Looking for help to improve vs CVs - dodging attacks

[FloatingBucket]

Hi Everyone,

 

So I still consider myself a fairly new player (around 500 games) despite rushing my way to T10 (I know, I know...). Anyway, I am looking to improve my destroyer play - specifically regarding dealing with CV attacks. I am aware that one should keep AA switched off unless already spotted and that smoke can help, but sometimes the enemy CV catches you out of position, or just makes a mission of hunting you down.

 

My question is: What is the best way to handle this? Which attacks are best dodged by turning into them? Which (if any) have elongated targeting reticles and are best dodged by turning broadside?

 

Obviously I can't completely avoid this sort of damage, but I assume through improving my play that I can learn to mitigate it somewhat, so any tips would be greatly appreciated.

 

For reference I mainly play IJN torpedo boats and am trying to learn Shimakaze (though having a very rough time of it - I picked it up pretty much just after the CV rework hit and admittedly got frustrated enough to take a break from the game).

 

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

Floating Bucket.

[Zuihou_Kai_Ni]

I would recommend you to play CV yourself. That way you will see yourself when you have the easiest time to hit a target and when you will have harder times hitting it. Replicate what leads to you having a hard time hitting a target. 

 

It's difficult to explain the maneuvers in text and may well tell you that you can't really dodge. It depends on the skill of the CV player striking you. You can easily dodge and mitigate damage by avg and above average CV captains with the right techniques. 

[BanzaiPiluso]

I start slower than a in a battle without CVs, then when I see what flank the CV is going to attack first I'll adjust my plan accordingly. If it is my flank then I stay close to a friendly cruiser, but still in front so to keep on doing my DD job.

Then have smoke ready, then try to turn into their course while pressing the engine boost key. if available. Sometimes they miss, most times they don't. Try to go back closer to your friendlies for AA, change course, change speed, use smoke, etc.

 

If the CV wants to make your life miserable, try to leave the area.

[Miessa3]

rule of thumb is turning in to torpedobombers and rocketplanes and showing sides to divebombers. Some divebombers have a circular droppattern though which makes it better to turn in again so he may miss next to your ship if you wiggle.

All this is while being unpredictable as possible and also not getting sunk by the enemy surface ships while you are spotted by the planes. no easy feat to say the least.

sometimes all you can do is keeping in mind that every minute the cv is busy sinking you, you give your cv time to do actual damage on the enemy team.

[ForlornSailor]

On top of that: play all other classes more. IMO - you cant learn how to counter play against CVs while keep on playing Shimakaze. You need experiance in Cruisers and BBs aswell to know, how they can help you. Also, that will teach you how you can help them. Because CVs are certainly a problem for DDs but tbh: especially on T10 there is so much more to DD play that you need to know to make your team successful.

[asalonen]

21 minutes ago, FloatingBucket said:

My question is: What is the best way to handle this? Which attacks are best dodged by turning into them? Which (if any) have elongated targeting reticles and are best dodged by turning broadside?

Rule of thumb: Don't turn into American bombers, Kaga's bombers, or Ark Royal's bombers. Their HE bombs hurt a DD a lot, and they have a reticle that's elliptical in the in the direction of the flight path. Turning in gives them a chance of a true jackpot. Unlike non-premium British CV's, Ark Royal has a pretty tight reticle.

 

Against rocket planes turning in is generally good since it robs aiming time. It's possible that you'll be out of the reticle before it even turns green, and in any case the dispersion will be worse since the reticle has less time to narrow down.

 

Against torpedoes turning in is good since you can quite easily hit a gap in the wall. Turning out can be a good option -- possibly turning out takes you to a better direction, considering the situation? American and British aerial torpedoes go 40 knots max with captain skills, so many DD's outrun them with ease.

[CptBarney]

Also keep in mind if you do meet a good, very good or above cv player and they want you dead its more a case of when rather than if and dodging can actually help (depending on the plane type) set them up for a decent or perfect second strike.

 

this is regardless of the ship your playing. But sadly there is no hard counters to cv’s atm (not sure if there ever will be) so just pray that the cv player is average, below, bad or worse as dodging and flak heavy aa can help mitigate or even ocassionsly stop a strike (player has to be exceptionally bad or not paying attention for that to happen more than once).

 

or pray thats its also a royal navy cv as they have low alpha strikes (except ark royal) compare to their peers.

[FloatingBucket]

15 minutes ago, Yoshanai said:

I would recommend you to play CV yourself.

I admit I was hoping for a way to skip over the obvious solution, but you are of course correct. Know thine enemy and all that.

 

12 minutes ago, Winged_Cat_Dormant said:

Then have smoke ready, then try to turn into their course while pressing the engine boost key. if available.

