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Killroy67

buy a container hoping you get what you want is that gambling?

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Now when i buy a container(s) and i do this for a reason because i want something that i dont have in my collection and hope to get it . Now here comes something that might become a problem for playing the game in The Netherlands.

I buy the container(s) to get something that i want so its a GAMBLE in what container the object will be our not at all. According to Dutch law this might been seen as gambling witch is not legal.

 

If Dutch law is going to call this gambling what is WG going to do about it?

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the same as they've already done in Belgium, one presumes... just make all purchasable containers unavailable there

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Buying a container with the risk of either getting something or getting nothing is gambling in my opinion. As long as the content of the loot crate is always at least  equal to cost of the crate then thats a different story. I guess value is open to debate. But people always want the big shiny things when they buy loot crates.

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In most countries it does not fit the legal definition of gambling,

which is why many* national gambling commissions have put together reports recommending a change to make the definition less narrow so they are included.
*among them the UK, Germany, France, the Netherlands ect. (iirc)

 

This industry wide trend towards (imo) gambling in all but name should be curbed sooner rather than later and it looks like it will at some point.

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Lootboxes will still be legal, it's just that they will be 18+ content - as they should be, the same as going to the bookies to put money on a horse.

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42 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

Lootboxes will still be legal, it's just that they will be 18+ content - as they should be, the same as going to the bookies to put money on a horse.

Yup. Heard stories in NA kids stealing parents credit cards and buying 250 santa crates. Crazy. 

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2 hours ago, Killroy67 said:

If Dutch law is going to call this gambling what is WG going to do about it?

 

Block dutch IPs from buying any containers that the law defines.

 

52 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

Lootboxes will still be legal, it's just that they will be 18+ content

 

People from Belgium cant buy any of those boxes in wows since the law is in place. No matter how old you are.

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4 hours ago, ForlornSailor said:

People from Belgium cant buy any of those boxes in wows since the law is in place. No matter how old you are.

Yep, and WG only messed this up once (and fixed it again after less than 24 hrs).

And no, it's not your typical lottery ticket: with those you can at least know your odds. These containers don't offer you that (as WG refuses to share them, so you don't know what they've coded).

Therefore: I'm glad Belgium did something good for a change.

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No debate, it's gambling. It takes a very particular mindset to see them as anything else.

 

The gaming business has made a massive amount from monetising loot boxes, hopefully a stop will be put to that.

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There is a similar thread already talking about this, why opening a new one? I believe you both talking about the same reasons ^_^; @Killroy67, I am apologies for "jumping in" like that but I just wanted to inform you about the already existence thread (we don't want to trouble mods with similar threads) ^_^

 

 

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I'd say it worse than gambling, at least if you only want one specific drop, because there's no oversight for the drop chances. You have no idea what the odds are, they're whatever WG wants them to be and they account to no one. If you're really okay with whatever drop you might get, then it's more benign than gambling.

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9 hours ago, atlasapl said:

I guess value is open to debate.

Actually it is not open to debate. Owner of container, in this case WG is stating what the minimum value is of each container type.

If you consider that they are wrong, you just not buy crates.

 

As always, stop buying crates or stop complaining, choice is yours.

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Yes its gambling, since your risking your money for a small chance to recieve an item you want but most likely wont get.

 

But gambling doesn't have to just be monetary only.

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1 minute ago, MoveZig said:

I'd say it worse than gambling, at least if you only want one specific drop, because there's no oversight for the drop chances. You have no idea what the odds are, they're whatever WG wants them to be and they account to no one. If you're really okay with whatever drop you might get, then it's more benign than gambling.

That part right there is the scariest thing of the whole rotten business.
Nobody knows what the chances are, or even if the chance is not rigged somehow to incentivise further purchases. (see "matchmaking patent" for a similar mechanic)

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43 minutes ago, Snautzi said:

I dont think so.  A scam would mean there was the intent to deceive. 

Is this irony? WG is not exactly known for their clarity of intent  either.

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1 minute ago, Blixies said:

Is this irony? WG is not exactly known for their clarity of intent  either.

Well their intent is to make a profit. And the way they go about it is through these lootboxes apparently. I'm not saying I agree or like these practices but calling it a scam is a bit of a stretch dont you think so? 

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37 minutes ago, Snautzi said:

I dont think so.  A scam would mean there was the intent to deceive. 

Maybe you are right, I don't really know a lot about this. Just... well from what I have read around: 

We are selling this item you want cheap! But to get it you need to pay for those other things you don't want first.  And don't worry, you are guaranteed to get what you wanted in the first place! Just try your "luck" enough times, without knowing the chance for the thing you want! And eventually, after paying enough times, for all the things you don't want, you will get what you wanted 100% guaranteed! No duplicates!

 

Just from a layman point of view, looks like a scam...

 

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10 minutes ago, Snautzi said:

Well their intent is to make a profit. And the way they go about it is through these lootboxes apparently. I'm not saying I agree or like these practices but calling it a scam is a bit of a stretch dont you think so? 

I did not say the lootboxes themsleves are a scam, I said I do not trust WG not to rig the boxes to incentivise future purchases. 
Every company goes for profits, as you say. But putting WG in the same bucket as for example GGG (Path of Exile developer) is not very precise, to say the least.

Let me give you an actual example, I would consider borderline scam-like:
Not long after the CV rework the WG announced the balancing is finalized for all the premium CVs and they are ready to be sold.
We got plethora of massive changes to CVs as a whole and many tweaks to individual premium CVs as well very shortly after this.

Everyone knew the CVs are from being finalised, and WG confirmed this by their future actions.
Balancing is needed and all, I realise. But announcing loudly that your premium goods are not to be changed and then changing them massively in a matter of weeks sounds pretty damn scammy to me.
 

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Vor 12 Minuten, Snautzi sagte:

Well their intent is to make a profit. And the way they go about it is through these lootboxes apparently. I'm not saying I agree or like these practices but calling it a scam is a bit of a stretch dont you think so? 

I think it's a little naive to think that profit-oriented companies play fair. It's about profit not being nice or fair. I'm 40 now and i've been experiencing the joys of capitalism and growing neoliberalism for 30 years. I never experienced a worldwide acting company which is succesful while acting fair and by ethical standards.

Coming back to WG. Since their introduction, the containers have fulfilled all the characteristics of a fraudulent model. To proof it's not Wg would need to disclose all informations on possible droprates and introduce protection mechanisms.

But this is not in their interest since they want to tweak here and there to get the most (profit) out of it. And sadly the most players/customers have accepted it the way it is. And since the ouput is partly extremely uneven i would call it scam too.

Before well known forumites use "everyone has the same chances" here, let me say this is not the point.

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To be clear. There are games that can't be downloaded in Belgium because of that gambling law. A few, if not all, games of Nintendo for smartphones  you can't get in Belgium.

But I'm pretty sure other Western countries will follow. Because form time to time there will be articles in the newspaper about a child that gets the creditcard of their parent and will spend over a €1000 or €2000 just to get that 1 item. And than that cute little kid will be in photo on the front-page with that huge bill.

 

And also the greed of those gaming compagnies will know no bounds.It gonna get much worse.

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