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HentaiSquirrel

Way too long post on the "potato flood phenomenon".

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You had been warned... changed the thread's title to avoid clickbaiting someone. XD

 

 

There are a number of comments in the forum and a lot more in chat about an increase in the number of unskilled players. Some are just frustrated, some are angry and occasionally there's genuine malice.

And i would be lying if i claimed to never potato myself to an early wet grave, sometimes clearly contributing to a defeat for my team. [Always seeking to not repeat mistakes, though].

 

Having celebrated my personal first WoWs-birthday last week  (-: yay :-)  I too seem to notice more unskilled players than I used to a while ago, myself.

 

While I haven't mined long term data from stats websites allowing a reliable conclusion I do look at profiles of both players notably potatoing and loudly complaining.

It seems to me that the most notable (loud, frequent or even rude) complains come from more advanced and veteran players.

[ And, of course, the occasional newt ridiculing others as n00b, oblivious to their 72 randoms service record two clicks away for all to see ;D ]

 

The reason why I hardly ever get angry at this (still sometimes baffled by ignorance a/or malice) is that I am very familiar /w this phenomenon.

Very remarkably so from my professional, but also from my 'personal' life. For explanation sake I'll call it  "proficiency bias".

[Not claiming to have discovered this! This pattern has been observed and researched for a while].

 

The reason for this post is that simply being aware, or even just occasionally reminding oneself of this "proficiency bias" 

helps to massively reduces the amount of frustration experienced when interacting /w others who are less proficient / skilled.

 

When one gradually improves their skills -in whatever area- over time, even more so if a lot of life time and the proverbial blood, sweat and tears are invested,

one tends to miss the actual degree of skill they reached in comparison to where they started from. This phenomenon is even more amplified in competitive environments,

where there is always someone better, shifting the bias to underestimate ones own skills even more towards seeing the mistakes the (yet) less skilled make.

 

This, by the way, is the bright flip side of the infamous 'Dunning-Kruger Effect' that is regularly overlooked by those less skilled than e.g.

David and Justin (who coined the name) in interpretation of cognitive science data.

 

TL;DR (simplified!):  practically everyone regards themselves as performing slightly above average.

- For roughly 2/3 of all humans this results in thinking themselves better than they actually are in whatever particular skill they look at.

- On the other hand, those who actually are performing above average underestimate their skills.

- The better they actually are in comparison to the average skill level the more they underestimate their actual performance.

 

- Result: (simplified) those who regard themselves as "slightly above average" will, as soon as they actually perform more than just above average (roughly 1/3 of all players, overall, corrected for time spend playing)

  and continue to improve even further they start to note more and more players who seemingly perform sub-par. Eventually reaching the impression that "nowadays 2/3 of all players are potatoes."

- Stats don't really help here, due to game performance stats not even closely resembling stats on human traits and general behavior - because the game results are balanced , as we all know.

  (the latter being absolutely fine, imo, for various reasons, please just note that that's one of the factor making any game actually playable for more than just a few and therefor absolutely justified, in this regard)

 

Solution, ok.. a solution, possibly

Next time you have the impression, in WoWs, or in real life, that everyone around you is performing sub-par, or behaving outright stupid...

... just remember there are three reasons that cover almost all cases, each with a more/less easy option to better enjoy what you are doing. 

 

a) You actually are that good. This kinda is the tough one, sorry. I'd suggest you remember that in this game you have become what you are over time by investing a lot of time and be proud of what you have achieved. Maybe watch a video of a world class professional athlete having a ball, enjoying themselves, sparring with amateurs or kids. You can try to find and challenge the few from whom even you can still learn. And you might consider sharing your experience and coach someone (this might even turn out to be a thoroughly gratifying experience). Wishing you to enjoy the view from the top down upon us plebs... ...asking for mercy would be too much, i know  ; ) 

