Incentive to make players use their ship as intended

[Joergensen]

Hello, i have about 500 battles in every class of ships by now. All in all it looks good, DDs are a bit to powerful in the right hands but i think that will change.

My main consern is players that is of that belief that maximum range is always good, im reffering to map egde crawling battleships mainly.... Battleships are the ONLY ship in game ( apart from the top cruisers that will get a rep crew next patch) and have the skillsett to take a lot of beating. It is cruicial for the team to have battleship players that know when to push the attack... This rarly happens, normally a loss is when u have your top tier BB out at the map egde and the agressive DDs on your team dead....

At the moment WG does give XP only for damage, no mather the range, the solution to the problem of players destroying otherwise good gameplay for their team by being to far away from the action is to reduce the XP gain from damage done from loong distance. That means that the idiot in the top tier battleship on your team that are crawling the map egde "sniping" and missing hes shots in 9 out of 10 ( basicly he is just shooting) while your team gets molested and the bases capped even might end up on the top of the XP list.... and he can safly do it, because if you are driving a crioser deciding to do the same because u dont get support to start circling the enemy at closer range, guess hwo of you and the battleship that will manage to stay alive and do most damage the longest...

Some of the same problem goes with the US navy DD, they can stay att max range hurling a wall of steel at the enemy and still get decent XP, with little danger of being shot and far less hit.

For me this is an absolute turn off when it happens, yeah there is a difference from timing your attack in a BB and just rushing in to the torpedo wall of the opponent, but as of now the majority of BB players are getting to far out on the egdes to make a difference. I have tested and you do much more damage by just getting say 2/5 from max range on those guns, and at 10-12 km you rape those targets that dont run away (in tier 5-7 battle ships at least).

And i dont see torpedoes as a way to big problem in this mather, a single hit on the DD from a battleship would ruin hes/her day, but that would not likly happend from 20+Km away...

 

I just see the way things are going, i wont claim to have the fix for it, but something have to be done. In world of warships you are in a way more depending on your team then in world of tanks, if important ship classes dont fulfill their job you will end up loosing the battles, yes if you do your job well enough your win rate will go somewhat up, but there is no way for a cruiser to kill off 3-5 ships if it is alone, (well, u can, but not if a couple of those ships have a human being with some mental capasity). But it is frustrating when 3-5 ships have cleared the way and doing well, but starting to suffer some casualties and discover that the 2-3 of the  biggest badest motherfuckers of some battleships are scraping the border line , and cant do crap to help. they just crawl aroung shooting and waiting for the team do die so the opponent have to get closer to kill them...its a loss, its frustrating and currently this gets rewarded by WG....

[YukiEiriKun]

Well the problem is that for a "team" game, this game strongly rewards the selfish playstyle of staying out of the way from enemy fire and farming damage.

 

Which in the other hand help your team to win, but encourages selfis "I ain't going there to get shot at" mentality even that in SOME situations could help todistract the enemy.

[Joergensen]

Im not agree, it doesnt help win, it does improve "stats" and gives xp and credits. Someone always have to get in close, contact with the enemy is cruicial for a victory. Yeah in a destroyer a really good player can hang back and pick of the other guys scraping the line one by one. Thats another reason why being to far off the egdes is a disadvantage.  Its just that world of warships punish TEAMS with such players very hard atm. 3 times this morning i was using my tuier 7 pensacola, and did end up on that artic map was mid tier, we had a tier 8 US navy destroyer on our team and 3 battleships, against a similar set up on the other team, only that they had a sim tier 7 destroyer... our guy did drive and park behind a island on the egde of the map the first time... the sim did end up with 3 kills and we lost badly because the lack of eyes and decent torpedo treath at close range for the other team. The next fight he did just cruise along the side of the battle ships shooting blindly....we lost... to the guys hwo know how powerful it is to be top tier in a destroyer with few ships on both teams know how cruisial that DD is. It must be said our battle ships tryed hard seckond time, but first time they did just wait at the back to be picked off. btw that player was XXXXX, i did give him a friendly advice to maybe go down a couple of tiers or change class.... my bad, lost my temper because we almost had em first time... 

I am by far a top notch player, im more interested in tactics, and less good in fast action, and everybody makes mistakes or do a bad jugdement during combat, thats the fun part. 

