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How do YOU guys play Gneisenau ?

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How do you guys play Gneisenau effectively?

And by that I mean consistently get around 100k dmg per battle

 

1.)

I'm terrible in this ship no matter what I try to do.

Gneisenau's main battery is just frustrating beyond measure at long range and it does not deal damage reliably.

So whenever I exchange fire with a cruiser I get HE spammed into oblivion. 

And no, RNG does not bless me with some random citadel hits.

 

2.)

Whenever I try to get close and brawl I get torpedoed into oblivion by both DDs and cruisers.

Even without getting torpedoed I'm always getting scrapped by enemy team focusing their fire on me because, of course, the rest of my team stays behind because, unlike me, they can deal damage from behind.

 

And of course, you can't brawl with cruisers, because they can just outrun you (see point 1.))

 

So how do YOU guys avoid these things when brawling with your Gneisenaus ?

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, RaDDoXPL said:

How do you guys play Gneisenau effectively?

And by that I mean consistently get around 100k dmg per battle

 

1.)

I'm terrible in this ship no matter what I try to do.

Gneisenau's main battery is just frustrating beyond measure at long range and it does not deal damage reliably.

So whenever I exchange fire with a cruiser I get HE spammed into oblivion. 

And no, RNG does not bless me with some random citadel hits.

 

2.)

Whenever I try to get close and brawl I get torpedoed into oblivion by both DDs and cruisers.

Even without getting torpedoed I'm always getting scrapped by enemy team focusing their fire on me because, of course, the rest of my team stays behind because, unlike me, they can deal damage from behind.

 

And of course, you can't brawl with cruisers, because they can just outrun you (see point 1.))

 

So how do YOU guys avoid these things when brawling with your Gneisenaus ?

 

 

 

 

Simple Answer, I don't play it!

 

Have to say though it was strong in sprint. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, RaDDoXPL said:

How do you guys play Gneisenau effectively?

And by that I mean consistently get around 100k dmg per battle

 

1.)

I'm terrible in this ship no matter what I try to do.

Gneisenau's main battery is just frustrating beyond measure at long range and it does not deal damage reliably.

So whenever I exchange fire with a cruiser I get HE spammed into oblivion. 

And no, RNG does not bless me with some random citadel hits.

 

2.)

Whenever I try to get close and brawl I get torpedoed into oblivion by both DDs and cruisers.

Even without getting torpedoed I'm always getting scrapped by enemy team focusing their fire on me because, of course, the rest of my team stays behind because, unlike me, they can deal damage from behind.

 

And of course, you can't brawl with cruisers, because they can just outrun you (see point 1.))

 

So how do YOU guys avoid these things when brawling with your Gneisenaus ?

While it is possible to average 100k in her, it is impossible to do around 100k consistently.

 

Gneisenau needs to get close. Do that without being the target for half the enemy fleet. Patience is key, to spot an opening for an approach.

Stay near your DD, then torps are not a problem. When you have difficulty with cruiser torps, work on your WASD, you are too predictable.

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Do 100k consistently, lol. It's a T7, not some T10. Unless you are superunicum, settle for realistic goals please. More important imo is getting a positive WR, 55% or up. 

 

As for how, patience, controlled aggression. Learn when to push and when to kite. Gneisenau is good at either. Try to learn to look for opportunities to get in, kill something, get out (or if it was the only thing, move on). As you get to know the ship and get familiar with it, you learn what you can expect of her and what moves you can do and which ones will get you killed. Yes, the guns aren't incredibly reliable, but it should teach you to not count on them. And frankly, it's a valuable lesson, because you shouldn't count on the one-shot kill ever. Learned that in Thunderer the other day again, when I hit 8 out of 8 HE shells on a DD and it survived on a few hundred hp to torp me. 

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Gneisenau is one of the worst tier 7 battleships, because except speed and some armor, it has nothing else!

It is even worse than her sister Sharnhorst, because Gneisenau has fewer guns which although of higher caliber are much more inaccurate and have lower damage output! That's why Sharnhorst is premium and Gneisenau is NOT and the latter doesn't even have an option to equip the historic 280 mm guns!

