift is useful but you only really need it above Tier VIII or on bigger DDs.

 

Some ships - British cruisers and DDs, mostly -  have it built in (it's not shown as an option in the 4th Mod Slot). Play a Brit DD which doesn't have it (Gallant) or an RN style ship which doesn't (Huang He) and you'll really notice the benefits it brings.

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For DDs I typically default to the Propulsion Mod. For cruisers it depends on their playstyle. As @invicta2012 alraedy mentioned, if it is a CC that likes to camp behind islands, take Propulsion Mod. If it's an open water He slinger like the French, you'll probably want Rudder Shift.

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It depends on the ship...

 

In general I like a DD to have rudder shift below 4s a CL or a kite CA below 9s and CC or a BB below 15s if possible as it makes life easyer BUT its not imperative if i deem a ship will profit more from fire reduction or better acceleration i will take those... When deciding if i need to mac rudder or not turret turning speed and gun reload as well as usefoulness of angling between shots has the deciding role

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2 hours ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

help please!!!

First place I would start reading is the wiki: https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/World_of_Warships

 

Most ships have a suggested build in there, although there will sometimes not be consensus as to whether the wiki is right - it's a good place to start though.

 

If you're talking about premiums, you can usually find reviews that include a suggested build (LWM for example).

 

There will also be some variation, based on personal play style e.g. I don't smoke camp/island hump much, so if a ship is borderline between the two, I'll usually go with rudder as that will get used more often, with the way I usually play.

 

I wouldn't necessarily get too hung up on this though; both mods will be useful on something eventually - if you mess up, it probably won't be completely disastrous, and you can put the thing on something else the next time there's a free equipment dismount (assuming you don't want to waste doubloons).

 

As an aside: keep an eye out for the periodic cheapnesses (some people will leave a ship in mothballs, or play it unequipped, until the next one comes around) - that'll save you a lot of silver, especially when you start getting into higher tiers (the final slot for a T10 costs 3,000,000 silver, for example).

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2 hours ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

Hi guys,

 

Sorry for the barrage of threads today I had the day off and had time for this game. I have been building up a nice collection of T6 destroyers and cruisers and I am really struggling with deciding what the best approach for the 4th slot is, especially since it's going to cost me 500k credits for each ship.

 

Sometimes I am convinced that it would be more beneficial to improve the rudder speed so I can turn my ship faster which is an obvious gain for many reasons such as avoiding incoming torps, incoming shells at range, avoiding crashing into something or someone, making a turn instead of having to reverse, getting your ship quickly broadside to fire torps and guns faster, getting your ship out of a broadside quickly so it's not as vulnerable and exposed for as long as it would normally be which means taking a less shots and less damage or citadel hits etc

 

But then I think, if I get to full power 50% quicker that will mean I can hit my top speed faster and equally stop the ship a lot faster, reverse, peak, shoot, go forwards back behind cover faster... accelerate hard from incoming torpedoes, brake hard from incoming torpedoes. 

 

So, I really REALLY can't decide where to go on this one it's rather expensive if I get it wrong.... help please!!! 

Rudder shift modules speed up, well, how quick rudder reacts. Thing is:

-stated value in port is time needed from maximum to maximum position, so actual gain is half when you use rudder from neutral to max

-upgrade doesn't help with tightening rudder turn radius, so clumsy ship will still turn like a barge

 

Personally I stick propulsion upgrade on anything that isn't BB, as those get Damage Control upgrade to cut down DoT duration. Propulsion mod is extra handy when you get sudden torpedo spread incoming, as it gives massive engine output spike to get from standstill to 5-6kts in no time, which at times can be enough to make difference between "muh stern" and "that was close". Also improves speed recovery whenever you do hard turn, especially with cutting speed down to tighten radius

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This issue was discussed July last and I did some research.

it it a good read. It is not about DDs or Cruisers per se but it haves a rather good analysis.

 

 

W

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What I would like to know is how engine boost effects initial engine acceleration.

 

With my Jean Bart and Georgia it has a massive effect. I’d like to know what stat is altered to cause this as it is not mentioned in the engine boost tooltip.

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27 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

What I would like to know is how engine boost effects initial engine acceleration.