But its not fun when u end up in matches with guys like him 4-6 times a row, just swap names and keep the attitude, and you know you wont get enything back from that battle, hell some times they beat u in XP because they at the end did have 4-6 targets at 7 km to choose from . And again, its not fun to play with wannabe pros... i can be hard with the language, but only to smucks hwo deserve it, To play should be done for fun, but noone plays to lose much, and lot less lose withoput having the oportunity to change the outcome of the battle.

 

The name is just taken so readers can see the relation to wot and playstyle, as they can with me. (or if they happend to have him in a destroyer on their team )

 

[zam_eu]

I don't think BBs attacking from max range have any advantage in terms of gaining XP for damage.

I have played BB at max range and close range.

At max range, I get to do fewer damage. For example after 100 shots I could only land about 20 hits with low to moderate damage.

At closer range, below 15km, I have better hit rate and do more damage and so I get more XP.

From my experience in battle, the BBs who stay outside the firing range are players who are waiting for easy kills after their teammates have weaken a target.

In other occasions I notice that while I was exchanging volleys with an enemy BB, a few other ships behind me didn't open fire on my target. They were just sitting there doing nothing. When I was sunked, only then they start attacking my target. I assume they are trying to safe their health by not attracting attention to themselves. This type of players annoys me alot and ruin the team gameplay spirit.

 

Update:

I forgot to say this. This players ( the two examples I given above ) seems to be focused on making kills. They don't seem to understand that kills do get you alot of XP but doing damage gets you more XP. And the only way to do damage is to get involved in the fight.

[Joergensen]

deleted the name

[YukiEiriKun]

deleted the name

 

Was it me? Dang, I missed it.

Back to the issue in hand..

 

I agree that farming damage is not the best way to win, but I took that as an example of the most used excuse you see in the WoT forums. "Do more damage -> your team wins". And whilst it sounds very agreeable, I do not agree. But then again I am pro capper and tend to do strange things while trying to poke the enemy out of their safe zones.

Well, that is not the most .. "productive" way to play, but I am not here to minmax, I am here to enjoy. I find powerplaying rather boring...

 

I am one of those players who do not want to leave any flank unattended, but rather go there by myself to get shot at. And then to be called "noob" because of that.

But I rather try something desperate than just give up. GO TEAM! ;D

 

And that brings me back to the main issue; Assisting your team is not rewarded. Yes, you may win the battle because your strange moves caused the enemy to blink at the wrong time, but even if you manage to get through the lines and cap the win before an overwhelming enemy, you get nothing for it except the win. And that encourages people to selfishly focus on the damage and kills.

 

These are random battles, you can't rely on your team (because there is no efficient communication) and you will not be rewarded for team efford if you do not have damage/kills no matter how much you harass and distract enemy. So F the team and focus on your own performance.

[valkarianism]

Hello, i have about 500 battles in every class of ships by now. 

 

I took a super double take because that means you have about 2000 battles. Haha. 

 

Anyway I've come to realise that in a multiplayer online game, you cannot force teamwork on players. Sure, giving incentives helps, and to a great extent at times. Allow me to cite sources like war txxxxxx, where achieving a teamwork medal often rewarded those who actually escorted and moved in packs, covering each other and repairing. It even has a teammate randomly selected. 

 

However, players need to have their freedom to decide the best course of action. And to be unable to decide that is basically down to the player's lack of experience And skill. But then that's not a crime. Nor a limitation.

 

So while basically giving incentives is good, it's not actually a problem when players are losing due to a lack of teamwork. It's just part of the game.

[Xevious_Red]

I personally have no objection if they put in the spotting xp mechanics from WoT, namely if you're in range to detect them yourself, you get full xp. If someone else is detecting them for you, you split your xp with your spotter.

 

This to me kills 3 birds with one stone:

It makes BB close to 15/17 km to get full xp for BB and CA

It gives xp for CV who brought an all fighter load out and are reduced to scouting DD.

It gives japanese DD something to do while they wait for their torps to reload

[Losqualo]

I think MANY of the problems regarding teamplay and the proper use of ships comes from the silly idea that WoWs is Wot with ships. Some players try to play a BB like a heavy tank, a CC like a medium tank and a DD like a light tank. It's hilarious how many players try to hide a BB behind an island half the size of the ship, or trying to play peekaboo with a CA moving slowly forward and backward.

Most of them come to the forums and whine about DDs and Torpedoes being OP... 