 

12 minutes ago, Miessa3 said:

rule of thumb is turning in to torpedobombers and rocketplanes and showing sides to divebombers. Some divebombers have a circular droppattern though which makes it better to turn in again so he may miss next to your ship if you wiggle.

 Thanks, both of you. I was hoping for these sorts of tips. I have had moxed results turning in and had been experimenting with turning out without much success and with throttle jockeying. Just trying to work out general principles (such as they exist at all).

 

 

13 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

On top of that: play all other classes more. IMO - you cant learn how to counter play against CVs while keep on playing Shimakaze. You need experiance in Cruisers and BBs aswell to know, how they can help you. Also, that will teach you how you can help them. Because CVs are certainly a problem for DDs but tbh: especially on T10 there is so much more to DD play that you need to know to make your team successful.

 Yes I definitely need to expand my horizons a bit. 

 

 

Thanks everyone for your responses - I appreciate it :)

[BanzaiPiluso]

Well yes, you get less damage on a DD from dive bombers and torps, but these attacks tend to happen as the battle progresses.

 

[invicta2012]

Using AA is essential once you're spotted and they have an attack path to you. It won't stop the first attack, it might save you from the second or third. 

 

I find that getting parallel to incoming rocket planes, and then turning across their path during their final attack run works well.

 

If TBs are on the bow, turn in. If on the stern, turn away. Reducing speed once torps are in the water is often effective to prevent yourself being bracketed. 

 

Bombers... Depends on the CV. This is the bit I normally forget. 

[WingedHussar_Adler]

47 minutes ago, FloatingBucket said:

Hi Everyone,

 

So I still consider myself a fairly new player (around 500 games) despite rushing my way to T10 (I know, I know...). Anyway, I am looking to improve my destroyer play - specifically regarding dealing with CV attacks. I am aware that one should keep AA switched off unless already spotted and that smoke can help, but sometimes the enemy CV catches you out of position, or just makes a mission of hunting you down.

 

My question is: What is the best way to handle this? Which attacks are best dodged by turning into them? Which (if any) have elongated targeting reticles and are best dodged by turning broadside?

 

Obviously I can't completely avoid this sort of damage, but I assume through improving my play that I can learn to mitigate it somewhat, so any tips would be greatly appreciated.

 

For reference I mainly play IJN torpedo boats and am trying to learn Shimakaze (though having a very rough time of it - I picked it up pretty much just after the CV rework hit and admittedly got frustrated enough to take a break from the game).

 

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

Floating Bucket.

If you are on open without place to hide, you will have hard time against CVs....but not all is lost :)

 

If you know what you are dooing, dodging his torps is not that hard, they are slow 40 knots most. Crosdrop is not an option if you do not mess up...so if you got hit by torpedo it is your fault

AP bombs - well ignore....HE....allways try to show him your broadside....do not let him hit you from back or front.....elipsed drop patern helps RNG be on your side.

ROCKETS - totaly differen of BOMBS, DO NOT SHOW HIM BROADSIDE...try to make him hit you front/back......rockets are hardest to avoid....if you are solo, he will get good position and strike you, but if yo uare in AAA cover he will not be able to manuvre much to get into good position...but in general...rockets will do dmg.

[El2aZeR]

10 minutes ago, WingedHussar_Adler said:

ROCKETS - totaly differen of BOMBS, DO NOT SHOW HIM BROADSIDE...try to make him hit you front/back......

 

Most RFs actually have vertical dispersion which is also superb for attacking broadside, as such they don't care about how you maneuver as they're getting a perfect shot regardless. It's only the US FFAR/HVAR rockets that only favor broadside attacks.

So if it is US, you can gamble on him not having TiTs and turn in/away (unless ofc you know that equipping TiTs is not possible for that CV). If it is anything else, nothing you can do but pray.

[__Helmut_Kohl__]

1 minute ago, El2aZeR said:

If it is anything else, nothing you can do but pray.

 

If he is just an average player, you can try this:

 

Have his planes approach you at 12 o'clock, while your ship is going towards 1 or 11 o'clock.

When he is at 1km distance, you turn aggressively to the other side.

 

It is surprising how often this actually works.

[El2aZeR]

3 minutes ago, __Helmut_Kohl__ said:

It is surprising how often this actually works.

 

I consider that as part of "pray", as in pray that the enemy CV is bad. 

[Pikkozoikum]

1 hour ago, FloatingBucket said:

Hi Everyone,

 

So I still consider myself a fairly new player (around 500 games) despite rushing my way to T10 (I know, I know...). Anyway, I am looking to improve my destroyer play - specifically regarding dealing with CV attacks. I am aware that one should keep AA switched off unless already spotted and that smoke can help, but sometimes the enemy CV catches you out of position, or just makes a mission of hunting you down.

