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rilship

Open Letter To War Gaming/WoWs - Double CV Games

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Hello Dear Team at WOWS,

My name is Martin, I am a 36 year old divorced father of one who really enjoys playing World of Warships. I started by playing the German line purely because Bismarck was a ship I have heard. As soon as I unlocked Gneisenau I knew something was terrible wrong, the ships struggled to hit anything past 10km , Bismarck was better due to useful secondaries and better armor/HP pool. Soon i decided to try cruiser gameplay and really liked the Japanese line going as far as Tier 10 Zao. My next step after watching WOWS contributor Flambass, Flamu and Notser was to try the destroyers. So far its the class I like most. I have 56% win rate in Shiratsuyu and 51% in T-61 with destruction ratio of 3.12. 

 

Few days ago i decided to finish your "Happy Anniversary" campaign which gave me the T-61, after that i decided to go for the Hall of Fame. As of now I am in the Top 5%, which as you can guess costed me quite few hours to achieve, granted I go to work full time, have to look at kid etc. It is a fact nobody forces me to "grind" and I am not going to complain about it BUT I have a question for your developers - Do you even play the game? Have you tried taking a Tier 6 dd and play against not 1 but 2 CVs. Do you think you will make it out of the spawn with half of your HP? DO you think you can reach the cap? What are you people thinking? Just today I have had at least 5 games with 2 CVs - this is a joke. You are clearly not listening to your clients, how are we dd players suppose to have a "fair" fight?  

 

Looking forward to hearing from you,
Sincerely Yours,
Soon to be ex user.

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1 minute ago, Profilus said:

Nice positive feedback, but german line has no Zao.

Post edited and feedback is not positive

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There isn't much you can do with the MM. Especially, if you are like two tiers down. Also, under unfavorable conditions you will quickly find that almost all ships are limited in some way. When it comes to higher tiers, I nowadays focus mostly on DD's, on mid tiers mostly on BB's, occasionally on DD's and cruisers as well. It helps if you know what kind of style is best suited for you. For me it is stealthy torpedo build DD's. There is very little I can do against CV's/planes when I get focused, especially if I get focused early on.

 

You accept these limitations and adapt. Focus on your strengths more for enjoyable game play. Focus slightly less on developing your weaknesses if you like the challenge, but do not focus on that side too much or it will quickly turn into a grind fest and seriously un-fun business.

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2 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

There isn't much you can do with the MM. Especially, if you are like two tiers down. Also, under unfavorable conditions you will quickly find that almost all ships are limited in some way. When it comes to higher tiers, I nowadays focus mostly on DD's, on mid tiers mostly on BB's, occasionally on DD's and cruisers as well. It helps if you know what kind of style is best suited for you. For me it is stealthy torpedo build DD's. There is very little I can do against CV's/planes when I get focused, especially if I get focused early on.

 

You accept these limitations and adapt. Focus on your strengths more for enjoyable game play. Focus slightly less on developing your weaknesses if you like the challenge, but do not focus on that side too much or it will quickly turn into a grind fest and seriously un-fun business.

"You accept these limitations and adapt" - There are no limitation, it is broken MM. The whole DD class suffers just because World of Warship Developers refuse to acknowledge an obvious mistake. There is no adaptation or style for countering 2 CVs. If for example Wows decides to equip DD with 75 knots 10km, 60 sec reload torpedoes , do you think Battleship players will just say "Well we need to adapt our style" Of course not, they will be obsolete.

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Still waiting for someone at Wargaming to tell me that the spreadsheet says dd are having fun.. 

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35 minutes ago, rilship said:

Do you think you will make it out of the spawn with half of your HP? DO you think you can reach the cap? What are you people thinking? Just today I have had at least 5 games with 2 CVs - this is a joke. You are clearly not listening to your clients, how are we dd players suppose to have a "fair" fight?  

I do it all the time. Even in french DD that do not have smoke.

Key is evading the planes to not get spotted. Watch the minimap for plane icons.

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1 minute ago, ColonelPete said:

I do it all the time. Even in french DD that do not have smoke.