 

It would be better if there was a tutorial saying every 10 seconds "Ships are not tanks".

 

Regarding to your idea about BBs getting less XP by standing far away - that's already the case. Like you stated yourself, you get way less hits by staying far away and get therefore much less XP. Those "bad" players behavior won't be changed by any means, they are just bad players and sadly many of them won't improve because they play the way they think is the best and they won't listen to others. 

[Joergensen]

yeah agree, something has to be done, and i just hope the guys decideing in wot aint got to much to say in wows, My point is that when you have a game that is intended as a 15 team battle, there has to be incentives to get people to try help the team, incentive isnt the same as forcing....The guys really trying should get a cookie for it ;)  ;)  

And YukiEiriKun those hwo yells at you for doing what you are saying is eighter stat farmers or dont have the balls to do it themself, someone HAS to get shot at first,,,in every battle,

the clue is that in most cases you count on having a couple of players seeing that and maybe give some support....

[Vanhal]

Problem is, this is not friggin WoT. You can't just look at battleship and think: "wow this guy have some hp, so he must tank". WoWs is way more about mobility and positioning than WoT. And way less about armor than WoT. Try to play Warspite, that ship FORCE you to do what you want to impose on every BB. Effect is, one bad move, one bad decision and you end either too far and not doing anything or too close and dead. If after almost 500 battles you look at BB's and see only not necessary bad players doing not necessary bad thing and still whine because they do what WG wanted them to do you need to look again. For example, do you saw what damage those battleships do? That would mainly depends on the player, but i do much more damage on long ranges than on short, and there are two reasons for that: first, i live longer, closing in bb in first half of the battle usually means that you get stomped by half enemy team, and secondary, being slow, usually only way i can reach those enemies, especially at second half of the battle is by utilizing bigger range.

Remember, that what we have now is how WG WANTED it to be. Although they also see that something is a little bit off, hence we have "brawler" Warspite introduced, but this is wrong way i think. Forcing BB to act like cruisers is redundant, cruisers do it better. Think about US BB's, how would you like to make their guns for example 13 km range? With 21kn speed? They would be utterly useless. Rebalancing whole class, especially in beta is delicate task, because you would need to rebalance each and every ship from other class too.

What i definitely can agree is making more xp for tasks not involving dealing damage to ships - scouting, shooting planes, capping bases etc.

[Joergensen]

Losqualo, kind of agree, just hates to admit to myself that IF they doesnt adjust it propperly it is going to prevent me from playing it after beta. I just cross my fingers and hope they learned from WoWp and WoT.

I wont spend hours with a game once more hoping they will fix it sooner or later, i quit playing WoT after last patch, because i like heavy tanks, and was promised a pen nerf for all mediums tier 10...

wich didnt happend,,,,,(not fully quit, i still fool around with friends, but only a couple of battles now and then)

[Joergensen]

Vanhal, please check out what your seckondary weapons are capable off ;) And please comon, eny fool can stay in a corner with a BB doing damage,,,even lots of it ( we are talking 70K pluss right ???)

I can see your comment to a fellow player giving you some not so kind words for crawling the line:  

he: you &/&%¤# camping at the back not helping your team.   you: ooh look i did xx damage, then i must be realy good at this...   

All this while your team desperate trying to kill off the last couple off battleships defending their base,,, and it ends with a loss.......

and you get another XX K damage when the 2 ships left on the enemy team comes to kill ya.

 

 

Of course, YOU didnt lose the battle alone, but IF you had helped you might have helped your TEAM win in say 20% to 50% of the time...

The only chance you have when border crawling is that the players left are screwing it up....badly..

[Vulgarny]

Yes please charge head on in BBs trying to get into secondary range.

[knaveofengland]

change the maps not 3 bases but 2

[Joergensen]

well, it was you hwo mentioned damage only ;)  just shows that you should be aware of ALL facts

[CloakingDonkey]

500 battles in each class, huh?

 

Now I'm not someone to think that you have to have played a 1000 games before you're allowed to speak (seeing as I myself have only had time for like 250 battles) but it does kind of diminish your points if your opening statement is a blatant lie. Just saying. You're not more or less of an authority than the rest of us beta plebs

[valkarianism]

500 battles in each class, huh?