 

b) You are actually an about average performer. This might feel a tad uncomfortable at first glance but is actually good news. You're average (atm). Most people are. That's great news because you will always find someone to beat and you will always find someone you can learn from. These are ideal gaming conditions. Or, bluntly said: have fun, while there will always be potatoes you'll always be sinking someone  - or you could check your filters, accept that you could perform better and get started (again). Maybe find one of those who frowned reading a. and left the thread, doubting they'll ever find someone willing to learn. ;-)

 

c) You actually perform below average (in this game, saying nothing at all about you as a person!) and blame everyone else for it. If you've read this far and this actually matches your actual description you will now probably blame this post or me for wasting your time - or simply shrug it of deeming me an idiot who writes way too long posts that make no sense and go on to enjoy yourself. As some of the latter definitely is true, i wish you all the best and may you enjoy the game and life and everything ; )

 

P.S. Almost missed one: on some occasions it's a s simple as it seems... sometimes the crapteam lottery just hands out the main prizes. (Just not as often as it sometimes seems :-> )

(If you're still reading, having comprehended content, and creation of this post, as well as their interrelation, not necessarily agreeing /w everything... and would like to coach a player open to learn, pm f. a chat, might be mutually entertaining  ;-> ) 

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Some potatoes are in fact "2 battles per 3 months" players. They are also bad cause they don't know the changes / the new ships. Pushing a Colbert on a Hipper and get rekt, blame everything but not himself. 

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The player's reasoning doesn't interest me, results do.
I don't care who the player blames, but if he decides to basically throw the match by doing something an unskilled new players took 3 matches to understand was a terrible idea, I know who I'm blaming.

 

I may not be unbiased, but I sure as hell know that I didn't spend my first 5000 battles playing with 0 intention to angle, cap, or tank for the team. 

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5 kills in the DD dragging muppets to victory and all our BB had to do was shoot the cruiser with 1000 hp left. That is it.  Me in the DD spotting the cruiser at all times.

 

..................The BB player went AFK in the last 1 min!!!!

 

He got burned down by the cruiser within 6km and i couldn't do anything to stop it (413 HP left), lost on points!

 

I got back to the port and the same guy was playing another bloody match. So this clown left the game at the end and started another one.

 

I mean why the hell are players doing this??

 

I give up trying to understand these people.

 

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2 hours ago, Exocet6951 said:


I don't care who the player blames, but if he decides to basically throw the match by doing something an unskilled new players took 3 matches to understand was a terrible idea, I know who I'm blaming.

This can also describe genuine mistakes that players make in much the same way that it's possible for Lewis Hamilton to crash his car from time to time. Of course the alternative is that some people just don't make mistakes because they aren't trying hard enough. Which would you give the contract to?

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1 hour ago, 250swb said:

This can also describe genuine mistakes that players make in much the same way that it's possible for Lewis Hamilton to crash his car from time to time. Of course the alternative is that some people just don't make mistakes because they aren't trying hard enough. Which would you give the contract to?

 

A less extreme example would be to take regular people driving cars. 

 

Why should people who routinely ram into traffic because they commit the same mistakes over and over again be tolerated? 

 

I'm completely tolerant of mistakes. 

I can potato as well. 

 

But a mistake is characterized by being a punctual event, not the norm. 

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2 hours ago, Redcap375 said:

5 kills in the DD dragging muppets to victory and all our BB had to do was shoot the cruiser with 1000 hp left. That is it.  Me in the DD spotting the cruiser at all times.

 

..................The BB player went AFK in the last 1 min!!!!

 

He got burned down by the cruiser within 6km and i couldn't do anything to stop it (413 HP left), lost on points!

 

I got back to the port and the same guy was playing another bloody match. So this clown left the game at the end and started another one.

 

I mean why the hell are players doing this??

 

I give up trying to understand these people.

 

 

Wonder if thats something you could report this guy for? Alltho, proving that might be hard, unless they have the logs to show that he left the game and entered a new one :cap_hmm:

Those people need to get banned :Smile-angry:

 

6 hours ago, HentaiSquirrel said:

Having celebrated my personal first WoWs-birthday last week  (-: yay :-)  I too seem to notice more unskilled players than I used to a while ago, myself.