 

With my Jean Bart and Georgia it has a massive effect. I’d like to know what stat is altered to cause this as it is not mentioned in the engine boost tooltip.

 

Does this game have soft stats like drag resistance and p/w ratios? WoT has and the result is you can have two vehicles with identical p/w ratio regardless of their size and engine power differences but one will have much greater ground resistances which dramatically effects acceleration, responsiveness and turning. 

 

In other wards, you could have two ships with the same p/w ration but one ship is very small and light with a weak engine while the other ship is a great big lump with a powerful engine but while both, for talk sake, translate into having equal power to weight ratio's, the small little ship is a lot more responsive, nimble and agile because the small little ship has only small drag in the water, the great big lump just happens to have terrible drag resistances so the while both have the same p/w on paper, the little ship can hit a greater top speed, accelerate to that superior top speed much faster while also turn much more responsively(lets not talk about rudder speed in regards this example lol) because it has less drag encumbering it by comparison to the large ship in this example.  

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The characteristics of the ship and its playstyle dictate whether PM2 or SGM2 is necessary. In something like Henri, for example, I have SGM2 because most of the time I'll be at long range and want to be able to juke and turn away from shots as efficiently as possible. For IJN cruisers I also mount SGM2 because, again, I'll mostly be in open water using my high alpha guns against ships that try to push into an area and I have to dodge a lot of incoming fire. Meanwhile, in the Des Moines, I opt to stay behind cover most of the time and move my ship to reposition and hop between islands. The faster I can do that, the better. So I get PM2.

 

As far as destroyers are concerned, I mount PM2 for almost all of them. The only exception for me is Khabarovsk, which suffers from battleship-level rudder shift. That is probably the only destroyer I ever mounted SGM2 and SGM3 in. I'd rather have 9.7 km concealment and be spotted from the moon than deal with rudder shift that goes beyond 7 seconds. In addition to this, the playstyle for the ship is loud and obnoxious, so you're going to be spotted 99% of the time anyway. It's what you want.

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Ok, so it's a mixture of playstyle preference and the ships stronger combat style. Well, as mentioned, I'm just looking to consolidate a nice fleet of tier6 which I can do most missions with and from most classes actually but they're mostly destroyers.

 

Perhaps if I was a bit more specific you could apply a more ship specific answer. I get the point that I probably can't really go wrong either way and for sure, there will always be situations manifest during battles where we can all say "damn, if only I went with the better acceleration I wouldn't have died just there" and "damn, if only I went with the better turning I wouldn't have died just there" lol ok. Also, I will take a look at that link suggestion for layouts too so thanks for that.

 

DD.

 

Edit- never mind. Most all my T6 DD's have decent rudder speed as default so I switched all but one of those for the engine mod. The only DD I kept with the rudder mod is my German Ernst since it has a pretty poor rudder speed bad enough to probably justify it over the engine mod gains.

 

Cruisers. Definitely struggling with this decision.

 

1. Aoba

2. Budyonny

3. Dallas

 

Fatties. Definitely struggling with this decision too and perhaps even the repairs mod might be more befitting. 

 

1. Warspite

2. Dunkerque 

3. Fuso

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Rudder for Aoba and Buddy and Engine mod for Dallas, all BBs DOT reduction

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1 hour ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

Fatties.

Whilst I suck at BBs, I generally take the DOT reduction mod - whatever that's called. BBs tend to get zapped with HE and torps pretty much regardless, so mitigating that is usually optimal.

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21 hours ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

Sorry for the barrage of threads today I had the day off and had time for this game. I have been building up a nice collection of T6 destroyers and cruisers and I am really struggling with deciding what the best approach for the 4th slot is, especially since it's going to cost me 500k credits for each ship.

Destroyers (except Khabarovsk): Always go Propulsion mod 2 for disengage (instant full reverse + smoke will make every player except unicorns miss their first shot - as soon as you are smoked, move to disengage before radar/hydro/torps). Khaba is njormally played as a light cruiser with rudder shift mod 1+2.

 

Cruisers: Depends on their role and rudder shift time. Usually go rudder shift except for island huggers that benefit a lot from propulsion mod.


BBs: Usually Damage control module is better (standard for tank build with damage control & fire prevention on the captain)

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