How are new "Regia Marina" cruisers armed with AP & SAP comparable to "Royal Navy" light cruisers armed with only AP (albeit "special")? Who got the "better deal" regarding guns?

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

 

How are new "Regia Marina" cruisers armed with AP & SAP comparable to "Royal Navy" light cruisers armed with only AP (albeit "special")?

 

Who got the "better deal" regarding guns?

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

 

 

P.S.

I am specifically interested in comparison of specific situations when enemy target is well angled...

[Srle_Vigilante]

Italians. But its not so dry cut. (I only have the Zara at the time of writing)

Italian SAP loves squishy targets. It does huge damage to dds, light armoured cruisers and BB superstructure. Anything else use AP... if AP don't cut you s  outta luck pal.

Torpedoes are also mostly just a boat version of a scarecrow... they are the worst ship based torpedoes ever...

 

What i like the most about Italians is their shell velocity. A true velocity that a German bias would kill for... Amazing speed amazing arcs.

Also they are squishy as a badly made pizza. A Izumo citadeled me with HE. 

 

That's all i gathered in 3 games i played.

[Tyrendian89]

not sure how much sense any direct comparison (in the sense of "which is better") would make, considering one line is Heavy and the other are Light Cruisers, so they're drastically different in... well everything from rate of fire to ballistics to penetration to targets etcetera

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

 

3 minutes ago, Tyrendian89 said:

not sure how much sense any direct comparison (in the sense of "which is better") would make, considering one line is Heavy and the other are Light Cruisers, so they're drastically different in... well everything from rate of fire to ballistics to penetration to targets etcetera

 

What I really meant was how they compare in specific situations when enemy target is well angled...

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

 

 

[Miragetank90]

4 minutes ago, Srle_Vigilante said:

Torpedoes are also mostly just a boat version of a scarecrow... they are the worst ship based torpedoes ever...

 

Worse than the 4km mainline Soviet CA torps? 

[Srle_Vigilante]

6 minutes ago, Miragetank90 said:

Worse than the 4km mainline Soviet CA torps? 

Well those at least obliterate the thing that you hit...

[DFens_666]

3 minutes ago, Leo_Apollo11 said:

Hi all,

 

 

What I really meant was how they compare in specific situations when enemy target is well angled...

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

 

 

 

RM SAP has better penetration angles than RN sAP. So i guess its not even a competition? Ontop of having normal AP aswell.

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

Played a few rounds on the tier 5 Montecucolli. I have never played the Emerald, so that is a bit difficult to compare. 

My experience so far is that I need to put in a great effort for only 30 - 50k damage with her. The Italian torpedoes are fun to use, while the SAP shells are super boring. Fighting against battleships is extremely boring. Half of your shells will result in ricochets / non penetrations or 1 - 2k damage per salvo (14s reload). 
I hear rumors about SAP doing well against squishy targets, but squishy targets are called squishy for a reason... It is not like SAP makes a difference. The tier 5 hull feels pretty strong, but over those 7 battles it could have been luck as well. 

The only reason I will grind this line is because Italian ships look pretty cool and perhaps some use can be found for the exhaust smoke generator in competitive. Whether it will be a better ship than the Zao / Minotaur has to be seen...

I would come as a surprise if the RM cruisers will out perform the British ones. The tier 5 is RN cruiser is one of the weakest, from tier 6 and onward RN cruisers are really good cruisers.

[Yedwy]

[AlphaBaboon]

44 minuti fa, Srle_Vigilante ha scritto:

Italians. But its not so dry cut. (I only have the Zara at the time of writing)

Italian SAP loves squishy targets. It does huge damage to dds, light armoured cruisers and BB superstructure. Anything else use AP... if AP don't cut you s  outta luck pal.

Torpedoes are also mostly just a boat version of a scarecrow... they are the worst ship based torpedoes ever...

 

What i like the most about Italians is their shell velocity. A true velocity that a German bias would kill for... Amazing speed amazing arcs.

Also they are squishy as a badly made pizza. A Izumo citadeled me with HE. 

 

That's all i gathered in 3 games i played.

I think Italian torps should be just spam-based every once in a while towards enemy area or behind corners of islands, since they are few very slow but with good range. So just a metter of luck farming some damage out of them.