:Smile_trollface:

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28 minutes ago, Jean_Bart said:

Gneisenau is one of the worst tier 7 battleships, because except speed and some armor, it has nothing else!

Yeah, who wants to win games? Apparantly not you.

image.thumb.png.b5a7a02d588fa5189204b1f43318ab56.png

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20191109/eu_2month/average_ship.html

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Anyone who says the ship is just rubbish doesn't know how to play her.

 

The art is getting into brawling range without getting spammed to death by HE so it's about patience, using islands to cut down on the amount of people shooting you at any one time finding an opening and then closing into secondary/torp range at full speed to make most of your attributes.

 

I only had a 51.2% win rate when I ground through her but really enjoyed her at the time had a couple of monster games when the sun shone on me :Smile_Default:

 

If you want to see the play style from someone better than me see the recent vid by Flamu:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucPOU5oH7OM

 

The one comment of his I disagree with is not going secondaries, I'm sure in general he is right but it's German BB's without secondaries you are missing the point sure take fire prevention but I'd still take AFT and manual secondaries first :Smile_smile:

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On 10/21/2019 at 10:59 PM, RaDDoXPL said:

How do you guys play Gneisenau effectively?

 

Aggressively.

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On 11/16/2019 at 11:23 AM, Jean_Bart said:

Gneisenau is one of the worst tier 7 battleships, because except speed and some armor, it has nothing else!

It is even worse than her sister Sharnhorst, because Gneisenau has fewer guns which although of higher caliber are much more inaccurate and have lower damage output! That's why Sharnhorst is premium and Gneisenau is NOT and the latter doesn't even have an option to equip the historic 280 mm guns!

:Smile_trollface:

I did not like the Gneis because of the guns, but the platform is excellent with solid armor, speed, torps, AA and secondaries. So you can always throw it into close range where despite the wonky dispersion it will murder virtually any other tier 7 BB.

 

Again I did not like it, but I can't call it bad when you look at the opposition.  

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15 hours ago, samphilconlor said:

The one comment of his I disagree with is not going secondaries, I'm sure in general he is right but it's German BB's without secondaries you are missing the point sure take fire prevention but I'd still take AFT and manual secondaries first :Smile_smile:

Gneisenau is the best German secondary platform tier for tier, imo. Mostly because at T7, it is uncontested in efficiency, it needs only two skills invested to be full-penning same and lower tier ships (IFHE is unnecessary for that, while for higher tiers it would be required to deal with BBs) and at T7, you can get away easier with sinking captain points into that, as many don't run full 19 pt captains there, compared to T10, where you'd expect them more.

4 hours ago, ollonborre said:

I did not like the Gneis because of the guns, but the platform is excellent with solid armor, speed, torps, AA and secondaries. So you can always throw it into close range where despite the wonky dispersion it will murder virtually any other tier 7 BB.

 

Again I did not like it, but I can't call it bad when you look at the opposition.  

The guns are 3/4 of a Bismarck. Like, literally, you only have one gun turret less. Now, yes, the greater quantity one tier up helps a bit, but you gotta learn to live with that dispersion, because Bismarck, FdG and GK are just as wonky. Bismarck and FdG just shoot 8 shells and GK 12. But you'd expect such improvements over the tiers. Personally, I got into Gneisenau after I finished Bismarck and had gotten used to how they behave. Because frankly, not all is terrible with the guns, because their bigesst drawbacks are mediocre accuracy and low barrel count, but:

  • they rotate fast, allowing the turrets to keep track of targets quite well.
  • they reload fast, getting down to almost 20s if you lose hp with AR. half-dead Gneisenau can still be dangerous.
  • they overmatch and penetrate well. They are T8 material after all. Gneisenau is with Nagato and Colorado here, not like Lyon that has no overmatch, Nelson that has crap pen or KGV that is terrible in both regards here.
  • they have high shell velocity. This means less lead necessary and less reaction time for the target. Gneisenau, like Bismarck and any high shell velocity ship can snapshot quite well, unlike ships like Colorado, NC, Lion, Conqueror or Thunderer that may be accurate (Lion and Conq are not), but give quite a bit of time to just evade, so most shells plunge accurately where the target no longer is.
  • Gneisenau gets underestimated. People consider it often the least threat and are more likely to bet on your crap accuracy, just to get absolutely devastated when the Gneisenau can properly lead and adjust for possible attempts at evasion and RNG gives a minor blessing. Similarly, people at times overestimate their ability to deal with the ship and miss the chance to disengage before it is too late and 32 knots moved you into their face.
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9 hours ago, Sleepy_Bunny said:

... you gotta learn to live with that dispersion, because Bismarck, FdG and GK are just as wonky.

