PSA: AA Sector reinforcement mechanic

[El2aZeR]

In my last Alaska match (yes, I do play surface ships from time to time, stop gaping at me) I noticed that normally my long range AA would do 108 damage per tick, yet when I activated the sector reinforcement it would start doing 54 damage but at a faster rate.

Intrigued by this I did some basic training room tests which have come to the following conclusion:

The sector reinforcement mechanic does not increase the overall damage dealt, it only increases the tickrate but in the end applies the same amount of damage regardless. Unless you're a BB.

 

So lets say you have AA that has a damage value of 4 which ticks every second. Using sector reinforcement makes this aura tick every half a second for a damage of 2. The overall damage doesn't change, the same damage just gets applied faster. This can still be considered a buff but a minor one, it is nowhere near as useful as the promised 35-50% increase in DPS would be.

 

Also note that this applies universally. Cruisers are supposed to get a 150% improvement while everyone else gets 135%, yet this doesn't seem to be the case. In reality everyone seems to get a 50% increase in tickrate, from one second to half a second.

Well, everyone except battleships, they actually seem to get the advertised DPS buff because why not I suppose?

 

Clemson:

    

 

Without anything Clemson long range deals 4 damage per second. Using sector reduces damage to 2 but increases tickrate to half a second. If you use the sector in the wrong direction however sector reinforcement works as intended and reduces damage dealt to 3 every second.

(Note that Clemson is the only ship I tested what happens when you use sector reinforcement in the wrong direction on.)

 

Caledon:

 

  

 

Same story, 48 every second without sector reinforcement, 24 every half a second with sector reinforcement.

 

Hosho:

 

  

 

Hosho actually seems to get shafted by 1 DPS for whatever reason.

I know, completely outrageous. WG pls buff Hosho immediately.

 

Kawachi:

 

  

 

9 damage every second, 6 damage every half a second for a total DPS of 12. A ~30% increase precisely as advertised.

 

The following conclusions are thus possible:

- this is working as intended. Praised be the glorious BB masterrace.

- my stopwatch skills are terrible. Kinda unlikely I would hope but I'm not gonna rule out the possibility

- this is a visual bug, the DPS increase actually works as intended for everyone but the numbers are wrong or sth

- this is a general bug and needs to be fixed

 

Do note that if this is actually working as intended then the MAA skill is more useful than previously thought of on cruisers and DDs since sector reinforcement doesn't actually buff DPS anyway.

 

Also remember when WG said that RTS AA was convoluted and difficult to understand?

Yeah...

Praised be the rework.

 

EDIT: Additional testing data below. It is likely a visual bug.

[Allied_Winter]

So one reason more to not invest in any AA skills whatsoever?

 

Anyway: Thanks for testing. Let's see what WG comes up with.

[Tyrendian89]

my money would be on visual/interface bug to be honest, just based on how crap the interface in its entirety is, especially when it has to deal with multiple things happening quickly in a live server environment (hello two overpens for 10k damage and the like...). Plus, those damage number popups never seemed to even remotely coincide with the "Plane Damage Counter" in the top right anyway... might be interesting to do the same sort of testing but pay attention to what happens on that counter?

[Fatal_Ramses]

8 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Also remember when WG said that RTS AA was convoluted and difficult to understand?

All I remember of RTS times was that back then I had dedicated AA-captains on many ships on many nations.

Even with "fewer" CVs I would still gamble with AA-captains cause it was fun and rewarding when a CV game hit you.

Now my poor AA-captains are sitting in port 19/19 getting alcholism, while their colleagues at Survial/Tank department are over worked.

 

Back then AA-skills mattered now they are just a roll of dice with a hint of surprise mechanics in it.

[El2aZeR]

28 minutes ago, Tyrendian89 said:

might be interesting to do the same sort of testing but pay attention to what happens on that counter?

 

Damage counter does rise faster, however that's because you're dealing damage to two squads as you're attacking both active and bailing aircraft.

As soon as the bailing aircraft disappear the counter seems to rise at "normal" speeds again.

 

EDIT:

Some basic testing reveals Clemson deals about 103-112 damage regardless of sector reinforcement on a first approach by Hermes RFs.

[22cm]

I dont know why they dont admit they screwed up the CV rework, even after 10 months.

[Panocek]

Umm, weren't AA ticks supposed to be unified at what was it, 2/7 of a second?

 

Maybe comparing damage on the counter would give an answer, though that would require flak-less ships to be tested.

[El2aZeR]

4 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Maybe comparing damage on the counter would give an answer, though that would require flak-less ships to be tested.

 

Clemson on Hermes RFs first approach: 103 damage

Clemson on Hermes RFs first approach with SR: 112 damage (probably more due to my timing with shutting off the AA or maybe the bot aimed differently than SR actually doing sth)

Spoiler

 

On a sidenote, DFAA DPS increase actually works as intended, turning Yubari 160 close range DPS to 240 close range DPS.

[Uglesett]

34 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

EDIT:

Some basic testing reveals Clemson deals about 103-112 damage regardless of sector reinforcement on a first approach by Hermes RFs.

Working as intended, Comrade. Clemson is not battleship, da?

[Aragathor]

I'm not even mad, at this point I'm just disappointed by the amount of bugs and failures the AA rework from 0.8.7 has. It's like every time they change something, they go about it halfcocked.

 

@MrConway@Crysantos

Can you please check if this is an interface bug or if the description of the AA sector is really wrong and it doesn't increase damage?

 

[Panocek]

I've come up with other way of checking whether Sector works... sort of

 

-immobile flak-less target (Kleber in my case) against IJN carrier (Shokek in my case)

-on first run, no sector used whatsoever against dive bombers

-restart the game, start sector at 4km (just outside of 3.8km AA range of Kleber) to not hit planes with initial blast

-"timer stop" on planes dropping their payload - if you pay attention to dmg counter, it stops for about a second as planes enter immunity window the moment they release payload, but returning wing didn't detached yet

 

 

Numbers as follow:

2412*1.35=3256.2, so almost there?