Key is evading the planes to not get spotted. Watch the minimap for plane icons.

Are you kidding me mate? Watch the minimap, really? Not sure how fast your french dd goes, but at Tier 6 and amazing 30 knots I am not going to go away. You can not be anywhere useful and evade all the time. 2 Cv gets 2 caps and soon after that all normal routes to them. My team needs scouting so unless I hug some US CA or BB..Would like to see a game where you do it all the time. Granted last game against 2 CV we won I got 3 kills and 900k pot dmg, but this is just not fair, not even close. I can imagine developers playing this in a dd and saying - Yes, this feels balanced! Give me a break!

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11 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

I do it all the time. Even in french DD that do not have smoke.

Key is evading the planes to not get spotted. Watch the minimap for plane icons.

I looked at your stats and it seems you have not played too much dd at Tier 6, and what you played seems before CV *edit*, at tier 7 you almost never see more than one CV. Also you have total of 25 games or so in French dd combined for tier 6 plus 7"Even in french DD" ..

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Please don't refer anything to a terminal disease.
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18 minutes ago, rilship said:

Still waiting for someone at Wargaming to tell me that the spreadsheet says dd are having fun.. 

 

I am having fun in DD's. Not 100% of the time, some battles suck. Being top tier always helps. From tier 8 upwards, if I can get a good game I'm very often in top 3 in the results. I'm also having more fun if I make the best use of my ship in any given situation, even if it means playing counter-intuitively. Just now I was having a round in my Masachusetsu. Secondary build, mind you which for me translates as crappy. (I would advise against relying too much on secondaries with any ship, focus more on main guns, dispersion, turret rotation and accuracy). I was effectively playing it more like a gunboat. Semi-successfully (win, top tier, 3rd place), but having fun nonetheless.

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16 minutes ago, rilship said:

do you think Battleship players will just say "Well we need to adapt our style"

no, but that's why we generally call them BBabies - they cry at every opportunity... :Smile_trollface:

 

On a more constructive note, yes double CV matches are tough for mid-tier DDs, and yes if the enemy CVs are good they'll ruin your day every now and then. But here's the thing. The vast majority of CVs are decidedly NOT good, and in those cases you can very much still have a game on your hands. Won't be the same experience as without CVs obviously, but... well, as others have said before, that's where the learn, adapt and overcome part comes into play.

Plus which, DDs are easily your highest winrate class - so, in your own words, "give me a break" from the whole "unplayable BS, not fair" schtick - you're obviously well on your way to figuring it out already...

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Just now, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

 

I am having fun in DD's. Not 100% of the time, some battles suck. Being top tier always helps. From tier 8 upwards, if I can get a good game I'm very often in top 3 in the results. I'm also having more fun if I make the best use of my ship in any given situation, even if it means playing counter-intuitively. Just now I was having a round in my Masachusetsu. Secondary build, mind you which for me translates as crappy. (I would advise against relying too much on secondaries with any ship, focus more on main guns, dispersion, turret rotation and accuracy). I was effectively playing it more like a gunboat. Semi-successfully, but having fun nonetheless.

My main point is for tiers below 7! I have 294 battles in Shiratsuyu with 55% win rate. And one CV is manageable. 

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10 hours ago, rilship said:

Granted last game against 2 CV we won I got 3 kills and 900k pot dmg, but this is just not fair, not even close. I can imagine developers playing this in a dd and saying - Yes, this feels balanced! Give me a break!

And now remember what you did and what you did differently than in the other games.

Try to learn from it am improve.

 

Since the CV rework I had dozens of situations where planes flew by my DD at 3.x km and not spotting me. Evasion makes a difference. Take note which routes planes usually take and evade those.

10 hours ago, rilship said:

I looked at your stats and it seems you have not played too much dd at Tier 6, and what you played seems before CV *edit*, at tier 7 you almost never see more than one CV. Also you have total of 25 games or so in French dd combined for tier 6 plus 7"Even in french DD" ..

There are not my only DD.