 

I agree. If i watchn replays from ~2 years ago which i recorded, i dont see that derp crap we see now. Yes, there were like 1-2 players not playing the game, but now you have half the team or more like that. Which is definetely way worse than only having a couple of those.

So it not only seems worse, i can pretty much say: it definetely is worse than before.

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6 minutes ago, Exocet6951 said:

 

But a mistake is characterized by being a punctual event, not the norm. 

For many players they read that bow tanking is the way to sail a BB, so they sail straight forward imaging that is all they need to do. Many players read that DD's are meant to cap so they go and cap no matter what. In their minds they are doing nothing wrong, they've heard it somewhere. You see 'how to play well' is not confined within the actual battle, but it's an idea moulded by chatter on forums such as this, or that come up in Google searches, or WG tutorials, or on YouTube, or even through the bad habits of the person who encouraged them to start playing (Recruiting Station I'm looking at you), etc. But too much credit is given to out and out trolls, the type that generate complaints along the lines of  'something once happened in a battle and I never got over it', those trolls don't turn up everyday and shouldn't be the reason to berate the rest of the player base. 

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18 minutes ago, 250swb said:

For many players they read that bow tanking is the way to sail a BB, so they sail straight forward imaging that is all they need to do. Many players read that DD's are meant to cap so they go and cap no matter what. In their minds they are doing nothing wrong, they've heard it somewhere.

 

You write like those people dont have any selfreflection at all (they might not, just saying^^). But id atleast expect anyone, who is doing the same move over and over inevitably getting killed, would at some point ask themselves: am I doing something wrong? If not for any other reason than to actually get to PLAY the game a bit longer, if we are looking at DDs dying within the first 3 mins of the game.

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Maybe it's now far easier to progress to higher tiers way earlier, so we're confronted with these crap plays way more often.

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15 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

You write like those people dont have any selfreflection at all (they might not, just saying^^). But id atleast expect anyone, who is doing the same move over and over inevitably getting killed, would at some point ask themselves: am I doing something wrong? If not for any other reason than to actually get to PLAY the game a bit longer, if we are looking at DDs dying within the first 3 mins of the game.

Your reason is valid based on the presumption that all players strive to better themselves. Many don't feel the need to invest time and effort and might just rage quit and uninstall the game. I think we can all agree that the game is quite complex if one tries to understand the mechanics and doesn't just treat it like a "black box". Trying to remember all the penetration and overmatch thresholds and armor values for all the ships takes an effort, especially if you don't follow CCs, read forums or just have a more experienced buddy. 

Yesterday I was in a tier 9 game during which the Soyuz on my team just kited away and shot from 16+km. He basically played like a high tier IJN cruiser, and this lead to the right flank being overran and the game lost. I can understand this at low tiers when you are not familiar with the ship capabilities and the specific playstyle, but at tier 9 this is unacceptable! 

Furthermore, he finished the game as the last ship alive and in the middle of the team list with respect to xp earned, above me (in my Monarch) and the coulpe of cruisers that were killed early by the enemy push.   

 

PS: I have to confess that I am in no way without potato moments. I have my share of 0dmg/first-to-die-yolo games and sometimes I lack situational awareness, but I am trying to better myself constantly. 

 

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All i know is this....

 

1) The average player is far below what it used to be, alot.

2) Teamwork and all forms of it in Randoms is practically dead.

3) Tier 9-10 is saturated with the same players at tier 3.  No longer "the better player" or safe from muppets zone.

 

It NEVER used to be like that. 

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4 minutes ago, Redcap375 said:

3) Tier 9-10 is saturated with the same players at tier 3.  No longer "the better player" or safe from muppets zone. 

 

TBH, midtiers feel better, because you can turn the game by yourself. And even there it feels, people atleast try to play the game. While on hightiers you either have yolo suiciders dieing before the 5 minute mark (which sometimes even can end the game right there if you have too many of those on one side) or you get the other type of camping in spawn/behind islands, never doing anything even if they would lose.