And that's why these ships are just as bad!

9 hours ago, Sleepy_Bunny said:

...not all is terrible with the guns, because their bigesst drawbacks are mediocre accuracy and low barrel count, but:

Accuracy and barrel count... that's basically everything that matters for "all big guns"!

Gneisenau's guns are not the best, not the most powerful nor with the best accuracy! On top of that they are just 6 on Gneisenau! Queen Elizabeth at tier 6 has better guns with more damage and penetration (both on HE and AP), excellent accuracy, they are EIGHT and have better DPM than Gneisenau!

9 hours ago, Sleepy_Bunny said:
  • they reload fast, getting down to almost 20s if you lose hp with AR. half-dead Gneisenau can still be dangerous..

Scharnhorst has 20 sec reload time without captain's skills and while on full HP! :Smile_trollface:

It also has more numerous and more accurate guns which hit better and more often, despite the smaller caliber!

So, basically Gneisenau cannot equal Scharnhorst even at favorable situation and additional captain perks! :Smile_teethhappy:

9 hours ago, Sleepy_Bunny said:
  • they overmatch and penetrate well. They are T8 material after all. Gneisenau is with Nagato and Colorado here, not like Lyon that has no overmatch, Nelson that has crap pen or KGV that is terrible in both regards here.

giphy.gif

406/410 mm guns on Colorado and Nagato have much better penetration and damage both on HE and AP!

Lyon has high number of barrels for unmatched broadside weight and despite their lower caliber, the HE is viable option because of much higher number of shells!

Nelson and KGV have imenese fire chance on HE and burn enemy ships of all kinds with ease! Did i mention they have better accuracy and more gun barrels than Gneisenau?! :Smile_trollface:

Gneisenau has neither! :Smile_sceptic:

9 hours ago, Sleepy_Bunny said:
  • they have high shell velocity. This means less lead necessary and less reaction time for the target. Gneisenau, like Bismarck and any high shell velocity ship can snapshot quite well, unlike ships like Colorado, NC, Lion, Conqueror or Thunderer that may be accurate (Lion and Conq are not), but give quite a bit of time to just evade, so most shells plunge accurately where the target no longer is.

High shell velocity and lighter shells means low penetration, especially at distance!

Despite the higher shell velocity of Gneisenau's guns and "less lead", their accuracy ensures less hits anyway! :Smile_teethhappy: The low number of barrels further compromises the chances to hit anything! :Smile_trollface:

9 hours ago, Sleepy_Bunny said:
  • Gneisenau gets underestimated. People consider it often the least threat and are more likely to bet on your crap accuracy, just to get absolutely devastated when the Gneisenau can properly lead and adjust for possible attempts at evasion and RNG gives a minor blessing. Similarly, people at times overestimate their ability to deal with the ship and miss the chance to disengage before it is too late and 32 knots moved you into their face.

That sounds like some epic heroic fiction, but in real games this seldom happens! :Smile_teethhappy:

Your Gneisenau-cheerleading agenda is not based on reason, because your arguments have nothing to do with facts and logic! :Smile_sceptic:

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23 hours ago, Jean_Bart said:

Queen Elizabeth at tier 6 has better guns with more damage and penetration (both on HE and AP)

That's factually incorrect and the rest of your post is just a bunch of *edit* that ignores most things I said and is basically what you accuse us of.

23 hours ago, Jean_Bart said:

Your Gneisenau-cheerleading agenda is not based on reason, because your arguments have nothing to do with facts and logic! :Smile_sceptic:

So, well, hate it all you like, it won't make the Gneisenau less of an impactful ship that can actually carry when played properly and get the numbers. But certain people rather complain.