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1 minute ago, Tyrendian89 said:

no, but that's why we generally call them BBabies - they cry at every opportunity... :Smile_trollface:

 

On a more constructive note, yes double CV matches are tough for mid-tier DDs, and yes if the enemy CVs are good they'll ruin your day every now and then. But here's the thing. The vast majority of CVs are decidedly NOT good, and in those cases you can very much still have a game on your hands. Won't be the same experience as without CVs obviously, but... well, as others have said before, that's where the learn, adapt and overcome part comes into play.

Plus which, DDs are easily your highest winrate class - so, in your own words, "give me a break" from the whole "unplayable BS, not fair" schtick - you're obviously well on your way to figuring it out already...

I thin you will agree that 1 good CV will ruin any dd game below tier 8/7. You also agree I guess that even if they suck the fact that I am perma spotted is enough of a cancer.

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1 minute ago, rilship said:

My main point is for tiers below 7! I have 294 battles in Shiratsuyu with 55% win rate. And one CV is manageable. 

 

I grant you, mid tiers are tougher, they are for especially in DD's. Which is why I mostly don't play mid tier DD's once I have gotten higher up except in the few remaining operations WG has kindly let us keep. Tier 7 DD's have a huge disadvantage unless they are top tier because of the concealment upgrade DD's and all ships higher up can equip. What you need to realize, the difficulties you have or not down to you, they are down to how the tech trees and meta is made up.

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4 minutes ago, Tyrendian89 said:

The vast majority of CVs are decidedly NOT good

 

This just happened:

GOVnqpG.png

 

Enemy CV lost 31 planes to a Shima and a Musashi.

*slow clap*

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1 minute ago, El2aZeR said:

 

This just happened:

GOVnqpG.png

 

Enemy CV lost 31 planes to a Shima and a Musashi.

*slow clap*

okay okay fair enough, if you insist and present me with such compelling evidence I will modify my statement...

...some of them are indeed very very good, they're just very good at being so bad it beggars belief...

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17 minutes ago, Tyrendian89 said:

 

Plus which, DDs are easily your highest winrate class - so, in your own words, "give me a break" from the whole "unplayable BS, not fair" schtick - you're obviously well on your way to figuring it out already...

My Tier 7 Cruiser Fiji has 215 battles with 54.4% Win rate same as the destroyer. 

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Tip if your AA range is longer than your detection range by air in the DD turn it off, and only turn it on if you get plane detected. You'll be surprised to see how many CV players fails to detect you.

@rilship

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CV games and no CV games are radically different. Doesn't matter if there's 2 or 1 CVs, as a DD you play opposite of the objective and wait for openings and opportunities.

32 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Key is evading the planes to not get spotted. Watch the minimap for plane icons.

This is literally it.

Stay back and hide. Play passively and think about the long run. Games are decided on who has the most ships at the end(mostly) and not by who captured the point first.

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1 minute ago, hgbn_dk said:

Tip if your AA range is longer than your detection range by air in the DD turn it off, and only turn it on if you get plane detected. You'll be surprised to see how many CV players fails to detect you.

@rilship

Thank you but its off by default, only On when I am detected.

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Just now, Srle_Vigilante said:

CV games and no CV games are radically different. Doesn't matter if there's 2 or 1 CVs, as a DD you play opposite of the objective and wait for openings and opportunities.

This is literally it.

Stay back and hide. Play passively and think about the long run. Games are decided on who has the most ships at the end(mostly) and not by who captured the point first.

Will consider it as a light trolling :)

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1 minute ago, Srle_Vigilante said:

Interpretation is subjective i'd say.

Mirko CroCop would agree

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54 minuti fa, ColonelPete ha scritto:

I do it all the time. Even in french DD that do not have smoke.

Key is evading the planes to not get spotted. Watch the minimap for plane icons.

Sorry mate but you always have the theorically super duper solution to every problem in this game. I'll tell you a secret: there is no theory when you face reality of matches. If Cv wants to focus you it will find you and kill you no matter whay you do. If cv player is a bit potato you could evade, use island, smoke, covers etc but the decision of sparing dd life is in his hands

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