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I gave up complaining about mm and teams etc... during the summer, when I was plagued by a 46 day losing streak. I still lose so this is not the reason I stopped complaining. I still rage in chat, still use all my reports early in the day etc...

18 minutes ago, Redcap375 said:

1) The average player is far below what it used to be, alot.

2) Teamwork and all forms of it in Randoms is practically dead.

3) Tier 9-10 is saturated with the same players at tier 3.  No longer "the better player" or safe from muppets zone.

  

It NEVER used to be like that. 

I agree wit all points almost completely.

 

I can offer my 2cents as for the why. In losses (or in very easy wins) I always check at the team composition. In 9 out of 10 times the team that gets steamrolled is very new. As in it has players wit very few games played. I had teams with 10 players with less than 50 games played and a couple of 200-300 ones. I played against them and I had them in my team. When I did or some other poor, unlucky (?)  older timer did then the game was torture. No matter how well you played, no matter how hard you tried, when 80-90% of yr team is 2-3 DAYS fresh players it is difficult to win. Can it be done? Sure. bUT if it catches you unwares then game is over faster than it is humanly possible.

 

Why is this happening?

MM was patched recently and I think one of the 'tricks' to (FIX IT) put in was this. More steamrolls, more roofstomping, for reasons obvious to everyone with a (1 -one)  brain cell. 

This coupled with the recruiting center that has me inviting waifu, my little brother, his friend, waifu's long-time bestie etc to play the game when, they didn't want to or liked or even more so understood/found it interesting enough to try it out themselves. Dis is the kind of crowd it will attract. Good people, fine guys and girls but totally oblivious wit wows and the kind of game it is. Why? Because they were brought in wit no regard for that skill or interest. They were  brought in after urging for the same reason I didn't mention right above :)  

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It's the same in WoT. Tbh, probably little has changed in regards the average players ability from one year to the next and it's more a case of those who once were average or noob have improved with time so to them their perception is players are getting worse but the reality is they have just got better themselves. 

 

Thing is though, it's kind of funny to read players ranting can complaining about average Bobs displaying the same ability and game knowledge they themselves use to be no different too.

 

Of course, sometimes there's always "that player" on your team or even a bunch of em that just display baffling levels of illogical actions and cowardice that can not in any way be attributed to noob or limited skill. Sometimes these can be explained as ppl with bad connections, someones it's a little kid playing Dads pew pew game while Dad knocks boots with Mom upstairs and sometimes it might be someone with a physical or mental impairment... or even someone totally off their face on drink or alternatives. Of course, there are some that just don't give a fork and drift from game to youtube or something, back to the game, back to something else mid battle... this sort of thing.

 

 You need to understand this is a possibility, it's not a solo game it's a team based game and it's one of the frustrating parts about a team based game but it ain't gonna go away because you cry about it. 

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42 minutes ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

but it ain't gonna go away because you cry about it. 

 

I totally agree with the rest...Apart from this bit ^^.  We should always voice what we/you are not happy with. 

 

Things CAN be done. Not all of course (like some of the reasons above), but WG CAN do a few things to ease all of this.  

 

They just choose not too. :cap_tea:

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1 hour ago, DFens_666 said:

 

TBH, midtiers feel better, because you can turn the game by yourself. And even there it feels, people atleast try to play the game. While on hightiers you either have yolo suiciders dieing before the 5 minute mark (which sometimes even can end the game right there if you have too many of those on one side) or you get the other type of camping in spawn/behind islands, never doing anything even if they would lose.

This^^

 

I must be one of those below average performers tho. Seeing that i lost 10 out of 11 games today.  :Smile_teethhappy: I must clearly be doing something wrong. I mean, ignore the fact that i outscored every player on my team (and most of the enemy players) by atleast 400-600xp. And most of them don't even get 400-600xp in total. And the fact that most kills was from me. Also ignore the fact that usually over half my team died before 5 minutes had passed. 