As for SAP they should have far better angle pen than standard AP and never overpen. I still didnt earn an Ita cruiser but from what I saw in videos you almost always use SAP at the end, except when you have a full broadside ship to shoot at. Really curious to see how they will perform in my hands. As cruisers ATM I got the hindy and the zao. They will probably be much different than both of them and any other cruiser perhap.

[AlphaBaboon]

9 minuti fa, Yedwy ha scritto:

not much damage to get the kraken. Looks like it might be a good enemy finishing ship, and ofc a dd predator. Or maybe its just situational for this specific battle

[Panzerblitz]

I'm still a bit torn:

The Montecuccoli and Trento aren't that hot, long reload, easy to hit citadels, too little armor and also not that accurate. The Zara seems way more accurate and has a relatively tanky belt, her only disadvantage is the low speed at 32 kts. The Amalfi takes all the qualities of the Zara, adds an extra gun and roughly 5 more kts. I wouldn't rate any of them as a top cruiser pick at their respective tier.

So far not convinced that SAP shells can rival the ability to start fires. Gonna need more games and higher level ITA captains before I reach a verdict.

[AlphaBaboon]

58 minuti fa, Leo_Apollo11 ha scritto:

Hi all,

 

How are new "Regia Marina" cruisers armed with AP & SAP comparable to "Royal Navy" light cruisers armed with only AP (albeit "special")?

 

Who got the "better deal" regarding guns?

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

 

 

P.S.

I am specifically interested in comparison of specific situations when enemy target is well angled...

Well angled in theory SAP would be better in any case.
But the comparison doesnt make much sense. Shells are different under any perspective. if we take a Minotaur it has dramatically slow shell velocity, plunging arcs, but good pen and the rate of fire is ridicolousy good. Italians fire very flat shells, with excellent velocity. Sap will have good angles but the rate of fire is very low. It's just an exchange for very different lines and play styles. With a mino you are supposed to play as a medium range stealthy spammer in most of the cases. With Ita cruisers you are going to be a long distance sniping cruiser, albeit light

[orlathebeast]

after the nerf, that wast'r necessary at all, SAP and RM ships in general go from "decent" to complete trash. most of them can be classified at "low quality garabge".

[Aragathor]

I have played both Italian T5s, T6, and T8. I also have played every single RN CL.

 

If given a choice I would always take the RN CL over the RM CA/CL. The British ships have so many utilities that allow them to work that they can easily cope with an angled target (single shot torps), their relative lack of armor (smoke & heal), and much more. In comparison the RM cruisers have a smoke that is often useless, because even if you smoke up after shooting, the smoke firing penalty is large enough to let a DD keep you spotted. Other than the smoke gimmick every other category of the ship is average or bad. The rudder is cr@p and gets damaged too easily, the torps are a joke, AA is barely average, the armor scheme makes it easy to get deleted when angled, and you have 0 tools against a DD. All of those weaknesses as compensation for an ammo type that can't hurt an angled ship, making you a helpless victim.

 

Even the weak sauce premium Ducas are better, and they aren't stellar performers.

[Miragetank90]

1 hour ago, Srle_Vigilante said:

Well those at least obliterate the thing that you hit...

 

Yeah, but the point-blank range means they hardly ever get a chance to be used, at least in my experience. Especially given the playstyle of the Soviet CAs. 

 

The Italians on the other hand have many more opportunities to do so. The issue is the low speed, everything is OK otherwise if I remember rightly and the range is great.

The low speed can be used in your favour when kiting away, or when being chased at a distance. If a target is coming towards you from a ways beyond max range, you can still launch and hit, thanks to the torps taking so long to travel, since by the time the torps arrive they(enemy) have already travelled into range of the position where it was first launched. 

 

Yeah it's tricky though. Hitrates will not be high, but it's something. At point-blank range, they'll still do big damage, but this is also something else they can do that the sovs can't. For me, this means they're a bit better overall. 

[Yedwy]

33 minutes ago, EiricBloodgun said:

not much damage to get the kraken. Looks like it might be a good enemy finishing ship, and ofc a dd predator. Or maybe its just situational for this specific battle

Yep hardly any DOT so you get lower damage and delete DDs, lower tier ships have slower shells so the Amalfi is the first that is really good at blapping DDs at range but boy she is good at that...

 

This fight - 3 dead DDs, 1 devstriked Bismark (torps) and I dont remember what the last was I think a buddy but not sure...