 

My question is: What is the best way to handle this? Which attacks are best dodged by turning into them? Which (if any) have elongated targeting reticles and are best dodged by turning broadside?

 

Obviously I can't completely avoid this sort of damage, but I assume through improving my play that I can learn to mitigate it somewhat, so any tips would be greatly appreciated.

 

For reference I mainly play IJN torpedo boats and am trying to learn Shimakaze (though having a very rough time of it - I picked it up pretty much just after the CV rework hit and admittedly got frustrated enough to take a break from the game).

 

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

Floating Bucket.

You should know, how a CV attacks, that makes avoiding damage easier. If he drops bombs, you show broadside, because the drop pattern is mostly vertical ellipse. If the drops Torpedos, better align with them, also bettwe move towards the torps, instead of away, if possible, otherwise torps will take ages to pass you. Against rockets it'S tough, but I assume the best way is to move towards the rocket planes, because they have to hit far in front of the squad, that doesn't give much time to aim with them, if the target has good concealment.

 

If CV goes fully at you, maybe bait his fighter into cruiser AA, be prepared to plop a smoke (don't move full speed all the time). Patient is important imo

[Kenjiro_]

1 hour ago, Winged_Cat_Dormant said:

If the CV wants to make your life miserable, try to leave the area

 

The problem is, if the CV wants to make your life miserable, he'll do it anyway.  This is the main reason behind the cv hate. They can decide to make you miserable and there is nothing you can do about it... 

[asalonen]

43 minutes ago, Kenjiro_ said:

The problem is, if the CV wants to make your life miserable, he'll do it anyway.  This is the main reason behind the cv hate. They can decide to make you miserable and there is nothing you can do about it... 

Making life miserable for a soloing DD is an efficient way to win. The counterplay is not being alone out in the open, just like when there's a radar around.

 

The tricky bit is that a significant part of CV players ignore DD's since they are not easy targets for damage. The best clue is matchmaking monitor. If the CV player is below average I would just ignore the CV when deciding my play in a DD.

[Jethro_Grey]

2 hours ago, FloatingBucket said:

Hi Everyone,

 

So I still consider myself a fairly new player (around 500 games) despite rushing my way to T10 (I know, I know...). Anyway, I am looking to improve my destroyer play - specifically regarding dealing with CV attacks. I am aware that one should keep AA switched off unless already spotted and that smoke can help, but sometimes the enemy CV catches you out of position, or just makes a mission of hunting you down.

 

My question is: What is the best way to handle this? Which attacks are best dodged by turning into them? Which (if any) have elongated targeting reticles and are best dodged by turning broadside?

 

Obviously I can't completely avoid this sort of damage, but I assume through improving my play that I can learn to mitigate it somewhat, so any tips would be greatly appreciated.

 

For reference I mainly play IJN torpedo boats and am trying to learn Shimakaze (though having a very rough time of it - I picked it up pretty much just after the CV rework hit and admittedly got frustrated enough to take a break from the game).

 

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

Floating Bucket.

 

Here's what i do, and it works 95% of the time, which is a pretty high rate of success imo.

 

Select a DD of your choice and hit the battle button.

If you see a CV in the queue, hammer the ESC key, if you're fast enough, you'll end up back in port.

Try again a few seconds later, and spam the ESC key if there are still CVs in the queue. 

 

Switch to cruisers and a enjoy seeing DDs get blapped first and hope, the CV goes for BBs next. 

 

If you managed to accomplish that, congratulations, you successfully dodged CVs!*

 

 

 

*couldn't resist... 

[BanzaiPiluso]

1 hour ago, Kenjiro_ said:

 

The problem is, if the CV wants to make your life miserable, he'll do it anyway.  This is the main reason behind the cv hate. They can decide to make you miserable and there is nothing you can do about it... 

True, but at least it will take him a few more seconds to find you again!

[lossi_2018]

3 hours ago, Yoshanai said:

I would recommend you to play CV yourself.

dont do dis

 

 

PS: seriously though this is best advise (all suggestions were useful). But a good cv player will come after you again if your team don't react. I usually stay on a dd unless something in the map happens I don't like so I have to disengage. Staying near AA cruisers also helps as no one wants to lose planes early. All this stuff is for early game. Unfortunately you will need a bit of luck against CVs not only skill.

 

[MadBadDave]

It’s already been very wisely mentioned;  try cv’s for yourself.

 

thats what I did and if/when you do you’ll realise it’s futile trying to evade cv’s, if the cv driver is skilled there is zero you can do, i killed 4 ships this morning with ease, and they were wasd’ing.

 

if you should evade and survive an attack the next one will be on you in 30 seconds which will cause greater damage because your AA would have been diminished by the previous attack.