 

I get the point tho WG. You want me to take a break again. Funny how these breaks gets longer and longer. 

 

Oh crap. As i write this i just realized i haven't played Smolensk today......Hmmm. :cap_hmm:

Spoiler

Waiting patiently for another forum ban or warning. Right @mtm78:Smile_veryhappy:

 

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19 hours ago, Redcap375 said:

 

I totally agree with the rest...Apart from this bit ^^.  We should always voice what we/you are not happy with. 

 

Things CAN be done. Not all of course (like some of the reasons above), but WG CAN do a few things to ease all of this.  

 

They just choose not too. :cap_tea:

 

Ya there's always ways of improving things. I'll give credit where credit is due though in regards WoWs, it's a lot more "noob friendly" than WoT by way of the fact WG offer PvE options in WoWs via Co-op and Scenario battles so if noobs are feeling it getting a bit too hot in the PvP kitchen, the outlets are there for them to get away from that mode and into a battle environment in which they can learn or just goof around it that's all they're interested in doing. Unlike WoT, bad players, inexperienced players and "special" players really don't have many excuses to be made for some level of feeling "forced" to play PvP mode and struggling with that game mode. In WoWs, they really don't have to play it very often.

 

I'd be a bit critical of WG during this Halloween event by way of the fact that we can no longer play the scenario battles like normal and combined with the Italian event this may have the knock on of some struggling players spilling over into random battles to try and faster complete some of those xp or whatever the mission requirement is that can be done much quicker than co-op whereas those same players might well have completed those in scenarios instead if the mode was available in it's normal "just click battle" offering. 

 

The thing to remember also is that if all the "bad" players were not participating in randoms then it stands to reason that all that would be left would be decent players fighting decent players and suddenly this perception of superiority and skill would go out the window and the weaker of the good players would be the new bad players instead of the good players they were while they once were when both teams were typically stocked with a portion of weaker and inexperienced players. We all love mashing noobs, big damage battles with lots of kills but you just wouldn't have that against if teams were both comprised of only good players. It would be a lock out where nobody presses forwards and nobody is willing to risk or try and make something happen because they know they will get focused being the first target spotted and get punished and killed off no matter how good they are so you need noobs to sadly, press forwards or go too conservative which creates opening that better players can exploit either by way of the fact the noobs are too redline and leaving flanks open, by way of them pressing forwards and getting killed creating a numbers deficit or by way of them just playing with blinkers on and being easier to take out than an experienced player ever would be.

 

You think it would be better with no noobs but I believe it would actually be detrimental for the game and battles would be horrible drawn out cancellations of zero risk, heavily punished stand offs where everyone is experienced, risks nothing, covers all the approaches and just becomes a lock out where there's no openings, no weak link in the chain and nothing can be done about it since anything else would immediately get punished and insta-killed. Sound like fun? Didn't think so. 

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I'm a very fresh player and a IJN CV main - I get a lot of peace and love in the in-game chat every now and then :Smile_unsure:

 

That being said - WoWs is a difficult game. It has a steep learning curve, it requires a lot memory, training and keeping up to date with ships and changes. It's not a game for match-three-gamers. It will be however the dominant kind of gamer coming in - they'll either churn, learn or stubbornly try bruteforcing their way through the battles. The only thing helps is in the end some kind of friendly mentoring (as in - not containing "stupid", "worthless" and so on). It was in the end an USN BB I repeatedly tried to AP bomb, that explained me why it doesn't work.

 

Everyone starts here as a potato - it's our job to try to make good players out of them. The game doesn't encourage it (team play is woefully unrewarded) and it's against short term personal interest, but if we keep aloof in our ivory conning towers, we risk having no-one good to play with in the long run.

 

On a lighter note - everyone has his weaker moments. Quite recently I tried to outgun a Georgia. In a Shokaku.

Since you won't meet the guy/gal often enough to remember them, it's easy to take a potato moment for a potato mindset.

 

also - 1st post in the forums. Long live and prosper everyone.