 

If anything, dmg numbers should be lower, as sector is supposed to gradually increase dps, not give flat +35% right out of the bat 

 

[El2aZeR]

10 minutes ago, Panocek said:

2412*1.35=3256.2, so almost there?

 

I'm getting really weird results with Clemson. There seems to be no difference whatsoever in using SR vs not using SR. In fact sometimes not using SR yields more damage for whatever reason. Perhaps her DPS is simply too weak for SR to make any difference.

Caledon however does deal more damage at roughly the rate it is supposed to according to the damage counter, so that's a visual bug for sure.

Spoiler

 

10 minutes ago, Panocek said:

If anything, dmg numbers should be lower, as sector is supposed to gradually increase dps, not give flat +35% right out of the bat 

 

Indeed.

So we went from "SR possibly does nothing" to "SR possibly does too much".

This is getting weird. 

[lovelacebeer]

Very interesting results thank you for posting this, unfortunately goes to show investing in AA is a waste of time

[CptBarney]

So why do battleships get better AA than the more aa dedicated ships?

 

do bb’s have a seperate formula?

 

halp.

[DFens_666]

1 minute ago, CptBarney said:

So why do battleships get better AA than the more aa dedicated ships?

 

Cant have BBabies go cry because they get attacked too much.

Thats why most of them can mount fighters so that bad bad CVs will rather strike Cruisers and DDs.

[Aixin]

Well.... Perhaps Cuz they have more aa mounts 😂 

[CptBarney]

Just now, DFens_666 said:

 

Cant have BBabies go cry because they get attacked too much.

Thats why most of them can mount fighters so that bad bad CVs will rather strike Cruisers and DDs.

As a bb main i would rather my cruisers have better aa so that they can do more than get dev striked 24/7.

 

But yeah striking cruisers and dd’s isnt as satisfying lol.

 

Nice to know wargaming refuses to acknowledge the reeeeeeeework as a failure.

 

I bet subs will be a disaster. Bb’s getting over 50% torp reduction minimum?

[Aixin]

Vor 2 Minuten, DFens_666 sagte:

 

Cant have BBabies go cry because they get attacked too much.

Thats why most of them can mount fighters so that bad bad CVs will rather strike Cruisers and DDs.

Tbh it should be the exact opposite of that.... 

[Bellegar]

1 minute ago, Karotte_marksman said:

Tbh it should be the exact opposite of that.... 

With the risk of sounding like a dinosaur...

It once was. And it worked fine.

Then came the influx of idiots into the game, and BBs insisted on going alone. So naturally they got picked off by CVs, thus the BBs came crying on the forums, after which WG started the BB buff race to the top.

 

And that is the sad story of BBalance

 

Spoiler

And this is even coming from a heavy BB main!

 

[DFens_666]

7 minutes ago, Karotte_marksman said:

Tbh it should be the exact opposite of that.... 

 

Ofc it should. They even wrote so in their own description about CVs. Just hover over the CV symbol when you are in queue for battle, it says something about fighting capital ships or something.

 

Not to mention, that BBs suffer the least from CV attacks. Chunking DDs with rockets? They dont even have a heal. Same for Cruisers till T9, but it still hurts. AP bombs do hurt BBs, but they hurt Cruisers even more due to having less HP.

[Admiral_H_Nelson]

2 hours ago, Aragathor said:

I'm not even mad, at this point I'm just disappointed by the amount of bugs and failures the AA rework from 0.8.7 has. It's like every time they change something, they go about it halfcocked. 

Don't worry, I am annoyed enough by the AA Rework to be mad on your behalf

and for all others posting on this thread,

and all others posting on this forum,

and everyone playing the game now and forever, amen.

[HMS_Kilinowski]

@El2aZeR

I did some similar testing now to verify your results. I took a T5 Jianwei with a vanilla captain, which also only has contiuous damage AA, against a Hosho. The problem with testing is, that the AA sector-re-enforcement duration is rather short, so even minimal changes in the tesing environment will change total damage registered. Planes maybe enter some immunity zone or already be on other side of the ship otherwise.

The best I could come up with was running almost straight away at full speed from the incoming rocket plane squadron. Thus you ensure you apply the whole duration of the AA-buff on a squadron still on approach. Also, as @Panocekdid, I enabled the buff at 2.7 km, so the initial burst would not be taking into account.

 

My Jianwei did 292 plane damage without sector-re-enforcement and 359 with it. That is equivalent to a 23% buff.

 

So I would conclude:

1. The re-enforcement works.

2. It does not apply a flat increase of 35%, as was hypothesized

3. The 23% buff is likely equal to a gradual increase of AA damage. Since the sector was enabled maybe a second too early to avoid the intial burst, the value is slightly biased and teh buff is in reality lower.

4. Everything seems as advertised, only the visuals are broken.

[HaachamaShipping]

4 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Clemson on Hermes RFs first approach: 103 damage

Clemson on Hermes RFs first approach with SR: 112 damage (probably more due to my timing with shutting off the AA or maybe the bot aimed differently than SR actually doing sth)

  Reveal hidden contents

 

On a sidenote, DFAA DPS increase actually works as intended, turning Yubari 160 close range DPS to 240 close range DPS.

Don't you also deal an initial damage on the planes based in squad hp?

[CptBarney]

10 minutes ago, Cagliostro_chan said:

Don't you also deal an initial damage on the planes based in squad hp?

Probs that and if the planes are attacking or not.

[Sehales]

I will pass it on and get it checked.