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Gneisenau has over 100mm more penetration with AP at 10km than QE...

There is a similar difference at 16km....

 

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Information from bogus sites that may even be managed by yourselves is not reliable!

I NEVER click or visit russian sites!

 

You are basically arguing against well known and obvious facts just for the sake of arguing!

1. Gneisenau has the fewest guns among tier 7 battleships! - FACT!

2. Gneisenau's main guns have the worst accuracy and dispersion among tier 7 BBs! - FACT!

3. Gneisenau has the worst DPM of all tier 7 battleships and even worse than some tier 6s and 5s! - FACT!

 

Are you going to say anything against these facts?!

No matter what other arguments you bring, these 3 simple facts are enough to deem Gneisenau as the worst tier 7 battleship!

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39 minutes ago, Jean_Bart said:

Sources?!

Proofs?!

Experience at least?!

Gneisenau shells have much flatter trajectory then QE (she has 203 mm cruiser shell travel). It means they have much faster speed, so their penetration much be higher due to greater kinetic energy.

 

Anyway Gneis is not fun ship to play. She should get at least some dispertion buff.

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Vor 8 Minuten, Jean_Bart sagte:

Information from bogus sites that may even be managed by yourselves is not reliable!

I NEVER click or visit russian sites!

 

You are basically arguing against well known and obvious facts just for the sake of arguing!

1. Gneisenau has the fewest guns among tier 7 battleships! - FACT!

2. Gneisenau's main guns have the worst accuracy and dispersion among tier 7 BBs! - FACT!

3. Gneisenau has the worst DPM of all tier 7 battleships and even worse than some tier 6s and 5s! - FACT!

 

Are you going to say anything against these facts?!

No matter what other arguments you bring, these 3 simple facts are enough to deem Gneisenau as the worst tier 7 battleship!

So what?

 

If you think, DPM is everything that matters in the game, you clearly have not yet understood the game.

 

Atlanta has more DPM than Yamato. Following your argumentation, Atlanta is the superior ship.

 

Look at ships like Stalingrad with absolutely lacking DPM and call them underpowered....

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3 minutes ago, Jean_Bart said:

Information from bogus sites that may even be managed by yourselves is not reliable!

I NEVER click or visit russian sites!

 

You are basically arguing against well known and obvious facts just for the sake of arguing!

1. Gneisenau has the fewest guns among tier 7 battleships! - FACT!

2. Gneisenau's main guns have the worst accuracy and dispersion among tier 7 BBs! - FACT!

3. Gneisenau has the worst DPM of all tier 7 battleships and even worse than some tier 6s and 5s! - FACT!

 

Are you going to say anything against these facts?!

No matter what other arguments you bring, these 3 simple facts are enough to deem Gneisenau as the worst tier 7 battleship!

Then use the other sites... :fish_palm:

And you can look up the people responsible for a site...

 

And no, we do not.

  1. Please tell us where someone says differently,...     ...but gun barrels do not mean much, see Friesland/Somers
  2. Lyon has the worst accuracy and dispersion... :Smile_facepalm: ... but you seem to mix up accuracy and hit rating...
  3. Please tell us where someone says differently,...      ... but as Grossadmiral_H_invader explained DPM does not mean much...
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And facts are - Gneis is underpowered. Both seen from stats and personal experience. In my list of all VI/VII BB have 14 place on 19 with 66k average/1.29 kill. On par with Dunk and PeF. While other VII BB have from 73 to 100K (Lyon & Nelson). So Gneis is poor damage dealer for me.

Mayby in ultra unicuum hands with good RNG ? I am probably too weak to call it good.

 

From: 17.09.2019

 

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Raw Damage is only one aspect.

 

German BBs are the less weakest BBs against DDs, so unlike other nations you tend to hunt down targets with less HP. A BB that takes down a full HP Destroyer only does around 15 k damage, but has huge impact.

 

My KGV average Damage is also 20 k above Gneisenau’s but the actual game impact of KGV is reasonably smaller, since it just falls apart when you push.