 

Also I took a look at the armor schemes in the port and Venezia will be A LOT different beast then all before her, all others have normal citadel belts, Venezia has a citadel belt but inside the spaced armor, she will take pens but citing her when kiting should be exceptionally difficult...

[Mr_Tayto]

Bought (I know...) The Genoa last night and in the two games I managed was bottom tier both times and survived and won both, dealing 8-9k salvoes on DDs and top tier BBs superstructures and extremities. Even managed a torp hit (people forget about those sea mines, eh @Bear_Necessities ). My opinion on it is that it is everything difficult about playing a cruiser distilled, without the crutch of firestarting. I like it (and it's a beauty as Italian ships tend to be).

 

I love a challenging ship, especially one that CCs and forumites trash. I'm looking forward to playing this line.

[Bear__Necessities]

5 minutes ago, Mr_Tayto said:

Bought (I know...) The Genoa last night and in the two games I managed was bottom tier both times and survived and won both, dealing 8-9k salvoes on DDs and top tier BBs superstructures and extremities. Even managed a torp hit (people forget about those sea mines, eh @Bear_Necessities ). My opinion on it is that it is everything difficult about playing a cruiser distilled, without the crutch of firestarting. I like it (and it's a beauty as Italian ships tend to be).

 

I love a challenging ship, especially one that CCs and forumites trash. I'm looking forward to playing this line.

Aye, I hit a Sinop who thought it was safe to round an island as they take an age to get anywhere 

Won 2 game in genova last night. Bottom tier in both. Did alright. Got kills, murdered a Leaner, Dallas and Martel . Confederate in the 2nd game. Went 1 v 1 with a Furious Taco and won. Sinop loves my sea mines and DD’s.... poor DD’s.

 

But yes. Damage over time will be a big weakness against good players who angle in armoured ships and you can never not be on the move, like the French and IJN line. Kite kite kite. 

[KielYourself]

There is quite a difference between the two. I am only on the trento currently but the SAP already feels much nicer than UK cruiser ap. The reason is that the ballistics are much nicer, faster and flatter at close to medium range. Better pen angles as well. Also, the caliber is much higher meaning you do quite significant damage to all ship types especially lightly armored targets like dds and light cruisers. Uk cruisers much more dpm oriented while SAP is alphs punishment. Cant wait to try out the Venezia. 

[wot_2016_gunner]

I still haven't played Italian cruisers yet, but based on my experience I think that I'll play them similarly to the Japanese cruisers (which means stay at range and just SPAM). However, I still think that a 1 or 2 seconds reload buff would be nice, especially at high tiers to compensate the impossibility to start fires.

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

I was shot in my Smol yesterday, steeply angled, by a Venezia and my god did that hurt. The thing actually scared me :o

I think it might be the 'Italian Job' to keep the Russian cruisers in check 

[AlphaBaboon]

3 ore fa, Yedwy ha scritto:

Yep hardly any DOT so you get lower damage and delete DDs, lower tier ships have slower shells so the Amalfi is the first that is really good at blapping DDs at range but boy she is good at that...

 

This fight - 3 dead DDs, 1 devstriked Bismark (torps) and I dont remember what the last was I think a buddy but not sure...

 

Also I took a look at the armor schemes in the port and Venezia will be A LOT different beast then all before her, all others have normal citadel belts, Venezia has a citadel belt but inside the spaced armor, she will take pens but citing her when kiting should be exceptionally difficult...

How is the turret traverse and angle? It should be critical with huge citadels not to give too much broadside to fire all guns.
I saw i think was a Notser video on Youtube with Venezia t10. Really looks like a beast a heavy cruiser in all sense, with much much fire power per salvo. OFC the problem is the general DPM, since the reload is really slow and as you said you will hardly get any dot at all. I bet you can have pretty fun and good games and influence the course of the game, but the final damage output im not sure it will be competitve with other cruisers, but we will see anyway

[Yedwy]

Well angles are ok, turrets turn in 25-ish base range IIRC so its decent enough, I have EM on my cap (future Venzia cap) as take it on most heavy cruisers anyway... They can take some incoming shots when angeled, even Montecuccoli is quite decent in that regard acctually...

[hgbn_dk]

Only tried Montecuccoli so far and the light cruiser guns feels like a joke to be honest. Where is that high alpha?? even the AP feels lackluster on this calibre guns. Firing at broadside targets 650-1200 for a full slavo. Probably me but