Edited by mein_nick_ist_besetzt
typo in an embarassing place

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50 minutes ago, mein_nick_ist_besetzt said:

 

On a lighter note - everyone has his weaker moments. Quite recently I tried to outgun a Georgia. In a Shokaku.

Since you won't meet the guy/gal often enough to remember them, it's easy to take a potato moment for a potato mindset.

 

Ah that was you, 🤣😭

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3 hours ago, mein_nick_ist_besetzt said:

I'm a very fresh player and a IJN CV main - I get a lot of peace and love in the in-game chat every now and then :Smile_unsure:

 

That being said - WoWs is a difficult game. It has a steep learning curve, it requires a lot memory, training and keeping up to date with ships and changes.

 

The game doesn't encourage it (team play is woefully unrewarded) and it's against short term personal interest,

 

 

 

Hi and welcome to the game/forum. Nice to see new blood.

 

I just want to pick you up on a couple of points. WoWS is not as difficult as it first appears. It isn't essential to memorise the characteristics of every ship to be effective (though doing so will help you to excel). A lot can be learned through trial and error during normal gameplay.

 

Contrary to popular opinion teamplay is quite well rewarded. Teamplay, more than anything else, will give your team the win and that generates an extra 50% in rewards. I, personally, find teamplay very rewarding - I fight for my team far more than I ever fight for myself. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, xxNihilanxx said:

(...) WoWS is not as difficult as it first appears. It isn't essential to memorise the characteristics of every ship to be effective (though doing so will help you to excel). A lot can be learned through trial and error during normal gameplay.

 

Well jain. First the economy mechanics - resources, experience and cash. All coming in two forms. Modules, upgrades, consumables (2 kinds), captain skills. Camos and signals. By the time you're done with your 50th battle you're exposed to all of that. I do acknowledge the gradual exposition thing - it helps but not a lot. And it nowhere near covers the far more profound part of the mechanics - battle related. Shell types, damage (alpha and dpm), armour, penetration angles, detectability, torpedo protection, aa, and all the other what-nots and shenanigans I don't even know about beacuse I suck at gunships really bad.

 

I do agree that it doesn't really influence the "fun and engaging gameplay" until tier V. Afterwards things get bumpy.

 

And then the learning the ships. As a CV it's almost a hard requirement. Loosing an entire deck because Smolensk/Minotaur will cost you the ability to do anything else in that battle. I play too little "proper" ships to know if that translates well, but I'd assume so - knowledge that high tier US cruisers don't carry torpedoes seems a quite important insight to me ;)

 

1 minute ago, xxNihilanxx said:

Contrary to popular opinion teamplay is quite well rewarded. Teamplay, more than anything else, will give your team the win and that generates an extra 50% in rewards. I, personally, find teamplay very rewarding - I fight for my team far more than I ever fight for myself.

 

Yes. On a very abstract level - yes. You're hardly incentivized though - the best thing I can do for my team as a CV is to keep ships spotted, provide aa support and potentially break lines with torpedo attacks forcing the enemy to expose themselves and overextend. However, the best thing I can do for my credits and xp rating is hunt lonely or half-dead ships, farm damage on irrelevant targets and avoid loosing planes. Again I'm not sure if this translates well to other classes but I hope you get my point.

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1 hour ago, xxNihilanxx said:

WoWS is not as difficult as it first appears.

No. It is even more difficult than it first appears, at least if you want to become more than an average player. Mechanics is something you can learn at day one if you want to. The mastery of WoWs is map awarness, and this you can only learn by playing a lot of battles.

 

I think the OP got a point, but there is another one: WoWs gets a lot more difficult at higher tiers. The more people reach higher tiers without gaining skill in the process, the more their lack of skill becomes visible. This is an inherent fault of the Wargaming grind system, and Wargaming is making it even worse by selling T8/T9 ships to beginners (remember the times where Tirpitz was the noob ship because it was the highest-tier and most-sold premium).

 

Last, more and more firepower on the board doesn't make the game more forgiving.

 

 

 

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