Not to forget, that RN BBs tend to generate a lot of totally worthless fire damage, that can be healed back up.

 

Not to talk about the tanking potential.

Gneisenau is the only Tier 7 BB besides Sinop, that will not fully fall apart, when being spammed by HE.

 

It is not all about the Raw Damage.

 

Funny thing is, that german BBs are extremely strong, when played ranked.

 

All this comparing barrels, raw DPM and alpha on paper is just BS.

 

 

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On 11/16/2019 at 11:23 AM, Jean_Bart said:

Gneisenau is one of the worst tier 7 battleships, because except speed and some armor, it has nothing else!

It has 380mm Main Guns, a Secondary that hurts and Torpedos to that speed. I don't know what you base your Judgement on but it clearly isn't on reality.

 

13 hours ago, Jean_Bart said:

You are basically arguing against well known and obvious facts just for the sake of arguing!

1. Gneisenau has the fewest guns among tier 7 battleships! - FACT!

2. Gneisenau's main guns have the worst accuracy and dispersion among tier 7 BBs! - FACT!

3. Gneisenau has the worst DPM of all tier 7 battleships and even worse than some tier 6s and 5s! - FACT!

So you make your damage over throwing enough crap at the wall and not playing to the ships strenght then?

Also Facts Gneisenau comes with Torpedos secondaries and the Armor to match gets conviniently swept under the rug. Unlike Nagato it can tank better, unlike Colorado it move better unlike Lyon its not made of paper guns that have an even worse dispersion but that goes unnoticed cause you throw enough. King George has her Fire going but with the Citadel Changed it eats a boatload..just as DOY

Ashitaka Suffers from much more annoying Dispersion as well....

And her Sister simply does not have the dispersion or penetration going for her.

So yes i don't think you compare objectively there. The numbers are not the best indicator as well as you have a very large number of german bb enthusiasts that play her. if played  to her Strenghts she is quiet strong. But that is individual People taking the time understanding her.

 

Also comparing BBs by DPM is a little.... SPESHUL....

Be accurate and delelete... don't go over "I JUST NEED TO THROW MORE crap ON WALL TO KILL"

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In version 0.8.11 the following balance changes will be made:

 

German battleships:

  • Ellipse of main caliber gun shells dispersion is adjusted to the settings of the American and British battleships.

This change will increase the accuracy of all German battleships and make the playing experience more comfortable

 

WG at least admitted that secondaries and torps can't ballance bad gun performance.

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1 hour ago, Odo_Toothless said:

WG at least admitted that secondaries and torps can't ballance bad gun performance.

I wouldn't celebrate just yet, let's see what effect this actually has on the German BB's gun performance first, surely..

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4 hours ago, Odo_Toothless said:

WG at least admitted that secondaries and torps can't ballance bad gun performance.

No. They did not say such a thing.

There is a HUGE lobby for KM BB and two of the biggest fans sit in their own company (MrConway and Crysantos).

WG wrote: 

Quote

 This change will increase the accuracy of all German battleships and make the playing experience more comfortable.

It is a Quality of Life change, mainly lowering the skill floor.

 

And the PROPOSED changes are not big. Most of the improvement happens below 12km.

As lafeel said, lets see how that influences the performance.

 

I do not agree to the changes.

  • It is a global change, strong KM BB are affected too
  • Focusing on the weaker ships would have been better
  • Players might feel encouraged now to snipe more with KM BB
  • Improvements to the tanking ability or secondaries would have been better to strengthen their roles as close quarter BB
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I like the idea of buffing german BBs.

 

But the change to dispersion of main guns will make a different playstyle possible, that was ineffective before.

 

I would have liked to see an extension of the secondaryrange, probably of up to 13 km for Bismarck. Pair that with built in BFT.

 

And no, in times of Smolensk up to 20 km HE spam from fog, this would certainly not be OP.

 

On the other hand, lets wait how the changes will affect the ships.

 

Since they are not changing the sigma...

 

 

btw, are they buffing könig too? That ship has Sigma 2.0 and plays like a railgun even now.

 

 

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