 

Now I'm not someone to think that you have to have played a 1000 games before you're allowed to speak (seeing as I myself have only had time for like 250 battles) but it does kind of diminish your points if your opening statement is a blatant lie. Just saying. You're not more or less of an authority than the rest of us beta plebs

 

he meant 500 spread across all main ship types, minor error due to lack of language proficiency, which is why i only raised it as a passing comment. Don't need to hate on that.

 

I think, if a team has a cruiser that can escort a BB properly, a DD that scouts and defends the cruiser and BB, a BB that can properly chart a course and return and evade fire and a CV that provides cover effectively, then yes, those 4 ships in a tight formation will contribute to the battle greatly. BUT this is a massive multiplayer online game. and you're likely in RANDOM battles. I know these are issues that are dying to be fixed but it's not a problem with the game. It's a problem with the players. And you can't fix them. That's why divisions exist mate. Get a couple of friends and form a division that allows you to function as a highly functional squadron. That way you remove the random factor and can control the skill level of every other player with communication across the board. 

 

In short. Make friends, play with them. I think that cums this up sufficiently. This isn't going to change.

[Xevious_Red]

500 battles in each class, huh?

 

Now I'm not someone to think that you have to have played a 1000 games before you're allowed to speak (seeing as I myself have only had time for like 250 battles) but it does kind of diminish your points if your opening statement is a blatant lie. Just saying. You're not more or less of an authority than the rest of us beta plebs

 

To be fair, it's probably more a translation issue. I'm guessing english isn't his first language just by how things are phrased, so it probably was meant to be that he's played nearly 500 battles (true), and that he has experience in all the classes (true)

[Vulgarny]

Why CA or CV should provide cover to BB and in return got little to nothing xp and credit reward? As long as dmg will be only factor that count towards xp and credit rewards I will more or less not give a rats [edited]about BB.

[Vanhal]

Vanhal, please check out what your seckondary weapons are capable off ;) And please comon, eny fool can stay in a corner with a BB doing damage,,,even lots of it ( we are talking 70K pluss right ???)

I can see your comment to a fellow player giving you some not so kind words for crawling the line:  

he: you &/&%¤# camping at the back not helping your team.   you: ooh look i did xx damage, then i must be realy good at this...   

All this while your team desperate trying to kill off the last couple off battleships defending their base,,, and it ends with a loss.......

and you get another XX K damage when the 2 ships left on the enemy team comes to kill ya.

 

 

Of course, YOU didnt lose the battle alone, but IF you had helped you might have helped your TEAM win in say 20% to 50% of the time...

The only chance you have when border crawling is that the players left are screwing it up....badly..

 

You response have almost nothing to do with my post...

And you are being very rude, at the same moment accusing me of "saiyng not so nice things". 

Only valid point is about secondaries and that i can respond: What are they capable of? With 15-22% accuracy (most players have that amount), almost nothing. You can kill dd or finish some very damaged cruisers. On point blank only. If you don't die by torps.

[valkarianism]

Why CA or CV should provide cover to BB and in return got little to nothing xp and credit reward? As long as dmg will be only factor that count towards xp and credit rewards I will more or less not give a rats [edited]about BB.

 

tadaa.

 

And what he said is very true. As a CV I feel more incentive to protect my planes. Perhaps a defensive incentive that when planes kill planes in escort mode they earn double exp or some nonsense.

 

But yes absolutely true. I mean besides, well, having a bb to shoot other bbs in the best future as an incentive.

[Losqualo]

 

tadaa.

 

And what he said is very true. As a CV I feel more incentive to protect my planes. Perhaps a defensive incentive that when planes kill planes in escort mode they earn double exp or some nonsense.

 

But yes absolutely true. I mean besides, well, having a bb to shoot other bbs in the best future as an incentive.

 

For me it's the opposite. Maybe it's dependent on the type of player, but I regularly get more XP by playing an escort cruiser than by playing a battleship or a "free" cruiser.

 

Escort cruiser doesn't mean you have to stick to the side of a battleship until you sink, it means that you are responsible to defend the battleship against destroyers and bombers. So you are free to roam around to shot at targets of opportunity, but you have to have a good overview on the minimap so you are at all times ready to engage enemy destroyers or bombers coming for the battleships you should protect.

Right now most cruisers jump into action, shoot fast and die fast in cruiser vs cruiser battles. That's NOT the way to get many XP while playing a cruiser. 

[Vulgarny]

One question do you play with premium account?

[Losqualo]

One question do you play with premium account?

 

Me? Yes.